Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The problem with the gorkanauts weapons is the same problem almost all Ork weapons have..GW doesn't understand math.

Random shots = bad, low BS = bad.. Both = double bad. They need to base things off of average # of hits, not off whatever they're using. 3 hits per shot with a super expensive walker is a joke.

What exactly is this unit supposed to do? Carry a unit for no reason? and shoot with guns that aren't good? Its only AV13 too so that's not exactly the most durable..

1 rifleman dread gets more hit on average than this thing and it only has 4 shots!

Yeah, that has always been a problem for orks. They cost shooting models by the best random result and as if it were on a BS4 model. The only reason the dakkajet turned out so well was their obsession with tons of special rules at that time, in that case twin-linked and strafing run.

And waaagh! plane. I really hope that we get to keep that special rule, since otherwise that would be quite a big nerf to one of our somewhat decent units.

 Bonde wrote:
And waaagh! plane. I really hope that we get to keep that special rule, since otherwise that would be quite a big nerf to one of our somewhat decent units.

i honestly dont see that being kept. idk why, but i dont like its chances..

I don't mind the Gorkanaut being sub-effective and would have bought 2 straight away if it was 150 points.

I think orks should be easy to hurt (so I don't mind AV13), poor at shooting BUT they should be numerous. When the ork player sets up in front of you you should have the thought: "did I bring enough bullets!?"

I'm cool with giving first blood, and second, and third, I'm also happy with having Gorkanauts blowing up left and right, but for every unit that die I want to make sure there are still 5 or 6 moving closer.

At the moment though all my games are pretty much written off by turn3, as I don't have enough resources to throw at my opponent.

 Jidmah wrote:
Yeah, that has always been a problem for orks. They cost shooting models by the best random result and as if it were on a BS4 model.

Because they don't understand the game they're writing for. There really is no other explanation.

Where does it say how many points they are? I couldnt find anything on the OP... I probably just missed it..

It's in the German pics, with my translation below it:

- Gorkanaut 245 points, Morkanaut 230

Ironically, the worse one costs more. Also a typical sign of what H.B.M.C. just said

Greyhound wrote:
No we played 7th, but we probably get things wrong!
you are correct we did not use a crater, just removed the vehicle.

pinning is irrelevant, terminators, and boys are fearless

^ boyz locked in the walking wardrobe don't have fearless.

 loki old fart wrote:

Greyhound wrote:
No we played 7th, but we probably get things wrong!
you are correct we did not use a crater, just removed the vehicle.

pinning is irrelevant, terminators, and boys are fearless

^ boyz locked in the walking wardrobe don't have fearless.

true dat, but no one shoots the walking wardrobe.

Reidentski wrote:
Hi guys! I'm curious where anyone is getting the weapon stats or the vehicle stats for the Gork/morks. At the cost of sounding ignorant,is this just leaked info? Or I'd it from another book? If so, what book? I've play for years but never really kept up w/ the peripheral books (I.e. Where the stomps stats are etc). Any info would be fantastic! Thx in advance. Just started playing orks again after dropping them for the past couple years.

White dwarf no 18

Jeez, those points costs are seriously messed up.

I don't know if I'd pay 230 for a Morkanaught, but if I was, theres absolutely no way in hell the Gorkanaught is worth 245.

Greyhound wrote:

 loki old fart wrote:

Greyhound wrote:
No we played 7th, but we probably get things wrong!
you are correct we did not use a crater, just removed the vehicle.

pinning is irrelevant, terminators, and boys are fearless

^ boyz locked in the walking wardrobe don't have fearless.

true dat, but no one shoots the walking wardrobe.

You've just been discussing it exploding.

I didnt think itd be 230 points... jees. Just did a fully kitted out warboss without bike. Something like 128 points.. idk if the walker is worth 2 warbosses...

Most LoW choices are not worth their points Only two of the AM tanks, the ascended Ctan, and the Eldar Titan really break the game. In all cases it is due to large templates ignoring cover or D strength shooting attacks. The stomp gets a boot up into that category if you have a burns unit containing three meks and a off big mek in there. 5+ cover and recovering an average of 2 HP a turn makes it unkillable.

