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Today at the local GW store,

My 1500p necrons went up against 4 knight titans
my necrons were prob best suited for this battle and my list was catered, I knew I was going up against them

Necron list

Nemesar + Obyron
2 necron lords with WS and Orbs

20 warriors
15 warriors
15 warriors

2 doom scythes

He used 1 knight titan with the battle cannon? as his HQ
the other 3 had the melta gun option

I got first turn, and won the side I wanted (more cover)
We rolled a 1 for mission... 4 objectives
My warlord trait was to choose night fighting.. which I did
His warlord trait gave him +1" to charges
he rolls for his 3 titans, 1 rolls 1, 1 rolls 6
so 1 is a little weaker, and 1 is a little stronger

I deployed...
I put 20 warriors with obyron and lord into the left corner in a ruin,
I put 15 warriors with lord into a forest in the center of the board, on an objective
and 15 warriors with nemesar in area terrain first level of a ruin on an objective.. right side of the board
2 scythes in reserve

he placed 3 titans in a row center of the board as far back as he could, and 1 in thr corner across from nemesars unit

he didnt steal intiative

my turn.. unit in forest rolls for mysterious objective... half charge distance (good for me)
Nemesars unit in area terrain on objective rolls +1 to cover saves (awesome)
I move some models around, nothing in range,
end of my turn
Titans first turn,
no movement
3 titans in the middle of the board all take turns shooting at my unit in the forest,
with nightfighting i get a 3+ cover save,
after all 3 shoot I lose 8 models, and 5 resurrect
his hq shoots thru a door at my nemesar unit, which gets a 2+ cover save, I lose nothing

my turn 2
both doom scythes come on..

the 3 titans in a row... the left one has the 3++, the middle has the 5++ and the right one has the 4++

1 doom scythe flies at an angle towards the left, the other doom flies towards the right one.
my 20 warrior unit with obyron deepstrike and scatter about 8" infront of the right knight
nemesar gives obyrons unit tank hunters
obyrons unit lands within 3" of an objective, I roll and it gives +1 cover saves
2 of the warriors land in difficult terrain but pass the tests

the left doomscythe schoots at the tough titan with the tesla destructor, 1 glance
it shoots the line attack and its all 3 with S10 AP1
on the left titan, nothing, the middle titan, a pen, and on the right titan, a glance
the pen and glances are unsaved and the pen rolls an explosion and ends up dealing 3HP

the right doom scythe shoots the right titan, nothing
then the line attack hits all three again,
same thing...
left titan nothing, middle titan pen, right titan glance,
this time the right one makes its save and the middle only loses 1hp

left titan has 5HP left, middle titan has 2HP left, and right titan has 5HP left

The 20 warrior unit shoots at the weaker middle knight titan, and glances it to death.. First blood

End of my turn

His turn, left titan moves 12" to the left, and right titan moves a few inches forward towards warrior unit
everything shoots at my 20 warrior squad, I go to ground.. and the objective buffs me to a 5+ cover save

all three knight titans shoot everything at my unit... the melta shots do lots of damage, and obyron tanks most of the AP3 shots from his HQ
All that is left is Obyron with 1 wound and 1 warrior (perfect Ill get my reanimation)
but then I go ahead and fail a morale test and fall back 7"
his right titan needs a 12" to charge obyron and my last warrior...
he rolls 2 6's and makes it in..
he attacks first with 4 attacks... misses 3... and the 1 that hits he rolls a 1
obyron gets 3 attacks plus 3 attacks that the titan missed with... for 6 attacks total with his warscythe
he ends up dealing 3 pens... 2 explodes, and destroys the titan...
we forgot to do hammer of wrath so I let him do it at the end and my warrior dies... obyron is alone

