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 Asherian Command wrote:
The one time it doesn't work, she isn't worth it.

Here, I think you meant that it is not worth putting efforts to seduce someone who is clearly not interested in you, not that the person who is not interested in you is not worth efforts or something, right ?

 poppa G wrote:
With this though, just moves and counter moves.

What are the countermove, who is doing them, and why ?

I feel like this thread has a couple different groups with a couple of different goals in it.

Group A wants to find a special someone for a relationship
Group B wants to get laid

Therefore, these different goals lead to different methods. If all you want ot do is get laid, you cna take a much more "clinic" approach to it. If you want a relationship, you have to be a bit more genuine and yourself.

 poppa G wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
So you didnt break the barrier between friend and lover, huh? ;P always next time, make a move man, if shes the one giving you the long hug, its probably because shes hopin for more.

Well we sat close together and under a blanket? And she suggested we hang out again very soon after the movie.
Soo...maybe? I have a feeling this may move slower than I had in mind.

You were under a blanket with her, you shoulda friggin cuddled... You just have to slowly lean in towards her, and see if she reciprocates, once she does, keep going in towards eachother and then just put your hand around her... its that easy.

Mind you, I suppose its fine that you didn't this time, going slow is good, going TOO slow is not good.

Pretty muchi see that if a bloke over analyses "how to get a girl" it wont work or at least wont be natural. Some times stuff works, sometimes it wont, the amount of ques i've missed to see if a girl likes me is insane, i once had a girl over, who i without realizing badly set up for a relationship, at my house she asked me flirty questions, flirted in two languages, hell bend over and "struggled" with my warhammer case yet somehow it went over the top of my head, in retrospect it was sweet, but i missed my chance, not fussed, just i should have acted. Especially on "its been a long time since i kissed someone, can you teach me" >.>

It's not bad, i had started dating my more attractive girlfriend after who did all the same stuff

Oh dude, thats nothing, quoted from a chat I was having with a friend last night about this very topic:

got there at like 1AM cuz I hit massive traffic in CT on the way there, as soon as I got there she ran up to me and hugged me tight and didn't let go, everyone was asleep, so we went to her room (the basement), we did a few shots (she made me do twice as many as her), we sat on her bed and talked - a lot - she made all the usual obvious verbal flirting hints, but also said stuff like "wow, its 4 AM and I'm not even tired" and stuff like "I can't believe we've been talking this long, feels like no time has past, I don't think either of us is getting any sleep tonight." etc. etc. etc. and then there were nonverbal signs... like she put her hand on mine, also she leaned up against me and wrapped my arms around her while we were talking, put her head in my lap, etc.

Yes, all extremely obvious, how I didn't tear her clothes off then and there I don't know -___-

actually, I do know, by the time I decided 'okay, those are ALL the signals I have to see' she had her hand on mine and was stroking the back of it with her thumb, and I went to go flip the grip and hold her hand and go for the kiss... and I was a bit too awkward and clumsy about it and she misinterpreted my hand motion as being 'get off me' and was all like 'Oh sorry I didnt mean to cross into your personal space like that' etc. etc. etc. and I was like whelp, there goes that and I was like, no its cool it didn't bother me, just my wrist hurts and I had to move it' kinda deal

As for the Chess analogy, I agree that puts it in too much of an impersonal light and kinda makes it seem too gamelike. I prefer to liken 'courtship' as a dance, it really is just a sociological ritual with its own set of unwritten rules, procedures, and processes... pretty much like a dance.

I feel like this thread has a couple different groups with a couple of different goals in it.

Group A wants to find a special someone for a relationship
Group B wants to get laid

Therefore, these different goals lead to different methods. If all you want ot do is get laid, you cna take a much more "clinic" approach to it. If you want a relationship, you have to be a bit more genuine and yourself.

Theres Group C who wants both simultaneously Though I think being genuine is the best approach overall.

 Easy E wrote:
If all you want ot do is get laid, you cna take a much more "clinic" approach to it.

Understatement of the year probably. How to get laid:

1) Go to craigslist (or other sites that are probably not safe to mention here).

