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Currently i'm in a local GW campaign (1200 points and must have a psyker), and so far i've gone 5-0 atm, nothing has come close yet. I've taken down Tau twice, Ultramarines, Blood Angels and Dark Angels, and i'm finding it hard to see why any of these games haven't been close (4 out of 5 games were a whitewash), how can I make this list stronger?

Basically my tactics are to leave the inquisitor with the acolyte henchmen squad in a ruin far back as possible, using the henchmen as extra wounds while using the conversion beamer to great effect picking stuff off, Coteaz goes with the other henchmen squad, generally sitting behind the cover of the Imperial Knight who just wanders right on through. Vindicare is infiltrated into cover to pick off any invun saves or any vehicles that could be a threat. The dread also sits on the ruins with the inquisitor squad, having high ground and a huge LOS, while keeping a 4+ cover save. Storm Raven just also comes on and does it's thing, generally there to take down any flyers that I may face.

Inquisition detachment
Inquisitor (plasma pistol, 3 x servo skulls, conversion beamer, power armour) 97

HQ
Coteaz 100

Elites
Vindicare assassin (145)

Troops
Henchmen (1 x acolyte W/ Carpiece armour and hot shot lasgun, 4 x acolytes with boltguns) 33
Henchmen (Jokero, MM servitor x 3) 65

Fast Attack
Storm Raven (psybolt, hurricane bolters, TL AC, TL MM) 255

Heavy support
Psyrifle Dread 135

Imperial Knights detachment
Knight Errant 370

With a flyer and an Imperial Knight in 1200 points, then it would be incredibly hard to best without taking something specific against it.

what is your second troop choice?

There's really not too much people can do about an Imperial Knight and a Storm Raven in such low points... Thats like Orks using two flyers and a Stompa in 1200, except better....

 randomtoaster wrote:
Currently i'm in a local GW campaign (1200 points and must have a psyker), and so far i've gone 5-0 atm, nothing has come close yet. I've taken down Tau twice, Ultramarines, Blood Angels and Dark Angels, and i'm finding it hard to see why any of these games haven't been close (4 out of 5 games were a whitewash), how can I make this list stronger?

I honestly can't tell if you are trolling or not. You have a Storm Raven which is akin to a flying Land Raider and an Imperial Knight at 1200 pts on top of Coteaz and a Psyfle Dread......... Hopefully you've been playing there for awhile with your group and you are a decent enough fellow.

Have you taken on horde armies? I would imagine that you can get quite a few models in there at 1200 points, and if they kill your scoring units, I think it is up in the air whether you can wipe their scoring units off objectives.

Of course, the list is very good and would stand a very good chance against most horde armies regardless, just trying to toss a few things out there to mull over.

Feasible wrote:There's really not too much people can do about an Imperial Knight and a Storm Raven in such low points...

They don't have to.

This list brings two microscopic scoring units, which will be pretty easy to take down. Once you've done that, then you've only got to bother with the knight, which isn't outside of the range of the amount of armor you might see at this points level. If you can't take down a single knight at 1,250 points, you didn't bring nearly enough anti-tank. Without an ability to score, that's going to seriously hurt your opponent unless he can table you, which he won't (doesn't have nearly enough firepower for that).

Better yet, this army would be super easy to draw-to-win against. Those tiny scoring units are going to be easy to get first blood against, and coteaz isn't the most survivable model ever to touch a tabletop. It shouldn't be that difficult to force it into "first blood: the game" mode, something which this list is particularly weak against.

A greentide can hold this pretty much of charging a 30boyz unit on the knight holding it up and using a PK nob to sacrfice... OR a battlewagon rush to just deffrollah the knight to death. on 1200 i can fit in 4 battlewagons and i played DA. Lootas glanced 2 times followed by d6 str 10 hits on it As the knights doesnt get any saves from said tank shocking it's bye bye to it

Fast armies is your real treath here tough. and with little to nothing that's scoring any army can shoot them off and win by holding objectives.

phatonic wrote:Lootas glanced 2 times followed by d6 str 10 hits on it As the knights doesnt get any saves from said tank shocking it's bye bye to it

Plus, let's just let that image sink in for a moment.

...

The idea of a battlewaggon literally riding down a knight titan with nothing but speed, shouts of waaaugh, and a giant spikey steam roller. It's like drinking a warm cup of tea on a cold winter day.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ailaros wrote:

phatonic wrote:Lootas glanced 2 times followed by d6 str 10 hits on it As the knights doesnt get any saves from said tank shocking it's bye bye to it

Plus, let's just let that image sink in for a moment.

