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2015/09/22 14:42:37
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Hive Tyrant (230pts) [Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Wings]
+ Troops (15pts) +
Mucolid Spore Cluster (15pts) [Mucolid Spore]
+ Heavy Support (140pts) +
Mawloc (140pts)
A couple of questions.
1. Why no malanthrope? Is it because FW is not allowed?
2. Why the single lictor? Is it for Linebreaker purposes? Because a single lictor by itself isn't going to do much. You might want to consider 2x1 venomthropes instead.
Forge World is not allowed. Just what's in the codex or supplements. Also the other army's are allowed only their codex as well. No allies allowed. A cad must be taken and up to 3 detachment with one having to be cad. I hope that clear. I been up way to long today.
The single lector is to play to one of the missions and also to have a Line Breaker unit that I can hide real easy. I could do rippers but they sometime scatter. Also in one of the missions you gain primary points for each FoC you kill off. I wanted to have more then just the Venomthrope in the list. The lictor allows me to force my adversary to go out of his way to kill it. Giving me control on where he goes. Kind of a board control-ish thing.
This tournament has been going on for 5 years in the local area. It unique format is that you never fight the same army twice in the tournament. Only one army for each codex. Last year was 16 armies. 16 Different races no repeats.This year they are shooting for two full 16 brackets. With next year becoming a two day event. I won last year with Tyranids trying to do a repeat this year.
In that case, your list is fine.
Good luck, and hope you take it for the Hive Mind once again.
Iechine wrote: 3 Hive guard means only 3 shots hit, its just not worth it. Those points get you so much further with other options.
Which sucks, cause I think they look cool. They are great models.
Well for me that "3 hits" enough to have 2+ to glance a AV11 vehicle. If its a transport I have a good target for my hive tryants instead of using my most versatile unit for a rhino/Transpo.
Decurion is also a thing in our local community, I tried devil gaunts 100+ pts but i manage to kill 2 out of 15, and shoot my hive tyrant 250+pts to decurion warriors to fend them off from that objective but sadly i killed only 3 out of 10, my 2 HG 1 already dead 100 pts killed also 3 due to AP4 and double STR vs T value they only have 5+.
Also use hive guards from ravenwing bikers that has rerollable 2+ cover saves with FnP, so they use normal power armor 3+ with FnP.
I also instakill some JSJ crisis suits due to ignore LOS and some path finders hinding in the ruins.
Yes, they misses and it sucks like every other typical tyranid BS3 units and any other BS3 in the units the game.
I'm just stating my experience from a typical math hammer. So for me they still viable and plays a very important role in my ground force besides from may 3 flyrants and a crone.
We're just a little spoiled by them last edition. The Hive Guard isn't as great as he used to be, but he is still a serviceable unit.
The main problem is that the flyrant has surpassed him as the best AT in the codex as well as the best everyman unit in the book as well. Not only is the flyrant better in AT duties, but he is better in every other facet as well whereas the hive guard is more of a niche unit. That is the main reason why you don't see hive guards around as much anymore.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/22 14:50:18
Iechine wrote: I dont understand how you factor them as ' the unit with the highest reliability rate'.
AV12 has never been an issue, nor have skimmers, thats what electroshock grubs/devourers are for. Meanwhile, 1 Hive guard firing has only a 25% chance of glancing AV12, 3 Hive guard giving you 1.5 glances/pens. Really not impressive at all for a 165pt unit vs a Wave Serpent.
I want them to be good, they are simply mediocre at what they do and I'd rather fill those points with something more effective.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Take a Crone instead, its cheaper, far more mobile, harder to kill, its Vector strike will have a 50% chance of an AP2 glance or pen, then its flamer can have a 50% chance of getting through (the likely) rear armor 10, and both ignore cover.
Because reliability does not equal effectiveness. A mawloc is more effective. It also needs a roll to arrive and scatters quite a lot, which makes it less reliable. See the difference? Most units in the Tyranid codex might or might not do their thing. A Lictor might do its thing or it might die from a single krak missile. A zoanthrope might do its thing and blast things with lance though it is really really situational and there are so many dice rolls involved that it is not reliable. Same goes for a lot of different things in the army. The Hive guards to not belong there. Reason is that you will always know what to expect from hive guards. This is what reliability means. I never said they are good, in fact I specifically mentioned that 2 attacks at Bs 3 is nothing to write home about. But a Hive guard IS reliable. The way a flyrant is, the way a malanthrope is and the way a Tervigon isn't. A hive guard is reliable. It's as simple as that. Can't really get it more clear.
