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office_waaagh wrote:So lucky stixx gives +1 WS to the unit, not just the model carrying it? Same as WAAAGH! banner?

Yup, its essentially a waaagh banner with extra benefits

deffrekka wrote:Whats the description on the lukky stixx? Trying to decide how im going to model it

Its a good one:

Makari was an exceptionally lucky grot who survived to the ripe old age of nine before finally meeting his end under the posterior of his hulking master. The plucky grot served as self-appointed banner-waver to the mighty Ghazghkull Thraka himself, surviving countless battles in ever more improbable ways. Ghazghkull saw Makari as something of a mascot. Thus, when the grot’s remains were peeled off his boss’ rear end, Makari’s wavin’ stikk was reclaimed, hosed down, and went into service as an impressive bosspole. Good fortune still surrounds Da Lucky Stikk, though the backlash when things go wrong can be surprisingly bru

 Multimoog wrote:

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

DaKrumpa wrote:

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 Mumblez wrote:
Pre-ordered my warboss edition!

And so the cycle continues....

I pre-ordered mine as well, I don't mind the investment considering the last codex was from fourth, this might have to do till 10th Edition .

The problem is that your paying 3x as much money as the codex, for a supplement that shouldn't exist,art that already exists, and 6 metal objectives. And sense people actually buy this, it makes GW think its ok to do. So they release more.
Also I may be wrong but im pretty sure that the last limited edition codex was only 100 dollars.

And if GW produces more - because people like them - that means people have to buy them...? If you don't want one it doesn't affect you in any way.

If people didnt buy these outrageously expensive "deals" then GW would have to drop the price, making me (and others) actually get one.

I remember reading that in the purging of kallidus book :p need to luck up ghazghkulls waaagh! Banner then

 Zog Off wrote:
This may be more tactics than rumours, but there are lots of ideas being hypothesized about in here, so what about this?

Use the special FOC to take 3 Painboy HQ's and 3 30-strong units of Ork Boyz for Troops.

Place 1 Painboy in each unit of Ork Boyz. You would then have 90 Ork Boyz with FNP.

An old unit of 30 shoota boyz was 180 points, a new mob with a painboy added in is 260 points.

On a relative cost basis, the new unit is no more survivable than the old unit, except the old unit has ~45% more offensive power on a relative basis and doesn't eat up a HQ slot.

Also, don't forget that if you use a morkanaut to provide KKF coverage, not only are you spending an enormous amount of points (and real $$), an explodes result will do terrible terrible things to all the boyz in the vicinity (the morkanaut is most likely to go down to an explodes result, rather than being wrecked).

 insaniak wrote:

 ravenousork25 wrote:
So did I read / hear this right ghaz has no 'regular' invulnerable save?

He didn't previously, either, so that's not really surprising.

Yes he did, he had a Cybork Body 5++ invulnerable save. In fact, he still has Cybork Body, which has been nerfed to a 6+ Feel No Pain save.

 easysauce wrote:


actually, first of all, 2d6 is a 7" average roll, it is awesome, the average roll of ONE dice is NOT 6" its 3.5"...

its not 1" more, its literally twice the average roll...so if you keep missing that basic principle of math it shows your lack of understanding of basic math, let alone lack understanding tactics of how to use this bonus to your advantage...

where as before we ALWAYS lost a guy on a 1, now we can pick and choose when to take the risk, we still only lose a guy on a 1, and get a save...

before, those rokkit boys got 12" +d6, and died on a one... with NO waaagh bonus.. and no charging after running,

now they move 12" +up to 2d6 run IF we want to risk losing guys on 1's, AND we get to run AND charge AND get to reroll a charge dice... that is a BUFF no matter how you cut it...

now you move 12" + d6 +2d6 to charge WITH a reroll on charge, before it was 12+d6+2d6 and die on ones.. so again, 100% buff, no negatives AT ALL...

sorry but you are wrong.
first of all, you could use the extra d6 EACH turn, EVERY-TIME you moved! now, you dont do that because the risk is to high. so in almost every game the new stormboyz will be slower
secondly, the "could not charge" thingy was due to the rulechange of "fleet" in the 7th edition. before that you could charge in after running (by the way, this applies to all ork units) so if you compare them right, it would be (on the charging turn)

old: 12+d6+d6+2d6 (1 ork dies if a one is relloed)
new:12+2d6+2d6 (1/6 of the unit will die)

now tell me... how's that not a nerf?

