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-Shrike- wrote: IIRC, there are 8 films. Let's not forget the FUN that was The Clone Wars, as we watched monstrous caricatures of awful prequel trilogy characters waltz around the galaxy, saving Jabba the Hutt's son!
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Obviously they're using the more obscure definition of Precise: strictly conforming to a pattern, standard, or convention
A wildly inaccurate pattern which is standard training and convention for all Stormtroopers.
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Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/26 06:52:15
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2014/04/26 06:59:45
Subject: Re:Good News About The New Star Wars Films
What's great about the EU is that there are a number of gems for each fan. What sucks about the EU is that, for that same fan, the rest of it doesn't fit. To wit: For me, yuzhan vong or whatever make no sense in SW. Others can't imagine SW without them.
Sturmtruppen wrote: Actually, by ignoring the EU, this means we might get to see something that I was hoping there'd be more of in the EU, but there isn't as much. It's something that harkens to certain elements of Revenge of the Sith (hiss, heresy!) in that RotS showed us things the Republic has that hinted at being predecessors to what we'd see on either side of the conflict in the original trilogy, e.g. the ARC-170s and X-wings, the V-wings and Jedi Starfighters preceding TIE Fighters, and the helmets of the clone pilots were specifically designed to be halfway between Imperial and Rebel pilot helmets. So something which I'd like to see is this coming full-circle: the New Republic acquiring and using Imperial assets. So we see Stormtroopers and Star Destroyers fighting for the New Republic, TIE Fighters fighting alongside X-Wings, etc. or merging technologies to get the best of both worlds.
I doubt we'd see Stormtroopers proper fighting for the New Republic, but we definitely might see the use of Imperial Equipment.
IIRC from my limited Star Wars knowledge, the X-wing is superior to the TIE fighter in every way. Having both more onboard firepower and the ability to operate without a carrier.
My guess is we'd see the Republic using repainted Star Destroyers and other Imperial vessels, but continuing to the use B, X, and Y-wing fighter craft. Along with possibly some of the higher end TIE weapons. Imperial ships would get reclassified to distance themselves from the negative connotations of the names. Star Destroyer would have negative PR problems.
Just rename them Star Saviours then. It turns out that what I have in mind for my Rebel + Imperial = New Republic idea can be seen in this pic from some Yuuzahn Vong comic:
Spoiler:
Basically, friendlier Stormtrooper armour.
But then that also leads me to think that all this really depends on what angle they're going to go with in terms of the conflict. The New Republic vs Imperial Remnant conflicts seemed pretty indistinguishable from the Rebels vs Empire conflicts, and probably deliberately because then it's easy to distinguish the goodies from the baddies. However, the above example of a half-way between Rebel and Imperial was possible because it was all-new baddies whom they could be contrasted with.
Which also brings up the question, who's going to be fighting these new Star Wars? Are they going to go the Rebels in power vs ousted Imperials route? Or New Republic vs new enemy?
The Kasrkin were just men. It made their actions all the more astonishing. Six white blurs, they fell upon the cultists, lasguns barking at close range. They wasted no shots. One shot, one kill. - Eisenhorn: Malleus
Outside of Dark Empire, Dark Empire II and Empire's End, was this prevalent anywhere else?
Manchu wrote: What's great about the EU is that there are a number of gems for each fan. What sucks about the EU is that, for that same fan, the rest of it doesn't fit. To wit: For me, yuzhan vong or whatever make no sense in SW. Others can't imagine SW without them.
Which is perfectly fine. I mean, there are various SW books that I've hated (Children of the Jedi... oh my God what a slog that was to read). That said it just seems so callous to so casually throw this all away, almost as if the very idea of sorting out and codifying any part of the EU was just shoved in a 'too hard' basket.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/04/26 15:09:59
Outside of Dark Empire, Dark Empire II and Empire's End, was this prevalent anywhere else?