2) Find someone else interested in getting laid.

3) Do it.

 Easy E wrote:
I feel like this thread has a couple different groups with a couple of different goals in it.

Group A wants to find a special someone for a relationship
Group B wants to get laid

Therefore, these different goals lead to different methods. If all you want ot do is get laid, you cna take a much more "clinic" approach to it. If you want a relationship, you have to be a bit more genuine and yourself.

Well, nice job trying to turn the entire thread into some kind of binary thing, but I don't think that it's developed that way at all. Plus, doesn't A) involve at least some of B)?

Dating involves some strategy no matter the end goal. And no matter the end goal, you have to learn how to ask someone out.

Honestly, I cringe when I see people give that "just be yourself" line of advice. No one is fully "himself" or "herself" on the first meeting or first date. At least not if they want another date. People dress up, clean up, act polite and try to put their best foot forward, and that behavior is expected. Being 100% yourself comes with time. Now, if you're saying "don't be a phony," that I can get behind.

But some guys don't know how to put their best foot forward, and therefore find that "being themselves" isn't working for them. Hence we have this thread.


Edit: @Poppa -- chaosxomega has it right. It's okay though...you can probably take a mulligan on that one. And it's just fine to take things slowly...but note that means *slowly advancing*. If you're interested, you have to let her know that it's going somewhere. If you repeatedly pass up opportunities, she's liable to think that you're "cold," or in the case of a less confident girl, wonder if it's her, if she's misread you, why you don't like her, etc.

Next time we want a small move from you. Polite and respectful, of course. And it can be small...but it needs to happen if you like this girl.

Yes, but we aren;t talking about getting dates as much anymore are we?

We seemed to have moved on a bit.

Well, we need our thread founder to chime in on this, but I think "what do I do now that I have a date" isn't that far out of bounds here. And really, we've been talking about *snuggling* for the past page. I don't agree with the idea that we've suddenly leapt to "getting laid."

If the topic had really switched to that, there'd be some very different advice being thrown around.

 Easy E wrote:
Yes, but we aren;t talking about getting dates as much anymore are we?

We seemed to have moved on a bit.

Alright, so this is how you propose to her, okay? You pick a nice quiet secluded spot, you take her there, and just talk about random stuff, don't act at all differently or give any hints whatsoever what you're about to do...

Fair enough. Carry on. I'm not the thread police.

Still haven't asked her out, going to attempt to do so tomorrow. What would you recommend for a first date if she says yes? All of my ideas seem to be extremely boring or cheesy so far.

KelseyC wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Cheesecat wrote:
I feel you're going into relationships in a wrong-minded way if you think the complexities of human relationships are comparable to playing a board game.

Indeed, especially since it's a game where one side "wins" and the other "loses". It makes it seem very materialistic and shallow, considering we're dealing with living people with emotions.

That is so true, reminds me of this video although this video is about how North Americans generally compare sex to baseball. I know this thread is about dating but thought I would share the video.

Oh gosh, I totally forgot to post the link. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xF-CX9mAHPo

KelseyC wrote:

KelseyC wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Cheesecat wrote:
I feel you're going into relationships in a wrong-minded way if you think the complexities of human relationships are comparable to playing a board game.

Indeed, especially since it's a game where one side "wins" and the other "loses". It makes it seem very materialistic and shallow, considering we're dealing with living people with emotions.

That is so true, reminds me of this video although this video is about how North Americans generally compare sex to baseball. I know this thread is about dating but thought I would share the video.

Oh gosh, I totally forgot to post the link. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xF-CX9mAHPo

That was brilliant, thanks for the post.

FoWPlayerDeathOfUS.TDs wrote:
Still haven't asked her out, going to attempt to do so tomorrow. What would you recommend for a first date if she says yes? All of my ideas seem to be extremely boring or cheesy so far.

What are your ideas?

Hey guys! Been really busy over the last few weeks, with work and my accidental girlfriend! I'll pitch in again soon, I just need to go back and absorb the conversation since I last posted here.

