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chaos0xomega wrote:
Basically the argument was that the algorithm had determined there were approximately 20 million people who fit the profile of someone who could threaten HYDRA and their goal of bringing peace or freedom to the world or whatever it was they were trying to push. Their solution was to eliminate all these people so that they could accomplish their goals.

Oh ok. That makes more sense to me. That's why it target Tony Stark and the rest of the Avengers essentially. Got it! I knew it was something that made some sense.

chaos0xomega wrote:
5. The movie (sadly) really shouldnt have been called The Winter Soldier... he isn't the primary villain, you cant really even say hes the secondary, he isnt even really relevant or important to the plot, he's merely a convenient sub-plot, but not one that has any real impact on the overall story of the film. You could substitute him for pretty much any generic baddie and things would play out more or less the same.

"The Winter Soldier" subtitle was a red herring to keep the HYDRA-has-taken-over-S.H.I.E.L.D plot twist a secret.

7. Definitely a post-9/11 film

I'm looking forward to a "post-post-9/11" everything.

I just saw it and freaking loved this movie. The political overtones were well done and somewhat ballsy for Hollywood. (any criticising of the Obama administration is ballsy in Hollywood.) The action was fast and surprisingly brutal.

Fantastic movie with a refreshing political message.

Nice hat tip to Pulp Fiction on Fury's headstone. Also I was surprised to see Loki's staff in HYDRA's possession in the end credit scene. I thought Thor would've taken that back to Asgard with Loki at the end of The Avengers.

 Zathras wrote:
Nice hat tip to Pulp Fiction on Fury's headstone. Also I was surprised to see Loki's staff in HYDRA's possession in the end credit scene. I thought Thor would've taken that back to Asgard with Loki at the end of The Avengers.

He would have, but you see, that would require common sense, and as we all know;



Such power is clearly not on Thor's DM approved character sheet

 MWHistorian wrote:
I just saw it and freaking loved this movie. The political overtones were well done and somewhat ballsy for Hollywood. (any criticising of the Obama administration is ballsy in Hollywood.) The action was fast and surprisingly brutal.

I don’t know about that. I can think of multiple Hollywood films that have criticized the ‘war on terror’ and the methods used by the secret services to wage it. I’m not sure where this idea that CA is groundbreaking in this regard have come from.

Is it becuase this film has come out under the Obama administration as opposed to others which came out under Bush?

 LuciusAR wrote:
I don’t know about that. I can think of multiple Hollywood films that have criticized the ‘war on terror’ and the methods used by the secret services to wage it. I’m not sure where this idea that CA is groundbreaking in this regard have come from.

Is it becuase this film has come out under the Obama administration as opposed to others which came out under Bush?

I'm guessing no-one saw Transformers II, which wasn't exactly subtle in its political commentary.

Mind you, I think the whole idea that Hollywood makes liberal films is bizarre. They make stuff that makes money. And that means making loads of action movies, almost all of which have had themes and assumptions that rest very easily with a conservative worldview.

 LuciusAR wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
I just saw it and freaking loved this movie. The political overtones were well done and somewhat ballsy for Hollywood. (any criticising of the Obama administration is ballsy in Hollywood.) The action was fast and surprisingly brutal.

I don’t know about that. I can think of multiple Hollywood films that have criticized the ‘war on terror’ and the methods used by the secret services to wage it. I’m not sure where this idea that CA is groundbreaking in this regard have come from.

Is it because this film has come out under the Obama administration as opposed to others which came out under Bush?

More that it criticized an Obama policy of drone strikes and such. The movies critical of Bush had a different tone to their message and were more anti-war/anti-occupation/anti-imperialism in nature and often implied corruption in the administration.

 Breotan wrote:

Is it because this film has come out under the Obama administration as opposed to others which came out under Bush?More that it criticized an Obama policy of drone strikes and such. The movies critical of Bush had a different tone to their message and were more anti-war/anti-occupation/anti-imperialism in nature and often implied corruption in the administration.

Thats an interesting point. Is the use of drone strikes something that has only come about under Obama administration? I was under the assumption that they had been used for some time, though perhaps their use has been stepped up under the Democrats as they where a seen as a good alternative to boots on the ground and bodies coming home in bags.

I don’t think I’ve seen much criticism of Drone warfare used against foreign targets from Conservatives. In fact I’ve read a number of Conservatives who’ve praised their use against terrorists. Most of the opposition to drones previously came from Liberals.

