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 Compel wrote:

Rostere wrote:
[
I won't try to translate the names of the first two, but the last relic mentioned was apparently called "Funerary Mask of Ollanius".

Oh hell no. Not content with messing with my Guard, they're managing to screw up the Black Library novels, - some of the last GW things I read - too.

What's wrong with that? Ollanius is a pretty old part of the Heresy fluff.

Yeah, eh. That story originated from one of my favorite pieces of RT guard art, totally fine with it being integrated in the codex some how.

Ah, and Rough Riders are 55 and two of them can take special weapons.

Is there any word yet on what changes (if any) there are for Stormtroopers?

I wonder if anyone will object to me putting down 300 Conscripts, 160 Guardsmen and Company Command Squad on the board as my army at 1750 points.

Any confirmation of Marbo in or out?

And there better be a good reason for 65pt Chimeras. I will laugh/sigh super hard if my Inquisition Codex gets a stealth update to 65 pts too.

 TheKbob wrote:
Any confirmation of Marbo in or out?

And there better be a good reason for 65pt Chimeras. I will laugh/sigh super hard if my Inquisition Codex gets a stealth update to 65 pts too.

If Inquisition gets an update, then that gives us an idea of how GW plans their releases. In other words, they didn't know they were making a Taurox when they wrote Codex: Inquisition...or at least had no idea what the thing would cost.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
Any confirmation of Marbo in or out?

And there better be a good reason for 65pt Chimeras. I will laugh/sigh super hard if my Inquisition Codex gets a stealth update to 65 pts too.

If Inquisition gets an update, then that gives us an idea of how GW plans their releases. In other words, they didn't know they were making a Taurox when they wrote Codex: Inquisition...or at least had no idea what the thing would cost.

Time will tell. They stealth updated the condemer boltgun 2-3 times.

Also, stop getting so excited over the priests, guys. If they are exactly the same as the SoB priests, which this is what it sounds like, war hymns only work in close combat. That being said, I run a BSS with 20 girls, 4 priests, St Celestine, and Coteaz + Xeno Inquisitor to have Divination, Re-roll Armor Saves, Re-roll Wounds, Hit and Run, Rad Grenades, and Psykotroke Grenades. I also include the Liber Heresius to scout the unit forward 6" and my priests get "Litanies of Faith" which allow me to automatically pass all War Hymns checks.

Finally, a slice of fried gold: Priest + Power Maul + Smash is (S3*2) + 2 = S8, Ap2, I3 hits. With load out, thats 2 attacks base, 3 on the charge with priests. You now have CHEAPER Power Fist Sgts that crap out special rules like no tomorrow and are higher strenght, faster initiative.

So you could take 5 Priests from SoB, 5 Priests from Codex IG, put them into a power blob and ask the ever important question: "Will it blend?"

 Mr.Omega wrote:
I wonder if anyone will object to me putting down 300 Conscripts, 160 Guardsmen and Company Command Squad on the board as my army at 1750 points.

I have tried it. you will hate it more than your enemy. (not that exact configuration...)

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Compel wrote:

Rostere wrote:
[
I won't try to translate the names of the first two, but the last relic mentioned was apparently called "Funerary Mask of Ollanius".

Oh hell no. Not content with messing with my Guard, they're managing to screw up the Black Library novels, - some of the last GW things I read - too.

What's wrong with that? Ollanius is a pretty old part of the Heresy fluff.

Personally, I'm glad Ollanius is still "canonically" (for what can pass as a given definition of canon) regarded as a patron saint of the Imperial Guard (or something along those lines, judging by how he has a relic). Sure, the actual "canon" of what ACTUALLY happened with him (so far as we know) is balls-on slowed and lame, but the Imperial Guard trooper of the 40th millenium doesn't have to know that. Even if Ollanius was actually in truth a superhuman perpetual or whatever other seriousness, the Imperial Guardsman of the present day can hold onto the awesome lie that he was just a normal armsman who by giving his life changed the fate of the Imperium.

...................assuming that's the case here, at least.

TiamatRoar wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Compel wrote:

Rostere wrote:
[
I won't try to translate the names of the first two, but the last relic mentioned was apparently called "Funerary Mask of Ollanius".

Oh hell no. Not content with messing with my Guard, they're managing to screw up the Black Library novels, - some of the last GW things I read - too.

What's wrong with that? Ollanius is a pretty old part of the Heresy fluff.

