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Skorne wrote:

 Cyporiean wrote:
TBH, I think Robotech is a poor comparison: SDE doesn't have to go through 2 additional approval processes to get anything done.

True and I accept that but the models which are the responsibility of ND/SP are piss poor. Just see the last two updates in the Robotech Kickstarter for the storm that's exploded over there.

Palladium is also a company known to completely redo stuff handed in by Freelancers, and screw it up in the process. I get the feeling that even if it was Paulson doing it they'd still manage to screw things up for him.

Krinsath wrote:One question on that point: Is it fair to be using Soda Pop and Ninja Division interchangeably?

Ninja Division is made up of people from Sodapop & Cipher Studios (Helldorado, Anima Tactics), they share some staff so blame gets shared between them regardless of to what degree it should be.

we have learned a lot being poked and driven by others to expand our projects beyond scope chasing money. We dont want to do business that way - it is our personal ethos, and those that know us, know that we want everyone that can, to enjoy the benefit of a program like this, so, for that, we believe that we can bring everyone new and special content - having a Kickstarter supported by so many wonderful and thoughtful fans and friends is a privilege that we don't want to abuse like we see in so many other "racing" campaigns. We have set what we believe is a realistic scope to deliver this project in a timely manner, if we fund well, we can push forward more concepts and content that we have had sitting on the shelf simply waiting for the capital needed to manufacture - which is better for the entire community, and all our players. And for our products, we want the best quality we can deliver - so, no flea market products with wilting cardboard and shoddy miniatures... we are getting out on our own, because we are Soda Pop Miniatures, and that means something to us.

These guys crack me up. I understand having some self-belief, but don't they recognize how poor their public image is right now? Their association with CMON made them more legitimate. Their break from CMON actually makes me concerned, and question if they'll be able to find their own with both hands...

 Salacious Greed wrote:

we have learned a lot being poked and driven by others to expand our projects beyond scope chasing money. We dont want to do business that way - it is our personal ethos, and those that know us, know that we want everyone that can, to enjoy the benefit of a program like this, so, for that, we believe that we can bring everyone new and special content - having a Kickstarter supported by so many wonderful and thoughtful fans and friends is a privilege that we don't want to abuse like we see in so many other "racing" campaigns. We have set what we believe is a realistic scope to deliver this project in a timely manner, if we fund well, we can push forward more concepts and content that we have had sitting on the shelf simply waiting for the capital needed to manufacture - which is better for the entire community, and all our players. And for our products, we want the best quality we can deliver - so, no flea market products with wilting cardboard and shoddy miniatures... we are getting out on our own, because we are Soda Pop Miniatures, and that means something to us.

These guys crack me up. I understand having some self-belief, but don't they recognize how poor their public image is right now? Their association with CMON made them more legitimate. Their break from CMON actually makes me concerned, and question if they'll be able to find their own with both hands...

They are lowering expectations and preemptively telling everyone why a lower total than AQ and Mantic Dreadball Extreme and a lower 'perceived' value is a 'Good thing' (tm) because the impression they are making is those other companies race for high totals and sacrifice quality and customer experience in the name of high totals.

This is why I don't think we will see 200$ MSRP worth of stuff for 100$. We are around 110$ of merch if bought at a discounter reseller at retail. So we have a slight discount. We may see a little more but I don't expect to see 75-100$ more of product added to this base pledge.

We will see how it works for them and what we actually get. I would hand them 125$ right now if they had all this on the SPM store right now. That is their fatal flaw, instead of begging for KS money, they could have just made this stuff and sold it and everyone would have paid for it.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1257458293/super-dungeon-explore-forgotten-king

Darn, I wasn't even one of the first hundred!

Also: Super Dungeon Explore Legends?

Wonder what that will be about...

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Darn, I wasn't even one of the first hundred!

Also: Super Dungeon Explore Legends?

Wonder what that will be about...

It appears to be campaign rules (oft asked for on the Soda Pop forums). They sure launched it at an odd time.

Dec 2014 is the delivery date.

Any mistake means they'll run into Chinese New Year again.

Oi vey.

So realistically, we will be lucky to have it by Q2 2015. Which means two years from Von drakk.

If they were smart, the new rules and backwards compatibility packs should be released as fast as possible to keep people playing SDE. 3 decks of cards and an electronic rulebook should be all we need to play with current models.

They can't slip by one single day with a 9 month expected turn around for something which we were told 8 months ago would be launched and available at retail "today".

Ugh, another shipping is a mystery amount KS -_-

Sining wrote:
Ugh, another shipping is a mystery amount KS -_-

All KS will be doing this. Promising rates for unknown size and weight deliveries 9 months from now has been financial suicide for many KS.

