IG/Astra Militarum Rumours for April (first post updated 12th April)

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**Ravajaxe**

Executioner overheating would certainly hurt, I almost stopped using the plasma sponsons suddenly after 6th ed' dropped (and some game-breaking hull point losses).
I asked him directly to confirm, we will see.

**Kroothawk**

anonymous source on Faeit 212 wrote:Here's some info I gleaned from the upcoming White Dwarf.

Nork Dedogg will come with Bullgryn boxsets, you will have to sacrifice 1-2 models to build him and he acts as a bodyguard for an HQ choice.

There is a 3rd box set being released alongside the Hammer of Cadia and Astra Militarum Defense Forces, Catachan Jungle Fighters set. Set includes 2 squads of Catachans, a command squad, a heavy weapons squad, a chimera and a Russ.

Bullgryns are heavily featured in both the battle report (Orks vs AM) and in their own section. Bullgryns are WS 4 BS 3 STR 5 TO 5 IN 2 A 3 LD 6 Arm 4+, Bone 'ead adds +1 A and LD. They come with Hammer of Wrath, Very Bulky and Stubborn and can take the Taurox or Chimera for transport. Can be taken as a squad of 10.

For the cost of roughly 3 marines they come with Grenade Launchers (12' Range, Assault, Str 4 AP 6 blast) and special shield that gives +1 to cover to any model obscured by them AND +1 to the Bullgryn's armor save if they are adjacent to another model with the same shield.

For the cost of another marine each the Bullgryns can be equipped with Power Mauls and Brute Shields. Brute Shields allow rerolls to Hammer of Wrath wounds and confer a 5++ to the Bullgryn.

The battle report introduces a custom scenario that rewards the Orcs bonus VP based on how far up the battlefield they make it, which seemed pretty orky.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Wait, so we are talking about a T5 3W 3+ unit that gives a defensive boost to soldiers behind it, and can lob blasts around? That sounds pretty nifty.
They are probably going to be very pricy though...

**Smitty**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
kir44n wrote:
...Yes. Executioners main gun now being subject to gets hot is pretty darn rageworthy. It was bad enough I stopped taking the pure plasma bus because the sponsons weren't worth the risk, but now the main gun can do it too? Screw that noise.

Thanks GW, for taking my favorite MC hunte/Terminator Hunter, and turnign it to gak.

On the plus side, I now have a replacement in pask/punisher. Its a shame that he lost the Monstrous Creature part of crack shot though (crack shot game +1 to armor pen, not rerolls, and rerolls to wound on MCs)

To be fair, it's still only on a roll of a one, and the vehicle ignores the glance on a 4+.
It's not as if they didn't reduce the price either; apparently the tanks are now less to compensate for this added risk.

Put Pask in an executioner and reroll those ones. If you get a one yet again, it was simply meant to be.

**TheSilo**

Ravajaxe wrote:
Lobukia wrote:
Calling it now... Wyvern will be auto include in 1 month. The thing is a beast. Really no jk. Put me on record as having said it. I think it will top whirlwinds and TFcannons for sure.

Quoted for the future !
We will see, for the moment given the nerf on hydra, it sounds like wyvern is the superior option in the kit. Having four TL barrages means 8 potential scatter rolls at your disposal, to snipe and optimise yield of your shots. It replaces more or less the Griffon, except having much less power against opposing vehicles. This tank is at the same price than chimera, and given its bulk, can hide small units easily.

Is anyone else more than a little concerned about the disaster that will be trying to lay out four scatter blast templates, re-rolling each? Take a squad of three wyverns and everyone, including you, will hate yourself every time they fire. It's such a clunky way to emulate accuracy, just have it -1" from the scatter! Easy solution.

**CthuluIsSpy**

TheSilo wrote:
Ravajaxe wrote:
Lobukia wrote:
Calling it now... Wyvern will be auto include in 1 month. The thing is a beast. Really no jk. Put me on record as having said it. I think it will top whirlwinds and TFcannons for sure.

Quoted for the future !
We will see, for the moment given the nerf on hydra, it sounds like wyvern is the superior option in the kit. Having four TL barrages means 8 potential scatter rolls at your disposal, to snipe and optimise yield of your shots. It replaces more or less the Griffon, except having much less power against opposing vehicles. This tank is at the same price than chimera, and given its bulk, can hide small units easily.

Is anyone else more than a little concerned about the disaster that will be trying to lay out four scatter blast templates, re-rolling each? Take a squad of three wyverns and everyone, including you, will hate yourself every time they fire. It's such a clunky way to emulate accuracy, just have it -1" from the scatter! Easy solution.

Actually, it's not as clunky as you think. Unlike non-blast weapons, you are allowed to choose if you want to reroll the scatter or not.

So unless the IG player really wants those hits, there shouldn't be that many rerolls.

**Bull0**

creeping-deth87 wrote:
Bull0 wrote:
creeping-deth87 wrote:
It would make perfect sense in the setting if each edition is a leap forward in time, but they aren't. Everything is always stuck at 2 minutes to midnight. It comes off as the regression of technology because reasons.