Personally, I'm glad Ollanius is still "canonically" (for what can pass as a given definition of canon) regarded as a patron saint of the Imperial Guard (or something along those lines, judging by how he has a relic). Sure, the actual "canon" of what ACTUALLY happened with him (so far as we know) is balls-on slowed and lame, but the Imperial Guard trooper of the 40th millenium doesn't have to know that. Even if Ollanius was actually in truth a superhuman perpetual or whatever other seriousness, the Imperial Guardsman of the present day can hold onto the awesome lie that he was just a normal armsman who by giving his life changed the fate of the Imperium.

...................assuming that's the case here, at least.

He is being acknowledged. In my mind, he will always be the lone guardsmen who held the line at the most critical time, regardless of what BL or GW says.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheKbob wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
Any confirmation of Marbo in or out?

And there better be a good reason for 65pt Chimeras. I will laugh/sigh super hard if my Inquisition Codex gets a stealth update to 65 pts too.

If Inquisition gets an update, then that gives us an idea of how GW plans their releases. In other words, they didn't know they were making a Taurox when they wrote Codex: Inquisition...or at least had no idea what the thing would cost.

Time will tell. They stealth updated the condemer boltgun 2-3 times.

Also, stop getting so excited over the priests, guys. If they are exactly the same as the SoB priests, which this is what it sounds like, war hymns only work in close combat. That being said, I run a BSS with 20 girls, 4 priests, St Celestine, and Coteaz + Xeno Inquisitor to have Divination, Re-roll Armor Saves, Re-roll Wounds, Hit and Run, Rad Grenades, and Psykotroke Grenades. I also include the Liber Heresius to scout the unit forward 6" and my priests get "Litanies of Faith" which allow me to automatically pass all War Hymns checks.

Finally, a slice of fried gold: Priest + Power Maul + Smash is (S3*2) + 2 = S8, Ap2, I3 hits. With load out, thats 2 attacks base, 3 on the charge with priests. You now have CHEAPER Power Fist Sgts that crap out special rules like no tomorrow and are higher strenght, faster initiative.

So you could take 5 Priests from SoB, 5 Priests from Codex IG, put them into a power blob and ask the ever important question: "Will it blend?"

We know the answer and that answer is "Feth yah".

I'm just geeking out that my all carapace vets and 9 sentinel traitor guard army is sounding better and better. I for one am very excited about this new codex.

What's weirding me out about this codex is the strange opposite polarity of the changes.

We have a some great new additions to the book in ways of new orders, warlord traits (possibly the best of all books), and some point reductions on poor units, like sentinels. Cheaper vet doctrines are nice, though largely offset by the lack of a third special weapon. The tank commander option is good to see as well for the tread heads.

On the flip side, we have the culling of half the arty options for no good reason, and the removal of a few characters. Some will be missed more than others, certainly, like poor Marbo and Al'Rahem, but Bastonne could have been made into something awesome instead of ending up in the recycle folder. Then we have the chimera price hike to justify the Taurox. The Taurox is a negative in my book, though I admit some people may like it, so I'll call it a wash. The vendetta nerf was needed, though I'm hesitant to say it may have been overdone by ~10pts.

Its puzzling. Every so often they get something right, and when they do, its pretty damn good. Those warlord traits are what every warlord table should look like (though you should be able to pick instead of roll, but that's a whole different discussion), and the orders were only enhanced. The stormtrooper platoon is also nice to have.

But when they do something wrong, you're just left wondering how they could have possibly came to that conclusion. The arty cull is just bizarre; what a missed opportunity to do something with the basilisk kit. Its almost like they don't want our money. I'm thinking that Ogryn are still going to be useless, rough riders will likely end up being a footnote in the FA slot where the Vendetta will still rule with an iron fist, and ratlings will remain forgotten in the elite section.

Really, I'm just confused. Disappointed as well.

Ah well, gives me a reason to write up a fandex for the Guard the way it should have been.

Maybe they make design decisions using a dartboard or something. Unbeknowest to them, the darts and way the board is set up just coincidentally ended up being weighted towards making the darts constantly land on the "nerf" section for Ogryns. And one almost wonders if a Carnymancer got his hands on the Tyrannid dart board and darts.

 Blacksails wrote:
What's weirding me out about this codex is the strange opposite polarity of the changes.

We have a some great new additions to the book in ways of new orders, warlord traits (possibly the best of all books), and some point reductions on poor units, like sentinels. Cheaper vet doctrines are nice, though largely offset by the lack of a third special weapon. The tank commander option is good to see as well for the tread heads.

