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Stupid crazy question: would it be possible for smaller Tyranids to be controlled by someone or at least train them to attack specific enemies? I can see some type of microchip implanted into it's brain to take over it's movements. Or take out the brain, put some other brain or something else to control them. Part 2 of the question: can they be possessed by Chaos? Or does the hive mind prevent that? 

Tyranids can't really be possessed by chaos. But a hive ship was once mutated and corruPt by the warp.

Well, for the first question, it's hard to say. But it is worth noting that it isn't like you can just pick off a few Tyranids and run off to the Imperium's Department of Mad Science to do this. Because when you run into Tyranids...it is in the middle of a Tyranid invasion and there's a whole lot more of those bugs coming.

As for the second, no. Tyranids are more or less immune to corruption, as they have no desires or even anything that daemons would want.

 Focke_Wulf wrote:
Stupid crazy question: would it be possible for smaller Tyranids to be controlled by someone or at least train them to attack specific enemies? I can see some type of microchip implanted into it's brain to take over it's movements. Or take out the brain, put some other brain or something else to control them. Part 2 of the question: can they be possessed by Chaos? Or does the hive mind prevent that? 

Not likely, no. Tyranid lifeforms don't really live all that long, and for however long they last, they are still hyper-evolved killing machines without control if they are out of synapse. And no, Chaos has never managed to gain control over any Tyranids.

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:

Not likely, no. Tyranid lifeforms don't really live all that long, and for however long they last, they are still hyper-evolved killing machines without control if they are out of synapse. And no, Chaos has never managed to gain control over any Tyranids.

Sort of true. Storm of Iron (not a bad read) documents an Iron Warriors Grand Company that attacked a Tyranid Hive Ship, beat it into submission, dragged it off to the Eye of Terror and tortured it to brain-death. They infected it with the Obliterator virus, and with the "mind" of the Hive Ship dead and gone the Obliterator virusnow puppets the body of the Hive Ship (and they use it to transport their Daemon-possessed Titans).

The above is really just necromancy, and there is no reason why "dead" Tyranids cannot be puppeted like that really. You could probably even lobotomise lesser Tyranids in a similar manner to Servitor creation, but Tyranid "minds" are largely speaking pretty one-track so how well that would really work I don't know. Then there is the simple matter of actually getting your hands on some Tyranids and keeping them contained; the Anphellion Project Forge World book nicely documnts how badly things go when some Adepts take a delivery of Termagants for study (they have soon somehow multiplied, spawned everything from Zoanthropes to Bio-titans, and scour the planet).

So there is a little bit of wiggle room here, but it's not the sort of thing you could build an army around. You could do a cool Inquisitor, Dark Eldar or Chaos version of something like the above, but that's about it I think.

There is no synapse replicator where unlike the psi disrupter in starcraft. There is little fluff to show that you can control the nids. There is a source where if memory serves me correctly, Fabius Bile enslaved a zoanthrope to mind control slaves.

Other than those novelty, none have hit any success in exerting control over the nids.

Tyranids could certainly be corrupted by the warp. As they aren't "sentient" in a true sense, they can't be "turned" to actually serving chaos, but there's nothing to imply that they can't be possessed by daemons or mutated into abominations by the warp. After all, Daemons can and have possessed inanimate objects such as machines- so if they can corrupt inanimate objects, surely they can corrupt a thing of flesh.

The biggest obstacle would be the Shadow in the Warp, since it acts as a buffer between the warp and real-space.

The entire premise seems flawed to me. Anything that is a synapse should not be controllable or corruptable as it is a living conduit for the hivemind. Your bigger non synapse bugs are simply too dangerous to have a chance to control. The little guys essentially operate on nothing but basic instincts. To control these creatures you would have to find a way to completely by-pass the most base instincts. Furthermore, the second these creatures got anywhere near the hive mind again they would fall back into its control since the link to the hive mind is more then simply a psychic link but a genetic link as well.

Sure, mindshackles.

Animus wrote:
Sure, mindshackles.

What CANT mind shackle scarabs do?

Just gona leave this here...



Other than that, I don't think it would be possible to truly "train" nids. Given that they are clearly not "pack" animals I think it would be like trying to train a tiger. You might be able to get it to do some basic things, but you would never be 100% sure when it was going decide to do something different, and the thing about tigers is they are much easier to contain than a nid. It would not be like training a dog.

As with all things 40k, the answer is always yes, with caveats

During an invasion, minor bugs lurk in spawning pools and egg storage chambers until they are needed (was it a FW terrain piece?). With appropriate hand wavium you could have an elite psychically nulled strike team infiltrate and steal some eggs or live specimens for "research". Keep them away from the Hive Mind and the constructs will revert to their original instincts, or jsut clone them and leave out the hive mind magical communications glands (its a technical term, definately). If we, now, can have a home science kit designed to radio control a cockroach, I don't see why something more sophosticated couldn't be tried in a sci-fi setting.