It's not that it was prevalent overall, but for several years in the early 90's (I think that's when it was) it seemed to be the only plot line in the EU. Stuff would happen and bam, there'd be an Emperor Clone, or a failed Emperor Clone, someone claiming to be the Emperor's Son, his Lover or someone pretending to be an Emperor Clone behind it all. The whole thing just became pedantic.
It's just example of a larger EU problem, which is that for every awesome idea in the EU, there's something equally terrible.
Which is perfectly fine. I mean, there are various SW books that I've hated (Children of the Jedi... oh my God what a slog that was to read). That said it just seems so callous to so casually throw this all away, almost as if the very idea of sorting out and codifying any part of the EU was just shoved in a 'too hard' basket.
See I'm a little more optimistic on this point. They've made it clear they're not going to play by the EU's rules and no one should expect them to, but that doesn't mean they're not going to take things that are popular and use them in their own ways. I'm not going to be shocked if we see Coran Horn, Mara Jade, Thrawn, or the Solo children at some point in the new Disney Canon. They might not be what we remembered, but their names alone have a lot of $$ behind them, and deciding to throw out the current EU canon as too difficult or unweildy is different from never touching any of its ideas ever again.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/26 15:17:11
So I'm really not taking this news well, they've basically thrown out 5000 years of Star Wars history (technically more if you count the Dawn of the Jedi series set like 25,000-30,000 BBY) and everything I thought I knew about Star Wars is a lie. This is a big deal for me, it was my childhood, Star Wars was basically all I had for a number of years after my parents made me change schools and I pretty much had no friends and was picked on relentlessly, now thats pretty much all gone. Sure they *might* revisit concepts and such, but it won't be the same. As much as I hated the Yuuzhan Vong and everything after, and as silly as some of the storylines were (especially some of the earlier works), I would sooner take that than a whole reboot of the series....
On the flip side, I suppose this means I'll be able to actually keep pace with the setting now that theres only a handful of 'canon' sources :/
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
On the flip side, I suppose this means I'll be able to actually keep pace with the setting now that theres only a handful of 'canon' sources :/
I think that regardless, this is what makes this a good thing. The EU as we have it now is spread over 30+ years of games, books, comics, films, tv shows, and other materials.
One reason why Lucas probably became so bitter about the EU is that it grew even beyond his ability to keep pace with it. And while we can all praise the Keeper of the Holocron, he too is only human. There have been numerous minor continuity errors under his tenure and that's understandable with something so large.
The fans are now attached to something I don't think anyone can reasonably be expected to keep up with and Disney certainly can't base an entire marketing strategy on appeasing simply Star Wars fans attached to the EU when the wider public has probably never even heard of most of it. This is the only direction they can realistically take.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/26 15:37:56
I disagree, Disney could easily have kept the main existing EU continuity intact (by which I mean the overarching storyline, etc.) and selectively pruned out the weaker elements of the canon. For every Grand Admiral Thrawn there is a Jaxxon, I can understand wanting to eliminate the latter, but the former???
Instead they just wholesale eliminated basically everything, wiping out Shadows of the Empire and the Thrawn series alongside Droids and Ewoks.
I suppose this is probably a better approach, as it allows them to effectively start over in an additive process which is way easier than a subtractive one... but if thats the path they're taking, why not begin by revising and reprinting some of the existing works? There is no reason they can' t make revisions to Shadows or the Thrawn trilogy, etc. to suit their new vision for the series and republish them. In fact, they would effectively be making money by selling us the same product twice, so fiscally it would be a genius move on their part, as well as one that keeps some of the top tier elements of continuity intact.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Apparently this is what Disney considers worthy of 'canon'.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/04/26 17:40:38
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
2014/04/26 18:37:56
Subject: Re:Good News About The New Star Wars Films
It would have been so easy for them to have kept large story arcs (Like Thrawn, Shadows of the Empire, Rogue Squadron, etc) and drop all the weird small stuff. the Yuuzang Vong are a non-entitiy, as they could place their stuff before it happens, and worry about keeping/dropping later.