 Salacious Greed wrote:

we have learned a lot being poked and driven by others to expand our projects beyond scope chasing money. We dont want to do business that way - it is our personal ethos, and those that know us, know that we want everyone that can, to enjoy the benefit of a program like this, so, for that, we believe that we can bring everyone new and special content - having a Kickstarter supported by so many wonderful and thoughtful fans and friends is a privilege that we don't want to abuse like we see in so many other "racing" campaigns. We have set what we believe is a realistic scope to deliver this project in a timely manner, if we fund well, we can push forward more concepts and content that we have had sitting on the shelf simply waiting for the capital needed to manufacture - which is better for the entire community, and all our players. And for our products, we want the best quality we can deliver - so, no flea market products with wilting cardboard and shoddy miniatures... we are getting out on our own, because we are Soda Pop Miniatures, and that means something to us.

These guys crack me up. I understand having some self-belief, but don't they recognize how poor their public image is right now? Their association with CMON made them more legitimate. Their break from CMON actually makes me concerned, and question if they'll be able to find their own with both hands...

Are they trying to give their side of the story in a subtle manner with the whole conundrum that is Relic Knights?


I do have to wonder with their falling out with CMON, how much exp. do they have with dealing with Chinese manufacturing on their own? I don't know their entire history. Was the first DE produced by themselves or with CMON's aid?

nkelsch wrote:


They can't slip by one single day with a 9 month expected turn around for something which we were told 8 months ago would be launched and available at retail "today".

The box they had planned on launching 8 months ago was not a new edition for the rules nor a starter product. At the time they gave that date Forgotten King was meant to be a normal expansion like Von Drakk. They changed their plans some time last winter.

And it didn't fund in less than an hour. Surprising.

The CMoN bashing has already begun in the comments. Distasteful.

Interested in these Legends rules.

One of the backers doing that was kicked off Arcadia Quest for slagging off CMoN in the comments there, kickstarter deleted all of their comments it looks like he'll stir up some trouble again if he can (although doesn't appear to have started it didn't need a second invite) he is well known for being anti CMoN he has even changed his backer name to try and hide his identity.

Anyway I hope people leave that be if neither party is going to talk about it its best to focus on the project at hand.


I see the end date is the day before Mercs Recon

 cincydooley wrote:
And it didn't fund in less than an hour. Surprising.

Not really - no Early Bird speculators, launching at a weird hour, and setting an actual goal amount (i.e. not a fake $5,000 or something). It's about 2/3rds of the way there already anyway.

It's more interesting to see if this will actually have stretch goals. From the page, it doesn't seem so, which means it's kinda meh.

Also, would have been more interested if they let us add-on existing expansions/stuff/minibosses to the pledge amt

Sining wrote:
It's more interesting to see if this will actually have stretch goals. From the page, it doesn't seem so, which means it's kinda meh.

Also, would have been more interested if they let us add-on existing expansions/stuff/minibosses to the pledge amt

Are we really reaching the point where campaigns have to have stretch goals revealed before they're even funded?

As to the second question, I'll refer you to bulletin #3: https://www.kickstarter.com/help/prohibited

~iPaint

Sining wrote:
It's more interesting to see if this will actually have stretch goals. From the page, it doesn't seem so, which means it's kinda meh.

Also, would have been more interested if they let us add-on existing expansions/stuff/minibosses to the pledge amt

They will/do have stretch goals. And quite a fair of bit of them it seems.

Just posted this little map:


So up first is pets, and then a second mage of some sort! There's at least 10 stretch goals - but since the dotted line extends off the image, so I imagine they have a second one ready if need be.

#3 has been circumvented so many times, I'm surprised people still bring it up. How many times has Mantic sold previous stock before? I remember zombicides2 seemed to offer previously available zombicide dice as well.

Also, stretch goals would help me consider whether I want to back since the current pledge level is kinda meh to me. There's not much discount on shipping which means I might as well wait for it to appear on MMs daily deal

selling dice as part of the board game seems to be a breach of the Kickstarter rules.

Mantic selling off old product does seem to be guilty of that.



Though I am not kickstarting this, that map thing is cool, loved it when Reaper did it.

Are you sure the dotted line doesn't just disappear into Chinese New Year?

The new heroes look to be a step-up in power from the last few expansions. They all have at least a 2x Red-dice base offensive ability. And 3x Blue armour.

Thundervale Huntress already looks to be one of the best. She has higher attack than Angry Bear! with probably the best AoE in the game. Along with reach 2, movement 8, decent Armour and Will. She's gonna be devastating to lowly mooks like Cobalds. Guess it makes up for looking like MLP.

Questing Knight look very good too. He's a got a decent variety of special attacks, and is likely never going to die once he gets an armour upgrade.

Princess Emerald looks almost identical to the Hexcast Sorceress, just with will/dex reversed. Yet she also has Subduing Shot, which is quite a big attack. So she's probably more useful than Hexcast.