Cant you choose to just roll one d6 for running to avoid the dangerous terrain or do you HAVE to use the 2D6 each time you run?

 deffrekka wrote:
Cant you choose to just roll one d6 for running to avoid the dangerous terrain or do you HAVE to use the 2D6 each time you run?

"can choose to use them to Run 2D6" in the Shooting phase instead of the normal D6" " is the terminology use so either:

Can choose to run, in which case its 2d6.

Or can choose to run either 1 D6 or 2D6

I believe its meant to be the latter.

 Melcavuk wrote:

Makari was an exceptionally lucky grot who survived to the ripe old age of nine before finally meeting his end under the posterior of his hulking master. The plucky grot served as self-appointed banner-waver to the mighty Ghazghkull Thraka himself, surviving countless battles in ever more improbable ways. Ghazghkull saw Makari as something of a mascot. Thus, when the grot’s remains were peeled off his boss’ rear end, Makari’s wavin’ stikk was reclaimed, hosed down, and went into service as an impressive bosspole. Good fortune still surrounds Da Lucky Stikk, though the backlash when things go wrong can be surprisingly bru

The shout-out to the 2nd ed Makari (and his 2+ unmodifiable, non-negatable save) is fantastic and makes me happy. I still have that model somewhere, maybe I can find it and re-purpose his banner pole...

 Melcavuk wrote:
Waaagh Banner is 20, Lukky Stixx is 25 and gives you the choice of rerolling failed hits, wounds or armour saves (but you die instantly if 3 of the rerolls also fail in a turn).

It essentially combined the use of an attack squig and a waaagh banner, but isnt one reroll a turn, aslong as you keep check of how many you've failed you're not gonna kill yourself.

Also Waaagh Banner+Attack squig = 35 Points
Lukky Stixx = 25 points

Leave it to GW to nerf the banner (cost increase) and then make a new item that does the same thing, but better, for 5 more points, while also being better than a combination of the old gear that has been changed (nerfed).

I agree with you mel, i think there's a choice. A max of 36" charge to a 30" charge for stormboys not using the extra d6 isn't really a big difference as that Minimum 15" to maximum 30" is a large threat range

 Melcavuk wrote:

 deffrekka wrote:
Cant you choose to just roll one d6 for running to avoid the dangerous terrain or do you HAVE to use the 2D6 each time you run?

"can choose to use them to Run 2D6" in the Shooting phase instead of the normal D6" " is the terminology use so either:

Can choose to run, in which case its 2d6.

Or can choose to run either 1 D6 or 2D6

I believe its meant to be the latter.

hmm thats a relief... been able to choose is a good thing... and good things are rare these days

With all those info about the Codex now, does anyone see a clever use of the 'Orkanaut as transport?

 nflagey wrote:
With all those info about the Codex now, does anyone see a clever use of the 'Orkanaut as transport?

3 Burna Boys w/3 Little Meks - meks keep the naut alive by repairing it every turn, while burnas provide 3 flamer templates when it opens. The meks also still have kustom mega blastas - none of those need to assault to be useful and it's a really good amount of damage in a very sturdy vehicle. So, move 6" in a naut, disembark, move 6" with the passengers, flame/KMB, and also use all the guns on the naut. Or, smash through a few units in CC with the naut (while meks repair), then disembark to roast backfield units.

 Toburk wrote:

 Zog Off wrote:
This may be more tactics than rumours, but there are lots of ideas being hypothesized about in here, so what about this?

Use the special FOC to take 3 Painboy HQ's and 3 30-strong units of Ork Boyz for Troops.

Place 1 Painboy in each unit of Ork Boyz. You would then have 90 Ork Boyz with FNP.