End of his turn
2 titans left
my doom scythes criss cross, left goes to the right and heads for HQ hiding in the corner,
the right doom scythe goes right and ends up right infront of the second titan..
obyron deepstrikes back to nemesars unit and joins it..
the doom scythe shoots at hq and deals 1hp loss
the other doomscythe does nothing
end of my turn
his titans dont move
he shoots the knight titan at my unit in the forest, they go to ground for a 4+, after reanimation I only lost 2
his HQ shoots at nemesars unit.. no wounds
end of his turn
top of turn 4,
my doom scythes leave the board
nemesars unit, sitting on the objective.. I could leave him hiding back but I wanted to kill stuff
so I try to deepstrike the unit by his left titan, and mishap, he puts them almost exactly where they were but off the objective and in difficult terrain
I lose none of them...
im out of range with all my warriors so I do nothing..
bottom of turn 4,
his HQ titan moves out 12 inches towards an objective and shoots two large blasts at my HQ unit (which are all in a nice ball from the deepstrike attempt)
nemesar was at the front and tanks almost all of the attacks, he takes 2 wounds and I lose 1 warrior
his other titan shoots at my warriors in the forest, after reanimation I lose nothing
top of turn 5
both doom scythes come on and get side armor on his regular titan.. and my nemesar unit deepstrikes but scatters out of rapidfire range of him
he puts his shield up against the doomscythes side armor
both doom scythes shoot and only land 1hp loss to him
the unit of warriors with obyron and nemesar shoot at him with tank hunters, and glance him to death...
bottom of turn 5
his hq unit moves to the objective, and its about 5 inches from my hq unit...
he shoots and destroys the entire unit.. obyron and nemesar get their everliving rolls... they both come back
he charges them thru difficult terrain, obyron stikes first with 3 attacks, inficts 4hps of damage to the titan leaving him with 1hp left, and the titan destroyes both of them

at this point I have first blood and an objective, he has slay warlord and 1 objective

he rolls, we get turn 6,
my doomscythes come on and destroy his HQ, game over

Good showing for the knights seeing they were up against a tailored list plus you had good cover out the gazoo.

I definitely had a few vital things so my way,
including him lining his models up for my doom scythes...
and I def had the advantage of bringing all things that could hurt him
they are very cool models and I enjoyed playing them,
they definitely have their weaknesses, and bringing only them.. cover saves just save the day against these things...
considering 4 of them is almost 1500p,
I dont think they have enough firepower to take out a 1500p army, they are tough to kill even with a tailored list but for almost 400p I think they need some more options.. including something that can shoot flyers

I think i would have just put your mishap models out in the open to shoot them.

Do Knights have anything to deal with flyers? I think Flyers are rough for them.

You need to get a pic of his knights I'd love to see a bunch together.

I believe the word that you are looking for here is "tailored", not "catered".

Tailored* there you go...
and right now, he has 3 knight titans and borrowed the 4th
2 are still just plastic, and 2 are primed black,
I wont be back down there for a While but Ill take a pic next time Im down there

well to me you save tons of points to me using 25 point crytecs voltiac staff get 3 or 4 nightscythes and put 5 to 10 warroirs in each and 2 cytecs in each group have to overlords to do this and there you go and also have a 2 2 man squads or heavy destroyers that have perferred enemy with str 9 ap 2 guns so there you go.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
i mean 2 of 3 man squads of heavy deastroyers

I was going to take the flyers out of the list completely because he had nothing to shoot at them with, but he told me to keep them in... said he will have to play against flyers sometime anyways, so we just left it with 2

and the most devistating thing against him was the warriors
the doomscythes seem scary but arent,
especially a unit of 20 warriors with tank hunters

I like the knight titans and they are super tough
but I dont think they have enough fire power for how much they cost
if you get good cover against the knight titans your fine

I can't get over the use of catered because now I am imagining that you were feeding him small bits of Necrons during the game with a spoon.

I have to ask.. Did you guys forget the apocalyptic blast? Even when glanced to death all super heavies explode on the dice table.

Knight Titans??

Are night titans the massive dreadnought type things?

I'm pretty sure per escalation rules - tank hunter does not work on imperial knights. Their immune to everything but Titan hunter.

Kal-El wrote:
I'm pretty sure per escalation rules - tank hunter does not work on imperial knights. Their immune to everything but Titan hunter.

No. SHV are not immune to "everything"

They are immune to everything on the vehicle damage chart (except explosion, which only deals D3 hull points), instant kill abilities (basically anything that instantly destroys it; it takes D3 HP instead) and anything that permanently reduces their armor value. That's it.

They can still be hurt by lances.
They can still be Haywired
They can still be gaussed to death
They can still be melta'd / armorbaned
They can still be Tank Hunted
They can still be grav'd (though the immobilization effect doesn't occur)

No idea where people are getting the idea that SHV are immune to everything...