I've got you. Usually people use 'reliable' to mean a good thing, I didnt realize you meant the Hive Guard would reliably suck by comparison to other more effective units.
My flyrants busy chasing down eldar bikers and I will not waste 200++ pts to glace 1HP on a wave serpent, My crone is waiting from the wave serpents juicy inaards and anti flyers, Lictors at rear armor of wave serpents? Seriously? Eldar players usually face their butts at the edge of the board, and they have jink.I dont think its a good idea using a Assault 3, Str 6 rending at BS3 to a model that can jink and you are giving 50 points for nothing and a VP if they draw a card which gain VP if killed a unit. I dont know the math but it think its worst than the 165 HG.
Anyways nevermind the hive guard topic, i just find it very useful and share it to you guys to try, but if you think it sucks for you, there is nothing i can do.
JY2 notice me and that's enough arguing.
Lurker Mode again.
1750
2015/09/23 13:39:07
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
I never liked the idea of "reliability" when it comes to Tyranid models. I always get the feeling that nothing is truly reliable. The only thing that comes close in my eyes are the TL Devourers and the Electrogrubs on Flyrants. The psychic powers and the grounding checks that you roll for always make me nervous. We don't have a Fateweaver that allows us to reroll those all important late game grounding checks, etc.
That being said, and continuing on the reliable topic, Tervigon spawn rates, BS3 Haywire missiles on Crones, BS3 Hiveguard, Zoanthropes Warp Blast's (that need to cast properly, not get denied, hit on 3s, rolls to pen, and then get thru the cover saves), smash attacks on MCs, to name a few, all make me nervous.
Reliability just seems like a super vague term when it comes to a die game that, in all honesty, all comes down to dice. You can increase the outcome of your game by playing correctly, adding multiple threats, and forcing redundancy.
I have to agree with Tryke that Hive Guard do provide something to the battlefield that no other Nid can and I like them for that reason. I'd much rather have 5 Flyrants, but I don't think a brood of 3 is bad at all.
I've been practicing for Da Boyz the last couple weeks, which is a Highlander format this year, and I have to say that my Hiveguard have been doing their job from time to time. Yes, sometimes they fumble, but when they hit and pen, it's nice to not allow cover; S8 isn't too shabby with a 24" range and no LOS required. If I wasn't basically forced to take Hiveguard in this format type, I probably wouldn't have used them in this edition of the codex, but I'm glad I did. I might even start using them again in my competitive lists (non-Highlander).
The reason I didn't use them as much in our most recent codex is they went up 5 pts each and they went from BS4 to BS3. I don't remember who mentioned it, but someone said they got a point reduction, but I believe they were 50pts each, and now with the Impaler Cannon they are 55 pts AND they lost a BS point. Ouch. Didn't see that coming when the codex dropped.
TL;DR - Hiveguards are a very unique unit in our codex. Try them a few times. When they whiff, don't play them down with a "This is why I don't use them". All nid models have their moments of failing. Keep using them and when they do work, they will make back their 165 points. T6 isn't too shabby either for Infantry.
2015/09/23 14:31:00
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
You know what would be funny? Hive guards in a bastion/bunker. It basically becomes a 24" denial zone for any non-heavy tanks that try to come within. Also great against drop pod-spam a la Battle Company so that you don't have to waste your flyrants trying to kill empty pods.
jy2 wrote: You know what would be funny? Hive guards in a bastion/bunker. It basically becomes a 24" denial zone for any non-heavy tanks that try to come within. Also great against drop pod-spam a la Battle Company so that you don't have to waste your flyrants trying to kill empty pods.
If they could shoot 36" and we had the old "Old Adversary" rule, I could see a HVC Tyrant and 3 full units of Hive Guards on a skyshield landing platform. If...