On the flip side, we have the culling of half the arty options for no good reason, and the removal of a few characters. Some will be missed more than others, certainly, like poor Marbo and Al'Rahem, but Bastonne could have been made into something awesome instead of ending up in the recycle folder. Then we have the chimera price hike to justify the Taurox. The Taurox is a negative in my book, though I admit some people may like it, so I'll call it a wash. The vendetta nerf was needed, though I'm hesitant to say it may have been overdone by ~10pts.

Its puzzling. Every so often they get something right, and when they do, its pretty damn good. Those warlord traits are what every warlord table should look like (though you should be able to pick instead of roll, but that's a whole different discussion), and the orders were only enhanced. The stormtrooper platoon is also nice to have.

But when they do something wrong, you're just left wondering how they could have possibly came to that conclusion. The arty cull is just bizarre; what a missed opportunity to do something with the basilisk kit. Its almost like they don't want our money. I'm thinking that Ogryn are still going to be useless, rough riders will likely end up being a footnote in the FA slot where the Vendetta will still rule with an iron fist, and ratlings will remain forgotten in the elite section.

Really, I'm just confused. Disappointed as well.

Ah well, gives me a reason to write up a fandex for the Guard the way it should have been.

It sort of feels like they're trying to rebalance IG with a pivot to infantry rather than artillery and vendettas. Artillery isn't exactly a dynamic part of the game, just sits there. Frankly, my opponents are usually so worried that my basilisk/colossus/medusa never survives to turn 2. That was always the tradeoff, great offense for low cost, but very flimsy for the points cost. The wyvern looks like they want arty to be good against the chaff, but not the elites killers, once those marines get inside your basilisk min 36" range you've got to deal with them in a more conventional manner.

It makes sense, in 6th ed almost all my IG armies are all tanks with 2-3 squads of vets, they might be trying to make the infantry options more enticing. With the new orders, it makes sense.

It'd be nice if we could get ogryns as bodyguards (like Nork) for Commanders, Commissars, and Primaris Psykers. Add lots of combat power and survivability to the HQ choices, even would make sense fluffwise.

Then again, arty technically doesn't have a place in 40k considering the scale. Flyers as well, but I guess that's the nature of 40k.

If 40k removed all arty and flyers and changed the game appropriately, I'd be just fine, but removing some and leaving others (did we anyone want something like the Wyvern?) is strange.

But that's a whole different discussion as well about the scale of 40k.

Here is why vets got a point reduction and less special weapons.

10 man Scion squad kills roughly 4 marines in rapid fire range for 130 points.

An old vet squad with 3 plasma guns kills something closer to 5 marines in their longer rapid fire range for 115 points plus they can threaten higher toughness, vehicles and TEQ. Even with carapace they are only 15 points more than the Scions. They are clearly far and away a better take.

New vet squad with 2 Plasma guns and carapace kill 3 marines for 15 points less than the scion squad. Thus making the decision over which unit to take much harder and less obvious.

Also to be more cynical: the Taurox only has two fire points so if vets had 3 specials nobody would ever put them in the bang bus.

Rob451 wrote:
Here is why vets got a point reduction and less special weapons.

10 man Scion squad kills roughly 4 marines in rapid fire range for 130 points.

An old vet squad with 3 plasma guns kills something closer to 5 marines in their longer rapid fire range for 115 points plus they can threaten higher toughness, vehicles and TEQ. Even with carapace they are only 15 points more than the Scions. They are clearly far and away a better take.

New vet squad with 2 Plasma guns and carapace kill 3 marines for 15 points less than the scion squad. Thus making the decision over which unit to take much harder and less obvious.

Also to be more cynical: the Taurox only has two fire points so if vets had 3 specials nobody would ever put them in the bang bus.

Those fire points are also on the sides; so forget about having that nice 360 degrees fire point the chimera have (had?), got to expose the 10AV side armour to fire those special weapons..or dismount by the side doors.

 Blacksails wrote:
Then again, arty technically doesn't have a place in 40k considering the scale. Flyers as well, but I guess that's the nature of 40k.

If 40k removed all arty and flyers and changed the game appropriately, I'd be just fine, but removing some and leaving others (did we anyone want something like the Wyvern?) is strange.

But that's a whole different discussion as well about the scale of 40k.

I've noticed a lot of neutrality/hostility towards the Wyvern. Is there a reason for that or are the bittervets being bitter? Looks to me like you can decimate a large squad or two a turn if you take a squadron of three provided you keep them alive.

 The Airman wrote:


I've noticed a lot of neutrality/hostility towards the Wyvern. Is there a reason for that or are the bittervets being bitter? Looks to me like you can decimate a large squad or two a turn if you take a squadron of three provided you keep them alive.

