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Honestly, the vendetta was way too cheap, even on 5th edition standards. There is no way it would have costed 130 points, when the Valkyrie, its weaker anti-infantry counterpart costed the same. Do the full-laser predator tank costs the same as the dakka predator ? Sure no, so why Robin Cruddace let is so for the Vendetta ? Certainly lack of though and playtesting, already.
Flyers are good in 6th, nonetheless expensive. Based simply on 5th edition costing mechanics, take your current Valkyrie : 130 points, and upgrade it with laser cannons.
Replace front multilaser with lascannon : +15 pts, replace wings rockets with lascannons : +2*15 pts.
twin-link all of them : +15 pts (or free if you want to be kind with guard).
TOTAL : 175 points to 190 points price range.

I'm expecting this kind of pricing. It would not even stop me from using mine (I'm not spamming them anyway).
Maybe they will push forward a smaller more point-efficient new flier to replace it. Go figure.

I assume Vendettas will be made TOO expensive.

 Ravajaxe wrote:
Honestly, the vendetta was way too cheap, even on 5th edition standards. There is no way it would have costed 130 points, when the Valkyrie, its weaker anti-infantry counterpart costed the same. Do the full-laser predator tank costs the same as the dakka predator ? Sure no, so why Robin Cruddace let is so for the Vendetta ? Certainly lack of though and playtesting, already.
Flyers are good in 6th, nonetheless expensive. Based simply on 5th edition costing mechanics, take your current Valkyrie : 130 points, and upgrade it with laser cannons.
Replace front multilaser with lascannon : +15 pts, replace wings rockets with lascannons : +2*15 pts.
twin-link all of them : +15 pts (or free if you want to be kind with guard).
TOTAL : 175 points to 190 points price range.

I'm expecting this kind of pricing. It would not even stop me from using mine (I'm not spamming them anyway).
Maybe they will push forward a smaller more point-efficient new flier to replace it. Go figure.

The Valk costs 130 WITH Rocket Pods, or IIRC 105 without.

I'd like to see the Valk stay the same price, lose extra armor. Replace Multilaser with Las cannon, 10 points or TLLC for 15. May choose either Hellstrike or Hellfury Missiles for free, take 2X rocket pods for +25, or 2X TLLC for +45.

 Lone Cat wrote:

 Wolf wrote:
Ahhh Vendetta huh ? Nice !

I am really wanting Rough Riders to receive some love in the codex as I would love to field the ones I am working on, a stat boost would be nice for sure !

Spoiler:

So far the models we've seen haven't really excited me as much as I had hoped it would when i first saw the IG were getting an update, however the vendetta model is a step in the right direction, I just hope the codex is good too !

*Edit*

Oh I just saw people saying its the Forgeworld upgrade kit. This excites me less...

Also in the new codex. Rough Rider should gain access to carapace armor to make Cuirassier thing.

The DKoK Death Riders are kitted that way, with French style breastplate and now considered a 4+ armor save.

That said, there's a reason such Cuirassier's ceased existing or wearing such uniforms/outfits a hundred years ago also

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Ravajaxe wrote:
Honestly, the vendetta was way too cheap, even on 5th edition standards. There is no way it would have costed 130 points, when the Valkyrie, its weaker anti-infantry counterpart costed the same. Do the full-laser predator tank costs the same as the dakka predator ? Sure no, so why Robin Cruddace let is so for the Vendetta ? Certainly lack of though and playtesting, already.
Flyers are good in 6th, nonetheless expensive. Based simply on 5th edition costing mechanics, take your current Valkyrie : 130 points, and upgrade it with laser cannons.
Replace front multilaser with lascannon : +15 pts, replace wings rockets with lascannons : +2*15 pts.
twin-link all of them : +15 pts (or free if you want to be kind with guard).
TOTAL : 175 points to 190 points price range.

I'm expecting this kind of pricing. It would not even stop me from using mine (I'm not spamming them anyway).
Maybe they will push forward a smaller more point-efficient new flier to replace it. Go figure.

