Disney sued for failing to accomadate children w/ mental disabilities

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**hotsauceman1**

My cousin told me about this, how people will often abuse the ride system (I once got offered to buy a Make-A-Wish button)
http://www.disabilityscoop.com/2014/04/08/disney-sued-disability-policy/19263/

Disney is facing allegations of discrimination, with a lawsuit charging that modifications to the company’s policy for accommodating people with disabilities at its theme parks violate the Americans with Disabilities Act.
The lawsuit filed last week by mothers of 16 kids and young adults with developmental disabilities from across the nation accuses Walt Disney Parks and Resorts of failing to accommodate their children’s special needs and of actively dissuading their presence at the company’s theme parks.
The move comes after Disney made sweeping changes to its policy for accommodating park visitors with disabilities last fall. For years, Disney had offered individuals with special needs a pass that often allowed them and their guests to skip to the front of long lines for park attractions.
Now, however, visitors to Walt Disney World and Disneyland can obtain a Disability Access Service Card which allows them to schedule a return time for rides based on current wait times. The system prevents those with disabilities from having to wait in line, but only allows visitors to schedule one attraction at a time.
Disney said the changes — which took effect in October — came after its existing system was “abused and exploited.” In their suit, however, the families allege that there was no abuse, but rather that the company wished to “cleanse its parks of what Disney views as the anti-Magic of such persons’ stimming, tics and meltdowns.”
The 180-page complaint filed in the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California details long waits and unhelpful interactions with employees at Disney parks. Moreover, the suit alleges that Disney won’t discuss accommodations with families until they have invested significant sums of money to arrive at a park.
In the suit, a mother known as M.B. alleges that she waited in line for an hour and a half to receive a Disability Access Card for her 6-year-old with autism who is referred to in court documents as A.B. Even though she offered park officials medical documentation about her child’s inability to tolerate waits, the mother says she was given no choice but to schedule a return time at “It’s a Small World” which A.B. wanted to ride repeatedly. After riding twice, A.B. faced another hour-and-fifteen-minute wait and entered a “full-fledged meltdown,” the lawsuit alleges.
In a separate case, the suit indicates that a mother known as L.C. tried to take her 7-year-old with autism, referred to as J.C., to Disney World several times since the new policy took effect. L.C. said her child has had multiple meltdowns after learning of wait times to ride “Peter Pan” and “Winnie the Pooh,” with J.C. falling to the ground or jumping up and down with arms spinning around. As a result, L.C. is no longer taking her child to Disney parks and does not plan to renew the family’s annual passes.
“Until recently, parents of developmentally disabled children universally adored Disney, because of the way Disney caringly accommodated their children,” said attorney Andy Dogali who is representing the families. “No reasonable mind could ever conclude, after investigating these facts and spending extensive time with these families, anything other than Disney willingly abandoned them.”
The lawsuit also alleges that Disney has a secret offering known as the “Magic List” whereby the company extends to select individuals five passes to gain immediate access to rides without even obtaining a Disability Access Card.
The families are seeking damages and are looking to compel Disney to alter its policies and practices.
In a statement to Disability Scoop, Walt Disney Parks and Resorts stood by their existing policies.
“Disney Parks have an unwavering commitment to providing an inclusive and accessible environment for all our guests. We fully comply with all ADA requirements and believe that the legal claims are without merit,” the company said.

**Seaward**

Hmm. I find myself on both sides on this.

Weird.

**Ouze**

From what I read here I believe they have accommodated these families in a reasonable fashion. The standard is to give an equal experience to all; what they are asking for is a better experience than others.

**hotsauceman1**

Yeah its weird, On one hand, You have kids with Autism who dont understand that there are things like waiting. but on the other hand, people abused this to all hell. And eventually the Kids with Autism will have to understand that waits exist.

**LordofHats**

How many of us saw this coming like, a year ago, when that woman who had her kids pretend to be disabled so she could cut in line got caught being a terrible person. That's why we can't have nice things.

Life; Something terrible people ruin for the rest of us.

**Grey Templar**

I'm with Disney on this. Their new system is perfectly accommodating and is a step up from the previous system which was discriminatory to non-disabled people.

**Ouze**

I have the utmost sympathy for the parents of children with autism, and I would normally say that, well, going above and beyond wouldn't really be an undue hardship on such a large company; to give the better experience. I've read quite a bit about the scamming that forced them to change it, so at this point I think, now that a proven and clear business reason exists, the previous system was no longer a reasonable accommodation, and that giving them a set return time, while a lessened experience than previously, is now the reasonable choice in view of the no-longer-feasible alternative options. It's not any accommodation, it's a reasonable one, and that can be a moving target when the situation changes.

