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 Lobukia wrote:
Calling it now... Wyvern will be auto include in 1 month. The thing is a beast. Really no jk. Put me on record as having said it. I think it will top whirlwinds and TFcannons for sure.

Quoted for the future !
We will see, for the moment given the nerf on hydra, it sounds like wyvern is the superior option in the kit. Having four TL barrages means 8 potential scatter rolls at your disposal, to snipe and optimise yield of your shots. It replaces more or less the Griffon, except having much less power against opposing vehicles. This tank is at the same price than chimera, and given its bulk, can hide small units easily.

I'm still hoping someone misread the Hydra. If it's genuinely only Skyfire quad autocannons at 70pts, it really is a terrible choice next to a quad gun or the Aeronautica options. Hell, the Hydra autocannons in the Aeronautica book (as mounted on the support platforms) ARE Auto-targetting, Skyfire and Interceptor.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Hell, the Hydra autocannons in the Aeronautica book (as mounted on the support platforms) ARE Auto-targetting, Skyfire and Interceptor.

Those rules are obsolete, and interceptor was probably only included because the book was released so close to 6th and was probably printed before GW decided to only give the Hydra skyfire. The current rules for the Hydra platform, in IA1 (2nd edition) are identical to the current codex Hydra's guns. And I suspect the platform will be FAQed to match the new codex once FW gets around to it.

 Peregrine wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Hell, the Hydra autocannons in the Aeronautica book (as mounted on the support platforms) ARE Auto-targetting, Skyfire and Interceptor.

Those rules are obsolete, and interceptor was probably only included because the book was released so close to 6th and was probably printed before GW decided to only give the Hydra skyfire. The current rules for the Hydra platform, in IA1 (2nd edition) are identical to the current codex Hydra's guns. And I suspect the platform will be FAQed to match the new codex once FW gets around to it.

This is why I hate FW, I can never figure out where the newest damned rules are, lol. Out of interest, is the rules in the Aeronautica book the most recent Vulture, or is that somewhere else too? lol.

You also forget that the Stormraven is a Heavy Support choice in a codex with ridiculously contested HS slots and no unit can choose it as a dedicated transport to free up the slot, while the Vendetta is a FA slot, also in a codex with very contested HS slots.

Big difference. Thats why the Vendetta is a better buy at 170 than the Stormraven is at 200. Your armylist usually always has a free FA slot left, and you can still take 9 LRBTs as your HS choices.

Depends on what SR you're comparing. It's a FA choice for BA. Plus, don't underestimate that value and usefulness of POTMS

Soooo the new codex will let me have cheap Leman Russes and hordes of conscripts? Colour me interested. You guys clearly love to complain, but I can't wait until this codex drops.

 Ravajaxe wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:
Calling it now... Wyvern will be auto include in 1 month. The thing is a beast. Really no jk. Put me on record as having said it. I think it will top whirlwinds and TFcannons for sure.

Quoted for the future !
We will see, for the moment given the nerf on hydra, it sounds like wyvern is the superior option in the kit. Having four TL barrages means 8 potential scatter rolls at your disposal, to snipe and optimise yield of your shots. It replaces more or less the Griffon, except having much less power against opposing vehicles. This tank is at the same price than chimera, and given its bulk, can hide small units easily.

So my buddies and me have had some confusion about this and was wondering if anyone could confirm. Does the wyvern have heavy 4 TL or Heavy 2 TL. there are two cannons mounted on the thing but do those represent a single TL weapon or do both fire 2x TL shots?

 Peregrine wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:
The previous Hydra was written for 5th, and quite rightly GW has realised that giving the new Hydra ignores jink is a tad over the line. There is a fallacy here and with everyone else in this thread that the previous Codex's good units are always done right - the only exception is the Vendetta because of how blatant that it is, and still people have whined in here about it being nerfed.

I'll just ignore the rest of your post, because this is all that matters: your claim that the current Hydra is overpowered is laughably wrong. Hydras are already considered a weak choice that hardly anyone uses, and the new rules make them indisputably worse. The only reason to nerf them is if you're an incompetent moron who thinks that the game should be balanced for 6th edition based on what happened in early 5th edition. Unfortunately that kind of stupidity seems to be mandatory for working at GW...

Oh Peregrine, noone could have put "I concede all arguments fully, can't provide any evidence to the contrary and won't admit I was completely wrong, so I'm just going to waffle about how you're stupid!" in better words.

Tinqle wrote:

 Ravajaxe wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:
Calling it now... Wyvern will be auto include in 1 month. The thing is a beast. Really no jk. Put me on record as having said it. I think it will top whirlwinds and TFcannons for sure.

