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Huh.

I don't see any shills here! I never thought to bother checking MM out for Super Dungeon stuff.

Prices aren't too bad.

Might just get me a few missing pieces for my collection then.

Thanks for the heads up!

Yeah, I straight up pulled prices of MM. I know I can reliably get the core set from ebay with free shipping for around 70$ish.

This is something that kills me is when a KS is 'MSRP of all the swag is 400$' when no one pays MSRP at retail. US domestic people get a MINIMUM of 20% off and free shipping for bulk orders from lots of retailers. So for me, 20% and free shipping is the GROUND FLOOR for comparing prices for US people.

I don't think this is a BAD deal... I will be backing this fully. But right now, it is basically 'retail' prices... I only wish I was paying RETAIL prices right now and had my green monsters on my table like was kinda expected from the past 8 months of teasing.

The main thing which is gonna hurt, is international people who get a CRAZY deal would be incentivized to back as for 30-40$ shipping they would be getting 100$ of extra value. That is simply not there (yet). Since KS releases usually are hitting retail pretty fast after backers get theirs, and international people are often delayed getting KS anyways, There may not be a reason to back and just wait for retail.

I like the models, and the game. I would be happy to pay 100$ for that, but people want 'more' from KSs. We will see how this grows. I would be surprised if they had more up their sleeve.

Even with potential shipping hits it's probably worth it for international backers as SDE has been a pain to get hold of, and certainly not much discounted

but we'll see (the thought that they don't have an MRSP in mind, and think the might have it lower than the $100 SDE is now is a bit worrying)

I think they hit the mark with the base pledge. They put just enough discount on it so you won't be "better off" as a customer of an online retailer a few months down the road as compared to being a backer this month. That is a good starting point. The stretch goals can add value and pull in the people who want more.

I'd be happy enough paying close to retail (after shipping costs and potential VAT are included)- retail based on European prices not based on US prices as most prices in dollars end up being a 1 for 1 conversion into Euro (i'd still like a small discount or bonus stuff for backing 6 months plus early) given how hard SDE can be to get and the hassle of ordering from mutliple places - speaking of which.

Stretch goals offered through this kickstarter, depending on how far we fund, will be a mix of online only products, and in-store packaged supplements.

So some stuff while not exclusive will only ever be available direct from SPM.

the Arcade deck is used as the primary driver of monster actions in Arcade mode, our new Coop game play mode, with the Explore deck being used to actually adventure and explore the dungeon, as rooms will and should have different aspects and effects in them - some awesome for the heroes.. and some ... not so much

 DaveC wrote:

the Arcade deck is used as the primary driver of monster actions in Arcade mode, our new Coop game play mode, with the Explore deck being used to actually adventure and explore the dungeon, as rooms will and should have different aspects and effects in them - some awesome for the heroes.. and some ... not so much

Sounds cool. I am not going to say this is 'copying' off anyone because I feel like a ton of games in a short period of time all kinda reached the same concept of deck-based AI and deck-based quests around the same time, independently... No one was clearly the originator of this design and they all slightly different. It is a good mechanic which works IMHO. I think it is cool there will be both monster AI and environment stuff.

The main thing that makes me hesitant with this game is that they keep saying it has a limited scope. Them saying that direct only figures as stretch goals has me questioning, what direct only figures? All the bosses they've released have been sold by retailers. I think them adding "gangs" as add-ons to drum up extra money is fine, but not as stretch goals to unlock buying them.

I'll be comparing this KS to CMONs AQ. They've unlocked a full supplement, 15 extra heroes, 5 heroes you can buy, physical 3D pieces to replace their cardboard tokens AND a box to put all the extra in. TFK is essentially starting at the exact same offering as AQ did, minus heroes. With them espousing this "limited scope" approach though, I see them having a finite amount of good goals, with the rest being fluff filler stuff like Mantic panders out. Oh, for $10k we'll write a 10 page story of how awesome our game is. Their main competitor, CMON, has pretty effectively set the bar with their AQ campaign. 98% of everyone posting in this thread owns/likes SDE already. While I haven't gotten the other expansions, I have owned SDE from the beginning, but the play style just wasn't as much fun as I thought it was going to be. I hope the co-op is good, as that will make this a fun family game without punishing one person as the DM. But they really need to pull out the wow, and early. I am really interested to see what they set their initial funding goal at.