...

The idea of a battlewaggon literally riding down a knight titan with nothing but speed, shouts of waaaugh, and a giant spikey steam roller. It's like drinking a warm cup of tea on a cold winter day.

Why yes indeed my good sire, it was certainly a nice day to Waagh indeed.

Have you played this list against Necrons? Does anyone play Necrons in your group? Necrons are pretty good at low point level as they have several super efficient units.

Hey guys I have this list that completely breaks 40K and beats everybody so bad that they never want to play me again but I want to know how I can make the list even worse?

Gimme a break.

 randomtoaster wrote:
Currently i'm in a local GW campaign (1200 points and must have a psyker), and so far i've gone 5-0 atm, nothing has come close yet. I've taken down Tau twice, Ultramarines, Blood Angels and Dark Angels, and i'm finding it hard to see why any of these games haven't been close (4 out of 5 games were a whitewash), how can I make this list stronger?

Basically my tactics are to leave the inquisitor with the acolyte henchmen squad in a ruin far back as possible, using the henchmen as extra wounds while using the conversion beamer to great effect picking stuff off, Coteaz goes with the other henchmen squad, generally sitting behind the cover of the Imperial Knight who just wanders right on through. Vindicare is infiltrated into cover to pick off any invun saves or any vehicles that could be a threat. The dread also sits on the ruins with the inquisitor squad, having high ground and a huge LOS, while keeping a 4+ cover save. Storm Raven just also comes on and does it's thing, generally there to take down any flyers that I may face.

Inquisition detachment
Inquisitor (plasma pistol, 3 x servo skulls, conversion beamer, power armour) 97

HQ
Coteaz 100

Elites
Vindicare assassin (145)

Troops
Henchmen (1 x acolyte W/ Carpiece armour and hot shot lasgun, 4 x acolytes with boltguns) 33
Henchmen (Jokero, MM servitor x 3) 65

Fast Attack
Storm Raven (psybolt, hurricane bolters, TL AC, TL MM) 255

Heavy support
Psyrifle Dread 135

Imperial Knights detachment
Knight Errant 370

You're local meta has poor target priority and isn't reserving enough scoring units.

Coteaz, the Inquisitor, and the 2 henchmen squad have 14 wounds at T3. Focus dakka on them it's a prime opportunity to gain first blood, warlord, and kill your only 2 scoring units.

Next in target priority should be the Vidicare with it's 2 wounds at T4

After that it's a knight, a flyer, and a single AV12 dread. A lot of lists should be able to alpha strike the 16 wounds in 1 or 2 turns leaving nothing but the vehicles to deal with.

If you can get 1st blood & warlord against the list and kill the troops it will often be just a matter of not getting tabled. Most games are objective based. Reserve some troops because they can't be shot in reserves and it just become a matter of how well you deal with the knight.

It's so easy! All you need to do is shoot everything else and then turn 3 you can easily kill the giant behemoth rampaging through your lines. Great advice.

Drop vindi, add more scoring.

Crusaders for invuln saves. 5 point bolter bodies are very spammable.

Unless I am mistaken, 2 Salamanders drop pod would fry the scoring units first turn.

MC melta bombs would help, as would Vulkan.

I think it would not even need to be tailored, the standart melta flaming green angry marines in drop pods would be enough. Am I missing something ?

A drop pod list would have a field day against you, it wouldn't be that hard to drop outside of the 12" Coteaz bubble and kill pretty much everything else in one go, including the Knight if they can get a melta squad each side of it.
I imagine you'd also have problems against necrons or eldar, you'd have to hide or reserve your scoring units or they'd be gone before you could blink, leaving them just needing to grab an objective late game to win.

 herpguy wrote:
It's so easy! All you need to do is shoot everything else and then turn 3 you can easily kill the giant behemoth rampaging through your lines. Great advice.

The trick here is not to deploy in 'lines', but to have lots of fast units which can pick their targets and avoid threats. I think that the ideal counter to this list is probably Dark Eldar, but I can see White Scars, speedy Eldar and a non-riptide Farsight Enclaves army giving it some trouble too.

EDIT: is there anything to stop you declaring the knight to be your primary detachment, making it scoring and having it be your warlord?

edit 2: yes, there is. You need three knights to form a primary detachment.

