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 RobZie wrote:

 easysauce wrote:
why are MC orks not fluffy?

IMO a warboss is supposed to be the ORIGINAL MC...

plus in the fluff they are supposed to have no upper limit to their size and strength.

thats exactly what the orks need is a MC or two, MC warbosses would be both fun, fluffy, and effective!

why would it be a bad thing that a gigantic ORGANIC creature is a MC? I literally cant think of anything about a MC ork that doesnt scream "cooooooool"

Its not the fact that warbosses being MCs is unfluffy, like you say it very fluffy. However an Ork that is larger than a warboss and not an HQ choice OR the warboss/ warlord itself is very unfluffy.

thats why I think the warboss should be an MC... or at least have the option to upgrade.. if the warboss is the biggest ork in the bunch, why couldnt he be a MC? that just proves e's da boss!

if not the warboss, its going to be a giant squig or something... I wouldnt say no to one of the dreads being a MC in rules, or anything to make them non wastes.

Dreads are walkers. That's not changing. They look like walkers and share a name with other walkers, namely Dreadnoughts.

Warbosses as MCs doesn't work as a regular thing. Yeah, there's stories in the fluff about legendary Warbosses who are enormous, but they're rare. If there was a unit that was a "Megaboss" or something of the sort, which was an MC Warboss, that'd be neat. Standard Warbosses are fine as is though.

Just maybe an orky equivalent of a Dreadknight, i.e. a giant dredd piloted by an ork boss? I'm still not seeing an _organic_ MC for orks...

 Clang wrote:
Just maybe an orky equivalent of a Dreadknight, i.e. a giant dredd piloted by an ork boss? I'm still not seeing an _organic_ MC for orks...

As mentioned earlier squiggoths would fit the bill.

 Brother SRM wrote:
Dreads are walkers. That's not changing. They look like walkers and share a name with other walkers, namely Dreadnoughts.

Warbosses as MCs doesn't work as a regular thing. Yeah, there's stories in the fluff about legendary Warbosses who are enormous, but they're rare. If there was a unit that was a "Megaboss" or something of the sort, which was an MC Warboss, that'd be neat. Standard Warbosses are fine as is though.

Chapter masters are rare, possibly only 1k of them if every chapter actually has one, bet there are more warlord Orks than there are chapter masters

 Brother SRM wrote:
Dreads are walkers. That's not changing. They look like walkers and share a name with other walkers, namely Dreadnoughts.

Warbosses as MCs doesn't work as a regular thing. Yeah, there's stories in the fluff about legendary Warbosses who are enormous, but they're rare. If there was a unit that was a "Megaboss" or something of the sort, which was an MC Warboss, that'd be neat. Standard Warbosses are fine as is though.

So... is there like a Yarick factory somewhere? Yeah, a MC IC HQ warboss would be rare, but since when does that matter?

maceria wrote:

 Brother SRM wrote:
Dreads are walkers. That's not changing. They look like walkers and share a name with other walkers, namely Dreadnoughts.

Warbosses as MCs doesn't work as a regular thing. Yeah, there's stories in the fluff about legendary Warbosses who are enormous, but they're rare. If there was a unit that was a "Megaboss" or something of the sort, which was an MC Warboss, that'd be neat. Standard Warbosses are fine as is though.

So... is there like a Yarrick factory somewhere? Yeah, a MC IC HQ warboss would be rare, but since when does that matter?

There is really only one Yarrick. Just because tons of people use him does not mean that there is more than one.

 Brother SRM wrote:
Dreads are walkers. That's not changing. They look like walkers and share a name with other walkers, namely Dreadnoughts.

Warbosses as MCs doesn't work as a regular thing. Yeah, there's stories in the fluff about legendary Warbosses who are enormous, but they're rare. If there was a unit that was a "Megaboss" or something of the sort, which was an MC Warboss, that'd be neat. Standard Warbosses are fine as is though.

To fix the dread issues.... Simply make the dread AV 13 and the kans AV 12. Leave everything else the same.

I highly doubt GW is going to actually fix any of the issues with the Ork codex...like adding more answers for MC's, more reliable anti-tank, etc. They have fixed almost literally none of the issues with every single other army that got a 6th edition update so far, even the "OP" ones like Tau and Eldar, which have mainly ridden to the top on the back of one or two broken units and/or a couple of new over-the-top gimmicks/special rules. If anything Orks are going to be mostly copy/paste, with a couple of unnecessary or unwarranted nerfs, a couple characters getting models or removed from the codex entirely (bye Wazdakka), and a couple of new kits which have a 40/60 chance of being either completely broken or completely worthless. I wouldn't expect Orks to be viable again until at least a new edition, and maybe not even then.

I agree with Sidstyler here. They are not going to fix this or that. They will make some new models and lower the points cost of regular troops so that we will buy more of them. Orks are an assault army in a shooting edition. They will likely be very hard to play like the nids are. I just wish that there was some kind of info at all because I want new models!

rothrich wrote:I agree with Sidstyler here. They are not going to fix this or that. They will make some new models and lower the points cost of regular troops so that we will buy more of them. Orks are an assault army in a shooting edition. They will likely be very hard to play like the nids are. I just wish that there was some kind of info at all because I want new models!

