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 Peregrine wrote:
But now they have no purpose. They're essentially veteran squads that don't score, and IG have absolutely no use for non-scoring infantry that just kill marines reasonably well. Storm troopers had exactly one reason to exist in the current codex: their special deployment options. Take those away and you're left with a redundant unit and a transport that is just garbage. The only way the new storm troopers are going to be even moderately useful is if veteran squads are nerfed into uselessness and IG players are desperate for any unit that can take more than one BS 3 melta gun.

I suspect veteran squad availability will drop significantly this time around regardless of whether they get nerfed. Something like a flat 0-2 limit or especially 1 vet per platoon feels likely.

alphaecho wrote:
My scottish are currently acting as storm troopers at times, but I find their kilts flying up while they deep strike a bit too repulsive to keep them as storm troopers.

 Mr.Omega wrote:






I am really liking the rules for the Taurox Prime. For 95 points (Gatling+Heavy Stubber upgrades) you get 4 S4 AP3 shots, 10 TL S4 AP- shots, and 3 S4 AP6 shots, all at a glorious BS4. Maybe not quite a Venom, but still quite beastly.

145 points for a Scion Command Squad with full plasma has been making my eyes water, a bit late to the anti-Riptide crisis but still quite nice nonetheless. Combined with a Servo Skull Inquisitor and Psyoccolum, well the unit becomes basically broken.

D6 scatter from a servo skull, fire at a unit with Psykers in, like a psychic MC, or Farseer unit, or anything, and wipe them out with BS10 plasma.

1. What is "Hotshot Volleygun"? is it SAW version of Lasrifle? (or smaller Multilaser)
2. Ability to load an entire unit of Infantry/Scion section and being an ATV that ignores all failed rough terrain test makes it superior to Chimaera, in the other words. this is Stryker of the 41st Millenium
or isn't it?

1. It is a Salvo 2 / 4 | S 4 | AP 3 weapon and the squad can take 2 of them.

2. Not at 11 / 10 / 10 it isn't. As has been mentioned, it will be targeted for first blood and to make your Scions footslog to where you want them.

Am I being dumb or would it be really silly to swap a hot-shot las pistol for a bolt pistol, even if it is free? Aren't they 12" S4 AP3?

Pedro Kantor wrote:
1. It is a Salvo 2 / 4 | S 4 | AP 3 weapon and the squad can take 2 of them.

2. Not at 11 / 10 / 10 it isn't. As has been mentioned, it will be targeted for first blood and to make your Scions footslog to where you want them.

1. So the volleygun is Scion exclusive one? And does it serve a modern SAW function if normal Infantry section can take it too?
2. So it makes Taurox a hummer . correct?

 Bull0 wrote:
Am I being dumb or would it be really silly to swap a hot-shot las pistol for a bolt pistol, even if it is free? Aren't they 12" S4 AP3?

6", S3, AP3.

That's why hot-shot weapons mostly suck. The guns are 18" range, the pistols 6", AP3 is great for killing marines, but S3 means you need a 5+ to wound. If you're not fighting MEQs, you're just burning points on a low Str AP3 weapon.

The AP3 makes them look like the ultimate marine killers until you realise there's a ton of stuff in the guard codex that kills marines better but is also decent against non-MEQs.

 Lone Cat wrote:

Pedro Kantor wrote:
1. It is a Salvo 2 / 4 | S 4 | AP 3 weapon and the squad can take 2 of them.

2. Not at 11 / 10 / 10 it isn't. As has been mentioned, it will be targeted for first blood and to make your Scions footslog to where you want them.

1. So the volleygun is Scion exclusive one? And does it serve a modern SAW function if normal Infantry section can take it too?
2. So it makes Taurox a hummer . correct?

1) Yes. It is basically a large, fast firing hotshot lasgun by the looks of it.

2) Something like that.

11/10/10 isn't the problem. The problem is it's awesome speed, dakka, bs4, and elite cargo are in a package that is less armored than cheaper, slower, and less dakkalicious bs3 transports that carry more expendible cargo.

ALTAR OF WAR Book (HB) 39€

If that's a compilation of all of the special missions from all of the Alters of War to-date, this will be a good book. Not 39€ ($75US) good, but still good.

I just realized the kind of funny reason the Taurox can reroll difficult terrain tests. The writer saw that it has 4 tracks. Which is double the amount of tracks on a chimera. Therefore, more tracks = less likely to get stuck. Right? Physics?

 krazynadechukr wrote:
Guard by any other name is still guard.....

Exalated!

 krazynadechukr wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
I've got fond memories of it costing $12.

Aaaaaaa, I rememberz back in my days when a bottle of cokee cola was a nickel.... aaaaaa (said in an old man's voice)....

Ah, the sarcasm...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Goresaw wrote:
I just realized the kind of funny reason the Taurox can reroll difficult terrain tests. The writer saw that it has 4 tracks. Which is double the amount of tracks on a chimera. Therefore, more tracks = less likely to get stuck. Right? Physics?

