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I have been out of the loop for a while and I have seen people keep saying Eldar are overpowered.

I have not played an eldar game for a while since the codex was released last summer.

Can I have an explanation of why?

Chiefly, lots of advantages with few drawbacks.

Wraithserpents put out high volumes of high S fire, normally twin linked, and a low cost (and as DTs don't take FOC slots)

Shuriken cats now get rending against infantry

Many infantry units can run and shoot.

Wraithknights are not über broken, but a highly mobile T8 heavy weapons platform which can be taken in multiples fairly easy @1500 pts

In a nutshell.

The Eldar codex is what every codex should be.

1) Pseudo rending on all basic troopers. Kill your teqs goodbye.

2) Wave Serpent is just insane. It's a fast skimmer that's AV 12/12/12/10 for starters. It doesn't take an FOC slot since it is dedicated transport. It has two heavy weapons, one of which is usually the scatter laser (which is broken in and of itself) which twin links all other weapons on the vehicle. Including the next part, the "shield". The "shield" in defensive mode makes all pens glances on a 2+, but WAIT! There's more! The "shield" can be fired as a "gun" out to 60", D6+1 shots, S7 AP - ignore cover. And it is usually TL from the scatter laser.

3) Jetseer council. The most broken of the broken. Usually accompanied by special guest star Baron for hit and run love. These babies pack insane movement with tons of psychic powers to be buffed out the wahzoo. Buffs you can't stop by the way, unless you are Space Cheese (Wolves). The murder anything they touch in CC because they themselves can't be killed and you can't get away because their movement is insane.

4) Wraithknight? It's actually fairly priced (sorta) for what it does, which is tame compared to the rest of the list. It's huge, has many wounds, is T8, has ranged ST 10 AP 1 instant death guns, but only a 3+ save. Manageable compared to the above factors.

5) D-scythes. S4 AP 2 flamers? On T6 models? Yup. All meqs and teqs kiss your ass goodbye.

6) War walkers. These things make every imperial heavy weapon platform look straight up slowed. This squad packs in six heavy weapons, 5++ invuln saves, and battle focus for now-I-see-you-to-shoot and now-you-don't-see-me-on-your-turn shenanigans. These things are point and shoot death.

7) Scatter lasers. The fact that these exist is insane. The are 36" assault cannons without any AP or rending, but are much cheaper and on better platforms. They are known for wound spamming pretty much anything with wounds to death from 36" away. Have a nice life with your crappy Imperial weapons because the Eldar have these babies.

Did I miss something? I'm sure I did in the awesomeness that is codex Eldar.

No, I'm not bitter at all.

they gave them a better ballistic skill, then gave them lots of twin linking, and then gave even more divination as a cherry on top, just to be sure...

Basically its people being cranky that Eldar went from 3rd rate whipping posts who had to take FW units to be halfway ok to now with their new dex they became one of the top 3 armies.

Eldar could win in 5th. They just had very few viable units. But the scatter laser was still broken as hell. If your Eldar players were whipping boys in 5th, they sucked as Eldar players. I saw space marine list after space marine list get mopped up by Seer councils and War walkers in 5th.

They are really good. I play them. The Wave Serpent thing is tough. However really they shine as anti air units and anti AV 12. They aren't all that great against any MEQ or better unit. The Serpent has no AP value to speak of in its best load out which is Scatter Laser/Shield/SC.
Don't let people fool you. The army/codex isn't good because of Wave Serpents. Its good because of the synergy between Troops/Fast Attack/Heavy and HQ. They each have great options. You almost can't go wrong making a list.
OP sure but no different then any army during their time on top. See also Tau, Daemons in 6th or Necrons and GK in 5th.
Its just their turn to be good.With that being said. If someone isn't playing cheese. Which honestly there only two true cheese things in the Codex. I say that knowing I'll get flamed for WS spam and WK spam but spam is spam its no different then it ever has been. Its beatable just hard to do so.
1. Mantle of the laughing god with a jet bike.
2. Jetseer which with psychic buffs you can get a rerollable 2+ save just like the Mantle above.
These two things are true cheese because there isnt a real way to deal with them besides ignore cover weapons and they are still hard to kill.

There shouldn't be "top" armies, but that's another can of worms.

For the OP, the Eldar are totally OP.

This again?

 Zakiriel wrote:
Basically its people being cranky that Eldar went from 3rd rate whipping posts who had to take FW units to be halfway ok to now with their new dex they became one of the top 3 armies.