An old unit of 30 shoota boyz was 180 points, a new mob with a painboy added in is 260 points.

On a relative cost basis, the new unit is no more survivable than the old unit, except the old unit has ~45% more offensive power on a relative basis and doesn't eat up a HQ slot.

Also, don't forget that if you use a morkanaut to provide KKF coverage, not only are you spending an enormous amount of points (and real $$), an explodes result will do terrible terrible things to all the boyz in the vicinity (the morkanaut is most likely to go down to an explodes result, rather than being wrecked).

I don't understand how a unit of Shoota Boyz in the old edition has more offensive power than a unit of Shoota Boyz in the new edition. Did their stats change or something?

And, in the old edition, I would be using two HQ slots for Big Meks with KFF's. Now I'm using the HQ slots for Pain Boys and getting my KFF's elsewhere. I don't really see that as eating up a slot. I see it more as freeing up a slot and putting something else cool in its place.

Also, would the threat of a Morkanaut exploding be any worse than the threat of Dreads/Killa Kanz exploding in a walker wall from the old edition?

Honest questions. Not trying to argue. Just trying to brainstorm. I'll be glad when the new codex is officially out so we can get a tactica thread going.

I think he means effectiveness per point. Cost went up with no appreciable difference in output.

KFFs can only be on Big Meks and Morkanauts. So you're either still using an HQ slot for it, or using a HS slot (which is sadly just as crowded as HQ).

As to exploding, the *Naut is on a much bigger base than the Dredd or Kanz, so more radius of explosion essentially.

 Zog Off wrote:

I don't understand how a unit of Shoota Boyz in the old edition has more offensive power than a unit of Shoota Boyz in the new edition. Did their stats change or something?.

their price went up.

new dex: 90 shootaz, 180 shots, 630points
old dex: 105 shootaz, 210 shots, 630 points

ergo => old shootaz have more offensive power

EDIT:
and you could fracture in the nerf to the KFF wich makes em more fragile

 Mumblez wrote:

 Bangbangboom wrote:
Cheers, guess I had better go buy the mag then.

This week's WDW was actually alright, there's a bit of lore in there and an actual battle report too! But yeah, the rules for the looted wagon alone make it worth it if you're an ork player.

Or if you don't want to give GW your money (which I can totally understand) just look below.

Been back several pages & couldn't see it, but did anyone else notice that the Unit Composition says "1 Gorkanaut"?

Just another example of the fine quality of GW productions. Your 1 Gorkanaut will cost you a mere 37 points with a str 8 Killkannon. Err....I mean your 37 point looted wagon with a Str 7 killkannon, oopsie doopsie.

$50 please for this epic codex

Ulcis wrote:

 Mumblez wrote:

 Bangbangboom wrote:
Cheers, guess I had better go buy the mag then.

This week's WDW was actually alright, there's a bit of lore in there and an actual battle report too! But yeah, the rules for the looted wagon alone make it worth it if you're an ork player.

Or if you don't want to give GW your money (which I can totally understand) just look below.

Been back several pages & couldn't see it, but did anyone else notice that the Unit Composition says "1 Gorkanaut"?

nobody had picked up on that yet, no

In other words, adding a painboy to your army's boyz does nothing to actually make them more durable, due to how high the substitution cost is. In fact, it actually weakens them, as the painboy himself is of relatively little offensive value, compared to say a KFF Big Mek who could take a power klaw and function as a nob for all intents and purposes, or just more boyz.

This also assumes the painboys are the last to die, which is a terrible assumption, as they are most likely to be the first to die.


When dealing with GW products, never assume that any thought or statistical analysis went into creating the rules in an attempt to create "balance", or that point costs are actually based on relative power level.

For example, as shown previously in this thread, the new mob rule is actually WORSE for small units now. A unit of 1-7 models including a character with a bosspole is 11.8% more likely to run than the same unit in the 4th Ed codex. GW presumably created the new mob rule to help smaller elite ork units with their morale, but actually ended up nerfing them.

 streamdragon wrote:

Again, anything that forces a LD check besides casualties is an issue for Orks now. And it's not BEING pinned (or failing the LD) check that is at issue. It's the potentially 2d6 S4 auto-hits we can take from it.