Quoted for the future !
We will see, for the moment given the nerf on hydra, it sounds like wyvern is the superior option in the kit. Having four TL barrages means 8 potential scatter rolls at your disposal, to snipe and optimise yield of your shots. It replaces more or less the Griffon, except having much less power against opposing vehicles. This tank is at the same price than chimera, and given its bulk, can hide small units easily.

So my buddies and me have had some confusion about this and was wondering if anyone could confirm. Does the wyvern have heavy 4 TL or Heavy 2 TL. there are two cannons mounted on the thing but do those represent a single TL weapon or do both fire 2x TL shots?

They have 2 TL Heavy 2 weapons.

So 4 small blast markers at S4 AP6 in total.

Im just gonna add rocket racks to my current artillery and remove the guns and call it a wyvern. The rules remind me of a rocket launcher.

Thats if it replaces my current artillery.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Yeah, the firepower of the SR can do more damage against some foes, but the 3 TL Lascannons of the Vendetta are more focused. S9 AP2 vs S8 AP3 makes a big difference for taking out vehicles or TEQs or other flyers, which it the Vendetta's forte. If you drop the melta on the SR, you've also reduced its range to 24" vs the 48" for all the Vendetta's Lascannons.

I don't necessarily disagree in a pure head to head, the SR is better, but I don't think the difference is all that huge, especially when you consider the Vendetta is a 12/12/10 vehicle in an army full of 12+ armour vehicles, and now that the Vendetta is more expensive, you'll quite possibly see a couple of regular Valkyries alongside it.

IG can bring a lot of armour and that does factor in to the equation. With the increased cost of the Vendetta, I'm actually considering getting some Vultures to compliment them.

um.... no?

1. If you drop the melta on the SR, its lowest range is 48"
2. If you are using a vendetta to take out terminators, there is something you are not doing right.
3. The vendetta is for taking out fliers, 3 TL Str9 ap2 is always worse at taking down fliers than 1 TL str9 ap2, 2 str8 ap2 and a typhoon/TL MM. I can do the math upon request.
4, POTMS, 12 model/1 dread capacity, melta immunits, and the fact the weapons are better versus virtually everything compared to the vendetta, it is really clear the vendetta has been outclassed in every way.
5. You can take the storm raven with an IG army (allies, formations, etc), so the fact that IG can bring a lot of armor doesn't factor into the equation.
6. The fact anyone would consider getting vultures over the last edition vendetta would be insane, its sad that this edition, it is considered in the realm of sanity.

"2. If you are using a vendetta to take out terminators, there is something you are not doing right."

What if you are so good all enemy vehicles have been taken out by the time your flyer comes and the only worthy targets are terminators?

Or should the craft just not shoot

Sorry just being a pain

The vulture sucks with the punishers. Mine has fired hundreds of rounds and the killed 1 model. Just one. I know its just bad rolling, but unless there is a rear end of a vehicle to shoot at they generally disappoint. But they look very cool. I havent tried the vulture with other load outs though.

 Ryan_A wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Yeah, the firepower of the SR can do more damage against some foes, but the 3 TL Lascannons of the Vendetta are more focused. S9 AP2 vs S8 AP3 makes a big difference for taking out vehicles or TEQs or other flyers, which it the Vendetta's forte. If you drop the melta on the SR, you've also reduced its range to 24" vs the 48" for all the Vendetta's Lascannons.

I don't necessarily disagree in a pure head to head, the SR is better, but I don't think the difference is all that huge, especially when you consider the Vendetta is a 12/12/10 vehicle in an army full of 12+ armour vehicles, and now that the Vendetta is more expensive, you'll quite possibly see a couple of regular Valkyries alongside it.

IG can bring a lot of armour and that does factor in to the equation. With the increased cost of the Vendetta, I'm actually considering getting some Vultures to compliment them.

um.... no?

1. If you drop the melta on the SR, its lowest range is 48"

Since when is the Multi-Melta's range 48"?

2. If you are using a vendetta to take out terminators, there is something you are not doing right.

Given no enemy vehicles or flyers, yeah, I'll be targeting elite infantry with a 2+ save.

3. The vendetta is for taking out fliers, 3 TL Str9 ap2 is always worse at taking down fliers than 1 TL str9 ap2, 2 str8 ap2 and a typhoon/TL MM. I can do the math upon request.
4, POTMS, 12 model/1 dread capacity, melta immunits, and the fact the weapons are better versus virtually everything compared to the vendetta, it is really clear the vendetta has been outclassed in every way.