Also, although this is the 'How to Get a Date' thread, I'm sure no-one would mind too much if it was just about general dating advice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK, so I've been back over the last few pages... I think people are giving poppa G an unduly hard time! We're all here for one of two reasons - either to get advice or give it. I would proffer the suggestion that if you think assuming a girl wants to kiss you and then just going for it instead of asking is anything akin to a 'violation' or 'rape' then you have a lot of growing up to do. It's perfectly fine to assume that a girl would be open to kissing you if you are in a romantic situation with a girl that's clearly into you.

Duh.

The key is determining whether or not she IS actually into you. Incidentally, poppa G, that girl wants you. Stop mucking about. Call her. Call her now.

 Albatross wrote:
Hey guys! Been really busy over the last few weeks, with work and my accidental girlfriend! I'll pitch in again soon, I just need to go back and absorb the conversation since I last posted here.

Also, although this is the 'How to Get a Date' thread, I'm sure no-one would mind too much if it was just about general dating advice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK, so I've been back over the last few pages... I think people are giving poppa G an unduly hard time! We're all here for one of two reasons - either to get advice or give it. I would proffer the suggestion that if you think assuming a girl wants to kiss you and then just going for it instead of asking is anything akin to a 'violation' or 'rape' then you have a lot of growing up to do. It's perfectly fine to assume that a girl would be open to kissing you if you are in a romantic situation with a girl that's clearly into you.

Duh.

The key is determining whether or not she IS actually into you. Incidentally, poppa G, that girl wants you. Stop mucking about. Call her. Call her now.

Thanks man, seems like you and Gorgon are the only ones who don't despise me or something.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Seaward wrote:
Why is this thread any longer than simply saying, "ask"?

Cuz not all of us are naval aviators.

Don't need to be. Fortune favors the bold, gentlemen.

In all seriousness, the reason Rhino drivers get laid isn't because chicks are really into Rhinos. It's because you learn to be confident, and learn the benefits of appropriate aggression, while flying them.

And I don't think confidence is one of those things you can fake, by the way. I think the surefire way to make yourself palatable to women is to be palatable to women. You don't need to have movie star looks and pull down half a mil a year to be palatable. But you do need to work on yourself a little bit. You need to feel good about yourself, basically. And you get that by accomplishing some goals, getting yourself into a good place in life. You got your own place, are making a decent living, and don't spend all day in a dark room staring at a screen by way of leisure time? Trust me, you're in good enough shape that a woman politely declining your invitation to dinner isn't the world-ender it seems like when you've got none of those things going for you.

I was being facetious Seaward, though the fact of the matter is that not everyone in this thread is socially well adjusted/confident enough to feel comfortable 'just asking'.

 poppa G wrote:
.

Thanks man, seems like you and Gorgon are the only ones who don't despise me or something.

I think he makes a great point though about getting your gak in order leading to better confidence, though.

 Seaward wrote:

And I don't think confidence is one of those things you can fake, by the way. I think the surefire way to make yourself palatable to women is to be palatable to women. You don't need to have movie star looks and pull down half a mil a year to be palatable. But you do need to work on yourself a little bit. You need to feel good about yourself, basically. And you get that by accomplishing some goals, getting yourself into a good place in life. You got your own place, are making a decent living, and don't spend all day in a dark room staring at a screen by way of leisure time?

I think Seaward and I might actually agree on something.....

/World

 Seaward wrote:
You got your own place, are making a decent living, and don't spend all day in a dark room staring at a screen by way of leisure time? Trust me, you're in good enough shape that a woman politely declining your invitation to dinner isn't the world-ender it seems like when you've got none of those things going for you.

If you are 35 and have never ever been in a romantic relationship with anyone, even if you have your own place, are making a decent living and do not spend all day in a dark room staring at a screen, you wonder if there is something wrong with yourself, I think. Except of course if you are a priest.

Hybrid is so down on himself, but he makes a valid point, at some point, some people become their own barrier due to such events...

 Easy E wrote:
I feel like this thread has a couple different groups with a couple of different goals in it.