GW: "Hmm, let's adjust that unit, and hey, we can do it in a fluffy, in-universe thematically consistent way!"

Creeping-Deth87: "You idiots!" *flips table*

...wow, was that really necessary? Do you normally do this when people disagree with you on the internet? I don't understand how anyone can think of an arbitrary change as consistent. There is nothing consistent about retconning the Executioner's coolant away, just like there was nothing consistent about adding gets hot to 6th edition when the whole basis for not having it in 5th was the totally logical assumption that vehicles had coolant.

Do I always what, gently poke fun? Sometimes. Do you always react this badly? Seriously, that was light.

And you're having trouble understanding because I said it was "thematically consistent" and you focussed purely on "consistent". Hope that helps.

**creeping-deth87**

Yeah, adding 'thematically' really doesn't help your case. In fact, it actually makes it worse since theme is the whole reason vehicles didn't have gets hot in 5th edition and why the executioner didn't have it either, so it's actually quite thematically inconsistent to arbitrarily make these changes.

**kir44n**

This was obviously done to eliminate the triple Executioner squadrons we were seeing winning all the top-tier tournaments

**The Airman**

creeping-deth87 wrote:
Yeah, adding 'thematically' really doesn't help your case. In fact, it actually makes it worse since theme is the whole reason vehicles didn't have gets hot in 5th edition and why the executioner didn't have it either, so it's actually quite thematically inconsistent to arbitrarily make these changes.

While that's agreeable, this could just be the Imperium's attempt at fielding more Executioners for the sheer firepower. What would make sense, though, is having a point costed upgrade to make said executioner one of the original ones whereas it ignores Gets hot! saves.

**Red__Thirst**

There's a reason I don't use the Executioner. It's price was one of them (somewhat mitigated now as it's apparently much cheaper)

Secondly, Plasmaboat Leman Russes just didn't feel right, that and any chance to hurt my own vehicle I tended to avoid if possible. That and to field said plasma boat I was paying almost as much as a Land Raider.

Still, may consider running one with just the plasma turret and heavy bolters across the board everywhere else to give it some added dakka. It'll also be much cheaper that way. I prefer not sinking too many points into a single model if I can. I run my standard Leman Russes and Demolishers with just hull mounted Heavy Flamers and other variants typically just get heavy bolter sponsons if that. Heck, I don't even run sponsons on the Vanquisher, opting to just put the Lascannon in the hull and call it a day.

Just my thoughts. Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

**KommissarKarl**

kir44n wrote:
This was obviously done to eliminate the triple Executioner squadrons we were seeing winning all the top-tier tournaments

Executioners were certainly terrifying in my meta. Anyone with marines, terminators, monstrous creatures or light vehicles is terrified of those things, especially if an allied Inquisitor makes them twin-linked. It's even more effective at 1250 since at that level you can fit in three of them plus some troops that don't suck.

**creeping-deth87**

The Airman wrote:
creeping-deth87 wrote:
Yeah, adding 'thematically' really doesn't help your case. In fact, it actually makes it worse since theme is the whole reason vehicles didn't have gets hot in 5th edition and why the executioner didn't have it either, so it's actually quite thematically inconsistent to arbitrarily make these changes.

While that's agreeable, this could just be the Imperium's attempt at fielding more Executioners for the sheer firepower. What would make sense, though, is having a point costed upgrade to make said executioner one of the original ones whereas it ignores Gets hot! saves.

See, THAT is an elegant solution. I would have been totally cool with that, as it allows the studio to introduce gets hot for vehicles without making it seem like a totally arbitrary change from the last edition.

**kir44n**

A demolisher running a Hull Lascannon, and sponson MM used to be a pretty good vehicle/terminator destroyer back in 5th. The removal of Lumbering Behemoth made paying for all those extra guns on a Demolisher a waste of points. I'm not actually sure theres a good main weapon to synergize with the sponson MM's anymore

**Sir Arun**

Well dreadnoughts or sentinels carrying plasma cannons as well as russes with them on their side sponsons now all suffer from gets hot, so i dont really see why the spammed executioner should get special treatment, ESPECIALLY now that its gone down in price by quite a bit and unlike other russes, actually does not suffer from the ordnance nerf. Tank is still viable - are you really that afraid of rolling a 1? Ioncannon Hammerheads and Riptides have to deal with this as well and they arent sucking at all.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

kir44n wrote:
A demolisher running a Hull Lascannon, and sponson MM used to be a pretty good vehicle/terminator destroyer back in 5th. The removal of Lumbering Behemoth made paying for all those extra guns on a Demolisher a waste of points. I'm not actually sure theres a good main weapon to synergize with the sponson MM's anymore

Works great with the Vanquisher. Enemy armor getting within uncomfortable range? Triple the firepower.