Forced to agree here. I find it funny you mentioned Nids because I was trying to figure out exactly what, if anything, was going to get cut from the Codex to pop back up in a dataslate. I'm wondering exactly how much of a success that model was with Tyranids to see if they reuse it for Orks.

Frankly, I'm not holding my breath for Orks. I play them, along with Sisters, Nids, SM and SW. The fact that SW are still the most exciting of those army options...

 Sidstyler wrote:
I highly doubt GW is going to actually fix any of the issues with the Ork codex...like adding more answers for MC's, more reliable anti-tank, etc. They have fixed almost literally none of the issues with every single other army that got a 6th edition update so far, even the "OP" ones like Tau and Eldar, which have mainly ridden to the top on the back of one or two broken units and/or a couple of new over-the-top gimmicks/special rules. If anything Orks are going to be mostly copy/paste, with a couple of unnecessary or unwarranted nerfs, a couple characters getting models or removed from the codex entirely (bye Wazdakka), and a couple of new kits which have a 40/60 chance of being either completely broken or completely worthless. I wouldn't expect Orks to be viable again until at least a new edition, and maybe not even then.

Tau got some of their issues fixed. They have several solutions for defending against super-fast assault units now. Fusion blasters became a lot more usable with their extra range. Broadsides and hammerheads now have different roles. Almost every unit which was terrible was made a bit better (even Vespids are somewhat usable now).

Astra Militarum got a few of their issues addressed. Tanks are better value, techpriests have some purpose, bullgryns allow more aggressive tactics, sniper rifles are actually worth taking, priests went from pointless to good, vendettas are no longer OP and vehicle upgrades are worth considering. Lots of stuff didn't get fixed, but some of it did.

I would be too pessimistic about orks. They are still nearly viable now. If we get lucky and a new unit manages to plug our major weaknesses and they don't nerf key elements, we should be OK for a while longer.

 Sidstyler wrote:
I highly doubt GW is going to actually fix any of the issues with the Ork codex...like adding more answers for MC's, more reliable anti-tank, etc. They have fixed almost literally none of the issues with every single other army that got a 6th edition update so far, even the "OP" ones like Tau and Eldar, which have mainly ridden to the top on the back of one or two broken units and/or a couple of new over-the-top gimmicks/special rules. If anything Orks are going to be mostly copy/paste, with a couple of unnecessary or unwarranted nerfs, a couple characters getting models or removed from the codex entirely (bye Wazdakka), and a couple of new kits which have a 40/60 chance of being either completely broken or completely worthless. I wouldn't expect Orks to be viable again until at least a new edition, and maybe not even then.

Orks are completely viable as they are, not the strongest book by any means but to say they arent viable or wont be for a long time is just silly. And if they do get a copy paste codex with an OP unit or two it could end up being a really strong codex. And like someone else said above, the new books have had more tweaks to their weaknesses than you are making out.

I don't normally put too much hope into new releases but i have a strong feeling that this book is going to be something different, definitely not time to start despairing just yet anyway.

 Clang wrote:
Just maybe an orky equivalent of a Dreadknight, i.e. a giant dredd piloted by an ork boss? I'm still not seeing an _organic_ MC for orks...

That would be nice, then I would have a real reason to have built this thing. Just wish it would get jump packs just like stormboyz! 12 +1d6 movement on a big monstrous creature would be nasty

 Brother SRM wrote:
Dreads are walkers. That's not changing. They look like walkers and share a name with other walkers, namely Dreadnoughts.

Warbosses as MCs doesn't work as a regular thing. Yeah, there's stories in the fluff about legendary Warbosses who are enormous, but they're rare. If there was a unit that was a "Megaboss" or something of the sort, which was an MC Warboss, that'd be neat. Standard Warbosses are fine as is though.

not sure why it wouldnt work with MC warbosses, makes fluff sense, sure its rarer to see a MC sized WB then a normal sized one, but it would be far more common to see MC warbosses then half the stuff we see feilded (plasma spam, chapter masters, relics, special chars, pre fall tech, the entire GK codex, and so on)

in terms of "rarity" there are likely billions or trillions of orks per space marine, millions - billions of warbosses to chaptermasters, millions or at least many hundreds of thousands of mega warbosses to guys like draigo, mephiston and so on.

I mean orks are supposed to be combat masters, they were the only thing to threaten the emperors life besides horus in the fluff, but rules wize they are a joke.


what with them being horrible in combat with horrible initiative, a meagre 3 wounds, poor choices for armour, poor choice for ++ saves, then Im not sure what codex you have, but my WB's stats are pretty crappy in comparison to other things of similar pts cost...

take for example, a 50 point preist with a force axe or maul will kill a warboss with every upgrade available almost every single time simply because he goes first, has a solution for AP, and has force. AT best the WB can elect not to use the PK, strike at the same time, and both might die.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frothmog wrote:

 Clang wrote:
Just maybe an orky equivalent of a Dreadknight, i.e. a giant dredd piloted by an ork boss? I'm still not seeing an _organic_ MC for orks...