But, if knights are allowed, then LoW should be too. Knights have none of the rules that balance the super heavies.

I am looking forward to the morkanaut. Burnas inside to repair him, off, and in a dread mob containing the following:

2 kff big meks
2 units of 25 shoots boyz
2 deff dredd
1 morkanaut
12 kans
1mega dredd.

KFF walker heaven at 2000.

Dragonzord wrote:
I didnt think itd be 230 points... jees. Just did a fully kitted out warboss without bike. Something like 128 points.. idk if the walker is worth 2 warbosses...

Exactly. At first I was thrilled to see this new kit. Rules sounded promising enough, grot riggerz giving "It Will Not Die" was kind of cool.
Then, the KFF nerf came (6" for models, not units). Heavy blow. I've always played KFF Big Meks since 3rd edition Codex.
Finally, it was the point cost: 280 points for a KFF Morkanaut with lame blast weapon (not even melta or AP1!). Duh.
I guess you could have two heavy Battlewagons instead, with Deff Rolla for S10 hits, and front AV/14... Still much better choice in my opinion.

Last night, I was thinking about all this. The only way to play Orks on foot would be a change concerning Mob Rule, giving FNP 5+.
But then, what would Painboyz do? Re-roll FNP, or 4+? ... Doesn't seem likely. With all AM weapons ignoring saves, even bikers are less interesting to play.
I'm really hoping for a change and so far I'm still concerned about the effectiveness of Ork armies.

Also, let me call bs on Big Gun / Buggy combo kit. The reason is quite obvious, really. That would include:
- 3-4 different weapons for the Big Gun
- 3 different weapons for the buggy
- 3 grotz for handling the Big Gun + Mek/Runtherd
- 2 boyz for the buggy
... not to mention the buggy in two halves.

While the Deffstorm mega-shoota itself maybe less 'shooty' than an entire dakkajet (note: including Flyboss+ extra Supra-shoota for 130 pts total), I don't think it invalidates the entire Gorkanaught model since it also comes equipped with (2) TL Big Shootas, (2) Rokkit launchas, skorcha, and the Klaw of Gork. So the Gorkanaught at BS2 is throwing out 3D6, S6, AP4 shots; (6) TL, S5, AP5 shots; and (2) S8, AP3 shots (+/- skorcha) vs. the dakkajet's BS3 shooting at (9) S6, AP 4 shots.

Also, the dakkajet is rather fragile due it's has AV10, so I generally need to bring at least 2 dakkajets, which fully loaded runs 260 pts...and may not last 2 turns, and cannot claim objectives. The Gorkanaught costs 245 points, AV 13/13/12, plenty of 'shootiness', transports 6 models, can block LOS, has CC ability, and claim objectives. So, while the dakkajet jet is a great FA choice, it plays an entirely differently role in an army than the Gorkanaught.

In general, I tend to lean more towards the Morkanaught for my playing style, but I think either of these models, when taken as a whole, can play an important role.

Yeah, the model isn't a top shelf choice from a pure competitive sense, but so what? Are we really at that point? Granted, the price makes it a struggle given its competitiveness, but it is a must have for a true irk walker fan.

I'm really kind of hoping MekBoyz get the Techpriest Engineseer treatment. Outside the Force Org unit that can be taken in groups, instead of having to take some unrelated unit and turn them into Meks.

Hm... the only real advantage of the new walker is it's high HP, grot riggers, and the option to transport a squad of meks to repair it on the go.

You know what else does that? A battlewagon with grot riggers, space for a whole loota squad including repairing meks and some other armament strapped on.

I think a whole squad of lootas with a souped up battlewagon would clock in at slightly below 400 pts, offering higher mobility, more dakka (cannon, 4 bigh shootas and 12 lootas that can actually shoot from inside the vehicle) and with models most of us allready have.

True, but the morkanaut demands attention before it can hit the enemy line. In a dredd mob list it can be a very difficult to stop hard point that forces the opponent to respond to it. Only a close range melt shot will have a real chance of killing it outright. When it gets within charge range, it hits with 5 S10 attacks and will be able to tie up or grind most things to bits when supported by other walkers.