Halfway ok?

 Zakiriel wrote:
Basically its people being cranky that Eldar went from 3rd rate whipping posts who had to take FW units to be halfway ok to now with their new dex they became one of the top 3 armies.

I'd say this is a rather short term memory problem. Eldar were "sub-optimal" for all of a couple years, the last half of fifth mainly. They are astounding now. They were very usable in the first half of fifth. They were the top dog of the last half of 4th and one of the top in the first half. They were likewise one of the top armies of 3rd edition. In 2nd edition they were broken beyond anything imaginable today.

Eldar have, aside from the short sprint in 5th, always been one of, it not the, most powerful armies in the game.

Now, if we were talking about IG or DE in 5th, armies that had gone never been particularly good until then, you might have a point. But Eldar? They've been probably the most loved army in terms of power level throughout 40k's history (in terms of consistency of power level of each book they've had).

 MRPYM wrote:
I have been out of the loop for a while and I have seen people keep saying Eldar are overpowered.

I have not played an eldar game for a while since the codex was released last summer.

Can I have an explanation of why?

Excellent and plentiful psychic support that augments already very capable firepower, Wave Serpents that can put out a tremendous amount of very accurate firepower and remain very difficult to kill even in the open, ability to ally in very powerful allies that they can further synergize with, etc.

In their defense the most advanced oldest race in the galaxy should be OP.

 lobbywatson wrote:
In their defense the most advanced oldest race in the galaxy should be OP.

They're also a dying race where each casualty is a critical loss...

Nobody *should* be OP, that's why we have points to assign value to units. Otherwise, why would you play anything but the OP race?

 lobbywatson wrote:
In their defense the most advanced oldest race in the galaxy should be OP.

I know someone will say "Draigo's Law!" but... Matt Ward gave the same exact excuse about why Chaos Daemons were broken in fantasy. He got so much gak for it and for good reason. It's a dumb excuse since the story should serve the game, not the other way around.

And yes, Eldar are overpowered especially if you run Marines. It seems that Mr. Kelly either really, really, really hates Space Marines or he really, really, really, really, really, really loves Eldar. Probably both.

Martel732 wrote:


2) Wave Serpent is just insane. It's a fast skimmer that's AV 12/12/12/10 for starters. It doesn't take an FOC slot since it is dedicated transport. It has two heavy weapons, one of which is usually the scatter laser (which is broken in and of itself) which twin links all other weapons on the vehicle. Including the next part, the "shield". The "shield" in defensive mode makes all pens glances on a 2+, but WAIT! There's more! The "shield" can be fired as a "gun" out to 60", D6+1 shots, S7 AP - ignore cover. And it is usually TL from the scatter laser.

You forgot holofields and ghostwalk matrices for improved cover saves and ignoring dangerous terrain tests. It only has one heavy weapon stock. The extra cannon has to be paid for. The stock shuricats are already twinlinked, but only have 12" range. As commonly configured with shuricannon, holofields, and ghostwalk it runs 155 points.

3) Jetseer council. The most broken of the broken. Usually accompanied by special guest star Baron for hit and run love. These babies pack insane movement with tons of psychic powers to be buffed out the wahzoo. Buffs you can't stop by the way, unless you are Space Cheese (Wolves). The murder anything they touch in CC because they themselves can't be killed and you can't get away because their movement is insane.

Good at killing vehicles with singing spears (S9), but otherwise don't do alot of damage because of few attacks and Ap -. Depends on buffs from LD8, 1-wound psykers with random powers. Also dependent on Fortune. Without Fortune this unit folds. Only really a problem because of allied DE Baron for 2++ shadowfield to tank wounds. Biggest threat is being able to starburst at game end to contest multiple objectives with 48" moves.

4) Wraithknight? It's actually fairly priced (sorta) for what it does, which is tame compared to the rest of the list. It's huge, has many wounds, is T8, has ranged ST 10 AP 1 instant death guns, but only a 3+ save. Manageable compared to the above factors.

S10 gun only causes instant death on a wound roll of 6. Of course S10 tends to ID a lot of things anyway...

5) D-scythes. S4 AP 2 flamers? On T6 models? Yup. All meqs and teqs kiss your ass goodbye.

Costs 210 for a unit of 5. Add 90 points to make them scoring. Next to useless without a transport to get them into template range.