It's painfully obvious to me which parts of the EU are considered canon to the majority of Star Wars fans, and I have not even read all the most popular stuff.
Most of the most popular story arcs are considered more important to the universe than the prequel trilogy, so that speaks to their quality.
Disney just wants to make it so that anything they put out, regardless of quality, is the "one and only".
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/04/26 18:41:54
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."
2014/04/26 19:07:03
Subject: Re:Good News About The New Star Wars Films
Not really, and even if it was, I know I wouldn't want to come in being beholden to decades worth of side projects with varying levels of sub canon. A cleansing fire to clear the forest and start over is needed sometimes, and this is one of those times. Of course I'm not really one for sacred cows, so I don't mind a little steak. I'm more concerned with them doing the next trilogy well far more than adhering to Timothy Zahn's vision.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Does this mean KOTOR is no longer cannon? Disappointing, I really liked that era. Honestly wish the movies were going to be set then. I'd pay to see the Mando wars or the Sith-Republic conflict.
They just will not be using ANY of the post-jedi stuff for inspiration for the new movies.
So no Luke marries mara jade, hand and leia have precocious jedi, chewbacca mauled by a hungry gundark (or whatever) IN THE MOVIES.
They are STILL going to be published as is whilst people will buy them, under their OWN label of "legends". Think of them as that section of the fluff that is locked away in its own universe.
I'm OVER 50 (and so far over everyone's BS, too).
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.
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LordofHats wrote: It's not that it was prevalent overall, but for several years in the early 90's (I think that's when it was) it seemed to be the only plot line in the EU. Stuff would happen and bam, there'd be an Emperor Clone, or a failed Emperor Clone, someone claiming to be the Emperor's Son, his Lover or someone pretending to be an Emperor Clone behind it all. The whole thing just became pedantic.
I recall a series of books (one of was "The Glove of Darth Vader", IIRC) that dealt with a guy with three eyes claiming that, but those books were declared non-canon years and years ago. So really it was just Dark Empire (and its subsequent sequel and wrap-up comics). Hardly an epidemic, and hardly representative of the EU as a whole. Super-weapons were the thing that was proliferated far too often (although a lot of that comes down to Kevin J. Anderson, who gave us the World Destroyers in Dark Empire, the Galaxy Gun in Dark Empire II, the Eclipse I and Eclipse II in both Dark Empire books, the Sun Crusher in the Jedi Academy series, the prototype Death Star in the same series, the Darksaber in Darksaber, and so on).
LordofHats wrote: It's just example of a larger EU problem, which is that for every awesome idea in the EU, there's something equally terrible.
Something that's not unique to SW either, and certainly not a reason to throw it all away.
LordofHats wrote: See I'm a little more optimistic on this point. They've made it clear they're not going to play by the EU's rules and no one should expect them to, but that doesn't mean they're not going to take things that are popular and use them in their own ways. I'm not going to be shocked if we see Coran Horn, Mara Jade, Thrawn, or the Solo children at some point in the new Disney Canon. They might not be what we remembered, but their names alone have a lot of $$ behind them, and deciding to throw out the current EU canon as too difficult or unweildy is different from never touching any of its ideas ever again.
I guess we'll see, but in the end the point I made originall stands: I think this is a cruel fate for the writers of these works, regardless of their quality or however much you or I like them. I mean look at the last SW novel produced before this announcement. How do you think it feels to write a book that gets (essentially) invalidated faster than any other? I kinda know what that's like, so that's why I sympathise with them.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I guess we'll see, but in the end the point I made originall stands: I think this is a cruel fate for the writers of these works, regardless of their quality or however much you or I like them. I mean look at the last SW novel produced before this announcement. How do you think it feels to write a book that gets (essentially) invalidated faster than any other? I kinda know what that's like, so that's why I sympathise with them.