14000
15000
4000
2015/09/23 14:56:55
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
tryke wrote: My flyrants busy chasing down eldar bikers and I will not waste 200++ pts to glace 1HP on a wave serpent, My crone is waiting from the wave serpents juicy inaards and anti flyers, Lictors at rear armor of wave serpents? Seriously? Eldar players usually face their butts at the edge of the board, and they have jink.I dont think its a good idea using a Assault 3, Str 6 rending at BS3 to a model that can jink and you are giving 50 points for nothing and a VP if they draw a card which gain VP if killed a unit. I dont know the math but it think its worst than the 165 HG.
Anyways nevermind the hive guard topic, i just find it very useful and share it to you guys to try, but if you think it sucks for you, there is nothing i can do.
JY2 notice me and that's enough arguing.
Lurker Mode again.
Only counter I will give you about the Lictor is that happens to be exactly how #Lictorshame demolished wave serpents Sticking Lictors behind them and assaulting them.
2015/09/23 16:50:09
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
tryke wrote: My flyrants busy chasing down eldar bikers and I will not waste 200++ pts to glace 1HP on a wave serpent, My crone is waiting from the wave serpents juicy inaards and anti flyers, Lictors at rear armor of wave serpents? Seriously? Eldar players usually face their butts at the edge of the board, and they have jink.I dont think its a good idea using a Assault 3, Str 6 rending at BS3 to a model that can jink and you are giving 50 points for nothing and a VP if they draw a card which gain VP if killed a unit. I dont know the math but it think its worst than the 165 HG.
Anyways nevermind the hive guard topic, i just find it very useful and share it to you guys to try, but if you think it sucks for you, there is nothing i can do.
JY2 notice me and that's enough arguing.
Lurker Mode again.
Lictors are a great anti tank unit for their points, and more so, a very strong denial unit, especially when supported by/ supporting mawloc(s). Also, making a skimmer jink can be very useful, I'd rather have it shooting at BS1 than 3 or 4, and deepstriking lictors are great for this via no scatter.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/09/23 16:51:07
2015/09/23 17:04:15
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Lictor shooting isn't actually good. At most, if they're lucky, they might immobilize a wave serpent back then or finish off a serpent that was already damaged. You just can't rely on their shooting to do very much.
What is dangerous, however, is their assault the following turn. If the Eldar player ignores him (due to mawlocs, dakkafexes and flyants in the vicinity), then he can do surprising damage to a wave serpent or a unit of troops who disembark from it. Of course the key to the lictor survivability is threat overload. Put other, more dangerous units nearby and the lictor will be seen as a low priority target and in many cases, ignored. That's when you can spike a serpent down.
Of course, that is neither here or now. We all know that nowadays, we no longer see wave serpents on the tabletop, at least not competitively. Just like the hive guard.
jy2 wrote: Lictor shooting isn't actually good. At most, if they're lucky, they might immobilize a wave serpent back then or finish off a serpent that was already damaged. You just can't rely on their shooting to do very much.
What is dangerous, however, is their assault the following turn. If the Eldar player ignores him (due to mawlocs, dakkafexes and flyants in the vicinity), then he can do surprising damage to a wave serpent or a unit of troops who disembark from it. Of course the key to the lictor survivability is threat overload. Put other, more dangerous units nearby and the lictor will be seen as a low priority target and in many cases, ignored. That's when you can spike a serpent down.
Of course, that is neither here or now. We all know that nowadays, we no longer see wave serpents on the tabletop, at least not competitively. Just like the hive guard.
I played against 2 at nova -_-
2015/09/26 01:38:41
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
This may have been answered 200 some pages ago but what's the effectiveness of the Wrecker Node Formation with a Toxicrene? Aside from costing an arm and a leg at 650+ pts.
Is it too much of a deathstar? But everything at least has synapse and shrouded :(
Just realized you could use a Malanthrope if you can play FW and save 80pts.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/26 01:41:44
“No one expects the Imperial Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise, fear and surprise; two chief weapons, fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency! Er, among our chief weapons are: fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, and near fanatical devotion to the God Emperor of Mankind! Um, I'll come in again...”
=][= Silent Guards =][=
2015/09/26 06:15:48
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Gatekeeper wrote: This may have been answered 200 some pages ago but what's the effectiveness of the Wrecker Node Formation with a Toxicrene? Aside from costing an arm and a leg at 650+ pts.