**A GumyBear**

I agree with ouze, these families are trying to sue a company for not giving them special treatment instead of fair treatment simply because one of the family members suffer from a disability. Just because your child can't tolerate waiting doesn't mean you can do whatever they want whenever they want.

**ScootyPuffJunior**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
Yeah its weird, On one hand, You have kids with Autism who dont understand that there are things like waiting. but on the other hand, people abused this to all hell. And eventually the Kids with Autism will have to understand that waits exist.

No, it is up to the parent to schedule when to ride each attraction, which is similar to how the FastPass system works now.

Ouze is spot on with his view; Disney is offering equal accommodations and the plaintiffs are asking for more. There is still the FastPass system and if anyone really wants to skip to the front of the line, that service is available to all patrons through the Disney private guides... if the guest is willing to pay for it.

**Grey Templar**

I remember when you didn't have to pay for Fast Pass.

**hotsauceman1**

You dont. Last time I went, you put your ticket in, told to come back at a certain time, usually an hour to an hour and a half and you get hussled to the front. Unless they changed it

**Grey Templar**

I heard you now pay for it.

**lambsandlions**

I am a former Disney ride operator and people did abuse the old system. The system is not meant to get you a free pass onto the ride without wait, it is meant to accommodate people who can not wait in a crowded area. The fact that these people are upset that they are being made to wait just shows how they wished to abuse the system.

Under the old system, families would often give their able children the pass while they took the disabled children on rides like Winnie the Pooh which never has more than a 5 minute wait. Or people without disabilities lie to receive a card to get in the front of the line. I have also had people showing me passes that are days or months old because they got it from a friend. Offering a return time means people who can not stay in lines will get to avoid the lines and less people will claim to be disabled to try and abuse the system. There is also plenty to do in the park while waiting for your return time so it is still better than having to wait in line. And if your child is really that bad maybe a theme park isn't the best place to take them.

To be honest I don't think this has anything to do with people who have mental disabilities but is a reaction to the people who rent wheelchairs and scooters. Anyone can rent them no questions asked and as many of the older rides in disneyland are not wheelchair accessible this meant that people were often sent to the front of the line to get on. However the wheelchair access is not always faster, Pirates of the Caribbean for example is 20 minutes long and can only have 6 wheel chair guests on at a time because of fire codes. The line for Pirates is usually under 30 minutes but the wheel chair line can take up to an hour and a half. And it is really sad to see people with disney bought wheelchairs taking space up in the line while an actually disabled person has to wait three times as long as they normally would have.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

Ouze is spot on with his view; Disney is offering equal accommodations and the plaintiffs are asking for more. There is still the FastPass system and if anyone really wants to skip to the front of the line, that service is available to all patrons through the Disney private guides... if the guest is willing to pay for it.

Private guides do not automatically skip you to the front of the line. You need to file a case and if it is approved you get a pass that lets you skip to the front of the line. Normally this is only reserved for celebrates. A normal guide does offer fast pass services though which is like getting to skip to the front for many rides.

**timetowaste85**

After the scams they went through of some people abusing the system, it's no surprise they're changing things. This is an example of douchebags ruining it for everyone else. Disney isn't to blame.

**Jihadin**

Just shows people willing to take advantage regardless on how far it makes it for everyone. Next thing you know height requirement are discriminatory against "short" people. IE Tyrion Lannister.....

Edit

Fair I mean

**Polonius**

Legally, this is a really tough law suit. ADA claims require a jury finding that the requested accomodation was reasonable, which I think what the families are asking for goes beyond. As has been stated, they're asking for a return to the old system, which was a huge perk.

Realistically, suits like this are meant to shame corporations. The goal isn't to win, as much as it is to get Disney to settle to avoid news stories about how they hate disabled children. I don't think now is the time. People's sympathy for the disabled and the... "disabled" is at a bit of low point these days.

**Hulksmash**

And having watched people that are obviously healthy walk up and take a spot on a ride you've been waiting 1-2 hours for is something I'd say most park goers have experienced at one time or another. Which only lowers my sympathy for the people involved in this suit. The new system is fair. If you child isn't healthy enough be able to function under it at the new park then sorry, maybe it isn't the place for him/her.