I will be tracking this one, waiting to see if they really shine, or if there really isn't any improvement over their other offerings.

 Salacious Greed wrote:
The main thing that makes me hesitant with this game is that they keep saying it has a limited scope. Them saying that direct only figures as stretch goals has me questioning, what direct only figures? All the bosses they've released have been sold by retailers. I think them adding "gangs" as add-ons to drum up extra money is fine, but not as stretch goals to unlock buying them.

Retailers get an initial supply of all SDE stuff, but after that runs out some of the heroes are only available direct from SPM. At least, that's how I think it works.

Miniature Market and Warstore both have Cpt. R and Kaelly. MM even have all the other "special editions" including vandella, herald of vulcanis, and nyan nyan.

I am not convinced these are special or exclusive at all.

What Dentry Said.

At the very least you can only get the original Candy & Cola and the new larger resin King Starfire straight from Soda Pop.

SPM FB: "Stretch goals offered through this kickstarter, depending on how far we fund, will be a mix of online only products, and in-store packaged supplements."

So about how many figures can I proxy with the update cards? I have a boxful of Homestarr Runner figures I haven't done anything with...

I think this campaign is a subtle push towards new gamers, such as BGG. They're keeping things simple, casual backers *hate* EB's, no exclusives means people who didn't back may still purchase after retail, and the "free" upgrade cards encourage new players to buy the previous expansion sets.

EDIT: How do I get the update cards if I don't pledge for this KS?

Oh, and Amazon sells SDE for $70.

 Dais wrote:
Miniature Market and Warstore both have Cpt. R and Kaelly. MM even have all the other "special editions" including vandella, herald of vulcanis, and nyan nyan.

I am not convinced these are special or exclusive at all.

Funny you should mention that, just yesterday I was considering buying Kaelly so checked The Warstore and didn't see any other hero except Captain R.

Miniature Market, however, does have them all in stock. Thanks for pointing that out! Gonna have to grab some of those.

Maybe they just haven't run through their stock?

Thanks guys, just bought all the limited ones in MM as well.

Soon...

A quick announcement - just a few more hours till we launch the Forgotten King kickstarter for Super Dungeon Explore. You have all been so patient. .. prepare yourselves, for the Forgotten King!

Thank you again to all of you for your support. This will mark our first venture on our own, and we need your help!

Midnight start perhaps? less than 6 hours away.

EDIT before 8PM Pacific standard time according to FB (which is 4AM GMT)

Just a few of us hopping on a plane right now for a trade show, we just got the alert, and hope to have it up before 8PM pacific standard time

No EB tiers, one tier, no exclusives, but some cool stuff planned, and some great giveaways!

So sometime in the next 3.5hrs.

I am looking forward to this one, although I'm still uncertain that I'll go through to the end on backing depending on how the offering shapes up versus buying at retail.

If nothing else, I can practice my Azazelx-fu by talking of pulling my pledge every so often.

That's a joke Az, please don't randomly select one of your nearby 15k poisonous creatures to mail to me...

Yay! Was hoping it would start today!

Something to tide me over until Darklands at least!

They made a comment on their forums which makes it sound like they don't intend to let things 'run away' on them.

we have learned a lot being poked and driven by others to expand our projects beyond scope chasing money. We dont want to do business that way - it is our personal ethos, and those that know us, know that we want everyone that can, to enjoy the benefit of a program like this, so, for that, we believe that we can bring everyone new and special content - having a Kickstarter supported by so many wonderful and thoughtful fans and friends is a privilege that we don't want to abuse like we see in so many other "racing" campaigns. We have set what we believe is a realistic scope to deliver this project in a timely manner, if we fund well, we can push forward more concepts and content that we have had sitting on the shelf simply waiting for the capital needed to manufacture - which is better for the entire community, and all our players. And for our products, we want the best quality we can deliver - so, no flea market products with wilting cardboard and shoddy miniatures... we are getting out on our own, because we are Soda Pop Miniatures, and that means something to us.

I think that the expansions beyond the core they have offered will be limited, and the stretch goals will be spread out and reasonable. You won't see 100$ pledge gets you 273$ of product retail! LOLZ! 112 models! or other things.