The rogue Rachnai in Mass Effect are a rather nice parallel. constructs raised away from the racial "overmind" and being controlled by a 3rd party.

 Focke_Wulf wrote:
Stupid crazy question: would it be possible for smaller Tyranids to be controlled by someone or at least train them to attack specific enemies? I can see some type of microchip implanted into it's brain to take over it's movements. Or take out the brain, put some other brain or something else to control them.

No. Imperial Armour Volume 4 was actually about something similar. And it ended exactly how you might imagine.
Think of Jurassic Park, but with more explosions.

Part 2 of the question: can they be possessed by Chaos? Or does the hive mind prevent that? 

They can't be possessed. They have no souls to be possessed. They can be mutated or corrupted, but that's just from exposure and does not actually make them "Chaos Tyranids".

It should be noted that Daemons do not require the target of their possession to have a soul in order to possess it. This is how you get daemonically-possessed machines.

Whether that applies to Tyranids or not, who knows? But just pointing out that having a soul is not a requirement for daemonic possession.

Drat, I'm late. Well, as pointed out in prior posts, there are actually a few examples in the fluff of attempts to do this, with mixed results but generally short of full control. (Fabius Bile, Iron Warriors Necromancy, Jurassic Park IN SPACE)

If I recall correctly, and I could be wrong, Fabius Bile did control one, but it was not happy about that and when loyalist marines came across it, it seemed like it wanted to die (which they gladly obliged).

TiamatRoar wrote:
Drat, I'm late. Well, as pointed out in prior posts, there are actually a few examples in the fluff of attempts to do this, with mixed results but generally short of full control. (Fabius Bile, Iron Warriors Necromancy, Jurassic Park IN SPACE)

If I recall correctly, and I could be wrong, Fabius Bile did control one, but it was not happy about that and when loyalist marines came across it, it seemed like it wanted to die (which they gladly obliged).

What bio-form?

 Psienesis wrote:
It should be noted that Daemons do not require the target of their possession to have a soul in order to possess it. This is how you get daemonically-possessed machines.

Whether that applies to Tyranids or not, who knows? But just pointing out that having a soul is not a requirement for daemonic possession.

Remember that the "daemonically-possessed machines" like Defilers or Decimator Engines, which are purpose built to contain a daemon. You also have things like possessed Leman Russes, fighter craft, etc where the daemon was originally possessing the crew but the crew gradually became more and more part of the machine.

Exception to the rule seems to be the Iron Men that we saw in "First and Only", but even then they weren't "daemonically possessed" but rather the machinery that built them was thoroughly corrupted to the point where the corruption affected the items produced by the machines.

 the shrouded lord wrote:

TiamatRoar wrote:
Drat, I'm late. Well, as pointed out in prior posts, there are actually a few examples in the fluff of attempts to do this, with mixed results but generally short of full control. (Fabius Bile, Iron Warriors Necromancy, Jurassic Park IN SPACE)

If I recall correctly, and I could be wrong, Fabius Bile did control one, but it was not happy about that and when loyalist marines came across it, it seemed like it wanted to die (which they gladly obliged).

What bio-form?

A zoanthrope

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Rafen (The Fabius Bile incident)

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
It should be noted that Daemons do not require the target of their possession to have a soul in order to possess it. This is how you get daemonically-possessed machines.

Whether that applies to Tyranids or not, who knows? But just pointing out that having a soul is not a requirement for daemonic possession.

Remember that the "daemonically-possessed machines" like Defilers or Decimator Engines, which are purpose built to contain a daemon. You also have things like possessed Leman Russes, fighter craft, etc where the daemon was originally possessing the crew but the crew gradually became more and more part of the machine.

Exception to the rule seems to be the Iron Men that we saw in "First and Only", but even then they weren't "daemonically possessed" but rather the machinery that built them was thoroughly corrupted to the point where the corruption affected the items produced by the machines.

Explain the 'Daemonic Possession' upgrade for Chaos Predators, Rhinos, and Land Raiders.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
It should be noted that Daemons do not require the target of their possession to have a soul in order to possess it. This is how you get daemonically-possessed machines.

Whether that applies to Tyranids or not, who knows? But just pointing out that having a soul is not a requirement for daemonic possession.

Remember that the "daemonically-possessed machines" like Defilers or Decimator Engines, which are purpose built to contain a daemon. You also have things like possessed Leman Russes, fighter craft, etc where the daemon was originally possessing the crew but the crew gradually became more and more part of the machine.