The Valk costs 130 WITH Rocket Pods, or IIRC 105 without.

I'd like to see the Valk stay the same price, lose extra armor. Replace Multilaser with Las cannon, 10 points or TLLC for 15. May choose either Hellstrike or Hellfury Missiles for free, take 2X rocket pods for +25, or 2X TLLC for +45.

Of course with rocket pods ! If I'm comparing the full-laser predator to the dakka pred', it was for a reason. I'm not comparing it with the bare bone predator configuration.

The bare bone Valkyrie is irrelevant, it's 100 points with a multilaser and two single-use flimsy anti-tank Hellstrike missiles. It's trash, a bad joke.
Comparing a somewhat weak, but still usable anti-infantry variant (frag' rockets pods) versus a powerful anti-tank version is relevant.
And based on this type of comparison, Vendetta should have been pricier in V5, and should take a price hike in V6 codex.

I think that Polish Hussar thing needs to happen. I'd get an IG army just for them. Increase their armor a bit, give them fear or something and you're good to go!

 Ravajaxe wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Ravajaxe wrote:
Honestly, the vendetta was way too cheap, even on 5th edition standards. There is no way it would have costed 130 points, when the Valkyrie, its weaker anti-infantry counterpart costed the same. Do the full-laser predator tank costs the same as the dakka predator ? Sure no, so why Robin Cruddace let is so for the Vendetta ? Certainly lack of though and playtesting, already.
Flyers are good in 6th, nonetheless expensive. Based simply on 5th edition costing mechanics, take your current Valkyrie : 130 points, and upgrade it with laser cannons.
Replace front multilaser with lascannon : +15 pts, replace wings rockets with lascannons : +2*15 pts.
twin-link all of them : +15 pts (or free if you want to be kind with guard).
TOTAL : 175 points to 190 points price range.

I'm expecting this kind of pricing. It would not even stop me from using mine (I'm not spamming them anyway).
Maybe they will push forward a smaller more point-efficient new flier to replace it. Go figure.

The Valk costs 130 WITH Rocket Pods, or IIRC 105 without.

I'd like to see the Valk stay the same price, lose extra armor. Replace Multilaser with Las cannon, 10 points or TLLC for 15. May choose either Hellstrike or Hellfury Missiles for free, take 2X rocket pods for +25, or 2X TLLC for +45.

Of course with rocket pods ! If I'm comparing the full-laser predator to the dakka pred', it was for a reason. I'm not comparing it with the bare bone predator configuration.

The bare bone Valkyrie is irrelevant, it's 100 points with a multilaser and two single-use flimsy anti-tank Hellstrike missiles. It's trash, a bad joke.
Comparing a somewhat weak, but still usable anti-infantry variant (frag' rockets pods) versus a powerful anti-tank version is relevant.
And based on this type of comparison, Vendetta should have been pricier in V5, and should take a price hike in V6 codex.

Another change besides points adjustments would be to remove the squadron option from them, or possibly remove them from FA completely, and make them dedicated transports for company command, stormtroopers, and platoons/veterans with an "Airborne" doctrine

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Lone Cat wrote:

 Wolf wrote:
Ahhh Vendetta huh ? Nice !

I am really wanting Rough Riders to receive some love in the codex as I would love to field the ones I am working on, a stat boost would be nice for sure !

Spoiler:

So far the models we've seen haven't really excited me as much as I had hoped it would when i first saw the IG were getting an update, however the vendetta model is a step in the right direction, I just hope the codex is good too !

*Edit*

Oh I just saw people saying its the Forgeworld upgrade kit. This excites me less...

Also in the new codex. Rough Rider should gain access to carapace armor to make Cuirassier thing.

The DKoK Death Riders are kitted that way, with French style breastplate and now considered a 4+ armor save.

That said, there's a reason such Cuirassier's ceased existing or wearing such uniforms/outfits a hundred years ago also

Many Kriegsche collectors/players prefer them to be 'french' rather than 'germans'. maybe because the designer created them that way, giving them a sallet helmet with central comb rather than plasteel pickehaube or adrians.
WW1 eliminated Cuirassiers as cavalry unit, machineguns made horsemen obsolette. (and so same ol' Baroque era warfare). BUT i guess the Poles invented the 'explosive-tipped hunting lance' and used them in WW2 against German panzerkampfwagens.