You play a game with 28mm men - don't start putting logic into this mess!

 MrFlutterPie wrote:
[If they are "true" Scots everything within 6" should have to take a blind test upon their arrival

Ask a Scotsman what's worn under the kilt and he'll reply "Nothing, its all in working order"

I may have to try for a Scion carapace/ Vic Lamb kilted legs hybrid squad for Storm Troopers. I can see some bits seller making money out of me.

So essentially a Taurox is a more expensive, up-gunned Ork trukk? And the Prime is a very expensive glass cannon without much of a cannon (small blast blast auto-cannon? A cyclone missle launcher?)

Frankly the Chimera is probably straight up better than the regular Taurox. Heavy bolter and a multilaser with AV12 front for almost the same cost as the Taurox's AV 11 front and a twinlinked auto-cannon. The Prime would simply be targeted and wiped off the board by anything stronger than a lasgun; a mob of ork shoota boyz could reliably bring one down with just shooting.


However, we get 2 new pieces of information. The hydra's alternate built will not be a salamander, and that a regular non-hotshot vollygun may exist.

 Lone Cat wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:






I am really liking the rules for the Taurox Prime. For 95 points (Gatling+Heavy Stubber upgrades) you get 4 S4 AP3 shots, 10 TL S4 AP- shots, and 3 S4 AP6 shots, all at a glorious BS4. Maybe not quite a Venom, but still quite beastly.

145 points for a Scion Command Squad with full plasma has been making my eyes water, a bit late to the anti-Riptide crisis but still quite nice nonetheless. Combined with a Servo Skull Inquisitor and Psyoccolum, well the unit becomes basically broken.

D6 scatter from a servo skull, fire at a unit with Psykers in, like a psychic MC, or Farseer unit, or anything, and wipe them out with BS10 plasma.

1. What is "Hotshot Volleygun"? is it SAW version of Lasrifle? (or smaller Multilaser)
2. Ability to load an entire unit of Infantry/Scion section and being an ATV that ignores all failed rough terrain test makes it superior to Chimaera, in the other words. this is Stryker of the 41st Millenium
or isn't it?

You can just put a dozer blade on your chimera to re-roll terrain tests.

I'm not buying a Taurox because I'm not going to pay $50 for a 50 point unit. I've got two chimeras that I bought back when their prices were reasonable. My biggest fear is that they make Scions/Taurox ridiculously OP in order to sell more of their ridiculously over-priced models. Honestly, that's how you make money in this business, introduce new units that each army needs, make them OP, and then sell expensive new models of them.

 Toburk wrote:
Frankly the Chimera is probably straight up better than the regular Taurox. Heavy bolter and a multilaser with AV12 front for almost the same cost as the Taurox's AV 11 front and a twinlinked auto-cannon. The Prime would simply be targeted and wiped off the board by anything stronger than a lasgun; a mob of ork shoota boyz could reliably bring one down with just shooting.

Would only remain true if the Chimera is to stay the same points cost, unless that has been confirmed I wouldn't at all be surprised if they have bumped up the price of the Chimera to try and balance it against the Taurox and make the Taurox look more appealing...

Interesting that Power weapons are 15 points vs 10 in the current IG Dex and a Fist is 25 vs 15.
Could this portend the future for the IG dex??? Cheaper guys but more expensive wargear (making it a points wash)??

dkellyj wrote:
Interesting that Power weapons are 15 points vs 10 in the current IG Dex and a Fist is 25 vs 15.
Could this portend the future for the IG dex??? Cheaper guys but more expensive wargear (making it a points wash)??

The costs are just copy/pasted from the various Space Marine books.

 Kanluwen wrote:

dkellyj wrote:
Interesting that Power weapons are 15 points vs 10 in the current IG Dex and a Fist is 25 vs 15.
Could this portend the future for the IG dex??? Cheaper guys but more expensive wargear (making it a points wash)??

The costs are just copy/pasted from the various Space Marine books.

That's not a good design choice. A fist on a SM is worth more than a fist on a guardsman.

 Peregrine wrote:


Honestly the DKoK grenadiers are pretty good. 12 points a model gets you BS/WS 4, carapace armor, immunity to morale problems from shooting losses, and a decent gun.

My one major point of disagreement would be the gun. I can count on one hand how many models have taken a wound due to the AP3 that they wouldn't have taken if they were AP5 or AP-, most of the time I'm facing 2+ armor, crap armor, or some sort of cover or invul save by the time those S3 18" guns come into play. For 1pt less than a CSM or Dire Avenger, they're still not particularly amazing, especially as they don't have access to much in terms of deployment options to get that AP3 into play more effectively and the low S/range of the gun makes its value somewhat overstated by the AP.

As a troops stat line I don't really know what else you can expect. The new storm troopers aren't bad because of their stat line, they're bad because they don't seem to have any kind of coherent role. They can't score, they can't really deliver special weapons all that effectively, they can't outflank/infiltrate anymore. They're dedicated MEQ killers in an army that has an abundance of dedicated anti-MEQ infantry in troops, and an abundance of tanks that just slaughter MEQs.

