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Buttons wrote:

flodihn wrote:

Buttons wrote:

 J3f wrote:


I also came up with a Mark of Chaos Undivided. Mark of Chaos Undivided : Models with the Mark of Chaos Undivided have the Preferred Enemy and Adamantium Will Special Rule.
Chaos Lords with the Mark of Chaos Undivided can take Chosen as troops.

While I like the idea of undivided getting some love Preferred Enemy is too much. Crusader and Adamantium Will is fine, something else that boosts survivability or mobility is fine, but Preferred Enemy is too much and honestly doesn't make any sense. Why would Black Legion or Word Bearers be better at fighting Tau than World Eaters or Emperor's Children?

Maybe a chaos lord/sorcerer could choose an alignment or legion, if they are aligned with Tnzeetch, Slaanesh, Nurgle, or Khorne they get their respective cult troops, if they are undivided they can take chosen, possessed, or raptors as troops (representing Black Legion, Word Bearers, and Night Lords respectively), only choosing one of the three as troops.

If you look what the fluff what chaos undivided really do is to rally all chaos troops under the same banner, normally the chaos gods constantly fight each other, also leading to chaos troops always consider each other rivals, sometimes even leading to full scale wars.

Perhaps the chaos undivided mark on a lord could make units from different gods work better together. That would fit the fluff and lead to some interesting tactics. Imagine 5 khorne berzerkers and 5 plague marines in one squad?

While I think mixing units shouldn't be done, better synergy between units would be nice. Perhaps give unaligned the ability to take up to one of each cult unit as troops. So an unaligned Chaos Lord could take a unit of Khorne berserkers, a unit of noise marines, a unit of 1k sons, and a unit of plague marines (however he cannot have say two units of noise marines both being troops), all of them troops to represent how they can unite the various gods for specific purposes. That way an unaligned force could say bring Noise Marines to sit behind an Aegis Line in order to provide mid range firepower, while Khorne Berserkers could be used as assault troops alongside Plague Marines, with the Bersekers moving beyond the midfield objective while the Plague Marines sit on the midfield objective.

How about this then Mark of Chaos Undivided : Models with the Mark of Chaos Undivided have the Adamantium Will Special Rule and reroll to Wound rolls of 1.
Chaos Lords with the Mark of Chaos Undivided can take Chosen as troops.

I don't like the shenanigans you could get into with taking up to 4 different elites as troops. It's 1 elite as troops per HQ for everyone else.

 Formosa wrote:
Ok thanks for the criticism I will address each point as made


Ws8: heresy kharn is ws7, 10k years of near constant warfare I feel would improve this, when mechanically it makes little difference it is more of a fluff change.
The 're-roll only works on the charge (hatred) or when being charged, this means current kharn has very little chance of actually hitting his own models, not very befitting the betrayer.

If we give Kharn ws8 then Lucius should also get it.

Bs3: this is to represent not lack of skill but lack of coherent thought, kharn wants to take heads for the blood God, not shoot things to death, bs3 has also in the past been used to represent psychos that are too far gone to aim properly.

I get where you're coming frrom. While I'd rather have him keep bs5 if I were playing him bs3 is much fluffier.

Chosen of the blood God: kharn has most of these rules, no eternal warrior, the eternal warrior is added to represent his being in the middle of some of the worst fighting the galaxy has ever seen and even when mortally wounded... Surviving to fight again, kharn and lucius deserve eternal warrior more than lysanander or Calgar.

Yes. Hatred should be given to him as a warlord trait only. He's Khorne's chosen berzerker!

Whirlwind of Gore: yes I am going with the 100% correct assumption that kharn is a frothing lunatic, but only when in the swirl of combat, note this is kharn, he is not a world eater, he WAS a world eater and as he said himself he cares nothing for the legion anymore, I'm not proposing world eaters are frothing lunatics I'm outright stating that when in combat kharn is.

I don't quite understand this one.

Vulnerable to psychic powers: he has the collar of khorne still.

2+, 4++, 6+ fnp: 2+ is the to tie into the articifer armour he has that has been corrupted by chaos, 4++ is to bring in line chaos hq invulnerables with loyalist ones, named character need at least 4++ if a combat character. The 6+ fnp is a tie into to pre heresy world eaters that have gone so far down the line of madness they can shrug off wounds.

