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Lets say it's a few hundred years after the date the Horus Heresy WOULD have tooken place, but the Tau, Necrons, Tyranids all show up anyway..what would the galaxy be like?

The Alpha Legion would be among the best of the Astartes.

 Gorgrimm wrote:
The Alpha Legion would be among the best of the Astartes.

elaborate more on this :3 this thread is just going to be a geeky circlejerk of favorite primarchs and factions anyway

The tau would be dead, a full-on crusade would have probably wiped them out back before they developed to their current level. Since alot of the imperium's current problems stem from fighting chaos, they could focus more on external threats.

Less Grimdark = no fun.

In all seriousness the two biggest threats to mankind would be eliminate. Chaos and the nids. If the Emperor was able to finish his "pet project" there be no astromanicon to attract the nids and the forces of chaos would be a lot weaker then they are now.

Yea, Tau would be dead for sure. I think they still would've grown to level they are now, seeing as they were caught in a Warp Storm the entire time and that's how they had time to develop to the state they are now. But the moment they were caught expanding, the Imperium would've easily destroyed them.

I believe the Imperium would have detected the Necrons far sooner if the HH never occurred. Obviously, the tech of the Imperium would have surpassed what they have now, and would've been able to detect the tomb worlds that litter the galaxy and would've been much more prepared as they started to awaken.

Tyranids...still would've come as a surprise, but I'm sure at least a more formidable defense could be erected against them with legions of Space Marines, well equipped Imperial Guard and not as many threats to beat down.

Edit: I don't think the Astronomicon is what strictly brought them to the Milky Way Galaxy, it's just what's causing all the Hive Fleets to gravitate towards Earth.

 Imperial_Arson wrote:

 Gorgrimm wrote:
The Alpha Legion would be among the best of the Astartes.

elaborate more on this :3 this thread is just going to be a geeky circlejerk of favorite primarchs and factions anyway

Yeah, judging by Legion, the novel, they were always trying to prove themseolves, but they ended up choosing the end of humanity to save the galaxy, which was far more noble than anything else, only it didn't work. If it had they would have been the noblest legion. But it failed, so they devolved into Chaos. I figure they'd have proven themselves and been very noble if the heresy hadn't happened. Not really a huge Alpha Legion fan, just going by the background.

Humanity would probably be a full-fledged psychic race, similar to the eldar by this point. Warp overlaps are limited as the second phase of the Emperor's plan would have been to replicate the Cadian pylons and install them around every warp space portal. The Imperial Truth has had ten thousand years to choke out the Chaos Gods, who are severely weakened. Continued high birth rates with low mortality causes humans to terraform and inhabit many more planets, resulting in a much higher population density, which accelerates the rate at which STCs are recovered.

Gradual changes in the Mechanicum, driven by the emperor, lead to an increase in innovation and a partial boot strapping of technology over millenia. Fundamental understanding of science and technology approaches that of the DOAT however it cannot exceed it due to the prohibition against machine intelligences. Various work arounds to the singularity problem are in development.

Tau may not have been destroyed as they might have surrendered to a less xenophobic Imperium, who may have spared them due to their non existent warp potential. Necrons remain an existential threat. By the 41st millenium around half the primarchs have died, including a few, angron and lorgar, who fell to Chaos and were destroyed. Most of the galaxy is divided up into fiefdoms ruled over by a primarch under the authority of the Emperor. Exceptions being for Magnus and Horus, who reside with the Emperor in the palace.Thousand Son legion has been destroyed by flesh change and disbanded. Emperor is considering a second generation of primarchs now that the nature of humanity has changed so much since the Great Crusade.

Ooooh and Vulkan could be one of the leaders of them! .

The only real big criticisms I can think of are, for starters, TS only got the flesh change again real bad once they got into the Eye of Terror, the Imperium of Mankind was rather xenophobic under the Emperor himself to begin with. Finally, seriously what is with the Imperial Creed nonsense. So it's to focus on reason and science without faith? That's not really what feeds chaos. What feeds chaos is love, rage, bloodshed, warfare, betrayal, change, discovery, loss, disparity, disease, fatalism, hopes, dreams. It would required ripping down these tenents from every Imperial race along with every member of the galaxy except for Necrons (Nids not there yet). As long as one experiences such emotions there will always be something feeding it and it also requires the Imperium wiping out any other race, waiting for the bloodshed to pass by, and then keep order throughout the galaxy. It's so much that it really doesn't even make sense to me at least.