 Kosake wrote:
Hm... the only real advantage of the new walker is it's high HP, grot riggers, and the option to transport a squad of meks to repair it on the go.

You know what else does that? A battlewagon with grot riggers, space for a whole loota squad including repairing meks and some other armament strapped on.

I think a whole squad of lootas with a souped up battlewagon would clock in at slightly below 400 pts, offering higher mobility, more dakka (cannon, 4 bigh shootas and 12 lootas that can actually shoot from inside the vehicle) and with models most of us allready have.

You forgot being able to take a KFF and 4 weapons shooting S8 shots. It also has higher side and rear-armor than a battlewagon, as well having AP1 in combat. Mobility also comes at the price of snap-shoting all those lootaz, who can now be killed by templates without needing to crack the battlewagon. Also note that, on top of the weaker armor, the battlewagon has one less HP and +1 to damage tables, making it more likely to die to shooting in one turn than the walker. Even regular anti-tank has a chance to explode it, and in turn kill a bunch of lootaz.

Also, as mentioned before, Morkanauts are a heavy support choice for a footslogging army, battlewagons are not. There shouldn't ever be the issue of taking one or the other, you either pick battlewagons and have them define your army, or you take footsloggers and take some slower heavy support choice.

With lootas, the cannon and big shootas you have a fairly large range, so you give plenty of incentive for the enemy to do something about it allready. Also, should anything come into charge range, well, tank shock with deffrolla? D6 S10 attacks iirc?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Kosake wrote:
Hm... the only real advantage of the new walker is it's high HP, grot riggers, and the option to transport a squad of meks to repair it on the go.

You know what else does that? A battlewagon with grot riggers, space for a whole loota squad including repairing meks and some other armament strapped on.

I think a whole squad of lootas with a souped up battlewagon would clock in at slightly below 400 pts, offering higher mobility, more dakka (cannon, 4 bigh shootas and 12 lootas that can actually shoot from inside the vehicle) and with models most of us allready have.

You forgot being able to take a KFF and 4 weapons shooting S8 shots. It also has higher side and rear-armor than a battlewagon, as well having AP1 in combat. Mobility also comes at the price of snap-shoting all those lootaz, who can now be killed by templates without needing to crack the battlewagon. Also note that, on top of the weaker armor, the battlewagon has one less HP and +1 to damage tables, making it more likely to die to shooting in one turn than the walker. Even regular anti-tank has a chance to explode it, and in turn kill a bunch of lootaz.

Also, as mentioned before, Morkanauts are a heavy support choice for a footslogging army, battlewagons are not. There shouldn't ever be the issue of taking one or the other, you either pick battlewagons and have them define your army, or you take footsloggers and take some slower heavy support choice.

I can see the merit for footsloggers, good argument. But then again, why not just drive slower, keeping your armor to the front?

I generally do that with my wagons. The templates hitting guys inside isn't too big a deal though, since that means most of the time, whoever vented the template is within charge range of other boyz or will be shot to bits (torrent weapons still need to be within charge range).

I like the model and can see it being fun, which really is the point. An incredibly durable CC machine that demands attention. Lets the rest of the army move in without taking as much fire.

 PhillyT wrote:
I generally do that with my wagons. The templates hitting guys inside isn't too big a deal though, since that means most of the time, whoever vented the template is within charge range of other boyz or will be shot to bits (torrent weapons still need to be within charge range).

I like the model and can see it being fun, which really is the point. An incredibly durable CC machine that demands attention. Lets the rest of the army move in without taking as much fire.

Try charging the hell turkey.

 Kosake wrote:
I can see the merit for footsloggers, good argument. But then again, why not just drive slower, keeping your armor to the front?

Well, battlewagons rarely get to use their awesome front armor, due to the shape of the model, and if they do, it can still be punched through by armourbane, lances or S10. Battlewagons offer speed first, and protection second, but you actually pay points for that speed. If you don't need it, you might as well not spend points on it. It might become a viable strategy if battlewagons see a serious drop in price, but right now, you're spending 110+ points on something you didn't need in the first place. An additional warboss, more lootaz or boyz might do more for your army than a battlewagon moving at combat speed.