The issue comes from the fact that all the other arty pieces that did similar jobs to what the Wyvern does now have been cut. Now we have only have one option; its not bad at dealing with lightly armoured, low toughness chaff, but that's what the Griffon was for anyways. An accurate, large blast was better for putting wounds down if you're opponent is properly spaced out. Then, we lost the colossus, which was our cover ignoring, AP3 MEQ slayer. Finally, the Medusa was nice to punch a hole in something really big.

Instead, we have the Wyvern. Its not bad at shooting at Ork mobs and Nid gribblies, but everything else in the codex does the exact same thing in lesser contested FoC slots.

To me, it reeks of a pure money grab.

You have to remember that shooting under minimum range only means that you scatter full distance rather than subtracting your BS skill (so you still have at minimum of a 33% chance to get a spot on hit).

Another possibility to keep in mind, is while those arty were good...the Escalation book opened up alot of options that did their jobs, but better. colossus? Stormsword & Hellhammer do it with a higher strength, lower AP, larger blast, just at a "shorter" range of 36" on a faster, more durable platform. Medusa? Take a shadowsword and watch enemy armour disappear.

The current crop of rumors suggest we're "losing" these vehicle options right before an edition change that could possibly make escalation/stronghold assault unavoidable

In addition, it give a theory as to why we didn't receive an extra large assault transport for the Ogryn. We already have one called the "Stormlord". Carrying capacity of 40 models, counts as open topped for disembarking and embarking, but doesn't suffer the damage penalty.

edit :grammar

Escalation isn't a replacement for a balanced Codex with units we've had for a few editions.

 Blacksails wrote:
Escalation isn't a replacement for a balanced Codex with units we've had for a few editions.

I never said it would be a good decision, or a balanced one. I am merely suggesting that this could be part of the thought processes behind the scenes.

We already know they want people to play with super-heavies...

Honestly I imagine most of the hostility is because we lost the other arty options. Before it was "confirmed" that we lost a few of the arty options, people were just indifferent. Now that they're "definitely" gone, people are more hostile as it feels like we lost 3 cool tanks for a cheap cash in just because it has an "official" kit and the others didn't.

I don't see hostility here. I see a lot of folks scratching their head or are, like me, just on the side of not giving a damn.

I bought 700pts of Infinity for about $300. That's two tournament sized armies, essentially, from one faction so I have a ton of flexibility.

Setting aside aesthetics and fluff and what not, how much more of this rapid fire and "delete stuff" from books will other vets of the game take their money elsewhere? I know a folks staying in 40k are shifting their purchases "over seas," to save money. I'm pretty much done with GW. I'll run my guardsmen as acolytes from Inquisition and move on, I suppose.

I know artillery doesn't fit the scale of 40k, but that's always been a secret desire for me to have a 9 artillery battery list just hammering home the opponent with blobs of men to throw at them. I guess I'll never get that list now.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Honestly I imagine most of the hostility is because we lost the other arty options. Before it was "confirmed" that we lost a few of the arty options, people were just indifferent. Now that they're "definitely" gone, people are more hostile as it feels like we lost 3 cool tanks for a cheap cash in just because it has an "official" kit and the others didn't.

I don't get the hate though, they are still a legal option even though they are not in the codex proper! Ever heard of IA 1: 2nd edition? Remember the GW owns Forge World, so if it has the '40k aproved' stamp, its approved. Just because the book has Forge World on doesn't mean you should be discouraged from using your Medusas.

Do we know about the allies table? Storm troopers codex lacked chaos allies, I hope they don't kick us out of all the fun with Astra Militarum

Dravenguild wrote:
Do we know about the allies table? Storm troopers codex lacked chaos allies, I hope they don't kick us out of all the fun with Astra Militarum

What did you expect, Battle Brothers with an organization that is made up of people who are raised with the people who would later become Commissars, Priests, and Sororitas?

70 points for Pask? For everything he does it seems pretty awesome to me. Longstrike eat your fishy heart out!

 The Airman wrote:
I've noticed a lot of neutrality/hostility towards the Wyvern. Is there a reason for that or are the bittervets being bitter? Looks to me like you can decimate a large squad or two a turn if you take a squadron of three provided you keep them alive.

I don't really care whether or not it is effective, I just hate how tedious the multiple barrage rules are. Correctly working out the results of 12 twin-linked barrage blasts will take an annoying amount of time. You have to work out how many models each template hits, then allocate and remove models for each template separately. It isn't so bad with a Manticore or a battery of Basilisks, but anyone who has had to fire a thud gun battery will tell you it is a headache. In fact if I ever come up against three Wyverns then I am taking them out first, just so that they stop annoying me.