A different set of primarchs realise that the emperor is nothing but a xenophobic despot and the HH happens anyway, this time by the name of: the Sanguinius Subversion, the Lion Liberation, the Madness of Magnus, the Khan Krusade, the Russ Reclamation, the Fulgrim Fallacy or maybe even the Angron Agitation.

Then the Tyranids eat everyone, the Necrons chase the Tyranids off and then give up on attaining apotheosis because "it's dumb and being a robot is totally cooler anyway."

There was a story called the Dornian Heresy I think.

Maybe chaos would have sought to corrupt orks to increase their numbers and unite enough of the ork population to be a threat? I don't know how vulnerable orks are to being corrupted. I know they have their own pair of gods but my knowledge of their fluff is minimal.

Well the nids couldn't even kill a mere chapter of ultramarines, had the heresy not happened we can possibly guess that the ultras would have a couple million marines (as armatura would also be around), the nids would be a minor skirmish for them and Swarmy would be beaten down by roboute, that's not even considering the possibly million each legion of the other 18 primarchs AND the emperor... Crikey, 40k on those terms would be endgame for every other race out there

 GreenWarMachine wrote:
Less Grimdark = no fun.

In all seriousness the two biggest threats to mankind would be eliminate. Chaos and the nids. If the Emperor was able to finish his "pet project" there be no astromanicon to attract the nids and the forces of chaos would be a lot weaker then they are now.

The Astronomicon existed during the GC, it was a necessity for Warp travel. I don't see that changing because the Heresy didn't happen.

He means that the human webway project could have been completed. Which would have rendered warp travel somewhat unecessary.

Ork are not that physically corruptible, at lest from what little fluff I know about them. They have also changed the fluff of their pyckers more then once so how much connection the race has to the warp is questionable. Honestly I do not see the orks being a viable race for chaos and if they where, only khorne.

The Nids would still come, but you would probably see fewer worlds lost before a response is mounted, leading they to be a more manageable threat. At least at first

I doubt the Imperium would be close to the Necrons in terms of tech, since nothing suggests the Imperium of man could duplicate the demensional technology of the necrons. Also fluff from the book suggest, the Necrons have lost a bit of their tech during their sleep, so it's hard to say what they possessed before hand. It is also stated that the elder have lost the ability to replicate some of their technology as well. Some of the most powerful items the inquisition has have questionable back ground and it is suggested in may be Xeon in origin. Also the primarchs could every easly fall to the C'Tan shards, at least in terms of power scaling; but lets face it GW would not let that happen.

As for the imperium itself, It would probably be better off and more unified as a whole making it a much stronger force in shaping the galaxy. The Tau would be gone, the eldar fighting to hold their last few worlds or completely retreating into the webway, the orks while not exstinct much reduced in numbers, and the Xeons that are allied with the Tau dead. The only real threats remaining would be the Necrons, Tyranids, and Chaos.

This is also assuming another of the primarchs did not take Horus' place in starting a civil war. Some of the other primarch may have found issue with the intentions of the emperor as each genocide makes them doubt his moral character.

How about this:

Erebus and Kor Phaeron et al are found out and executed for their crimes and sedition. The Emperor's grand design is finally realised. However the threat of Chaos is still real and he recluses himself to fight an eternal battle to keep them at bay.

The Lion is named regent and must sever his ties to his Legion which is entrusted to Luther.

Horus remains warmaster but it is mostly ceremonial as there is no more crusade to prosecute.

Curze is brought to account for his continued atrocities but he refuses to go along and thewolves are set upon them and the Night Lords are struck from records.

Magnus becomes the new centre for the astronomican replacing the Emperor. Warp travel is thus reduced and the web way portals become more common with Magnus directing it all.


As the crusade is ended the Lion tasks Guilliman to reorganise the Legions and they are broken down into Chapters and maintain vigil over the Imperium and it's new Golden age.

With the Emeror fighting in the warp, and despite his wishes the Imperial population slowly recognise him as a god. The Cult Imperialis is born and the Word Bearers seize upon this and form the Ecclisarchy and become wardens of the Imperial Cult.

Alpharius, Lorgar, Perterabo, Russ, Ferrus and Fulgrim are recalled to Terra to form the basis of a new council, becoming the Lords of Terra. Command of their Legions are all devolved to their respective Chapter Masters. Dorn becomes the Lion's closest advisor. Only Gulliman is allowed to maintain direct command of his domain.

The Khan refuses to come to Terra and instead leads one of his chapters to the Eye of Terror and disapears.