This FOC adjustment would be fluffy and nice. Losing a bit of resilience (extra-armor is not needed thanks to V6 rules on stunned fliers, and rarity of stunned occurrence anyway) would not be a big harm.
I too, would like the rocket Valkyrie to keep its current price. Making a viable and scoring airborne force with stromtroopers (like in many action / sci-fi movies) would be awesome. Especially if it is not an overpowered nonsense. We will soon see, but no solid info for now...

 Lone Cat wrote:
BUT i guess the Poles invented the 'explosive-tipped hunting lance' and used them in WW2 against German panzerkampfwagens.

This is a myth. There is no recorded example of Polish cavalry charging armour.

It was German propaganda meant to degrade the Poles as a whole.

 BrookM wrote:
It was German propaganda meant to degrade the Poles as a whole.

In order to keep this thread from locking, how about we talk about the actual rumors/WD stuff, etc rather than wishlisting and history lessons.

 pretre wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
It was German propaganda meant to degrade the Poles as a whole.

In order to keep this thread from locking, how about we talk about the actual rumors/WD stuff, etc rather than wishlisting and history lessons.

Well, the Vendettas that were shown in WD were part of a spread about Apocalypse--so they definitely were from this week's WD. The models were part of the WD staff member's Guard armies, not the Studio armies--so it's definitely Forge World Vendetta kits not plastic Vendetta bits.

 Lone Cat wrote:

Many Kriegsche collectors/players prefer them to be 'french' rather than 'germans'. maybe because the designer created them that way, giving them a sallet helmet with central comb rather than plasteel pickehaube or adrians.
WW1 eliminated Cuirassiers as cavalry unit, machineguns made horsemen obsolette. (and so same ol' Baroque era warfare). BUT i guess the Poles invented the 'explosive-tipped hunting lance' and used them in WW2 against German panzerkampfwagens.

Well, no Sir, I disagree. Polish cavalry never stupidly charged panzers in 1939. This was a nazi propaganda hoax, made-up to show the "inferiority" of Slavic people. However, there was at least one occurrence of a panzer force counter-attacking a polish cavalry company which had defeated german infantry. Polish cavalry was considered tactically as fast moving infantry detachment, for scooting / harassing uses. True, WW1 had already dismissed any conventional role to cavalry in an era dominated by long-range rifles, machine guns and artillery. And yes, even the proud traditional cuirassiers with their armoured plates (and flashy red pants...) were completely obsolete from WW1 start. Horses are far from fearless in this environment anyway.

edit : ninja'ed

 Kanluwen wrote:

Well, the Vendettas that were shown in WD were part of a spread about Apocalypse--so they definitely were from this week's WD. The models were part of the WD staff member's Guard armies, not the Studio armies--so it's definitely Forge World Vendetta kits not plastic Vendetta bits.

Which is sad, since a simple upgrade sprue for the Valk with repack would have been nice.

Seemed to have taken something of a diversion into history for a while there but we're back on track now, be easier for all if we were to maintain this corrected course.

Thanks

What would you guys like to see happen to the Hydra? Interceptor and the ability to not snapfire at ground units would be pre tight. PaK 88 anyone?

Hell, make it TL. I don't want to buy a valk or rely on fortifications for AA. I use tank heavy guard for a reason.

 Las wrote:
What would you guys like to see happen to the Hydra? Interceptor and the ability to not snapfire at ground units would be pre tight. PaK 88 anyone?

How about we keep the wishlisting to a minimum? I think the big question is whether the Hydra pics show a chance of a dual-kit, but no one has been able to get a definitive answer yet. :(

Looks like yes, it is a dual kit, the rear platform more or less confirms that if you ask me.

Just got my monthly pay bonus come through, think ill keep hold of it for now though
Want to know if vehicle squadrons are still a choice 1st.