6) War walkers. These things make every imperial heavy weapon platform look straight up slowed. This squad packs in six heavy weapons, 5++ invuln saves, and battle focus for now-I-see-you-to-shoot and now-you-don't-see-me-on-your-turn shenanigans. These things are point and shoot death.

AV10, open-topped, 2 hull points. Die to bolters, fleshborers, pulse rifles, kroot rifles, heavy bolters, assault cannons, autocannons, lascannons, melta guns, krak grenades, cluster spines, flesh hooks, heavy flamers, plasma guns, devourers, sluggas, big shootas, deff guns, snazzguns, rokkits, psycannons, missile launchers, plasma cannons, battle cannons, shredders, blasters, lances, all tesla, all gauss etc etc. Only really safe from grot blastas and lasguns.

7) Scatter lasers. The fact that these exist is insane. The are 36" assault cannons without any AP or rending, but are much cheaper and on better platforms. They are known for wound spamming pretty much anything with wounds to death from 36" away. Have a nice life with your crappy Imperial weapons because the Eldar have these babies.

S6 Ap6. 20 points. TL Assault cannons on a razorback also cost 20 points.

TheCustomLime
And yes, Eldar are overpowered especially if you run Marines. It seems that Mr. Kelly either really, really, really hates Space Marines or he really, really, really, really, really, really loves Eldar. Probably both.

There is a lot of truth in this I think!

 Arschbombe wrote:

Martel732 wrote:


2) Wave Serpent is just insane. It's a fast skimmer that's AV 12/12/12/10 for starters. It doesn't take an FOC slot since it is dedicated transport. It has two heavy weapons, one of which is usually the scatter laser (which is broken in and of itself) which twin links all other weapons on the vehicle. Including the next part, the "shield". The "shield" in defensive mode makes all pens glances on a 2+, but WAIT! There's more! The "shield" can be fired as a "gun" out to 60", D6+1 shots, S7 AP - ignore cover. And it is usually TL from the scatter laser.

You forgot holofields and ghostwalk matrices for improved cover saves and ignoring dangerous terrain tests. It only has one heavy weapon stock. The extra cannon has to be paid for. The stock shuricats are already twinlinked, but only have 12" range. As commonly configured with shuricannon, holofields, and ghostwalk it runs 155 points.

3) Jetseer council. The most broken of the broken. Usually accompanied by special guest star Baron for hit and run love. These babies pack insane movement with tons of psychic powers to be buffed out the wahzoo. Buffs you can't stop by the way, unless you are Space Cheese (Wolves). The murder anything they touch in CC because they themselves can't be killed and you can't get away because their movement is insane.

Good at killing vehicles with singing spears (S9), but otherwise don't do alot of damage because of few attacks and Ap -. Depends on buffs from LD8, 1-wound psykers with random powers. Also dependent on Fortune. Without Fortune this unit folds. Only really a problem because of allied DE Baron for 2++ shadowfield to tank wounds. Biggest threat is being able to starburst at game end to contest multiple objectives with 48" moves.

4) Wraithknight? It's actually fairly priced (sorta) for what it does, which is tame compared to the rest of the list. It's huge, has many wounds, is T8, has ranged ST 10 AP 1 instant death guns, but only a 3+ save. Manageable compared to the above factors.

S10 gun only causes instant death on a wound roll of 6. Of course S10 tends to ID a lot of things anyway...

5) D-scythes. S4 AP 2 flamers? On T6 models? Yup. All meqs and teqs kiss your ass goodbye.

Costs 210 for a unit of 5. Add 90 points to make them scoring. Next to useless without a transport to get them into template range.

6) War walkers. These things make every imperial heavy weapon platform look straight up slowed. This squad packs in six heavy weapons, 5++ invuln saves, and battle focus for now-I-see-you-to-shoot and now-you-don't-see-me-on-your-turn shenanigans. These things are point and shoot death.

AV10, open-topped, 2 hull points. Die to bolters, fleshborers, pulse rifles, kroot rifles, heavy bolters, assault cannons, autocannons, lascannons, melta guns, krak grenades, cluster spines, flesh hooks, heavy flamers, plasma guns, devourers, sluggas, big shootas, deff guns, snazzguns, rokkits, psycannons, missile launchers, plasma cannons, battle cannons, shredders, blasters, lances, all tesla, all gauss etc etc. Only really safe from grot blastas and lasguns.

7) Scatter lasers. The fact that these exist is insane. The are 36" assault cannons without any AP or rending, but are much cheaper and on better platforms. They are known for wound spamming pretty much anything with wounds to death from 36" away. Have a nice life with your crappy Imperial weapons because the Eldar have these babies.