Angron becomes more unstable and his chapter as a whole is decreed sanctioned by the Lion. Russ faces him in combat and is slain by Angron. Struck by grief for his actions he takes his own life by falling on Russ' sword. His remaining world eaters follow in the ritual suicide.

Sangunius becomes more taciturn and locks himself in a tower on Baal for unknown reasons. He will entertain no guests, not even his brothers.

Vulkan returns to Medusa and becomes the finest craftsman in the Imperium. He essentially retires.

Corax is also allowed to maintaing command of his domains but replaces Russ and is tasked with punishing any transgression by the Astartes should they happen.

Alpharius, as one of the high lords, creates the Inquisition, to root out any taint of chaos. The Alpha Legion become his agents across the Imperium. Omegon continues to operate in obscurity.

Mortarion is given the long term task of dealing with the Eldar. His only focus is to detroy what remains of the xenos.

As the years progress, Gulliman discovers the Tau and wipes them out, they become nothing more than a matter of record.

The Badab war breaks out briefly but Corax is sent in with his Ravens and ends it before it can gain any real traction. He beheads Huron himself.

The tyranids invade the Eastern Fringe. Guilliman defeats Hive fleet behemoth easily enough but due to the seemingly adaptable tyranids he recognises that they are a real threat. Dorn is assigned a crusading fleet and is tasked to find the source of the Tyranids and wipe them out . He is sent out but nothing of his fate is known but Hive fleet Kraken never appears.

The Eye of Terror is contained due in Large part to the earlier works of Perturabo and Dorn at fortifying that area.

The Necron awaken from their slumber but the Imperium with it's advancements made over 10 000 years are more than ready to deal with it.

or something like that...

The Lorgarian Heresy.

Horus is not turned but Lorgar and the rest of the Word Bearers turn regardless.

The Night Lords still turn.

The Thousand Sons still turn.

The Mechanicus could still be fractured.

These events aren't really caused by the Heresy, they would have happened regardless. Arguably Magnus wouldn't have needed to contact the Emperor, but something similar could have happened if he sent a warning about Lorgar.

You'd really need to have the Emperor acting differently in order to create a massive change.

 Medium of Death wrote:
The Lorgarian Heresy.

Horus is not turned but Lorgar and the rest of the Word Bearers turn regardless.

The Night Lords still turn.

The Thousand Sons still turn.

The Mechanicus could still be fractured.

These events aren't really caused by the Heresy, they would have happened regardless. Arguably Magnus wouldn't have needed to contact the Emperor, but something similar could have happened if he sent a warning about Lorgar.

You'd really need to have the Emperor acting differently in order to create a massive change.

That heresy would be far more easily dealt with than the Horus Heresy.

It's only three legions and a likely much smaller amount of the regular military and mechanicus.

The only real threatening legion in their is Word Bearers. Night Lords were always a small legion and Thousand Sons, if they even turned, were possibly the smallest legion of all. Simply put, it'd work best as a ambush, skirmish match. Also, if we want to go on from here, its not even sure if TS would turn. The emperor would be angry yes, but the real thing that ruined it was Horus telling the Wolves, yo the Emperor wants you to kill him. That and some funky nonsense about impersonation that still makes no sense. Also how did Mortarion fall again? Finally it is probably more likely that the World Eaters would fall considering their hatred of the Imperium, the Emperor, and after some warfare Angron starting to respect Lorgar.

still, it's simply not enough to make a difference besides being an irritation.

I kind of liked what Crantor said for the most part. A few things here and there disagreed with me but were stomachable but then I read this:

 Crantor wrote:


Angron becomes more unstable and his chapter as a whole is decreed sanctioned by the Lion. Russ faces him in combat and is slain by Angron. Struck by grief for his actions he takes his own life by falling on Russ' sword. His remaining world eaters follow in the ritual suicide.

And now I'm doing my best not to laugh out loud in the school library.

 King Pariah wrote:
I kind of liked what Crantor said for the most part. A few things here and there disagreed with me but were stomachable but then I read this:

 Crantor wrote:


Angron becomes more unstable and his chapter as a whole is decreed sanctioned by the Lion. Russ faces him in combat and is slain by Angron. Struck by grief for his actions he takes his own life by falling on Russ' sword. His remaining world eaters follow in the ritual suicide.

And now I'm doing my best not to laugh out loud in the school library.

I am so tempted to write a brief slash fic using the Angron/Leman Russ bit as a prompt.