Gatekeeper wrote: This may have been answered 200 some pages ago but what's the effectiveness of the Wrecker Node Formation with a Toxicrene? Aside from costing an arm and a leg at 650+ pts.
Is it too much of a deathstar? But everything at least has synapse and shrouded :(
Just realized you could use a Malanthrope if you can play FW and save 80pts.
The Toxicrene doesn't have the Spore Cloud rule, just Shrouded itself.
The Wrecker Node is really cool (I will take any chance I can to bust out the trio of Crushing Claws/Scything Talons Carnifex; they look awesome), but it's just not going to but it for the cost in today's world in a general environment. If you're facing a lot of fortifications, or a really tank-heavy opponent you could get something out of it because there are plenty of things for the monsters to lumber after, but generally their ideal targets are not too common, and the cost of a decent Wrecker Node without going too heavy on the upgrades is at least 495 points (three Carnifex with Adrenal Glands and three Warriors with no upgrades). Don't get me wrong, the D3+1 HoW hits per Carnifex is awesome, and a charging Carnifex still hits like a... well a charging Carnifex actually. WS3 and the loss of re-rolls from the Talons have really hurt their reliability though, and coupled with their slow speed if they whiff for a turn it's an enormous problem.
Now, the Bio-blast Node on the other hand is an awesome setup (albeit even more expensive). A trio of dakkafex with re-rolls of a 1 to wound, and an Acid Spray Tyrannofex (also with re-rolls of a 1 to wound), with some babysitting Warriors (definitely add that Malanthrope) are really hardcore, hit almost as hard in combat and can be a real pain to get rid of. They don't even need the Toxicrene for support; just keep a couple of broods of Hormagaunts nearby to intercept charges etc, and unleash terrifying mid-range firepower.
2015/09/26 18:36:07
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Was just glancing at this thread again, and had a few newb questions:
1. From what I'm seeing for lists, it looks like "codex hive tyrant" is still in full swing?
2. Are there any fun alternate ways to run tyranids that are still effective? I've considered running something with a lot of pods, perhaps combined with an outflanking unit (I know a flyrant or two are necessary). I also painted up 150 gaunts lol... although 20 in a pod or outflanking seem legit.
For reference, here's the units I've built and painted:
Flyrant
2 x DakkaFex
2 x Mawloc
Tervigon / Tyrannofex (magnetized)
3 Zoanthropes
150 gaunts
I'm up for building another Flyrant, a few Malanthropes, some Gargoyles, a Bastion, some Pods... but am not really interested in undertaking it if it won't be fun to play or decently competitive. Running the above painted models, I felt like I was just pushing models to the center of the board and then removing them all game lol
Thanks for any tips!
2015/09/26 18:40:19
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
I too would love some advice on running gaunt heavy armies.
But my experience is that t3 with virtually no armor just melts in todays meta, no matter how "friendly" the game :(
And VS certain armies they face ultra hard counters (mech, knights, gunlines, bike spam - oh boy does str3 hurt VS t5
Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be
By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.
"Feelin' goods, good enough".
2015/09/26 18:52:18
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Yeah, while a gaunt-heavy army would be cool, I know that might not be viable (and honestly, from trying to run it I didn't find it that much fun, either - dying in droves never is ). I do have rippers and am open to just running some minimum troops - but not to running more than a few flyrants. There's got to be some other build that works...
Has anyone tried a Flyrant + almost all pods / outflanking type list?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/26 18:54:54
2015/09/26 20:28:10
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
RiTides wrote: Was just glancing at this thread again, and had a few newb questions:
1. From what I'm seeing for lists, it looks like "codex hive tyrant" is still in full swing?
2. Are there any fun alternate ways to run tyranids that are still effective? I've considered running something with a lot of pods, perhaps combined with an outflanking unit (I know a flyrant or two are necessary). I also painted up 150 gaunts lol... although 20 in a pod or outflanking seem legit.
For reference, here's the units I've built and painted:
Flyrant
2 x DakkaFex
2 x Mawloc
Tervigon / Tyrannofex (magnetized)
3 Zoanthropes
150 gaunts
I'm up for building another Flyrant, a few Malanthropes, some Gargoyles, a Bastion, some Pods... but am not really interested in undertaking it if it won't be fun to play or decently competitive. Running the above painted models, I felt like I was just pushing models to the center of the board and then removing them all game lol
Thanks for any tips!