Yes, the Vendetta is outclassed... but the SR is 18% more expensive... so it should be outclassed in.

5. You can take the storm raven with an IG army (allies, formations, etc), so the fact that IG can bring a lot of armor doesn't factor into the equation.

By all means take allies and get the best of all worlds, I was just looking at the Vendetta as an IG vehicle that transports IG troops in an IG army where it can be taken in a squadron of 1-3 for a FA.

6. The fact anyone would consider getting vultures over the last edition vendetta would be insane, its sad that this edition, it is considered in the realm of sanity.

The fact no one would consider a Vulture over a Vendetta last edition was because the Vendetta was the most underpriced gunship in the game, lol. The Vulture isn't bad, there was just no reason to take it when you can instead take a Vendetta.

I'm not trying to say a Vendetta is a better option than a SR, just that I don't think the difference is all that massive for 170pts vs 200pts. The Vendetta probably should have been more around 160pts, but even at 170pts its mostly on par with other flyers even though it's not the best. I still think it's a better option than a Crimson Hunter.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Tinqle wrote:

 Ravajaxe wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:
Calling it now... Wyvern will be auto include in 1 month. The thing is a beast. Really no jk. Put me on record as having said it. I think it will top whirlwinds and TFcannons for sure.

Quoted for the future !
We will see, for the moment given the nerf on hydra, it sounds like wyvern is the superior option in the kit. Having four TL barrages means 8 potential scatter rolls at your disposal, to snipe and optimise yield of your shots. It replaces more or less the Griffon, except having much less power against opposing vehicles. This tank is at the same price than chimera, and given its bulk, can hide small units easily.

So my buddies and me have had some confusion about this and was wondering if anyone could confirm. Does the wyvern have heavy 4 TL or Heavy 2 TL. there are two cannons mounted on the thing but do those represent a single TL weapon or do both fire 2x TL shots?

They have 2 TL Heavy 2 weapons.

So 4 small blast markers at S4 AP6 in total.

Thanks for the clarification. Dare I say it that sounds bad-ass and a squadron of two will be an awesome addition to my catachan force.


http://s961.photobucket.com/user/nestastiles/library/Imperial%20Guard?sort=3&page=1

 Swastakowey wrote:
The vulture sucks with the punishers. Mine has fired hundreds of rounds and the killed 1 model. Just one. I know its just bad rolling, but unless there is a rear end of a vehicle to shoot at they generally disappoint. But they look very cool. I havent tried the vulture with other load outs though.

That is some terrible rolling. Even if you're shooting at 2+ armour save T4 infantry, the chance of getting less than 2 kills in 100 shots is only about a third of one percent... less than 2 kills in 200 shots is ~0.0003%.

Those Catachans are so cool. Very impressed.

You hoping for a Catachan supplement?

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
The vulture sucks with the punishers. Mine has fired hundreds of rounds and the killed 1 model. Just one. I know its just bad rolling, but unless there is a rear end of a vehicle to shoot at they generally disappoint. But they look very cool. I havent tried the vulture with other load outs though.

That is some terrible rolling. Even if you're shooting at 2+ armour save T4 infantry, the chance of getting less than 2 kills in 100 shots is only about a third of one percent... less than 2 kills in 200 shots is ~0.0003%.

Actually I forgot that Vulture punishers are TL, it's even less than that, lol.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
The vulture sucks with the punishers. Mine has fired hundreds of rounds and the killed 1 model. Just one. I know its just bad rolling, but unless there is a rear end of a vehicle to shoot at they generally disappoint. But they look very cool. I havent tried the vulture with other load outs though.

That is some terrible rolling. Even if you're shooting at 2+ armour save T4 infantry, the chance of getting less than 2 kills in 100 shots is only about a third of one percent... less than 2 kills in 200 shots is ~0.0003%.

I know, its killed one grey knight terminator. They just keep passing saves. It hasnt partook in many games yet but 20 shots a turn easily gets over 100 shots in 3 games. I am assuming its made over 100 shots in 3 games.

 Swastakowey wrote:
Those Catachans are so cool. Very impressed.

You hoping for a Catachan supplement?

Thanks IG has always been my favorite army to paint. hopefully the catachans get a supplement cuz I'm sitting on like 3000 points of them lol. Even with the loss of the catachan characters I'm still enjoying what I've seen so far including; ruses as HQ's, an awesome set of warlord traits, and cheaper vet squads. Not happy about the chimera and manticore point increase though.
Something like the apoc catachan devils formation would be cool and fluffy as a data slate or something

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Ryan_A wrote:


1. If you drop the melta on the SR, its lowest range is 48"

Since when is the Multi-Melta's range 48"?