I don't understand how you beat Tau with this list. With the amount of cover-denying stuff they can bring, the Vindicare, Inquisitors, and Henchmen are incredibly easy kills. In a KP game, that's 5 kp, in an objective game, that's all your scoring units. The Inquisitors + Henchmen would be gone the first turn. Either way, it's almost assured to give up the StW point, probably First Blood, too. If I remember correctly, Knights don't even score except as part of a primary detachment.

Think DE can ruin youre day...

 grrrfranky wrote:
A drop pod list would have a field day against you, it wouldn't be that hard to drop outside of the 12" Coteaz bubble and kill pretty much everything else in one go, including the Knight if they can get a melta squad each side of it.
I imagine you'd also have problems against necrons or eldar, you'd have to hide or reserve your scoring units or they'd be gone before you could blink, leaving them just needing to grab an objective late game to win.

Nope, 3 servo skulls give a huge protection bubble around one of my scoring squads, that's been combated. Then if Coteaz is near, a volley of heavy fire can cause a lot of damage. One of my scoring units uses true line of sight so they can't actually be targeted behind the imperial knight.

 randomtoaster wrote:
Currently i'm in a local GW campaign (1200 points and must have a psyker), and so far i've gone 5-0 atm, nothing has come close yet. I've taken down Tau twice, Ultramarines, Blood Angels and Dark Angels, and i'm finding it hard to see why any of these games haven't been close (4 out of 5 games were a whitewash), how can I make this list stronger?

Basically my tactics are to leave the inquisitor with the acolyte henchmen squad in a ruin far back as possible, using the henchmen as extra wounds while using the conversion beamer to great effect picking stuff off, Coteaz goes with the other henchmen squad, generally sitting behind the cover of the Imperial Knight who just wanders right on through. Vindicare is infiltrated into cover to pick off any invun saves or any vehicles that could be a threat. The dread also sits on the ruins with the inquisitor squad, having high ground and a huge LOS, while keeping a 4+ cover save. Storm Raven just also comes on and does it's thing, generally there to take down any flyers that I may face.

Inquisition detachment
Inquisitor (plasma pistol, 3 x servo skulls, conversion beamer, power armour) 97

HQ
Coteaz 100

Elites
Vindicare assassin (145)

Troops
Henchmen (1 x acolyte W/ Carpiece armour and hot shot lasgun, 4 x acolytes with boltguns) 33
Henchmen (Jokero, MM servitor x 3) 65

Fast Attack
Storm Raven (psybolt, hurricane bolters, TL AC, TL MM) 255

Heavy support
Psyrifle Dread 135

Imperial Knights detachment
Knight Errant 370

I'd like to see how this list would fare against:

HQ:
Commander with 2 Flamers, Target Lock, Drone Controller, Iridium Armor, MSSS, C&C Node, PEN, 2 Gun Drones

Elites:

Bonded Crisis Team:
Crisis Suit with 2 Fusion Blasters, Vectored Retro-Thruster 1 Gun Drone
Crisis Suit with 2 Fusion Blasters, 2 Gun Drones
Crisis Suit with 2 Fusion Blasters, 2 Gun Drones

DS with these guys and the Buffmander; 6 S8 melta shots that re-roll hits, ignore cover and re-roll armor pen. I'll DS the unit to the Knight's side or rear, so you cant use your shield both against this unit's shooting AND the Longstrike Hammerhead and Skyrays firing at you from the other side. Commander has dual Flamers in case someone tries to charge them, and can split fire if necessary to fry infantry squads rather than buffing the suits. 7 Drones are ablative wounds; T5 2+sv Commander will tank wounds. Doubt your Vindicare will live longer than 1 turn when these boys deep strike in his neighborhood


Stealth Team:
Stealth Suit, 2 Gun Drones
Stealth Suit
Stealth Suit

More DS'ing anti-infantry firepower. Lets see how much punishment your henchmen can take.

Troops:
Devilfish with Disruption Pod
6 Firewarriors with Pulse Rifles

Devilfish with Disruption Pod
6 Firewarriors with Pulse Rifles

Objective grabbers. Got 4+ cover against your psyfleman dread,

8 Firewarriors

8 Firewarriors

8 Firewarriors

These guys gunline behind the ADL. Since you dont have assault-units, the gunline wont be buckling anytime soon

Heavy Support:

Skyray, TL-SMS, Disruption Pod, Blacksun FIlter
Skyray, TL-SMS, Disruption Pod, Blacksun Filter

Here's the bulk of my anti-stormraven firepower. Lets see how you'll be able to eat 12 S8 Skyfired Missiles and survive.