Broodlords have just become high on the Ork hit list. Take a pinning check at -2 LD!

its a buff:
in the sense that units of 12 or less orks now have to make a (usually rerollable, is a 1+ in combat) 2+ to pass any failed ld tests, can now go to ground, and worst case is take D6 hits (not 2d6), half of which wound, where as before they were vunderable. for smaller ork units, its a buff.

its a nerf:
in that IF you roll double 1's, you might run away from shooting, or be pinned, if you are at 12+ models, going from 0% chance, to the smallest chance ever, is technically a nerf, but coupled with the above buff to MSU's, its a net gain over all.

not to mentionthe large pts reduction in bikers and stormboyz, as well as bestter wagh, and ere we go rules, as well as those better rules now applying to bikers+ storm boyz, is awesome, just freaking awesome.






mel, anything that talks about this in the codex?
One thing I think we need to look at, is if ghazzys waaagh is able to be done every turn with the new formation...

having a 2++ on him in that might explain why hes LOW?

As far as I know you can't take Ghaz with the ork warband because that formation can't include a LoW. I'm not sure, but I believe it was stated 20 pages ago... I do hope it's wrong - Ghaz with a permanent 2++ would actually make sense as a LoW!

RedNoak wrote:

 easysauce wrote:


actually, first of all, 2d6 is a 7" average roll, it is awesome, the average roll of ONE dice is NOT 6" its 3.5"...

its not 1" more, its literally twice the average roll...so if you keep missing that basic principle of math it shows your lack of understanding of basic math, let alone lack understanding tactics of how to use this bonus to your advantage...

where as before we ALWAYS lost a guy on a 1, now we can pick and choose when to take the risk, we still only lose a guy on a 1, and get a save...

before, those rokkit boys got 12" +d6, and died on a one... with NO waaagh bonus.. and no charging after running,

now they move 12" +up to 2d6 run IF we want to risk losing guys on 1's, AND we get to run AND charge AND get to reroll a charge dice... that is a BUFF no matter how you cut it...

now you move 12" + d6 +2d6 to charge WITH a reroll on charge, before it was 12+d6+2d6 and die on ones.. so again, 100% buff, no negatives AT ALL...

sorry but you are wrong.
first of all, you could use the extra d6 EACH turn, EVERY-TIME you moved! now, you dont do that because the risk is to high. so in almost every game the new stormboyz will be slower
secondly, the "could not charge" thingy was due to the rulechange of "fleet" in the 7th edition. before that you could charge in after running (by the way, this applies to all ork units) so if you compare them right, it would be (on the charging turn)

old: 12+d6+d6+2d6 (1 ork dies if a one is relloed)
new:12+2d6+2d6 (1/6 of the unit will die)

now tell me... how's that not a nerf?

because you have the rules wrong?

you only got the extra d6 when using the jump pack... and you could not run and charge before, so you have an extra d6 in your math that should not be there.

you can only use the jump pack ONCE as per turn BRB rules, and only when use it do you get the extra D6, its not added to every single charge/move automatically...

you dont/didnt get to add d6 to move AND + d6 charge distance the same turn...

it went from 12" + d6 special move, + 2d6 charge, roll a 1 lose a guy

to 12 +d6run, +2d6 charge, with a re roll due to improved er we go, no chance to lose anyone since im not using the special rule.

with the OPTION of risking a dangerous test to get d6 more inches in a run move then before.

thats a buff.

 easysauce wrote:

its a buff:
in the sense that units of 12 or less orks now have to make a (usually rerollable, is a 1+ in combat) 2+ to pass any failed ld tests, can now go to ground, and worst case is take D6 hits (not 2d6), half of which wound, where as before they were vunderable. for smaller ork units, its a buff.

its a nerf:
in that IF you roll double 1's, you might run away from shooting, or be pinned, if you are at 12+ models, going from 0% chance, to the smallest chance ever, is technically a nerf, but coupled with the above buff to MSU's, its a net gain over all.

not to mentionthe large pts reduction in bikers and stormboyz, as well as bestter wagh, and ere we go rules, as well as those better rules now applying to bikers+ storm boyz, is awesome, just freaking awesome.

mel, anything that talks about this in the codex?
One thing I think we need to look at, is if ghazzys waaagh is able to be done every turn with the new formation...

having a 2++ on him in that might explain why hes LOW?