That would be nice, then I would have a real reason to have built this thing. Just wish it would get jump packs just like stormboyz! 12 +1d6 movement on a big monstrous creature would be nasty

awesome model! heck even if dreads were av13 or had something to give then a shot in hell of getting across the table.

I

So a guy at my FLGS was packing up his Eldar after we had a close game against my Torks and was like, "So the main rumor for 40k is that Orks are next month, and that the Stompa is going to be like an IK." I was kinda shocked so I forgot to ask for his source. So I haven't been able to find anything that shows that either of them are remotely possible. I mean to pinpoint next month is pretty specific. Had anyone else found something that I haven't? What do you think too?

I would highly doubt that dreads are going to be any more usefull in the new codex as they are in the current codex... Dreads are just bad in any army that they are in, sm, ba, da, wolves, orks... In all honesty I really think that any ork player that wants a "competitve" army from the orks should look elsewhere. What I think we will get will be a really fun and crazy book that will be a whole bunch of fun to play and will either win epic style of lose epic style. Just like the orks should.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Commander_Farsight wrote:
So a guy at my FLGS was packing up his Eldar after we had a close game against my Torks and was like, "So the main rumor for 40k is that Orks are next month, and that the Stompa is going to be like an IK." I was kinda shocked so I forgot to ask for his source. So I haven't been able to find anything that shows that either of them are remotely possible. I mean to pinpoint next month is pretty specific. Had anyone else found something that I haven't? What do you think too?

Right now it seems to be a toss up between orks next month (more likely) and 7th edition next month (less likely). I have heard nothing about the stompa being like an imperial knight and it seems verry highly unlikely that it will be. I mean it is in the sense that they are both superheavy walkers but I would guess that the similarities will end there...

 Commander_Farsight wrote:
So a guy at my FLGS was packing up his Eldar after we had a close game against my Torks and was like, "So the main rumor for 40k is that Orks are next month, and that the Stompa is going to be like an IK." I was kinda shocked so I forgot to ask for his source. So I haven't been able to find anything that shows that either of them are remotely possible. I mean to pinpoint next month is pretty specific. Had anyone else found something that I haven't? What do you think too?

If by 'next month' he meant May, that seems unlikely, because we already know that most of May is going to be Wood Elves. June seems likely for orks, but far from certain.

The Stompa is already very like an Imperial Knight in that it is a super-heavy walker with fairly good anti-tank guns, an amazing close combat weapon and a few weak anti-infantry guns. There's no reason to expect it's rules to change or for them to even be included in the new codex.

 Perfect Organism wrote:

The Stompa is already very like an Imperial Knight in that it is a super-heavy walker with fairly good anti-tank guns, an amazing close combat weapon and a few weak anti-infantry guns. There's no reason to expect it's rules to change or for them to even be included in the new codex.

The only problem is the model is way too big.

 Deunstephe wrote:

 Perfect Organism wrote:

The Stompa is already very like an Imperial Knight in that it is a super-heavy walker with fairly good anti-tank guns, an amazing close combat weapon and a few weak anti-infantry guns. There's no reason to expect it's rules to change or for them to even be included in the new codex.

The only problem is the model is way too big.

I prefer to think of it as that every other superheavy is way too small

 Ascalam wrote:

 Deunstephe wrote:

 Perfect Organism wrote:

The Stompa is already very like an Imperial Knight in that it is a super-heavy walker with fairly good anti-tank guns, an amazing close combat weapon and a few weak anti-infantry guns. There's no reason to expect it's rules to change or for them to even be included in the new codex.

The only problem is the model is way too big.

I prefer to think of it as that every other superheavy is way too small

We have a winner!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/592379.page

well folks looks like we get 7th next month and not orks...

Looks like 7E will pave the way for Orks, however.

Not sure how I feel about that. The first couple of books in each new edition tend to be bland, underpowered and not really use the new rules well.

On the other hand, it seems that 7th edition may be a smaller change than previous new editions, so maybe that pattern won't hold up.

Hopefully 7th will be released alongside Orks. It would make sense, seeing as 7th has been said to be only a minor change. If Orks get their rules changed, it'll be good to have them updated in the rulebook and not have 4th ed. rules still there.

There's an intermediate sized Stompa coming. Along the same scale as the IK.

 Squidbot wrote:
There's an intermediate sized Stompa coming. Along the same scale as the IK.

Source?

Can't say, and you have no reason to trust me, I know

I'd think it more likely they just de-restrict the existing one,

it being plastic (rather than FW resin) after all

On one hand, orks skipping two full editions is something I won't forgive GW in a hurry. On the other hand, if we get the new dex, might as well be for the next edition. The only thing more insulting than skipping two editions would be to get a new dex, that instantly becomes obsolete when 7th changes something radical.