This is a list I'm sure I've posted a time or two...it's not the killiest, but it can win games...
thats around...1800? maybe 1795...so double out one of the Thrope Broods, add or subtract a Gaunt, and you're "OK"..
The Hormagaunts are there to provide a screen for the Tervigon, if it does not Outflank, and the Dakkafexen. I like to form up a "Bugstar" of a Bigbug, a screen, a Synapse, and a source of Shrouding. The main weakness of this list is lack of Synapse, so if a foe concentrates on killing your Synapse, you will do poorly.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/26 20:54:54
The will of the hive is always the same: HUNGER
2015/09/26 21:08:19
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
That's similar to a list I've run, and been considering breaking out again (swap in Malanthropes for the Venomthropes to bring it to 1850). But from playing it a bit, it just feels like one big walking target... I tried it with a Bastion as well, which helps things survive a little by putting a venom or Malanthrope inside... but it's still just a shooting gallery facing any "good" list.
Wish we could run something like this and be effective:
Maybe doing more target saturation with only big bugs would help, but I don't think they're survivable or fast enough to make it across the board on foot even with Malanthropes.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/26 21:09:04
2015/09/27 04:59:14
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Yeah, the "plan" is to use the Big Bugs as targets, that lets the Tervigon Outflank, and the Winged Dakka'rants go do their "thing"
Inside the "Bugstar" the Big Bug has a very good cover save, so it takes a Lot of AT fire to kill them. Mawlocs get to take a bite before becoming targets, and might be able to return under ground. Against a "Gunline" style foe, you can really tear them up. You can even do "OK" vs a Drop Pod force, because of the Mawlocs.
Just talk up how unstoppable and Awesome the Dakkafexen are, so your foe will focus on killing them.
The will of the hive is always the same: HUNGER
2015/09/27 06:07:46
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
RiTides wrote: Yeah, while a gaunt-heavy army would be cool, I know that might not be viable (and honestly, from trying to run it I didn't find it that much fun, either - dying in droves never is ). I do have rippers and am open to just running some minimum troops - but not to running more than a few flyrants. There's got to be some other build that works...
Has anyone tried a Flyrant + almost all pods / outflanking type list?
I run almost exclusively guant heavy lists, my collection is 3rd army hold over. Here is a typical list at 1850:
It plays well enough against even competitive lists. I do get game were it is just ugly, but I also get some very pretty wins againt list you would not expect. I can reliably push games to 5 turns, my SM lists can't say the same thing.
2015/09/27 14:31:01
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Gant-heavy lists are definitely possible. I would probably run 1-2 troop choice tervigons in addition to a lot of gants. You can count on a tervigon for roughly 20 spawned gants over the course of the game before it poops out. You need 60 in addition to that to run the two troop tervigons. Is 80 enough? If not have another tervigon.
So the issue with tervigons is that they used to be able to take upgrades and have the gants nearby gain those upgrades (poison, furious charge, etc). No more, which is largely why they have fallen by the wayside competitively. Also, the ill effects when the tervigon dies are no longer as easily avoidable. However, if you keep them barebones, it's still a ton of obsec bodies. Plus the big girl herself isn't easy to take down.
The key to doing tervigon spam well in the current meta (or just troop tervigons at all) is an abundance of cover. This is true for almost all Tyranid lists but especially when you have a bunch of little gribblies running around. This is done with Malanthropes. Honestly if you could put a Malanthrope into a unit, you would see hoard lists doing very well at tournaments. As is, a top tier tournament list should be able to focus one out relatively soon (especially if they have ignores cover) but most lists still need to get through a very durable platform that also will have 2+ or 3+ cover for the entire game. You will likely need two Malanthropes if you plan on running a ton of gribblies. Three wouldn't be awful honestly.
Also worth pointing out that many of these principles apply to MSU Genestealer spam, which some people have been trying out (although admittedly I don't know to what extent it has been successful)
Some tips on how to get the most out of your cover:
1) Always have at least one guy within range of your Malanthrope, and the whole unit will obtain shrouded (one of those rules that confers to the unit)
2) Utilize screening units. My favorite ones are gargoyles because they never slow down your advance. Still want to daisy-chain someone back to within 6" of a Malanthrope.