I agree with this.

Once again in combat kharn is a frothing lunatic, I don't have to tell you anything gw is telling you, my version of kharn will not chase tanks around the table ad infinitum as he doesn't have 3rds blood rage rules, the collar of khorne is old wargear he had and made him immune to psy powers, now it's a 2++ and got a name change.

Deamon armour is what he has, as someone who claims to ve familiar with 3.5 you should know thats a 2+ save, this is to tie into his pre heresy gear, and deamon armour doesn't need maintenance.
He doesn't have an iron halo either, it's the aura of darkness that gives the 4++ I just got the name wrong, and again it's added as a tie in to his pre heresy gear and is needed on a combat character.

The whirlwind of Gore is quite simple, he enters combat and steadily loses control (hence ld test) and starts to kill friend and foe alike, if failed he hits everything in base contact, this represents how kharn is in the 40k universe and it seems you believe for some reason that despite all the fluff he is in total control of himself while he goes around butchering people, pre heresy while the nails took hold he was a insane killing machine and he had MORE control back then.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 marrowick wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Ok thanks for the criticism I will address each point as made


Ws8: heresy kharn is ws7, 10k years of near constant warfare I feel would improve this, when mechanically it makes little difference it is more of a fluff change.
The 're-roll only works on the charge (hatred) or when being charged, this means current kharn has very little chance of actually hitting his own models, not very befitting the betrayer.

If we give Kharn ws8 then Lucius should also get it.

Bs3: this is to represent not lack of skill but lack of coherent thought, kharn wants to take heads for the blood God, not shoot things to death, bs3 has also in the past been used to represent psychos that are too far gone to aim properly.

I get where you're coming frrom. While I'd rather have him keep bs5 if I were playing him bs3 is much fluffier.

Chosen of the blood God: kharn has most of these rules, no eternal warrior, the eternal warrior is added to represent his being in the middle of some of the worst fighting the galaxy has ever seen and even when mortally wounded... Surviving to fight again, kharn and lucius deserve eternal warrior more than lysanander or Calgar.

Yes. Hatred should be given to him as a warlord trait only. He's Khorne's chosen berzerker!

Whirlwind of Gore: yes I am going with the 100% correct assumption that kharn is a frothing lunatic, but only when in the swirl of combat, note this is kharn, he is not a world eater, he WAS a world eater and as he said himself he cares nothing for the legion anymore, I'm not proposing world eaters are frothing lunatics I'm outright stating that when in combat kharn is.

I don't quite understand this one.

Vulnerable to psychic powers: he has the collar of khorne still.

2+, 4++, 6+ fnp: 2+ is the to tie into the articifer armour he has that has been corrupted by chaos, 4++ is to bring in line chaos hq invulnerables with loyalist ones, named character need at least 4++ if a combat character. The 6+ fnp is a tie into to pre heresy world eaters that have gone so far down the line of madness they can shrug off wounds.

I agree with this.

I agree lucius should be ws8 too

If hatred is his warlord trait that's fine by me, he definitely should have it though.

And yeah the bs3 was a fluff thing, dudes got a master crafted plasma pistol so it won't make a whole lot of difference

Um. When did I give any indication that I was familiar with 3.5? As to the comment about chasing tanks I don't know how other people play him but I use him to go after the stronger people like Meganobs and Terminators.

 Formosa wrote:
Once again in combat kharn is a frothing lunatic, I don't have to tell you anything gw is telling you, my version of kharn will not chase tanks around the table ad infinitum as he doesn't have 3rds blood rage rules, the collar of khorne is old wargear he had and made him immune to psy powers, now it's a 2++ and got a name change.

Deamon armour is what he has, as someone who claims to ve familiar with 3.5 you should know thats a 2+ save, this is to tie into his pre heresy gear, and deamon armour doesn't need maintenance.
He doesn't have an iron halo either, it's the aura of darkness that gives the 4++ I just got the name wrong, and again it's added as a tie in to his pre heresy gear and is needed on a combat character.