Why would it feel any different than normal? Lucas' stance on the EU was always, "Anything not done by me isn't really canon, but on the other hand, I fething LOVE licensing money, so, yeah, write away, and we'll give it some 'kinda but not really canon' label."
chromedog wrote: No, the existing canon that was IS STILL THERE.
The video games are as canon as the books: They're both C-canon, which means KotoR and all the Lucas Arts games are out, too.
Being made by a Lucas company didn't give anything more canonicity in the Holocron.
Basically, the only things we know are IN for definite are G and T-canon(movies and Clone Wars show).
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/04/27 13:13:16
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chromedog wrote: No, the existing canon that was IS STILL THERE.
The video games are as canon as the books: They're both C-canon, which means KotoR and all the Lucas Arts games are out, too.
Being made by a Lucas company didn't give anything more canonicity in the Holocron.
Basically, the only things we know are IN for definite are G and T-canon(movies and Clone Wars show).
LoL! I cannot wait for someone to group the various canons into a multicolored graph for my momentary amusement. I sounds like a full 21 gun salute at this point!
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Orkeosaurus wrote:Star Trek also said we'd have X-Wings by now. We all see how that prediction turned out.
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chromedog wrote: No, the existing canon that was IS STILL THERE.
The video games are as canon as the books: They're both C-canon, which means KotoR and all the Lucas Arts games are out, too.
Being made by a Lucas company didn't give anything more canonicity in the Holocron.
Basically, the only things we know are IN for definite are G and T-canon(movies and Clone Wars show).
LoL! I cannot wait for someone to group the various canons into a multicolored graph for my momentary amusement. I sounds like a full 21 gun salute at this point!
That's as good as you're gonna get and as much as anyone outside of Lucasfilm/arts has ever seen of the Holocron. They won't publish it as the Holocron contains upcoming projects as well as everything past.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/04/27 13:55:48
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
2014/04/27 16:32:47
Subject: Re:Good News About The New Star Wars Films
Another thing I'd like to see in Star Wars 7 is the return of a truly under-appreciated (at least by the fans, the EU has been using him loads) staple of Star Wars. Forget Boba Fett - who at the end of the day didn't really do much besides tie Luke up with a toy he kept on his wrist before getting owned. I want to see the guy who survived the attack on the first Death Star, took down an AT-AT on Hoth, and then did half the job of destroying the second Death Star: Wedge Antilles.
The Kasrkin were just men. It made their actions all the more astonishing. Six white blurs, they fell upon the cultists, lasguns barking at close range. They wasted no shots. One shot, one kill. - Eisenhorn: Malleus
Seaward wrote: Why would it feel any different than normal? Lucas' stance on the EU was always, "Anything not done by me isn't really canon, but on the other hand, I fething LOVE licensing money, so, yeah, write away, and we'll give it some 'kinda but not really canon' label."
It wasn't that at all. There was a specific system set up, and there were people who looked after the history of SW (pre- and post-movies). Disney is saying that these are now, basically, an alternate timeline.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/28 06:57:18
The problem I have is that if all the EU is out for Disney, how are they planning on explaining what happened during all those intervening years from Episode 6-7 when doing the setup for this movie? That's a huge time lapse to simply wave away. Just say "nothing of note" happened for several decades, in the crawl before the movie?
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."
2014/04/28 01:22:13
Subject: Re:Good News About The New Star Wars Films
AegisGrimm wrote: The problem I have is that if all the EU is out for Disney, how are they planning on explaining what happened during all those intervening years from Episode 6-7 when doing the setup for this movie? That's a huge time lapse to simply wave away. Just say "nothing of note" happened for several decades, in the crawl before the movie?
They aren't saying nothing happened in that time period, they are just going to come up with their own stories for it instead of using old fan faction with terrible rankings like T-Canon, G-Canon, and C-Canon. Now there will just be canon.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2014/04/28 01:59:22
Subject: Re:Good News About The New Star Wars Films