I suggest you re-read what he wrote especially the bold word

 sonofruss wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Ryan_A wrote:


1. If you drop the melta on the SR, its lowest range is 48"

Since when is the Multi-Melta's range 48"?

I suggest you re-read what he wrote especially the bold word

Ah sorry, it was originally my mistake, I said "drop the melta on the SR" I meant "drop the melta on to the SR", lol.

Ok so I'm gradually getting through this, but I'm really wondering if there is a list of tank orders? I thought I saw some somewhere but I can't remember where...

MOD - please lock this thread.

We're not talking about the releases anymore.

We have 40+ pages of just bitching and one person who doesn't seem to want to listen to reason.

When I first heard about these rumors about the new codex I was really angry. Now I have had time to let the nerd rage calm down I actually really like it!

As a pure infantry user I was really annoyed that I wouldn't get to use my favorite tricks (I always uses outflanking platoons and never ending men), but I can still use my conscripts and platoons, just got to change the strategies.

For example, My conscripts now are going to have priests and commisars to make them awesome in close combat and have good morale. Combine this with the new "move shoot move" order and you are going to have a unit that can get up the board quickly to threaten your enemies deployment zone and objectives and lay down some serious firepower on the way.

Also with the changes to points cost to conscripts and all the points I will be saving not buying Chenkov and send in the next wave and I can field almost double to amount of conscripts I used to use! I have gone from having 75 conscripts who never die (but also rarely move up field) to 120 that will never run away and mash any infantry to death they come across! and all that for a mere 510 points! that leaves me so much room in an 1850 list to buy lots and lots of anti tank!

Also the really cheap tanks are making me giddy with excitement! I don't normally run them but If I am going into a 1850 tournament and I spend 1000 points on my infantry (510 mentioned earlier plus a cheap 3 platoons I need to take that many conscripts and some upgrades for them like autocannons plus a cheap HQ) I can then get myself 4 AV 14 tanks for 480 points! So that leaves me with 370 points which I can spend 340 off on vendettas and still have 30 points left over, which i use to upgrade my HQ to either creed of al'rhaem if it lets me outflanks a huge conscript unit!

So for 1850 points I can get roughly 209 infantry, 4 heavy Tanks and 2 Flyers, with the potential to outflank 50 infantry! That is awesome!

Sorry for the huge amount of text but what I am trying to point out is we do have some genuine reasons to be really excited for this codex, It may just require some new ways of thinking for some people. But isn't that a good thing, I mean whats to point in bringing out a new codex if its not gonna introduce new ways of playing the same army?

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
MOD - please lock this thread.

We're not talking about the releases anymore.

We have 40+ pages of just bitching and one person who doesn't seem to want to listen to reason.

First of all, this thread has done nothing but talk about releases. Its just the discussion now, which happens.

Second, who is the person who doesn't want to listen to reason?

Third, if you really feel so inclined, the little yellow triangle in the corner is how you alert the mods.

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
MOD - please lock this thread.

We're not talking about the releases anymore.

We have 40+ pages of just bitching and one person who doesn't seem to want to listen to reason.

Seriously... we're in the first weeks of the IG release and you want the IG rumours thread locked and start a new one.... which will be exactly the same as this one?

To those that complain they can't find any information : They always UPDATE the first post with any updated rumors (its even in the thread title).

Everything else we see is going to be discussion of the rumors. What you may call "whining" is another persons criticism, just like how another persons "white knigt defense of GW" can be a positive reception to the rumors.

I will say that if the Priest & Commissar rumors are true, bullgryn won't be so bad. Take a bullgryn unit with power mauls & "brute shields", attach Commissar for LD and Priest for Fearless & other assorted priest goodies. You have a majority toughness 5 unit, with the bullgryns at a 3+/5++ armor, 3 wounds each, that give 4+ cover to units that are behind them. And will do work in close combat with the power mauls and the priests hymns.

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
MOD - please lock this thread.

We're not talking about the releases anymore.

We have 40+ pages of just bitching and one person who doesn't seem to want to listen to reason.

Just give it two weeks and it will die on its own, like these treads always do after the book comes out.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-owd__UepaOI/U0BKK3BdDjI/AAAAAAAAJcY/lkylpxjV_0s/s1600/unnamed+(5).jpg

That's the tank orders right? Can someone please help me with a translation?