S6 Ap6. 20 points. TL Assault cannons on a razorback also cost 20 points.

I didn't know they had so many drawbacks... hopefully they get some dataslates or something to buff them soon...

 lobbywatson wrote:
In their defense the most advanced oldest race in the galaxy should be OP.

Necrons?

 lobbywatson wrote:
In their defense the most advanced oldest race in the galaxy should be OP.

Eldar may lay claim to be the second most advanced if you count the DE with them (otherwise DE are second and Eldar are third), but fluffwise they aren't anywhere near as technologically advanced as the Necrons.

And tyranids are much older then all of them. If they ate galaxies before the w40k one , then they either went and won or at least survived a few end game situations . Age wise they should be playing wX00k

Makumba wrote:
And tyranids are much older then all of them. If they ate galaxies before the w40k one , then they either went and won or at least survived a few end game situations . Age wise they should be playing wX00k

What makes you think Tyranids are older? Necrons were a galaxy spanning empire over 60 million years ago.

Besides, Tyranids don't have technology in the conventional sense, so the comparison is rather pointless to begin with...

Tyranids took part in "wars" like we have in w40k right now and won . They already ate galaxies , which had their own empires . They , at least in fluff, evolved above outside source technology.
In the w40k univers the only race that can do warp jump unaided are the enslavers and they can do it only , because warp is the ecosystem they were born in .

Makumba wrote:
Tyranids took part in "wars" like we have in w40k right now and won . They already ate galaxies , which had their own empires . They , at least in fluff, evolved above outside source technology.
In the w40k univers the only race that can do warp jump unaided are the enslavers and they can do it only , because warp is the ecosystem they were born in .

If you really want to go down this path, I could just start categorically detailing how Tyranid biotech is inferior to Necron technology in practically each and every field they cared to research.

Sure go on . The necron pre new dex had a draw against another uber race . Their new fluff lets them use the power of gravity to blow up their own gods . Sure that is impressive , but even when they won , they weren't able to finish everyone off. Nids finished everyone in their own galaxy and then did it a few times again in other galaxies . Necrons to top that would have to do the same and then go to warp and kick all the warp entities living there in the nads.
If it wasn't for old ones web ways necrons wouldn't be even able to go around at all .

 Vaktathi wrote:
Nobody *should* be OP, that's why we have points to assign value to units. Otherwise, why would you play anything but the OP race?

This is only important if you are considering a competitive environment like a tournament. Otherwise, you should be forging a narrative.

Cheers!

 Zakiriel wrote:
Basically its people being cranky that Eldar went from 3rd rate whipping posts who had to take FW units to be halfway ok to now with their new dex they became one of the top 3 armies.

Basically its between people wanting a fun game and seeing issues with them that need fixing (wave serpents, Seer Councils as primary) and a few peopledefending them who want the I win codex.................simple really.

Which are you?

Grim Dark wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Nobody *should* be OP, that's why we have points to assign value to units. Otherwise, why would you play anything but the OP race?

This is only important if you are considering a competitive environment like a tournament. Otherwise, you should be forging a narrative.

Cheers!

I have never once played a "forge the narrative" game in 20 years of 40K. I didn't know this GW drivel ever happened until I got on here.

Where's the narrative that the Eldar are supposed to lose once in a while?

 Arschbombe wrote:

5) D-scythes. S4 AP 2 flamers? On T6 models? Yup. All meqs and teqs kiss your ass goodbye.

Costs 210 for a unit of 5. Add 90 points to make them scoring. Next to useless without a transport to get them into template range.

Spiritseer is only 70 points.

But yeah, the transport point is a good one. With a fast, resilent vehicle with firepower, they would be really good.

A shame that Eldar don't have a tank like that...

Eldar are not OP.

They are a very cool army tbh, when it comes down to it.

"Wave Serpent spam" is OP.

The difference? the army as a whole has a lot of cool stuff in it and has potential for a nice flexibility and cool fielding army, however people love to abuse poorly written rules (awaiting my box of soap for my opinion) and therefore we get stuff like Wave Serpent spam and Jetseer councils and the Famous Tau-Dar and the lists are OP, not the army.

Once people fight these OP lists they then scream that the whole army is OP because they got the unfortunate end of the stick, and have not had enough games to fight a variety of Eldar lists, but then again how can they when everyone will use the same old bland lists, and so the never ending circle keeps on spinning..