Group A wants to find a special someone for a relationship
Group B wants to get laid

Therefore, these different goals lead to different methods. If all you want ot do is get laid, you cna take a much more "clinic" approach to it. If you want a relationship, you have to be a bit more genuine and yourself.

Okay.. Let me offer a different perspective...

Women want to get laid. The notion that women don't want to have sex with men, is absolutely ridiculous. If she doesn't want to f*** you, then she most certainly doesn't want to have a relationship with you where you two are doing any sort of f***ing... Unless the relationship is her USING you for various things. If you are wanting to have a relationship with a woman, then you need to act like a man. If you are "wanting a special relationship" and actually say something like that, you are going to smell like desperation... The only women that want a desperate man is a woman that wants someone to control. You have to bring something to the table. Better yet, you actually have to feel like you have something to offer her. If you are bringing a shoulder to cry on, that's what you will be used for. Get it out of your head that being a man and wanting to have sex with a woman is morally wrong. It's not wrong. It's how you treat them after that is a matter of respect.

Now.. If you think you are ugly, do things to fix that. If you are covered with zits and are overweight, get p90x and go to a dermatologist. Why? To help your self esteem. If you are actively trying to improve yourself, that helps you mentally and will give you confidence when you approach women. Like I said before, you need to actually believe you are worth something.

In all relationships, you need to avoid putting anyone on a pedestal. Ever heard the phrase "rulers make bad lovers"? That is because if you do put her needs above all else, she will too. I'm saying this not so you can dominate her either. The goal is to be on equal footing. Again.. you need to actually believe that is the case. If you believe she is better than you and you don't deserve to be happy, then guess what, you wont be with her and you wont be happy.

If the goal you guys have is to get a date and meet people, the best way to approach that is to work on yourself and gain confidence. Communication is a skill and it needs to be worked on. It's just something you will have to learn how to do just like everyone else does.

In order to make yourself feel more comfortable, plan out the process. You need to straighten your back and shoulders, maintain eye contact and be comfortable talking to the person you are speaking with. Humor is a good tool for striking up conversation and you might need to script it out some to make it through transitions. You obvious

Asking someone to get a cup of coffee or drink is a pretty easy way to start. Your goal should be to find out about her interests and see if they jell with your own. Be casual and don't talk about commitment or . If she is asking about commitment, she most likely does like you already and it will be really easy. It's okay to be genuine and caring if the situation calls for it, but there is a pretty fine line. If you overdo it, you can come across as being fake. Overall, you want to treat her like a big brother would treat his sister during this phase. If you feel a connection, then obviously, get rid of the big brother analogy. The idea is to tease her and be playful. This sounds easier than it actually is and it's likely you will go too far a couple times. You want to keep her on her toes, be funny and confident. It's 100% mental.

The biggest thing that helped me was coming to the realization that dating is not just someone else interviewing me, it's me interviewing them. It's not just about me proving my worth to someone else but them proving their worth to me. Make sense?

I hope this helps you guys. It's just my own personal take and I understand it's only opinion. It worked for me as I'm happily married for coming up on 6 years and have two boys to show for it..

dereksatkinson wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
I feel like this thread has a couple different groups with a couple of different goals in it.

Group A wants to find a special someone for a relationship
Group B wants to get laid

Therefore, these different goals lead to different methods. If all you want ot do is get laid, you cna take a much more "clinic" approach to it. If you want a relationship, you have to be a bit more genuine and yourself.

Okay.. Let me offer a different perspective...

Women want to get laid. The notion that women don't want to have sex with men, is absolutely ridiculous. If she doesn't want to f*** you, then she most certainly doesn't want to have a relationship with you where you two are doing any sort of f***ing... Unless the relationship is her USING you for various things. If you are wanting to have a relationship with a woman, then you need to act like a man. If you are "wanting a special relationship" and actually say something like that, you are going to smell like desperation... The only women that want a desperate man is a woman that wants someone to control. You have to bring something to the table. Better yet, you actually have to feel like you have something to offer her. If you are bringing a shoulder to cry on, that's what you will be used for. Get it out of your head that being a man and wanting to have sex with a woman is morally wrong. It's not wrong. It's how you treat them after that is a matter of respect.