They are immune to tank hunter per escalation pg 95 slayer of giants

Kal-El wrote:
They are immune to tank hunter per escalation pg 95 slayer of giants

i think thats a technicality in that they are only immune if your using the escalation rules, dont think there codex has this rule in it

Kal-El wrote:
They are immune to tank hunter per escalation pg 95 slayer of giants

Nope. Slayer of Giants is an anti-SHV warlord trait that gives the Warlord armorbane and fleshbane against Lords of War in CC. Which a Knight isn't.

Ah, wait, there's a mission specific table that has a ability called "Slayer of Giants" that confers to the Lord of War Tank Hunter.
Still not immune to it, and still not applicable to knights.

Maybe we have different versions of the book?

Unless it's listed under Invincible Behemoth, the Super Heavy isn't immune to it.

What is the wording under your version?

This rule gives the "tank hunter" special rule BUT it also now works against super heavies. The distinction of the rule is presented, and in order to do away with the presumption that only Titan hunter allows re-rolls, we have to answer why the distinction needed to be made in the first place. Tank hunters rules says "any vehicle", but still why does Titan hunters exist? I think the answer is clear on that, otherwise Titan hunter would not even be in the game.

Also escalation rules are part of the normal 40k game now as well so we can't omit that fact.

Ah, so it's only in the hard copy version then? I have the digital copy. It just comes up as Tank Hunter there.

Which, considering that tank hunter does not show up under the invincible behemoth rules, could meant that hard copy is flawed, or that the writer was trying to be clever (ie - Spiky Landraiders are just like landraiders, but spiky!)

So unless you have a rule that flat out states that SHV are immune to Tank Hunter without resorting to speculation on the wording of some vague trait that shows up for 1 mission, then I'm afraid I will have to continue to disagree.

There's also the fact that such a "rule" was not mentioned in Apocalypse (Escalation's Source), nor in the Knight's Codex. So it's validity is quite dubious.

If you tailored a list you made things harder for yourself there

2 Overlords - 180
2 royal courts, each with 4 stormteks - 200

5 warriors: scythe - 165
5 warriors: scythe - 165
5 warriors: scythe - 165
5 warriors: scythe - 165

Doom scythe - 175
Doom scythe - 175

1,390 points.
You can also cut those doom's out too and add in 2 more warrior scythe units and 2 more stormteks.



Granted, this list will struggle with a few armies, but against knights it tanks them pretty damn well.
I play a few people who like land raiders far more than is healthy, so i run stormteks pretty often.
Sometimes even taking 5 + overlord + 2 lords in a unit.

They really do tear through most things when each unit has 3 scythes and 20 haywire shots. (or 16 if you take a veiltek)

The digital versions are updated with FAQ's and so on so i'd rather belive the Digital versions these days than the Hardback ones.

 phatonic wrote:
The digital versions are updated with FAQ's and so on so i'd rather belive the Digital versions these days than the Hardback ones.

Wait, really? Side note here, but is this things like full on codexes and such? Like, theoretically, could they have FAQd something in my codex's digital version and I would not know because the website FAQ hasn't been updated?

That worries me. I don't want my opponent telling me my army is played wrong and actually being right. Not having access to an e-reader shouldn't be a handicap...

 dementedwombat wrote:

 phatonic wrote:
The digital versions are updated with FAQ's and so on so i'd rather belive the Digital versions these days than the Hardback ones.

Wait, really? Side note here, but is this things like full on codexes and such? Like, theoretically, could they have FAQd something in my codex's digital version and I would not know because the website FAQ hasn't been updated?

That worries me. I don't want my opponent telling me my army is played wrong and actually being right. Not having access to an e-reader shouldn't be a handicap...

Yep. I'm not too happy about it either.
Hopefully they'll get their act together when they redesign the site. Hopefully.

 dementedwombat wrote:

 phatonic wrote:
The digital versions are updated with FAQ's and so on so i'd rather belive the Digital versions these days than the Hardback ones.

Wait, really? Side note here, but is this things like full on codexes and such? Like, theoretically, could they have FAQd something in my codex's digital version and I would not know because the website FAQ hasn't been updated?