The change seems to have been when there was talk of the potential use of drones domestically and the emergence of ‘kill lists’ that contained US citizens outside of combat zones. This seems to have brought together the Liberal Left and Libertarian Right in condemnation of drone warfare.

One of things about this films that’s so interesting is that it’s gained positive reviews from both Left and Right wing news sites and both seem utterly convinced the film is on their side.

 LuciusAR wrote:
One of things about this films that’s so interesting is that it’s gained positive reviews from both Left and Right wing news sites and both seem utterly convinced the film is on their side.

That's because contrary to fantasy, Hollywood isn't libral. Hollywood is greedy. They strive to make broad appeal films and that means they try to make movies that will appeal to both sides of the political spectrum. The Lego movie was the same way. Both sides argued it was in agreement with them (or against them) for different reasons. It's why there's an offhanded line about climate change in Pacific Rim. It's why there's a romance sub-plot shoe horned into every movie. It's why films often cater to lowest common denominator. This is the kind of goldmine Hollywood wants, a movie just about anyone can convince themselves is in line with their political/personal views.

Contrary to what people think, most movies are not made by a person who wanted to make a movie they're made by a panel of producers in an office who decide what movie will make them money. Then they hire someone to write the script based on their notes, someone else to direct, and some other guys to put their pretty faces in front of the camera (which is how the awesome concept of Nottingham became the bland Gladiator Sequel that is Robin Hood).

And then sometimes you get films like, say, the new Robocop, or Avatar - films that bash their message into your head in the most unsubtle ways possible.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe he was in the elevator with Cap when he explained to him what Project Insight was intended to do (which was to pre-emptively engage potential future threats, Cap at one point says something to the effect of "So now we're assuming their guilty before they even do anything" or something to that effect, and Nick defends the program. Sure HYDRA might have gone further with it (offing 20 million) than he intended to (Offing 4 million <- arbitrary number). Does it really make a difference how many people they intended to kill? It was the same goal and same methodology either way.

Captain America "I thought the punishment came after the crime?"

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
the new Robocop,

Honestly, people ask "Why did they remake robocop, the original will always be better" and I am reminded that for a area that pushes our so much media, people have nearly no idea how Hollywood is actually run. Robocop was remade for two bigs reasons; because someone thought it would be a money making idea, and because it's not that hard to adapt Robocop's plot to cater to a very big issue in contemporary politics. Understandably, the movie apparently completely missed the satire fest that is the original Robocop but I'm failry certain that most of the people running Hollywood don't watch the drivel they shill out every year and are incapable of picking up on any theme that isn't placed on the front of a very large hammer and bashed into their face over and over

Avatar is an oddball, because James Cameron is one of the few people who can walk up to Hollywood and dictate to the producers how things are going to be, which tends to happen when you've made a half dozen films that broke box office records.

 pities2004 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe he was in the elevator with Cap when he explained to him what Project Insight was intended to do (which was to pre-emptively engage potential future threats, Cap at one point says something to the effect of "So now we're assuming their guilty before they even do anything" or something to that effect, and Nick defends the program. Sure HYDRA might have gone further with it (offing 20 million) than he intended to (Offing 4 million <- arbitrary number). Does it really make a difference how many people they intended to kill? It was the same goal and same methodology either way.

Captain America "I thought the punishment came after the crime?"

YES! There we go, thank you, I knew it was more eloquent than I put it.

Sounds like tonight's ep of shield takes place right after winter soldier
http://www.blastr.com/2014-4-8/new-extended-trailer-previews-shields-return-aftermath-winter-soldier

It will be nice if at least one of the people on the team is a HYDRA member instead of copping out and having it be the only unblemished area of SHIELD. Not holding my breath though.

 Ahtman wrote:
It will be nice if at least one of the people on the team is a HYDRA member instead of copping out and having it be the only unblemished area of SHIELD. Not holding my breath though.

The episode description on my DVR specifically says that "they find that one of their number is a traitor"...and the name of the episode is "Turn, Turn, Turn...".

If they don't actually have a traitor with all that? They'll have been silly.

One thing I noticed though is that the way the "teaser" for this episode was, it seems to not be set in the aftermath of Winter Soldier(like "The Well" episode was set after Thor 2: The Dark World), but rather it is set during the events of Winter Soldier.

Okay, this is pretty sick. The check list Cap had in the opening of the movie? It's different in different countries!

US

I Love Lucy (TV show)
Moon Landing
Berlin Wall up + down
Steve Jobs (Apple)
Disco
Thai Food
Star Wars/Trek
Nirvana (band)
Rocky (Rocky II?)
Troubleman (soundtrack)

UK

TV Show – Sherlock
Moon Landing
The Beatles
World Cup Final (1966)
Sean Connery
Thai Food
Star Wars/Trek
Nirvana (band)
Rocky (Rocky II?)
Troubleman (soundtrack)

Full List here

Kind of awesome.