Exception to the rule seems to be the Iron Men that we saw in "First and Only", but even then they weren't "daemonically possessed" but rather the machinery that built them was thoroughly corrupted to the point where the corruption affected the items produced by the machines.

I'm talking about machines not of Chaotic Origins. Like the daemonic cogitators that Ravenor dealt with.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
It should be noted that Daemons do not require the target of their possession to have a soul in order to possess it. This is how you get daemonically-possessed machines.

Whether that applies to Tyranids or not, who knows? But just pointing out that having a soul is not a requirement for daemonic possession.

Remember that the "daemonically-possessed machines" like Defilers or Decimator Engines, which are purpose built to contain a daemon. You also have things like possessed Leman Russes, fighter craft, etc where the daemon was originally possessing the crew but the crew gradually became more and more part of the machine.

Exception to the rule seems to be the Iron Men that we saw in "First and Only", but even then they weren't "daemonically possessed" but rather the machinery that built them was thoroughly corrupted to the point where the corruption affected the items produced by the machines.

Explain the 'Daemonic Possession' upgrade for Chaos Predators, Rhinos, and Land Raiders.

Machine Spirits and the power therein?

 Extreaminatus wrote:

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
It should be noted that Daemons do not require the target of their possession to have a soul in order to possess it. This is how you get daemonically-possessed machines.

Whether that applies to Tyranids or not, who knows? But just pointing out that having a soul is not a requirement for daemonic possession.

Remember that the "daemonically-possessed machines" like Defilers or Decimator Engines, which are purpose built to contain a daemon. You also have things like possessed Leman Russes, fighter craft, etc where the daemon was originally possessing the crew but the crew gradually became more and more part of the machine.

Exception to the rule seems to be the Iron Men that we saw in "First and Only", but even then they weren't "daemonically possessed" but rather the machinery that built them was thoroughly corrupted to the point where the corruption affected the items produced by the machines.

Explain the 'Daemonic Possession' upgrade for Chaos Predators, Rhinos, and Land Raiders.

Machine Spirits and the power therein?

Machine-Spirits are probably AI code. Or completely non-existent. The setting could go either way.

Yeah, but it's better than nothing. Since it's not definitive, it could also be argued that's how they get possessed. Artificial intelligence is still intelligence, and intelligence can be corrupted and possessed.

Not saying that's THE answer here, but it's something.

 Focke_Wulf wrote:
Stupid crazy question: would it be possible for smaller Tyranids to be controlled by someone or at least train them to attack specific enemies? I can see some type of microchip implanted into it's brain to take over it's movements. Or take out the brain, put some other brain or something else to control them.

Welcome to Weyland-Yutani Corporation. You passed your test with excellence!

 Extreaminatus wrote:
Yeah, but it's better than nothing. Since it's not definitive, it could also be argued that's how they get possessed. Artificial intelligence is still intelligence, and intelligence can be corrupted and possessed.

Not saying that's THE answer here, but it's something.

While that's possibly true, my argument still stands. A soul is not the same thing as intelligence, as Untouchables have no souls, but are still intelligent.

Touche!

My only counter-argument is that it's machine spirit instead of machine brain.

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree!

Tyranids can be corrupted, but they can't be corrupted in a easy and practical way.

TiamatRoar wrote:

 the shrouded lord wrote:

TiamatRoar wrote:
Drat, I'm late. Well, as pointed out in prior posts, there are actually a few examples in the fluff of attempts to do this, with mixed results but generally short of full control. (Fabius Bile, Iron Warriors Necromancy, Jurassic Park IN SPACE)

If I recall correctly, and I could be wrong, Fabius Bile did control one, but it was not happy about that and when loyalist marines came across it, it seemed like it wanted to die (which they gladly obliged).

What bio-form?

A zoanthrope

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Rafen (The Fabius Bile incident)

Wow... that is truly awful stuff.

He had to killeded his own brother...
*tear drips from eye*

 Focke_Wulf wrote:
Stupid crazy question: would it be possible for smaller Tyranids to be controlled by someone or at least train them to attack specific enemies? I can see some type of microchip implanted into it's brain to take over it's movements. Or take out the brain, put some other brain or something else to control them. Part 2 of the question: can they be possessed by Chaos? Or does the hive mind prevent that? 

The first part was actually dealt with on a small scale in the short story "The Curiosity" where a Magos Biologis discovers a predator that nobody had seen before and was slaughtering its way through a backwater province, was in truth a Hormagaunt that had been smuggled onto a world and had a cybernetic control implanted in its head. It was strongly hinted that the local Bishop was behind it all along.