That worries me. I don't want my opponent telling me my army is played wrong and actually being right. Not having access to an e-reader shouldn't be a handicap...

The digital versions are written later than the hardback, sometimes it's not even a FAQ. it's just a redo from what is written in the hardcover as it's made earlier.
GW are known for being lazy on checking trough their stuff before releasing.

 phatonic wrote:

 dementedwombat wrote:

 phatonic wrote:
The digital versions are updated with FAQ's and so on so i'd rather belive the Digital versions these days than the Hardback ones.

Wait, really? Side note here, but is this things like full on codexes and such? Like, theoretically, could they have FAQd something in my codex's digital version and I would not know because the website FAQ hasn't been updated?

That worries me. I don't want my opponent telling me my army is played wrong and actually being right. Not having access to an e-reader shouldn't be a handicap...

The digital versions are written later than the hardback, sometimes it's not even a FAQ. it's just a redo from what is written in the hardcover as it's made earlier.
GW are known for being lazy on checking trough their stuff before releasing.

Well, at least it's not making the updates digital only, which is what one of the fears was.

"CthulusSpy" said:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah, so it's only in the hard copy version then? I have the digital copy. It just comes up as Tank Hunter there.

Which, considering that tank hunter does not show up under the invincible behemoth rules, could meant that hard copy is flawed, or that the writer was trying to be clever (ie - Spiky Landraiders are just like landraiders, but spiky!)

So unless you have a rule that flat out states that SHV are immune to Tank Hunter without resorting to speculation on the wording of some vague trait that shows up for 1 mission, then I'm afraid I will have to continue to disagree.

There's also the fact that such a "rule" was not mentioned in Apocalypse (Escalation's Source), nor in the Knight's Codex. So it's validity is quite dubious.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I say: It's clearly in black and white right there. I presented evidence that validates my claim. You haven't provided anything. So until you do provide concrete evidence that tank hunter (not titan hunter) works on a super heavy then you don't have a leg to stand on I'm afraid.

If you had wanted to tailor it you could have done.

2 Overlord

4 Storm teks

13 warriors in a Scythe

13 warriors in a Scythe

10 immortals w gauss

3 Hv Destroyers

Triarch stalker

the remain points spent on overlord upgrades or named IC's

Also just wondering as you did not mention it what effect did the explosion have on the battle, as when a super heavy loses its last HP it explodes and scatters?.

Knights arent Lords of War though

Kal-El wrote:
"CthulusSpy" said:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah, so it's only in the hard copy version then? I have the digital copy. It just comes up as Tank Hunter there.

Which, considering that tank hunter does not show up under the invincible behemoth rules, could meant that hard copy is flawed, or that the writer was trying to be clever (ie - Spiky Landraiders are just like landraiders, but spiky!)

So unless you have a rule that flat out states that SHV are immune to Tank Hunter without resorting to speculation on the wording of some vague trait that shows up for 1 mission, then I'm afraid I will have to continue to disagree.

There's also the fact that such a "rule" was not mentioned in Apocalypse (Escalation's Source), nor in the Knight's Codex. So it's validity is quite dubious.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I say: It's clearly in black and white right there. I presented evidence that validates my claim. You haven't provided anything. So until you do provide concrete evidence that tank hunter (not titan hunter) works on a super heavy then you don't have a leg to stand on I'm afraid.

Ok. SHV are vehicles.

"Super-heavy vehicles use all of the rules for vehicles as defined in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook, with the additional rules and exceptions given below."

Tank Hunter works on vehicles.

Ergo, Tank Hunter works on SHVs. Invincible Behemoth, which covers what SHV are immune to and is present in three different sources, does not change this fact.

Which I already explained.

Now, explain to me how the supposed "tank hunter immunity" is valid and is not an error, considering how it only shows up in the printed copy of escalation, and not even under the SHV rules section.

As per the current argument regarding tank hunter and SHV, it comes does to this.

Is a SHV a Vehicle? if it is a Vehicle then what Specific rule given to SHV voids tank hunter?

If a SHV is not a vehicle then then what is it?

Where is the rule that states that a SHV is not affected by tank hunter? I have gone through the entire escalation book and I can not find where it states such a thing.