 Kain wrote:

 King Pariah wrote:
I kind of liked what Crantor said for the most part. A few things here and there disagreed with me but were stomachable but then I read this:

 Crantor wrote:


Angron becomes more unstable and his chapter as a whole is decreed sanctioned by the Lion. Russ faces him in combat and is slain by Angron. Struck by grief for his actions he takes his own life by falling on Russ' sword. His remaining world eaters follow in the ritual suicide.

And now I'm doing my best not to laugh out loud in the school library.

I am so tempted to write a brief slash fic using the Angron/Leman Russ bit as a prompt.

Oh my, now that would definitely be a plot twist! I'm so tempted to make that my sig :')

 King Pariah wrote:
I kind of liked what Crantor said for the most part. A few things here and there disagreed with me but were stomachable but then I read this:

 Crantor wrote:


Angron becomes more unstable and his chapter as a whole is decreed sanctioned by the Lion. Russ faces him in combat and is slain by Angron. Struck by grief for his actions he takes his own life by falling on Russ' sword. His remaining world eaters follow in the ritual suicide.

And now I'm doing my best not to laugh out loud in the school library.

Meh. it's not like it happened. Besides one could say that during the fight Russ knocked him around displacing his butchers nails or something which leads to his remorse. Or that the Nails eventually overtake and kill him.

If you thought that was funny, check out my if HH was a barfight description I wrote a while ago.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/313389.page

Maybe do something along those lines lol.

 Crantor wrote:

 King Pariah wrote:
I kind of liked what Crantor said for the most part. A few things here and there disagreed with me but were stomachable but then I read this:

 Crantor wrote:


Angron becomes more unstable and his chapter as a whole is decreed sanctioned by the Lion. Russ faces him in combat and is slain by Angron. Struck by grief for his actions he takes his own life by falling on Russ' sword. His remaining world eaters follow in the ritual suicide.

And now I'm doing my best not to laugh out loud in the school library.

Meh. it's not like it happened. Besides one could say that during the fight Russ knocked him around displacing his butchers nails or something which leads to his remorse. Or that the Nails eventually overtake and kill him.

If you thought that was funny, check out my if HH was a barfight description I wrote a while ago.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/313389.page

Maybe do something along those lines lol.

haha now that barfight is awesome! hey, ever considered writing for Black library

 Crantor wrote:


The Necron awaken from their slumber but the Imperium with it's advancements made over 10 000 years are more than ready to deal with it.

or something like that...

Even with 10,000 with the Emperor alive, they'd have no way to deal with awakened Necrons. They can be dealt with on the ground, but it's unlikely the Imperium will ever develop ships capable of destroying them with less than a whole fleet ganging up on one ship.

 greyknight12 wrote:
The tau would be dead, a full-on crusade would have probably wiped them out back before they developed to their current level.

The Tau would probably not exist in the first place, because who ever engineered the Tau, probably did so as a contingency plan to the failing Imperium of Man (which presumably is failing as a result of the Heresy).

Dont know about the imperium but my pocket would be alot heavier and my wife happier!

 Blackhair Duckshape wrote:
A different set of primarchs realise that the emperor is nothing but a xenophobic despot and the HH happens anyway, this time by the name of: the Sanguinius Subversion, the Lion Liberation, the Madness of Magnus, the Khan Krusade, the Russ Reclamation, the Fulgrim Fallacy or maybe even the Angron Agitation.

Then the Tyranids eat everyone, the Necrons chase the Tyranids off and then give up on attaining apotheosis because "it's dumb and being a robot is totally cooler anyway."

No single Primarch other than Horus or Sanguinius had enough friends and sway to stage a revolt like the Heresy. And of the 2, more would have stayed loyal if Horus did, than would have turned because Sanguinius did.

Lion probably not.
Fulgrim respects their physical beauty but is closer to Horus.
Perturabo maybe.
Khan no.
Russ no.
Kurze likely.
Dorn no.
Manus no.
Angron maybe but he dislikes Sanguinius IIRC.
Guilliman no.
Mortarion no.
Magnus no.
Horus no.
Lorgar likely but if this is a second revolt to the non-existant HH, he is dead, killed by Horus when he tried to convert him.
Corax no.
Vulkan no.
Alpharius no.

No, but you see, the Necrons have totally mindshackled some of the primarchs to make them act less like social networking teenage girls and more like the hyper intelligent leaders that they are.

That way, they can ignore the fact that they aren't "super best friends" with the instigator of the rebellion and instead see that the Emperor is megalomaniacal hypocrite who needs to be put down.