Hammerhead with Railgun, Submunitions, TL-SMS, Longstrike, 2 Seekers, Disruption Pod

Primary Knight hunter. BS5, S10, AP1, 2 Seekers, everything re-rolling failed armor pen

ADL with Icarus Las

another skyfire weapon that doubles as a Knight hunter


1200 points

 randomtoaster wrote:

 grrrfranky wrote:
A drop pod list would have a field day against you, it wouldn't be that hard to drop outside of the 12" Coteaz bubble and kill pretty much everything else in one go, including the Knight if they can get a melta squad each side of it.
I imagine you'd also have problems against necrons or eldar, you'd have to hide or reserve your scoring units or they'd be gone before you could blink, leaving them just needing to grab an objective late game to win.

Nope, 3 servo skulls give a huge protection bubble around one of my scoring squads, that's been combated. Then if Coteaz is near, a volley of heavy fire can cause a lot of damage. One of my scoring units uses true line of sight so they can't actually be targeted behind the imperial knight.

I don't know about inq servo skulls as I don't have the codex, but GK servo skulls don't give you any deep strike protection, they just stop scouts and infiltrators.

Screamerstar or herald council. Seer council. Maybe a farsight bomb. Basically if your going to build a netlist cheese factory like that, you can't be beat without same.

None of those games were close because none of those people bought and assembled the best human troops from several codex/supplements to create an all-star cheese ball HOF list.

Now go play a screamerstar list, seer council, serpent spam and so on. Let us know how you do against other min/maxers who enjoy that.

randomtoaster wrote:

 grrrfranky wrote:
A drop pod list would have a field day against you, it wouldn't be that hard to drop outside of the 12" Coteaz bubble and kill pretty much everything else in one go, including the Knight if they can get a melta squad each side of it.
I imagine you'd also have problems against necrons or eldar, you'd have to hide or reserve your scoring units or they'd be gone before you could blink, leaving them just needing to grab an objective late game to win.

Nope, 3 servo skulls give a huge protection bubble around one of my scoring squads, that's been combated. Then if Coteaz is near, a volley of heavy fire can cause a lot of damage. One of my scoring units uses true line of sight so they can't actually be targeted behind the imperial knight.

There are a lot of things wrong with this statement.

Servo skulls do nothing to enemy DSers.

Coteaz has to have a squad which can do a lot of damage for him to matter and avoiding him is pretty easy with the movement the drop pod gives you.

TLoS the knight could never block any scoring unit behind it. You can see through the gap in his legs to anything in the game from a warhound to a unit of 3 ratlings. This makes absolutely no sense as the entire concept of TLoS is that if you can see it you can shoot it.



@OP
Your list is okay but should not be giving the win ratio you report. I don't know your situation but it sounds like your opponent's are playing random selection type lists which do not bring a balance of threats. If you are winning so much you probably don't want to optimize your list more (which you definitely could) as that will cause more lopsided games. Rather your opponents sound like they could really use some advice or perhaps new dice.

OP's list is light on troops and they're not durable either. Theres the weakness.

It's 11 infrantry dudes with 3 vehicles with only the knight and the stormraven being particularly sturdy... I'm pretty sure some normal armies should be able to beat it without resorting to tailoring against it.

How did this list even win 5 times...

1) Not enough scoring units

2) Not many soldiers in said scoring units

3) Only real battlefield presence is the knight. If that falls everything else will.

4) Only really decent anti AV13+ unit is the Vindicare. Which is why they tend to have short life spans.

5) Only good AA defense is the stormraven.

I would drop the psifleman and get some more bodies on the field.

How did you beat Tau, exactly? Did he bring only firewarriors, and no sides or tides?

I would prob drop Plasma pistol and PA on Inq. 18pts

Vindi 145

The Hotshot and Carp on aco 10pts

Hurrican bolters 30pts psybolt ?

Over 200 pts could get you 5 man purg squad w/ 4 Inc in that Stromraven to drop where you want that ignores cover and shoots thru walls and doesn't need LoS. 100pts. You could even put the las cannon on the raven now as you have a troop wrecker and no Vindi.

and a 2nd Inq w Prescience and beamer to go w 1st. 2 Conv beamers rerolling scatter is good or I'd rather 10 man GK strike squad to combat squad into 2 to give you 2 Warp Quake bubbles and 2 more troops. Place them on the outside of the Knight and on the other side of Coteaz and your covered.

Why are you asking for how to make it better if you're already wiping the floor with everyone else? And who the hell is ever going to want to play against you after this? Regardless of what they say to your face, they're all unhappy about playing you afterwards and won't want to again.