3) If you find yourself outside of synapse, remember that you can go to ground for increased cover. Normally, this isn't the best idea because a Malanthrope gives you +2 cover vs +1 for gtg, but it can be helpful at times.
3a) Remember that synapse cancels gtg entirely, so there's never any reason not to gtg as long as you can get a synapse creature in range by the next turn
4) Always always roll for night fighting. Stacks with the Malanthrope cover so you will get 4+ saves in the open and 2+ saves if you had any sort of cover save (even from intervening models in the front screening unit)
5) If you have an especially important Malanthrope (or only one) I would recommend a bunker or a bastion (with Comms relay - you won't regret it). It shrugs off most of the building damage table results and the effects of the Malanthrope go rom the edges of the building, so you get a much larger area of effect.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/27 14:32:26
2015/09/27 14:33:10
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
For what its worth, my Killadelphia list had dual Tervigons (one HQ, one troop) and they were awesome. However, it was largely dependent on the matchup.
RiTides wrote: Was just glancing at this thread again, and had a few newb questions:
1. From what I'm seeing for lists, it looks like "codex hive tyrant" is still in full swing?
2. Are there any fun alternate ways to run tyranids that are still effective? I've considered running something with a lot of pods, perhaps combined with an outflanking unit (I know a flyrant or two are necessary). I also painted up 150 gaunts lol... although 20 in a pod or outflanking seem legit.
For reference, here's the units I've built and painted:
Flyrant
2 x DakkaFex
2 x Mawloc
Tervigon / Tyrannofex (magnetized)
3 Zoanthropes
150 gaunts
I'm up for building another Flyrant, a few Malanthropes, some Gargoyles, a Bastion, some Pods... but am not really interested in undertaking it if it won't be fun to play or decently competitive. Running the above painted models, I felt like I was just pushing models to the center of the board and then removing them all game lol
Thanks for any tips!
If you don't want to go flyrant-heavy, then there are 2 ways to go about it. But before I get into that, I'd recommend at least 2 flyrants, especially if you plan to run this in tournament play as well as casual.
3x Rippers - Deepstrike (or you can run another 10 Termagants if you don't want to get the ripper models)
3x Rippers - Deepstrike (or you can run another 10 Termagants if you don't want to get the ripper models)
Mawloc
2. If you want to run a gant-based army, then luke1705's tervigon-based suggestion is what I would recommend. I'd go something like this:
Jy2 - Cool lists, thank you! For the first, do the zoeys go in the third pod? And why have the Bastion at all - would it be better to just have very little presence in the deployment zone (such as starting the Flyrants off of the board) or is the problem with that lack of synapse?
I am totally OK with running some rippers - I got some specifically based on your advice here, but didn't think the rest of the army would be viable.
So, let me know what you think about the Bastion - if that is really important to the list or if it'd be better to present no large targets. And what do you think about a Tyrannofex instead of a Dakkafex?
Finally, if someone could tell me what the Lictor does in the list I would appreciate it
2015/09/27 19:23:44
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
RiTides wrote: Those are some great posts guys - gives me hope!
Jy2 - Cool lists, thank you! For the first, do the zoeys go in the third pod? And why have the Bastion at all - would it be better to just have very little presence in the deployment zone (such as starting the Flyrants off of the board) or is the problem with that lack of synapse?
I am totally OK with running some rippers - I got some specifically based on your advice here, but didn't think the rest of the army would be viable.
So, let me know what you think about the Bastion - if that is really important to the list or if it'd be better to present no large targets. And what do you think about a Tyrannofex instead of a Dakkafex?
Finally, if someone could tell me what the Lictor does in the list I would appreciate it
Yeah, 1 pod for the zoeys.
The bastion is mainly for the Comms Relay to control your reserves. However, it can also be used to house your malanthrope and to let your flyrants hide behind. If you want to dump it, that's fine. Then I would consider an Aegis w/Comms Relay. Just keep in mind that even in a Reserves-based army, you need to have enough resiliency on the ground so that you won't get tabled on Turn 1 against the likes of Tau or drop pod armies.
Rippers are excellent in a Reserves-based army.
