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Zengu wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
It would be great if it were, say, in the Elites section, or could be taken as an upgrade for infantry squads (like the platforms for Eldar Guardians).

Using mortars as a baselne isn't really sound, since they're almost unanimously considered one of the worst weapons in the Guard codex.

Beat me to it was just about say that.... Unless something changes the elite section will still be lacking,,,, Would have been a great place for it.

I don't know, storm trooper platoons seems pretty crazy. Plus, we have yet to see how bad they hit Marbo, how the bullgryn/ogryn work OR how the PBS shook out.

I'll stick with the Thudd Gun, personally: 4 small blast, str 5 ap 5 and pins at -2 ld, for 55 pts, can take up to four in an elite slot, do want.

 Bobthehero wrote:
I'll stick with the Thudd Gun, personally: 4 small blast, str 5 ap 5 and pins at -2 ld, for 55 pts, can take up to four in an elite slot, do want.

No one asked you, you dirty DKoK player!

Biophysical wrote:
You know, I don't hate the rumored Wyvern rules. 4 TL, small, shredding, cover denying blasts a turn, even at S4, is going to cause casualties. Assuming an average of 1 hit per blast, it will be pretty decent against squishy support or minimal scoring troops. Anything bunched up will take a while lot of damage with that many templates. The high accuracy will also be good for barrage sniping shenanigans.

I don't mean to sound like I think it's great. Most of what it does can also be done by Griffon. I think that a 65 point model for 50$ is going to make it tough to stomach, though, and crummy barrage rules will make it take 20 minutes to resolve the shooting of a full squadron.

The Griffon may well disappear from the codex, back to a unit that could be played only in a FW-allowed environment. As I said yesterday, GW seems to have established a policy where they do no mess with FW field as much as before. We might see the FW artillery tanks left to FW for development and rules, GW having their own tanks in plastic. In this case, the wyvern will have less competitors in the role of horde slasher in pure IG codex army lists.

Today's revelation shakes the established lines : we went from a heavy 2 small blast to a heavy 2+2 twin linked barrage. This becomes quite potent, even if still highly specialized.
The twin-linking is a little bit too much, I feel. Having four barrage blasts, the wyvern should not warrant to be TL on top of that. Plus if will slow down considerably the barrage resolution that is already cumbersome.

Twin linked barrage is nice for character sniping.

The way multiple barrages work, twin-linking is incredibly powerful (ask anybody who's put a divination Inquisitor next to a thunderfire cannon). However, NOT being twin-linked makes the whole unit so inconsistent that people will probably never/rarely even think of it, since one bad scatter ruins the entire shot. Not a lot of middle ground there, so giving it a bad S/AP is really the best way to make a weapon doing what they want the Wyvern to do actually work.

Looking at the improved statline for the Wyvern, I'm thinking it will fit the bill as a consistent artillery piece.

What i mean is for standard guard artillery, you only have a 33% chance to get a spot on hit. Then depending on the guns minimum range/line of sight, you may be able to subtract 3 BS from the scatter. An average scatter is 7", so minus 3 brings us to 4". A 4" scatter even on a large blast is largely a miss. So while that colossus is great at blowing out even marines on a hit from cover, if it whiffs you've lost it all. And if you have your arty in a battery? That first shot is determining where your second & third shots go. So a complete whiff on the first shot will send the following shots to hell.Then you can factor rolling badly for wounding rolls.

On the Wyvern though, Twinlinking will help prevent the complete whiff on hitting and help keep the following shots where you want them, the number of shots is helping keeping the hit count high regardless of spacing, Shred will help keep wounds from getting wrecked from bad dice rolls, and Ignore Cover keeps people from going to ground for 2+ saves and the like.

I suppose my question would be....would 3 wyverns be more, or less effective at removing targets than a combined arty squadron of 1 Griffon + 1 Colossus. The Griffon and Colossus will clock in at 215 points (75+140), against 3 Wyverns at 195. 12 TL small blast S4 AP6 bs 1 re-roll scatter S6 AP4 Large Blast with 1 S6 AP3 Ignore Cover large blast following with barrage rules.

My mathhammer isn't that great, so I'll leave that to someone else to figure out. I'm gonna find someone to playstest with =P

 pretre wrote:
Twin linked barrage is nice for character sniping.

Anyone want to run the maths on whether Wyverns can decently or attempt to snipe Heralds out of Screamerstars?