**kir44n**

Sir Arun wrote:
Well dreadnoughts or sentinels carrying plasma cannons as well as russes with them on their side sponsons now all suffer from gets hot, so i dont really see why the spammed executioner should get special treatment, ESPECIALLY now that its gone down in price by quite a bit and unlike other russes, actually does not suffer from the ordnance nerf. Tank is still viable - are you really that afraid of rolling a 1? Ioncannon Hammerheads and Riptides have to deal with this as well and they arent sucking at all.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

kir44n wrote:
A demolisher running a Hull Lascannon, and sponson MM used to be a pretty good vehicle/terminator destroyer back in 5th. The removal of Lumbering Behemoth made paying for all those extra guns on a Demolisher a waste of points. I'm not actually sure theres a good main weapon to synergize with the sponson MM's anymore

Works great with the Vanquisher. Enemy armor getting within uncomfortable range? Triple the firepower.

I suppose there is that. So if an enemy deep striked (deep struck?) a Dreadnought in your lines, that loadout could definitely vaporize it. And that loadout (if the sponsons haven't changed cost) would only run 175 pts if the rumors are true. I'm sure Peregrine would argue its an absurd waste of points, but it seems amusing in any case.

**Mr.Omega**

Sir Arun wrote:
Well dreadnoughts or sentinels carrying plasma cannons as well as russes with them on their side sponsons now all suffer from gets hot, so i dont really see why the spammed executioner should get special treatment, ESPECIALLY now that its gone down in price by quite a bit and unlike other russes, actually does not suffer from the ordnance nerf. Tank is still viable - are you really that afraid of rolling a 1? Ioncannon Hammerheads and Riptides have to deal with this as well and they arent sucking at all.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

kir44n wrote:
A demolisher running a Hull Lascannon, and sponson MM used to be a pretty good vehicle/terminator destroyer back in 5th. The removal of Lumbering Behemoth made paying for all those extra guns on a Demolisher a waste of points. I'm not actually sure theres a good main weapon to synergize with the sponson MM's anymore

Works great with the Vanquisher. Enemy armor getting within uncomfortable range? Triple the firepower.

I don't know where this rumour popped up, or even if it popped up at all (from what I can its just a suggestion of what would happen that's now being considered fact) for a start, but allow me to remind you that on average you're losing a hull point every 2 times you fire if the change is put in place.

Murphy's Law dictates that its going to happen at the worst possible time, such as when you're being worn down by long range AT/depending on a glance spammer to roll badly and in a tournament that is unacceptable. You could even roll 3's in a row and lose the tank turn 1- that's far from the least likely thing I've seen happen either.

**Desubot**

Sir Arun wrote:
Riptides have to deal with this as well and they arent sucking at all.

Kinda irrelevant as they get there 2+ armor

But it seems they are getting Divination pyskers anyway so just reroll em 1s lol

**Zengu**

I have to agree. The executioner is still a great tank even if it does get hot. I think their is and will be tons of "fail saves" to keep the 1s from sticking and the points decrease helps off set the cost. The executioner will still be there for me as elite and all around troop killer.

**Puscifer**

I cannot believe the Executioner main gun gets hot.

Gutted beyond belief.

**SkaerKrow**

From what I've seen so far, I think that this book will provide me with a good (temporary) stopping point with 40k. Imperial Guard are pretty much the only 40k army that I've ever enjoyed, and this new book appears to be a bit of a kick to the nuts. I'm not really into the habit of paying people $50 to kick me in the nuts, so...

**shasolenzabi**

Vehicles never got hot before, the plasma had coolers built in, this is just more make all things the same with a slight difference in syrup over vanilla

**TheKbob**

Are we forgetting something. Vehicles get a 4+ save to negate the loss of the HP... so it's not super terrible.

**Uriels_Flame**

SkaerKrow wrote:
I'm not really into the habit of paying people $50 to kick me in the nuts, so...

Here here! Exalted on that one, that's funny.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

TheKbob wrote:
Are we forgetting something. Vehicles get a 4+ save to negate the loss of the HP... so it's not super terrible.

Stop reminding folks of the rules they tend to forget...

**MWHistorian**

I've looked around but couldn't find it:
When will the Guard dex be available in stores?

**Uriels_Flame**

Friday.

**Peregrine**

TheKbob wrote:
Are we forgetting something. Vehicles get a 4+ save to negate the loss of the HP... so it's not super terrible.

But it's still a 1/6 chance to lose your shot. So the point drop is pretty much negated by the divination slave you have to drag around to prescience it every turn.

**Uriels_Flame**

There's my 1%.

**Ravenous D**

MWHistorian wrote:
I've looked around but couldn't find it:
When will the Guard dex be available in stores?

Saturday (technically Friday at midnight).

However the shipments will be in stores tomorrow sitting in boxes waiting. Some stores will be showing them off and if you're lucky can get them early.

**kir44n**

Between the chance (1/12 is still feasible) of losing one of my THREE hullpoints to my own damn shooting, or picking something else to be an MC/Terminator hunter, I'd rather pick a different unit. As it stands, I stopped using plasma sponsons the day I got 2 get hot tests and failed the 4+ save. Killing my own tank made me give that gak up.

There are less suicidal ways to put 3-5 wounds on an MC, or dropping a couple terminators.