Tyrannofex is a decent option and definitely more resilient, though the dakkafex is probably the better all-purpose unit.
Lictor was because I had 50-pts left. He's good for several purposes: 1) no-scatter deepstrike makes him a surgical tool to get to far-away objectives, 2) put him in ruins outside of Synapse and he becomes very durable with a 2+ go-to-ground cover save, 3) he's great for Linebreaker purposes and 4) occassionally, he can be used as a beacon for your mawloc to come in without scatter. Now he isn't absolutely a must-have for your list, but he provides a lot of utility for only 50-pts.
If you dump the bastion, then you are just going to have to rely on regular reserve rolls for your army.
Okay you have convinced me . I just need to get the pods, and build the Bastion and second Flyrant.
One last question on heavy support choices - do you like keeping the Zoeys in the list (rather than another big bug) for the third pod - I'm guessing they're helpful to provide some upfield synapse? And if I could find the points would a single Biovore be worth it to hide behind the Bastion?
Actually one more is the void shield really worth it on the Bastion? It's AV12 so doesn't that just give their lower powered shooting something to knock off before they take aim with the big guns? Since I'm thinking not much else will be visible on the first turn (Flyrants might be).
Pulling the trigger on 3 - 4 pods based on all this!!
Edit: I'm getting that the list is 10 points over (probably because of the rippers instead of termagaunts in the second CAD). What would you think of my dropping 1 Zoanthrope to do the following: Cover the cost of 3 troop units being Rippers instead of Gaunts (+15 total), change 1 DakkaFex to Tyrannofex w/ E-grubs (+35). Can the Zoeys work in the pod with just 2 in the unit?
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/09/27 20:19:25
2015/09/28 00:08:42
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
RiTides wrote: Okay you have convinced me . I just need to get the pods, and build the Bastion and second Flyrant.
One last question on heavy support choices - do you like keeping the Zoeys in the list (rather than another big bug) for the third pod - I'm guessing they're helpful to provide some upfield synapse? And if I could find the points would a single Biovore be worth it to hide behind the Bastion?
Actually one more is the void shield really worth it on the Bastion? It's AV12 so doesn't that just give their lower powered shooting something to knock off before they take aim with the big guns? Since I'm thinking not much else will be visible on the first turn (Flyrants might be).
Pulling the trigger on 3 - 4 pods based on all this!!
Edit: I'm getting that the list is 10 points over (probably because of the rippers instead of termagaunts in the second CAD). What would you think of my dropping 1 Zoanthrope to do the following: Cover the cost of 3 troop units being Rippers instead of Gaunts (+15 total), change 1 DakkaFex to Tyrannofex w/ E-grubs (+35). Can the Zoeys work in the pod with just 2 in the unit?
Void shield is mainly to protect against drop podding melta. It will take away 1 melta hit at least. BTW, it is ruled in the ITC and Nova that melta does not get the extra +D6 against it. Also, grav cannot hurt the void shields either, which makes the bastion immune to grav.
Also, one cool thing about void shields is that it protects units on the battlement as well. So if you put your biovore on top, he'll get 2+ cover from the battlement and malanthrope inside along with protection of the void shield as well. The biovore is a good unit. If you want to run them consider swapping out the zoans + tyrannocyte for a mawloc + biovores.
Zoans are not reliable offensive units. They are more of a force-multiplier unit with their Synapse and psychic powers. Personally, I'd drop them for another dakkafex or even a tyrannofex, but that is more of a preference thing. I included it in the sample list because you've already got the models.
Have we put together units/formations that have synergies with each other? For example:
Hive Tyrant + Crone = up close and personal offense
Harpy + Living Artillery Formation + Mucolids + Spore Mine Clusters = Area of denial utility
Lictors + Mawlocs = yum
“No one expects the Imperial Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise, fear and surprise; two chief weapons, fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency! Er, among our chief weapons are: fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, and near fanatical devotion to the God Emperor of Mankind! Um, I'll come in again...”
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
6000+
2000
15000
4000 
Order of the Ebon Chalice, 2,624pts
Officio Assassinorum, 570pts
562pts 
The main weakness of this list is lack of Synapse, so if a foe concentrates on killing your Synapse, you will do poorly. 
You can even do "OK" vs a Drop Pod force, because of the Mawlocs. 