A lot of battlewagons become wrecks when driving towards the enemy at full speed, there is no reason to expect them to do better when going a third of that distance every turn.

Greyhound wrote:

 loki old fart wrote:

Greyhound wrote:
No we played 7th, but we probably get things wrong!
you are correct we did not use a crater, just removed the vehicle.

pinning is irrelevant, terminators, and boys are fearless

^ boyz locked in the walking wardrobe don't have fearless.

true dat, but no one shoots the walking wardrobe.

I could drop a suicide Metla Crisis suit down to take it out which costs 58 points.

58 points to take out a 230 point model and remove a 5++ save bubble from your other units. Pretty easy pickings for a big reward, just needs a space to drop. So you'll be bunched around it to stop that and (if the save is on a model by model basis, rather than unit) instead makes you more susceptible to blasts.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Kosake wrote:
I can see the merit for footsloggers, good argument. But then again, why not just drive slower, keeping your armor to the front?

Well, battlewagons rarely get to use their awesome front armor, due to the shape of the model, and if they do, it can still be punched through by armourbane, lances or S10. Battlewagons offer speed first, and protection second, but you actually pay points for that speed. If you don't need it, you might as well not spend points on it. It might become a viable strategy if battlewagons see a serious drop in price, but right now, you're spending 110+ points on something you didn't need in the first place. An additional warboss, more lootaz or boyz might do more for your army than a battlewagon moving at combat speed.

A lot of battlewagons become wrecks when driving towards the enemy at full speed, there is no reason to expect them to do better when going a third of that distance every turn.

Couldn't agree more and it really does depend on the list you play---fast vehicles to deliver troops vs. Slow and steady. Plus, I hate when the Battlewagon gets wrecked/exploded and I lose half of my troops...granted the vehicle damage chart is a little better in 7th...and while the same thing could happen to the a G/M-naught, the tactics are different, and you're only loosing about 6 burnaboyz/Mek boyz.

I was thinking about the firepower per points of the Gorkanaut in comparison to the Landraider Crusader (since it serves a similar purpose) and the Battlewagon full of shoota boyz (current rendition) so I did some mathhammering

Gorkanaut
Deffstorm : 10.5 shots (3,5 hits) [str6]
2 TL Big Shootas: 6 Shots ( 3.3(3) hits) [str5]
2 Rokkits : 2 rokkits (0.666..7 hits) [str8]
7.5 hits total
245

Landraider Crusader
Huricane Bolter : 6-12 shots (5.333 - 10.666 Hits) [str 4]
TL Multimelta : 1 shot [str 8 ap 1]
6.333-11.666 hits total
260

Battlewagon
4 Big Shootas : 12 shots (4 hits) [str 5]
+ open topped : 39 Shootas (13 hits) [str4]
17 hits total
265 points (245 without the Big Shootas)

(woulnd comparisons are against T4 targets, which imo is the target these units (t3-t4 infantry) are supposed to be aiming for)
so the Gorkanaut has a comparable Dakka to the crusader landraider, doing more hits at long range, and less at rapid fire range. But the Gorkanaut weapons are higher strength so even at rapidfire range, the gorkanaut still almost equal production of woulnds on average (0.47 woulnds in favor of the Crusader)

Compared to a ShootaWagon the Gorkanaut firepower is lessened, since a Shoota wagon, even without the big shootas, produces more woulnds then the Gorkanaut (0.8 more on average. The advantage of the Shootawagon goes up when Big Shootas are added (2.14 more woulnds on average)

But again the Gorkanaut weapons have higher str, so his weapons gives him more flexibility

So overall the Gorkanaut is quite comparable to his counterparts in firepower, even outshining them in some aspects

 Jidmah wrote:
Well, battlewagons rarely get to use their awesome front armor, due to the shape of the model

I don't know if this is the English term, but "refused flank" is easy to get when you play a line of 3 battlewagons (45° angle in front).
Then again, it doesn't really help against some specialist weapons or Vendettas for example.
I really hope their AV will be equal to LR (14/13/10) or that the unit will see a drop in points (90=>70points?).

Come on GW, bring the codex already!!!