I hope the barrage sniping mechanic will be removed from the V6.5 / V7 ruleset, rumored to be out soon.
A tweak as simple as giving defending player the choice of models removed as casualties would solve that.


For now, it will be a powerful tank, and what I like more, not painfully annoying on mirror matches in tournaments (due to AP6 only).
While current metagame is not very horde oriented, taking a wyvern or two, will certainly free other force org' slots from the task of firing at weak hidden units (scoring or not). Here is a small listing of Wyvern preferred targets : kroots, ork boyz (under KFF), ork lootas, tyranid gargoyles and gaunts (under Venomthrope cloud), chaos spawn, hidden cultists, plague-bearers. Considering this, it will certainly find some usefulness. Astra Militarum players will also have the opportunity to take their chance, aiming at small painful units such as min-sized eldar jetbikes, JSJ crisis suits, but without wasting precious manticore missiles. Provided that Wyvern tank survives of course, we know how AV 12/10/10 open-top is not exactly resilient these days...

Well now, if the Wyvern has two of those mortars, suddenly the idea of bombarding a horde of orks or those annoying Nurgle daemons is a lot more viable.

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Twin linked barrage is nice for character sniping.

Anyone want to run the maths on whether Wyverns can decently or attempt to snipe Heralds out of Screamerstars?

With 1 assuming it hits with every template and hits 3 models. Might do a wound. You Should be able to kill it with all 3 firing. Add in thudd guns for amusement.

Ha, it seems my theory was right, each side of the wyvern shoots twice, for 4 shots! Awesome! I was going to get one anyway, but now I'll get two, and perhaps 3 depending on how my wallet is feeling next month. The hydra/wyvern kit has really gotten me pumped for this release, though I'm still nervous about the griffon, medusa, and colossus being removed.

So its seems like a majority of the rumors that we've been hearing for months are true. I'm still wondering about the new "never before seen flyer ." Is there still time for that to appear or is it just myth?

I don't really want to hand GW all of my money, but I have 40 Kasrkin models who've mostly been left in their box the last 5 years.

I miss the days of doctrines with Guard, and with the release of the 5th edition codex, I didn't technically have any Troops choices (oh, Grenadiers!), unless I used them as Carapace-Vets, which I ultimately was forced to, and I stocked up on Cadians.

However the thought of handing GW £60 of my money makes me sick. So I'm going to have to bite my tongue and wait it out for the so-called new Guard codex. After all, there surely aren't any Guard/'Militarum' players who favour Stormtroopers over Leman Russ?

So today I realised that Astra Militarum sounds a bit too much like a spell from Harry Potter.

So I made this.



I believe it sums up response to the Taurox pretty well.

Rob451 wrote:
So today I realised that Astra Militarum sounds a bit too much like a spell from Harry Potter.

So I made this.



I believe it sums up response to the Taurox pretty well.

Mwahahaha !
You should try with militarum tempestus, it fits mouth movement better and really relates to the Taurox!

If the Wyvvern gets four mortar shots, twinlinked, with shred and ignore cover, for 65pts, that means mortar heavy weapon squads will be what, 45pts?

BTW, mortar squads are one of the few things that are bad and overcosted, but actually needs a price drop more than a rules buff. Not that I'd mind twin-linking, but at 45pts I'd run a squad or two for giggles.

 Polonius wrote:
If the Wyvvern gets four mortar shots, twinlinked, with shred and ignore cover, for 65pts, that means mortar heavy weapon squads will be what, 45pts?

With GW's recent track record, they'll probably stay 60pts

Just pre-ordered a Monster Truckus Imperialis.
It's plucky underdog story has won me over

 LordotKasrkin wrote:
After all, there surely aren't any Guard/'Militarum' players who favour Stormtroopers over Leman Russ?

I love both! I am looking forward to allying the two books together, as I have been doing with ABG/IG for a while. I'll probably stop using the ABG list for a while, at least until FW gets an update out for it.

We still haven't heard word about this 5th kit, unless the box with the chimera is the 5th addition to this release.

 Polonius wrote:
If the Wyvvern gets four mortar shots, twinlinked, with shred and ignore cover, for 65pts, that means mortar heavy weapon squads will be what, 45pts?

BTW, mortar squads are one of the few things that are bad and overcosted, but actually needs a price drop more than a rules buff. Not that I'd mind twin-linking, but at 45pts I'd run a squad or two for giggles.