Can't really say much about Fae Alchemist without knowing what Alchemy and Experimental Concoction does (hopefully something good that gets her more potions). At least she has decent stats anyway. So If nothing else, she can nuke 3 mooks per day with her 2 red dice and Magic 4.

 Smacks wrote:
The new heroes look to be a step-up in power from the last few expansions. They all have at least a 2x Red-dice base offensive ability. And 3x Blue armour.

Thundervale Huntress already looks to be one of the best. She has higher attack than Angry Bear! with probably the best AoE in the game. Along with reach 2, movement 8, decent Armour and Will. She's gonna be devastating to lowly mooks like Cobalds. Guess it makes up for looking like MLP.

Questing Knight look very good too. He's a got a decent variety of special attacks, and is likely never going to die once he gets an armour upgrade.

Princess Emerald looks almost identical to the Hexcast Sorceress, just with will/dex reversed. Yet she also has Subduing Shot, which is quite a big attack. So she's probably more useful than Hexcast.

Can't really say much about Fae Alchemist without knowing what Alchemy and Experimental Concoction does (hopefully something good that gets her more potions). At least she has decent stats anyway. So If nothing else, she can nuke 3 mooks per day with her 2 red dice and Magic 4.

They did say they are rebalancing every thing, hence the new stat cards. So the new heroes are probably not directly comparable to the olds one, yet.

Not a bad deal for those in the USA

Ok for those in the EU only if they manage to arrange shipping from an EU site to avoid us having to pay 20% extra in VAT plus a handling charge (hopefully as they get more backers it will make financial sense for them to do this)

one to keep an eye on but not dive straight in to

Oh and I hope they show at least some of the Arcade mode/co-op rules as I'd like to see how solo play friendly they are

Crap, my daughter saw it, now I'm a backer.
I have serious concerns regarding these guys, having backed Relic Knigts.

I do like the KS structure on this, only one pledge level at $100, then a few add-ons.

Nice and simple when a lot of campaigns are loaded with early birds, time-limited pledges and KS exclusives.

I guess the main thing keeping me away from this is the tales of the first boxed set being a nightmare/ almost impossible to assemble and clean.

Well, that and mystery shipping fees/ mystery customs fees kills it dead for non-US backers. I don't think many US-based kickstarters are actually interested in pursuing international markets anymore after the USPS shipping hike. $40 shipping and $30 customs on a $100 board game = Big Fat Nope.

The centaur hero is very cool, though!

 scarletsquig wrote:
I guess the main thing keeping me away from this is the tales of the first boxed set being a nightmare/ almost impossible to assemble and clean.

I picked up one of the first boxed sets. And I read the first scathing review online, by the guy who couldn't assemble his dragon. It's a shame because I think that one review put more people off the game than anything else, yet it was largely nonsense. The guy declared himself and his friends to be 'experienced modelers', yet none of them seemed to know that it is fairly normal for resin parts to warp during production, and that dipping them in a drop of hot water is all you need to put them right. I've had the same thing with Fantasy Flight games (one of my CoT pieces was bent right over on her base like a limbo dancer), also had bent parts happen with Claustrophobia.

Everything since then for SDE has come pre-assembled, this almost certainly will too. Personally I'd rather get the bits, as it's easier to clean and paint and base models that I assemble myself. Though it is nice to be able to play things straight out the box too.

this set is preassembled. its in the details of what comes in the box.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Not a bad deal for those in the USA

Ok for those in the EU only if they manage to arrange shipping from an EU site to avoid us having to pay 20% extra in VAT plus a handling charge (hopefully as they get more backers it will make financial sense for them to do this)

one to keep an eye on but not dive straight in to

Oh and I hope they show at least some of the Arcade mode/co-op rules as I'd like to see how solo play friendly they are

Supposedly they're looking into EU shipping right now. Not quite sure why so many Kickstarters launch with no firm plans about shipping, and then scramble to find quotes during the campaign!

As I understand it, everyone pays the 20% VAT anyway (however the product ends up inside Europe, as long as it costs over a certain small threshold) - and I rightly expect that be factored into the shipping costs. The way these end up being astronomical is through:

- individual packages being sent out from the US, rather than being bulk-shipped and redistributed. The recent price rises hit this method the most.
- the VAT not being paid on packages before shipping, meaning that the courier has to pay the VAT themselves before claiming it off you, and charges a stupidly high 'handling fee' in the process.
- more dubious, but if you're bulk-shipping product for redistribution, you can mark the taxable cost as being production or at least wholesale cost, rather than the full whack that was pledged, or possibly just the value of the core pledge. I recall Reaper packages running into some hot water with this though - customs didn't believe that 5 vampire boxes and 3 Kaladraxes had a value of $100!

Hrm... Maybe. Still waiting on a huge Relic Knights order though.