Always seen people run a unit of 3 bassys but never tried it, so might splash out and get a unit.
However, i want to make sure GW isnt doing anything stupid 1st, like making them a unit of 1 max.

 BrookM wrote:
Looks like yes, it is a dual kit, the rear platform more or less confirms that if you ask me.

I could definitely see it doubling as some of the Ordnance tanks. The only doubt in my mind is the sheer size of the Hydra Guns. They will single handedly take up most of a sprue. I doubt you could fit something like a Colossus mortar and the Hydra Guns on a single sprue. That means GW would be throwing away a sprue with each kit.

Most of the dual kits I know all the options fit on a single sprue. Look at the Leman Russ variants, all the turret options along with the turret itself and part of the hull all fit on a single sprue. The imperial knight, both weapon options + part of the body fit on a single sprue. The Manticore, all the missile options fit on the one sprue that expands it from being a simple Chimera. Several others as well.

So that's the one thing that makes me think the Hydra won't be a dual kit, simply that the Hydra's guns are so big they'll take up most a sprue on their lonesome. Just a Hydra by itself I think would be a 2 sprue kit, any sort of dual kit I reckon would have to be a 3 sprue kit.

Maybe a Griffon could fit on there?

Or maybe the Hydra is going to be a 3 sprue kit which is horribly expensive, lol.

Again:
The Hydra is almost certainly going to be a dual kit with the Basilisk. The Basilisk is currently a Direct Only item, and has been since 2013. We know that they plan things far, far in advance so this is not unheard of.

Many Kriegsche collectors/players prefer them to be 'french' rather than 'germans'.

NEIN! My DKOK is wearing 1943 SS autumn camo while my vehicles sport spring 1943!!!!

 pretre wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Well, the Vendettas that were shown in WD were part of a spread about Apocalypse--so they definitely were from this week's WD. The models were part of the WD staff member's Guard armies, not the Studio armies--so it's definitely Forge World Vendetta kits not plastic Vendetta bits.

Which is sad, since a simple upgrade sprue for the Valk with repack would have been nice.

It doesn't mean there won't be one--it just means that these photos aren't it.

With that said, I kind of hope we can say good riddance to the Vendetta. It's an abomination that never should have been approved. It would have been far simpler for them to put the Vulture in or an actual, dedicated anti-tank flyer. Not this hideous multirole blargher.

I think the Vendetta was fine before the flyer rules came about, maybe a little bit cheap, but not terribly so.

 Kanluwen wrote:
With that said, I kind of hope we can say good riddance to the Vendetta. It's an abomination that never should have been approved. It would have been far simpler for them to put the Vulture in or an actual, dedicated anti-tank flyer. Not this hideous multirole blargher.

There you go again, telling us how we shouldn't have things.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
With that said, I kind of hope we can say good riddance to the Vendetta. It's an abomination that never should have been approved. It would have been far simpler for them to put the Vulture in or an actual, dedicated anti-tank flyer. Not this hideous multirole blargher.

There you go again, telling us how we shouldn't have things.

Saying "It should never have existed" is not the same as "We shouldn't have something".

Plus it's not like there wasn't already, y'know, the Vulture Gunship.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
With that said, I kind of hope we can say good riddance to the Vendetta. It's an abomination that never should have been approved. It would have been far simpler for them to put the Vulture in or an actual, dedicated anti-tank flyer. Not this hideous multirole blargher.

There you go again, telling us how we shouldn't have things.

Saying "It should never have existed" is not the same as "We shouldn't have something".

Plus it's not like there wasn't already, y'know, the Vulture Gunship.

Gotta agree with Kan here, it's no more saying that people shouldn't have something than the outcry over the aesthetics of the Taurox is.

Speaking of RR being removed from the GW sight has anyone noticed the techpriests are now under elites and not HQ so that rumor must have been true

410mcollins wrote:
Speaking of RR being removed from the GW sight has anyone noticed the techpriests are now under elites and not HQ so that rumor must have been true

Guessing based off of the webstore is not a terribly accurate method.