 LordofHats wrote:
Okay, this is pretty sick. The check list Cap had in the opening of the movie? It's different in different countries!

US

I Love Lucy (TV show)
Moon Landing
Berlin Wall up + down
Steve Jobs (Apple)
Disco
Thai Food
Star Wars/Trek
Nirvana (band)
Rocky (Rocky II?)
Troubleman (soundtrack)

UK

TV Show – Sherlock
Moon Landing
The Beatles
World Cup Final (1966)
Sean Connery
Thai Food
Star Wars/Trek
Nirvana (band)
Rocky (Rocky II?)
Troubleman (soundtrack)

Full List here

Kind of awesome.

That is all kinds of awesome. Thank you for posting that.

 LordofHats wrote:
Okay, this is pretty sick. The check list Cap had in the opening of the movie? It's different in different countries!

Interesting, but why would they do this?

I mean, he's Captain America. Not Captain UK, Captain Germany, Captain Australia, Captain France, etc...

 Grey Templar wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
Okay, this is pretty sick. The check list Cap had in the opening of the movie? It's different in different countries!

Interesting, but why would they do this?

I mean, he's Captain America. Not Captain UK, Captain Germany, Captain Australia, Captain France, etc...

It would be better if he were Captain New Jersey, but I digress.

Its part of localization, the topics they swapped out for are theoretically big enough deals in those countries that they are assumed to be common knowledge type deals, its just an attempt to make the character more relatable to audiences and show that he's out of touch with the times. It loses some of its impact if the audience itself is unfamiliar with half the items on that list.

chaos0xomega wrote:
It would be better if he were Captain New Jersey, but I digress.

Its part of localization, the topics they swapped out for are theoretically big enough deals in those countries that they are assumed to be common knowledge type deals, its just an attempt to make the character more relatable to audiences and show that he's out of touch with the times. It loses some of its impact if the audience itself is unfamiliar with half the items on that list.

Yeah, but much of the US list is more relatable to people 10-30 years older than Rogers is biologically(he's still mid 20's or so). If he wants to catch up, Disco, I love Lucy, and Rocky are hardly relevant to the people in his actual age range. I understand he's just writing down suggestions from other people, but he states later he knows how to use the internet, why is this list not finished yet and moved on to more relevant topics?

Hell, if I asked a bunch of current military guys(not a stretch, they're the only friends I have around these days), like his strike team buddies, what should I should look into that I missed, it wouldn't be anywhere close to that list. Are Fury and Stark the only people he knows?

 Ahtman wrote:
It will be nice if at least one of the people on the team is a HYDRA member instead of copping out and having it be the only unblemished area of SHIELD. Not holding my breath though.

If the show had any balls, it'd be Ward who's the Hydra plant. But I doubt the show will. The Clairvoyant won't be anything to do with Armin Zola/the algorithm/Hydra but instead just be one of the reoccurring people they've introduced so far (my money's on Garrett), and the show will continue to skirt the edges of the MCU rather than being part of it.

I want to be wrong more than anything, but I don't think I am.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:
It will be nice if at least one of the people on the team is a HYDRA member instead of copping out and having it be the only unblemished area of SHIELD. Not holding my breath though.

The episode description on my DVR specifically says that "they find that one of their number is a traitor"...and the name of the episode is "Turn, Turn, Turn...".

If they don't actually have a traitor with all that? They'll have been silly.

The other possibility, which to me will still fall under the writers being giant wusses, would be if it were someone completely tangential to the main group. It needs to be one of the core team members.

Surely, if the episode is called Turn, Turn, Turn. It'll be someone on the team doing a triple cross, probably working directly under Fury's orders. That way, cast doesn't change, but we get a bunch of drama with the cast feeling betrayed and all that jazz.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
Okay, this is pretty sick. The check list Cap had in the opening of the movie? It's different in different countries!

Interesting, but why would they do this?

I mean, he's Captain America. Not Captain UK, Captain Germany, Captain Australia, Captain France, etc...

One of the single best panels from The Ultimates.

Well...there's definitely a major member of the team actually turned traitor.

Two members actually.

Good movie. Some of the best fight scenes of the Marvel Movie Universe. They just completely captured the way Cap fights perfectly. The plot is actually a bit overrated but still one of the best Marvel Movies to date.