I see where you are coming from; if the sexual attraction is not there, then the relationship will most likely not work. I don't get the whole 'acting like a man' bit though, I thought that having XY chromosomes made somebody a male, I didn't know that the way you act constitutes manliness.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Hybrid is so down on himself, but he makes a valid point, at some point, some people become their own barrier due to such events...

That was a rhetorical point. I am actually only 27 . Also, I share my apartment with roommate for now, and do spend quite a lot of time staring at a screen. But I am working on that last one.

dereksatkinson wrote:
Overall, you want to treat her like a big brother would treat his sister during this phase. If you feel a connection, then obviously, get rid of the big brother analogy. The idea is to tease her and be playful. This sounds easier than it actually is and it's likely you will go too far a couple times. You want to keep her on her toes, be funny and confident. It's 100% mental.

The biggest thing that helped me was coming to the realization that dating is not just someone else interviewing me, it's me interviewing them. It's not just about me proving my worth to someone else but them proving their worth to me. Make sense?

I hope this helps you guys. It's just my own personal take and I understand it's only opinion. It worked for me as I'm happily married for coming up on 6 years and have two boys to show for it..

I like this advice, I'll keep the big brother thing in mind next time. I already treat job interviews like the way you treat relationship interviews, it's not so good in the labour market

chaos0xomega wrote:
I was being facetious Seaward, though the fact of the matter is that not everyone in this thread is socially well adjusted/confident enough to feel comfortable 'just asking'.

That's probably true. And the key to that is, as I said, to get into a place where they can be confident. If you've got nothing going for you, I'd say ignore the whole chick thing until you actually do. You can turn things around pretty dramatically just by hitting the gym three or four days a week, even if you're not necessarily out of shape. And it's not even about looking better - though you will - it's about feeling better. You're out doing something that you feel results from, thus you'll feel better about yourself, thus you'll be more at ease both alone and in social situations. Same with genuinely working on your career or your education or whatever you've got going on.

It also doesn't hurt to diversify hobbies a little. I nerd out with the best of them, both in tabletop and video games, I've got plenty of obscure interests that few or no women share, and hell, I post on here plenty, which is inherently nerdtastic, but I also make sure I keep up with sailing in the summer and beer league hockey during the winter, among other things. The sailing alone has resulted in more casual, "Hey, could you teach me?"-type requests from women than I can count. If I weren't already in a relationship, that kind of thing could very easily be parlayed into some good times.

What type of boat do you sail seaward? How many foot? Skiff, bi-hull, dingy, moving wine decanter (yacht sailing )? I used to sail as a kid, it can either be very relaxing or very intense- and it seems to bring out the worst in people , man, the number of clouts I copped off my dad for not moving fast enough , I copped more hits on the boat than I ever did off the boat and considering the season was spring and summer with a tiny bit of autumn and 1 day a week for about 3 hours that's really saying something. On water domestics were particularly spectacular.

Bullockist wrote:
What type of boat do you sail seaward? How many foot? Skiff, bi-hull, dingy, moving wine decanter (yacht sailing )? I used to sail as a kid, it can either be very relaxing or very intense- and it seems to bring out the worst in people , man, the number of clouts I copped off my dad for not moving fast enough , I copped more hits on the boat than I ever did off the boat and considering the season was spring and summer with a tiny bit of autumn and 1 day a week for about 3 hours that's really saying something. On water domestics were particularly spectacular.

Where I live, our local marina just has a bunch of little Daysailers and 420s and Lazers and things like that. I teach there every other season or so. I go down to the Carib every year with a couple guys and sail the British Virgin Islands, though. We usually rent a 52-foot monohull and stay down for a week, sailing between the islands during the day and drinking at night. Every now and then we'll try out a catamaran, but I prefer monohulls.

I used to sail the stripped down version of a lazer (less power, bigger hull) called a Spiral , I like em as a boat, nothing better than running or reaching on a windy day. Haven't sailed for years but.