Please understand the rules.

Mob Chart wrote:
Mob rule is replaced by the D6 roll on Mob Chart
D6 Result
1 If the unit is locked in combat, it passes the Morale check or Pinning test. If the unit is not locked in combat, it fails.
2-3 If the unit includes one or more Ork characters (including Independent Characters), it suffers D6 Strength 4 AP- hits, and is then treated as if it had passed the Morale check or Pinning test.
4-6 If the unit has 10 or more models, it suffers D6 Strength 4 AP- hits, and is then treated as if it had passed the Morale check or Pinning test. The hits are Randomly Allocated. If the unit has fewer than 10 models, it fails the Morale check or Pinning test.

Boss Pole gives Reroll on the mob chart.

If you have less than ten models, you fail on the mob rule chart if you roll higher than a 3. Only the 1-3 options allow you to pass a failed leadership test, and there are conditions to that. You have to be locked in combat for 1 to be successful, and you have to have a character for 2-3 to be successful. If you have a unit of less than ten models that is not locked in combat with no characters, that unit cannot pass a failed leadership test on the mob chart.

It's a net nerf compared to old mob rule for units over ten units and units under ten units. It's a net nerf to mob rule, in other words.

 Toburk wrote:
In other words, adding a painboy to your army's boyz does nothing to actually make them more durable, due to how high the substitution cost is. In fact, it actually weakens them, as the painboy himself is of relatively little offensive value, compared to say a KFF Big Mek who could take a power klaw and function as a nob for all intents and purposes, or just more boyz.

This also assumes the painboys are the last to die, which is a terrible assumption, as they are most likely to be the first to die.


When dealing with GW products, never assume that any thought or statistical analysis went into creating the rules in an attempt to create "balance", or that point costs are actually based on relative power level.

For example, as shown previously in this thread, the new mob rule is actually WORSE for small units now. A unit of 1-7 models including a character with a bosspole is 11.8% more likely to run than the same unit in the 4th Ed codex. GW presumably created the new mob rule to help smaller elite ork units with their morale, but actually ended up nerfing them.

"they are most likely to be the first to die." - what bunk is this? They gain the benefit of their own FNP as well as being able to LoS on a 2+ for being IC HQs. Your weird math doesn't check out.

have - have you ever been truly happy, as a person?

With the level of sadness and depression on this thread, I am willing to do my part.

If those of you who are struggling with the changes need help, and can see through your tear soaked eyes, I am sure I can buy some of your horrible ork models to ease your burden.

Or you can settle down and dig into the cool things.

1. Increased charge range
2. Greatly decreased point costs on many formerly over costed units (buggies/bikes/kill cannons)
3. Versatile painboyz (old ones were nice too, but now they are more flexible)
4. Actual psyker for actual psykering

I miss the following though:

1. Cybork being worth using
2. Filling troop slots with deff dreads and nobs
3. My grammie. RIP GRAMMIE!

Sorry if this was posted already, the thread is growing fast and I didn't see it in the summary.

Somebody linked this MAN on warseer (see attachement)

Is there still a way to make Warbikers a troop choice? Like give a warbike to a warboss makes Warbikers troops, similar to space marine captains?

Ghaz cannot benefit from the Waagh every turn ability of the formation sadly. The formation says that if the formations warboss is the Warlord then they can use their Waaagh ability every turn.

Ghaz's ability says that if he is the Warlord he gets a 2+ invul (aswell as making boys fearless in a bubble and the usual stuff).

Since Ghaz cant be in the formation, and you cant have 2 warlord the two ability never coincide.