Agreed that mortar squads need a price drop to 15 per instead of 20, but compared to the Wyrven, a mortar squad is 3 shots but are troops, rather than HS, a major bonus.

Still, Wyrven is annyoing. Now I plan to get 5 of them, 2 to build as Hydras to go with my FW Hydra, and 3 to build as a Wyrven squadron. I also need to get a ton of volley guns for Scions (13 of them)

I love how we're getting a new barrage mortar weapon and the first comment is "I wonder if it's a good sniper weapon?".

Ah 6th Ed. Never change. Or do.

 DeathzHellShotz wrote:
We still haven't heard word about this 5th kit, unless the box with the chimera is the 5th addition to this release.

A mechanized squad with chimera is hardly a new thing, a limited run bow has existed before (I can't recall if it was during 4th or 5th edition).
So will there really be a fifth new kit ? If real, we should have heard at least a little bit of it now. My guess : that's all folks !

* plastic Stormtroopers (with loads of bitz)
* Taurox (ahemmm ! )
* plastic classical ogryns / shielded ogryns
* Hydra / Wyvern

Not bad, for a release in current rhythm of updates. The Taurox was not needed, nor expected, not even carefully designed, so it lowers the overall reception of the IG wave.
However, we already have a very broad range of miniatures available (not counting OOP models, FW and alternatives brands).
The decisive point will be within the rules and point costs of the codex. Tactically interesting, balanced and competitive force ? Difficult to play, monobuild prone, sub-par army ?

 Ravajaxe wrote:

 DeathzHellShotz wrote:
We still haven't heard word about this 5th kit, unless the box with the chimera is the 5th addition to this release.

A mechanized squad with chimera is hardly a new thing, a limited run bow has existed before (I can't recall if it was during 4th or 5th edition).
So will there really be a fifth new kit ? If real, we should have heard at least a little bit of it now. My guess : that's all folks !

* plastic Stormtroopers (with loads of bitz)
* Taurox (ahemmm ! )
* plastic classical ogryns / shielded ogryns
* Hydra / Wyvern

Not bad, for a release in current rhythm of updates. The Taurox was not needed, nor expected, not even carefully designed, so it lowers the overall reception of the IG wave.
However, we already have a very broad range of miniatures available (not counting OOP models, FW and alternatives brands).
The decisive point will be within the rules and point costs of the codex. Tactically interesting, balanced and competitive force ? Difficult to play, monobuild prone, sub-par army ?

If the Griffon goes away, that will also weaken this release.

 LordotKasrkin wrote:

However the thought of handing GW £60 of my money makes me sick. So I'm going to have to bite my tongue and wait it out for the so-called new Guard codex. After all, there surely aren't any Guard/'Militarum' players who favour Stormtroopers over Leman Russ?

*raises hand*

Any more rumor or leaks on the Vendetta?

I for one hope the Griffon heavy mortar doesn't go away. Most people forget that there are other methods of running Griffons outside of Forgeworld.

May I present:



Which is a Games Workshop model, and of which I have a pair, seen here:



Skirts the issue of "I don't play Forgeworld" as that's not a Forgeworld kit or model. It's all Games Workshop parts. I just hope the Griffon doesn't leave the codex, as it's a fun artillery option and a fantastic heavy support choice. A pair of them costs the same as a Leman Russ and are so very versatile against a majority of opponents. I can't see them removing this (or any of the other artillery kits in the current codex) from the lineup. Hoping for good news on this front soon.

Guess we keep on waiting for the next scrap of news. Starting to feel like a certain orphan you may have heard of in literature. "Please, sir. May I have another?"

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

 Red__Thirst wrote:
Which is a Games Workshop model, and of which I have a pair, seen here

Ditto. One with the original Cadian crew, and the other with Mordian Crew.

 Red__Thirst wrote:
Skirts the issue of "I don't play Forgeworld" as that's not a Forgeworld kit or model. It's all Games Workshop parts.

That will of course be the irony if it reverts back to only FW rules, and if people out there refuse to play against it because it's FW.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Red__Thirst wrote:
Which is a Games Workshop model, and of which I have a pair, seen here

Ditto. One with the original Cadian crew, and the other with Mordian Crew.

 Red__Thirst wrote:
Skirts the issue of "I don't play Forgeworld" as that's not a Forgeworld kit or model. It's all Games Workshop parts.

That will of course be the irony if it reverts back to only FW rules, and if people out there refuse to play against it because it's FW.

It happened before, and if it happens again, there will be people who do so again.