**Doctadeth**

Both sides are correct from what I can see. Disney is at an inability to cope with kids with autism. And from what I know, trips like those are a godsend to those families. Its something that I do feel sorry for with the families.

Yes, disney did away with the system to stop scammers. But the problem with that is why they were "scamming" in the first place. Low income, disability carers.

Sucks to be a disabled kids carer in the states. Especially a single mother.

**agnosto**

Yeah, I'm ok with their new policy. Just look at what constitutes "developmentally disabled" these days. According to the CDC, 1 in 6 children in the US have one or more DDs. This includes ADD/ADHD. Sure the story mentions a specific family with a child with Autism but I wonder how many of the plaintiffs include kids who do not actually "need" special services.

This is the society that we live in; one where we create good will and services for special needs and then also create an environment where these things are easily abused due to over-reaching legislation.

**Doctadeth**

At the same time looking at those people with special needs children who actually need special provision.

**Polonius**

Doctadeth wrote:
At the same time looking at those people with special needs children who actually need special provision.

While I'm sure a small percentage of cases slip through the cracks, in my experience there are far more children with IEPs, SSI, or other services that don't need them, then those that need them but don't have them.

**Medium of Death**

Disney is completely in the right. In an ideal world they could have maintained the old system but too many scumbags abused it. It takes a particularly wretched kind of individual to pretend to be disabled to gain the "benefit" of not having to wait in a queue.

I hope this goes in Disney's favour.

I wonder if a pre-application for a special type of disabled friendly tickets could be achieved by requiring medical proof of disability. It would be easy for those with genuine disability to apply, but perhaps harder for anybody else that wanted to fraud the system. In saying that it would require a fair amount of man hours and would probably be equally abused and open to more legal issues.

**whembly**

Ouze wrote:
I have the utmost sympathy for the parents of children with autism, and I would normally say that, well, going above and beyond wouldn't really be an undue hardship on such a large company; to give the better experience. I've read quite a bit about the scamming that forced them to change it, so at this point I think, now that a proven and clear business reason exists, the previous system was no longer a reasonable accommodation, and that giving them a set return time, while a lessened experience than previously, is now the reasonable choice in view of the no-longer-feasible alternative options. It's not any accommodation, it's a reasonable one, and that can be a moving target when the situation changes.

Totally agree Ouze.

I saw first hand how this was abused 2 years ago when I took my boys (a fething blast, I wanna go back

). Every. Single. Group. That. Skipped. The. Line. In. EVERY. RIDE... Looked like normal kids. They may have valid disabilities... but that disablity doesn't make it "harder" to wait in line like everyone else.

I've been around disable kids all my life (spent most of my elementry education at Special School District) and there's a very small slice of that population who would need help like that (mainly due to physical disabilities).

**Orlanth**

This phenomena needs a philosopical rather than a legislative solution.

Things will go a lot better if it becomes more clearly understood that you can legislate against discrimination, but you cannot legislate away disability.

As a philosophical point we can explore it further, does a bed ridden paraplegic have the right to be accommodated for every facility at Disney, or anywhere else. Obviously not, you cant expect Disney to make every ride accessible from a mobile bed, Mary Poppins notwithstanding.

Once we have established you cannot cater for absolutely everyone then you have to set realistic thresholds as to what can be achieved. If rides require waiting and some disabilities make waiting intolerable then it may have an unresolvable impasse. Queue removal creates a privilege situation which is inconsistent with equality legislation.

Service providers must have a point at which they can set thresholds for disability inclusion which some unfortunates will remain beyond.

After all if the US government, which has a duty to do more than anyone else to provide access for the disabled; are still after all these years are yet to build even a single wheelchair accessible air-superiority fighter, then why cannot a private company determine a threshold at which it is no longer practical to provide disability support.

**hotsauceman1**

whembly wrote:
Ouze wrote:
I have the utmost sympathy for the parents of children with autism, and I would normally say that, well, going above and beyond wouldn't really be an undue hardship on such a large company; to give the better experience. I've read quite a bit about the scamming that forced them to change it, so at this point I think, now that a proven and clear business reason exists, the previous system was no longer a reasonable accommodation, and that giving them a set return time, while a lessened experience than previously, is now the reasonable choice in view of the no-longer-feasible alternative options. It's not any accommodation, it's a reasonable one, and that can be a moving target when the situation changes.

Totally agree Ouze.