All true, that said, my problem with the statline is largely Ld related, the elite of the largest fighting force in the universe should be better than Ld7/8. This is huge in trying to run these units, as it's very easy to break armies built around such units. Eldar can work with T3 4+sv units when they've got mini-rending S4 assault 18" guns and lots of inbuilt psychic survivability support with enhanced mobility on foot and when mechanized and Ld9, MEQ's have their increased T and 3+ sv and Ld9, but these guys, just 1pt less, all they get is AP3.

The melee weapon point costs and loss of pistol + CCW don't really have any impact on their competitive value,

Not too much, but given that "stormtrooper" as an archetype is an assault role, having a generalist elite unit would have been nice

they're just proof that GW's rule authors (I refuse to call such hopeless incompetents "game designers") have absolutely no clue how the game works. But apparently GW exists for the sole purpose of providing "productive" employment for complete idiots who would otherwise have no hope of rising above a career as a janitor or burger flipper.

This is increasingly apparent

That's not a good design choice. A fist on a SM is worth more than a fist on a guardsman.

This would suppose that they do any real designing in the codex/rules outside of "How can we make them buy more stuff?"

I keep coming back to this thread hoping for something to make me happy and inspired. Oh well back to PP it is...

Question guys.. if that entry is indeed for new IG and not for Stormie Supplement.. does that mean IG can now take 1-3 Stormie squads for a single elite choice, and does that also mean since they're now a platoon, if you choose to deep strike them you have to hold them all in reserve, and then you only roll once for reserves for the whole platoon?

 Toburk wrote:
So essentially a Taurox is a more expensive, up-gunned Ork trukk?

It's really nothing like a trukk. It isn't fast, it isn't open-topped and it isn't packed with orks, so it's got a totally different battlefield role.

I'd say the closest vehicle in the game already would be a Razorback. You lose 1 BS, 1 point of side armour and the option of taking better guns for more generally useful weapons, a five point discount, a free dozer-blade equivalent and a couple of firepoints. I believe that is actually a fairly good trade-off and Razorbacks are considered a viable option.

The Chimera is a little better in most respects (less effective against light vehicles, more awkward to disembark, but tougher, better anti-personnel shooting, more transport capacity,more options and better fire points) but also a bit more expensive, so I wouldn't say that the Taurox is completely outclassed.

What I don't understand is why they would release a new vehicle which fills a very similar role to the Chimera and makes the Chimera's aesthetic design flaws much worse. I just don't see who is meant to be the market for this thing.

GenRifDrake wrote:
Question guys.. if that entry is indeed for new IG and not for Stormie Supplement.. does that mean IG can now take 1-3 Stormie squads for a single elite choice, and does that also mean since they're now a platoon, if you choose to deep strike them you have to hold them all in reserve, and then you only roll once for reserves for the whole platoon?

It says for that a Stormtroop Platoon is an Elite choice for "Codex: Imperial Guard", not "Codex: Militarum Tempestus".

Yeah, because the evil bastards are selling "little Timmy" a load of Scions that he then won't be able to use in Codex: Astra Militarum, in a moustache-twirling display of senseless villainy! And we broke the story here first, folks

Or they just used Imperial Guard there instead of Astra Militarum because they're still using the two names anyway and it's quite confusing and when the unit entry is exactly the same in Codex:AM you conspiracy theorists will be NOWHERE to be found

*edit* Not sure if that was what Kanluwen was driving at, but on the other hand, if it wasn't, I'm not sure what point was being made there

They actually use both terms.

On the Taurox Prime/Taurox, the vehicle upgrades tell you to "refer to Codex: Astra Militarum" and the Tempestus units tell you they are an option for "Codex: Imperial Guard".

90% sure it's done intentionally.

Are you really saying you think they intentionally published rules that will only last for a week though

*edit* Your thing about the Taurox doesn't hold up anyway, the Taurox entry says any Imperial Guard unit that can take a Chimera can have one. So... where does that leave your theory? It's clearly just to delineate that Taurox can be taken by any IG unit but Primes only by Tempestus Scions or Tempestus Command Squads. It's got nothing to do with the AM/IG selling stuff people can't use bs conspiracy.

 Perfect Organism wrote:
I just don't see who is meant to be the market for this thing.

I think they made it for me. Because the new storm trooper codex is really Codex: Arbites in disguise and was only renamed after GW realized they had stopped producing Arbite miniatures. Can't wait to put flashing lights on those ugly tracked trucks.

Also, am I the only one who is disappointed that only the prime is listed as fast?

This might be a silly question, but the transport capacity for the Taurox is 10, but the maximum squad size for Scions / Stormtroopers is 5?

I know that you can replace any chimera entry with a Taurox but it just seems like a waste to put a 5 man squad in it.

I am guessing maybe the point is that Ogryns can also take it and they count as bulky?

Says in the WD scan of the tempestus scions unit entry - May include up to 5 additional tempestus scions 12pts/model