I would not be upset to get the current launch for 100$ and that is it. It is slightly better than retail, I just wish it was retail *NOW* and not 6 months from now. Even AQ put the breaks on their own campaign and decided 'we got enough money to get us to retail, we will wait for retail for the rest of the profit'. With the change in KS campaigns where companies almost go broke fulfilling and become addicted to KS funding in almost a Ponzi-scheme-like business model, I think it will be good to see a company which really does a small, solid launch and hopefully turns it into retail releases afterwards.

Well hopefully they're as generous as they can get away with being...

I bought the first print of the original SDE core box, which had the notorious assembly issues. I was so horrified that I sold it off and never looked back, while harboring a desire all the while to get into the game.

I was hoping this KS would be a big "relaunch" of sorts and a generous Kickstarter is a great way to separate me from my funds quickly. :-p

I'd recommend anyone backing this take a look at Ninja Divisions work on Robotech, the production quality of the sculpts are terrible, and very late.

I haven't had any issue with any of the stuff they've put out for SDE so far (although I did get a later print run of SDE) my only real gripe is that the later minis are preassembled and glued to the base so they require deconstruction to paint but I understand why they did it to cater to the board game crowd. Chibi minis tend to be a lot simpler as well so harder to mess up (Though not impossible) I had a look at some of the Robotech stuff and man some of the kits have a huge amount if parts.

Joyboozer wrote:
I'd recommend anyone backing this take a look at Ninja Divisions work on Robotech, the production quality of the sculpts are terrible, and very late.

Not to forget Relic Knights

Skorne wrote:

Joyboozer wrote:
I'd recommend anyone backing this take a look at Ninja Divisions work on Robotech, the production quality of the sculpts are terrible, and very late.

Not to forget Relic Knights

Their newer prototypes look much better. No idea about robotech but a lot of people seem to complain about it.

Robotech is coming up on a year since the campaign closed, sculpts looking horrible from an assembly point of view, condescension from the creators, silence from Soda Pop / Ninja Division since the campaign ended (they were very chatty and nice during the campaign) and not a single mold made with only 2 or three models shown off and even then they are at protoype-ing stage.

Remember this was the game that backers were assured by Palladium Games & SodaPop / Ninja Division, was supposed to go into production 45 days from May 21st last year.

TBH, I think Robotech is a poor comparison: SDE doesn't have to go through 2 additional approval processes to get anything done.

I was about to say the same thing- there's a lot less hoops to jump through, even more so than with Relic Knights.

Sodapop gets to call the shots this time. Since it's going to be affecting their bottom dollar, maybe we might see it get wrapped up a bit quicker?

 Cyporiean wrote:
TBH, I think Robotech is a poor comparison: SDE doesn't have to go through 2 additional approval processes to get anything done.

True and I accept that but the models which are the responsibility of ND/SP are piss poor. Just see the last two updates in the Robotech Kickstarter for the storm that's exploded over there.

One question on that point: Is it fair to be using Soda Pop and Ninja Division interchangeably? I've not delved into that relationship too deeply, but it does seems to me like they are separate entities who happen to be related. Much more along the lines of ForgeWorld (who know how resin works) and Games Workshop (who clearly don't) than Citadel and Games Workshop which are functionally one and the same. At least that's how it reads to me, but as I mentioned I'm ignorant on the subject. That IS a matter of interest to anyone on this campaign.

Relic Knights was definitely on them, but Robotech seems much more like a "blame to go around" situation.

Ninja Division scares me.

Relic Knights delivery issues bothers and annoys me.

I will *NOT* trust *ANY* concept art from Sodapop on this campaign as none of the Relic Knights SDE Chibis match their art, and some were drastically different. (and we haven't gotten them yet)

As for SDE quality, VON DRAKK was much better in detail and casting compared to the two previous. NyanNyan and Captain R were both really nice quality. I am not worried about quality, and I can muddle through assembly issues, but it is a concern.

Basically, I am backing this for the same reason I backed AQ. I collect these kind of models and I want these models, so even if they screw up or are late or have other issues, I will accept it in order to get these models. I wouldn't recommend the risk to people who are not already 'All In' and will stomach the issues we may see with all involved parties.