I saw first hand how this was abused 2 years ago when I took my boys (a fething blast, I wanna go back ). Every. Single. Group. That. Skipped. The. Line. In. EVERY. RIDE... Looked like normal kids. They may have valid disabilities... but that disability doesn't make it "harder" to wait in line like everyone else.

I've been around disable kids all my life (spent most of my elementary education at Special School District) and there's a very small slice of that population who would need help like that (mainly due to physical disabilities).

Y'know, its funny, in "California Adventure" ever queue has lines wide enough for a wheelchair. This way, they dont have to use those passes, I never saw anyone skip there, but I did seem complaining "Why cant we skip"

**Medium of Death**

Orlanth wrote:
*Snip*

Too bad so sad, eh?

Disingenuous examples are disingenuous.

**agnosto**

It's all about reasonable accommodations. Letting 1 in 6 people skip lines completely is just creating an environment of abuse. I know everyone has to be a special snow-flake but I would just be POd watching a long conga line of people float by when I paid the same price of admission.

**Yodhrin**

Hulksmash wrote:
And having watched people that are obviously healthy walk up and take a spot on a ride you've been waiting 1-2 hours for is something I'd say most park goers have experienced at one time or another. Which only lowers my sympathy for the people involved in this suit. The new system is fair. If you child isn't healthy enough be able to function under it at the new park then sorry, maybe it isn't the place for him/her.

This kind of crap annoys the stuffing out of me. How do you know someone is "obviously healthy"? Oh that's right, I forgot, only people in wheelchairs or with obvious deformities are really disabled, the rest are "disabled" as Polonius put it. And yeah, damnit, why can't these crips and nuttos just know their place and stay away from places where normal people go? I mean christ, these autistic types coming along to a theme park and expecting to be treated in a way that mildly inconveniences people so they can have an experience that would otherwise be denied to them, how bloody inconsiderate can you get!

As for the system being "abused", lets see some proof. Not anecdotal nonsense about how that one time, at band camp, you saw a person that could walk normally and didn't have a massive public breakdown within the ten seconds they were within your line of sight skip a queue; evidence. You know what I'll bet? I'll bet that when you look at the statistics, you'll find exactly the same thing you find when you look at social security for the sick and disabled - fraud is a tiny fraction, often costing the system less than is lost through basic paperwork errors, and that the perception people have that the system is groaning under the unbearable weight of chancers, schemers, liars, and cheats all gaming it is a crock, based on the ignorance and biases of the perceiver.

**hotsauceman1**

Um, there where tour agencies offering disabled tours.

**Hulksmash**

Yodhrin wrote:
Hulksmash wrote:
And having watched people that are obviously healthy walk up and take a spot on a ride you've been waiting 1-2 hours for is something I'd say most park goers have experienced at one time or another. Which only lowers my sympathy for the people involved in this suit. The new system is fair. If you child isn't healthy enough be able to function under it at the new park then sorry, maybe it isn't the place for him/her.

This kind of crap annoys the stuffing out of me. How do you know someone is "obviously healthy"? Oh that's right, I forgot, only people in wheelchairs or with obvious deformities are really disabled, the rest are "disabled" as Polonius put it. And yeah, damnit, why can't these crips and nuttos just know their place and stay away from places where normal people go? I mean christ, these autistic types coming along to a theme park and expecting to be treated in a way that mildly inconveniences people so they can have an experience that would otherwise be denied to them, how bloody inconsiderate can you get!

As for the system being "abused", lets see some proof. Not anecdotal nonsense about how that one time, at band camp, you saw a person that could walk normally and didn't have a massive public breakdown within the ten seconds they were within your line of sight skip a queue; evidence. You know what I'll bet? I'll bet that when you look at the statistics, you'll find exactly the same thing you find when you look at social security for the sick and disabled - fraud is a tiny fraction, often costing the system less than is lost through basic paperwork errors, and that the perception people have that the system is groaning under the unbearable weight of chancers, schemers, liars, and cheats all gaming it is a crock, based on the ignorance and biases of the perceiver.

Unaccompanied minors is a start for an indication there isn't anything seriously wrong with them...Just saying before you get all high and mighty. Also, having spent a significant amount of time with high functioning disabled people it's not hard to spot the difference.

As for numbers do you think Disneyland (one of the most wired places on earth) didn't have those numbers before making the changes it did. It doesn't cost them anything to have people cutting. In fact, the change might cost them money at the expense of real fairness.