The whirlwind of Gore is quite simple, he enters combat and steadily loses control (hence ld test) and starts to kill friend and foe alike, if failed he hits everything in base contact, this represents how kharn is in the 40k universe and it seems you believe for some reason that despite all the fluff he is in total control of himself while he goes around butchering people, pre heresy while the nails took hold he was a insane killing machine and he had MORE control back then.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 marrowick wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Ok thanks for the criticism I will address each point as made


Ws8: heresy kharn is ws7, 10k years of near constant warfare I feel would improve this, when mechanically it makes little difference it is more of a fluff change.
The 're-roll only works on the charge (hatred) or when being charged, this means current kharn has very little chance of actually hitting his own models, not very befitting the betrayer.

If we give Kharn ws8 then Lucius should also get it.

Bs3: this is to represent not lack of skill but lack of coherent thought, kharn wants to take heads for the blood God, not shoot things to death, bs3 has also in the past been used to represent psychos that are too far gone to aim properly.

I get where you're coming frrom. While I'd rather have him keep bs5 if I were playing him bs3 is much fluffier.

Chosen of the blood God: kharn has most of these rules, no eternal warrior, the eternal warrior is added to represent his being in the middle of some of the worst fighting the galaxy has ever seen and even when mortally wounded... Surviving to fight again, kharn and lucius deserve eternal warrior more than lysanander or Calgar.

Yes. Hatred should be given to him as a warlord trait only. He's Khorne's chosen berzerker!

Whirlwind of Gore: yes I am going with the 100% correct assumption that kharn is a frothing lunatic, but only when in the swirl of combat, note this is kharn, he is not a world eater, he WAS a world eater and as he said himself he cares nothing for the legion anymore, I'm not proposing world eaters are frothing lunatics I'm outright stating that when in combat kharn is.

I don't quite understand this one.

Vulnerable to psychic powers: he has the collar of khorne still.

2+, 4++, 6+ fnp: 2+ is the to tie into the articifer armour he has that has been corrupted by chaos, 4++ is to bring in line chaos hq invulnerables with loyalist ones, named character need at least 4++ if a combat character. The 6+ fnp is a tie into to pre heresy world eaters that have gone so far down the line of madness they can shrug off wounds.

I agree with this.

I agree lucius should be ws8 too

If hatred is his warlord trait that's fine by me, he definitely should have it though.

And yeah the bs3 was a fluff thing, dudes got a master crafted plasma pistol so it won't make a whole lot of difference

Didn't mean you marro sorry mate

Basically in 3rd bezerkers had the rage/blood rage rule that meant they had to move towards and assault the closest enemy unit, this meant it was possible to kite a unit with either something they couldn't hurt or something fast enough to be close enough to move towards but fast enough to get away (skimmers needing a 6 to hit in cc back then), so what we're discussing is that op seems to think that I'm trying to bring that crazy rule back, it's quite the opposite infact, I'm trying to portray that they (or specifically kharn) are even more berserk than say the blood angels or space wolves.

In particular to khorne and tzeench, gw has never done even remotely a good job at portraying them in the game.

Btw I like you idea for undecided chaos (I know its undevided), it actually makes it a decent alternative to a mark.

Idea for renegade bezerkers.
Unit 5-10
Pts 13 per model
space marine bezerkers of khorne
Ws4
Bs4
S4
T4
I4
A2
Ld8
Sv3+
Veteran has ws5, access to close combat weapon list.
Wargear: bolt pistol, close combat weapon, frag and krak grenades.

Options.
May take Mark of khorne for 2pts per model.
Up to 2 models may be equipped with one of the following.
Power weapon 15pts per model
Plasma pistol 15pts per model
Power fist 25pts per model
Or up to 2 models may take the following
Flamer 5pts per model
Plasmagun 15pts per model
Meltagun 10pts per model.
The entire squad may upgrade to take chainaxes for 1pt per model.
The entire unit may upgrade to take jump packs for 5pts per model.

This is how I see an assault sqaud no longer tied to the codex astartes, but not necessarily dedicated wholly to khorne yet, so they have larger access to the armoury and a wider array of weapons available to them, but they are not as proficient in combat as khorne bezerkers (whom I will be making a suggestion for next). Kinda half way chaos marine and space marine codex.

 J3f wrote:

Buttons wrote:

flodihn wrote:

Buttons wrote:

 J3f wrote:


I also came up with a Mark of Chaos Undivided. Mark of Chaos Undivided : Models with the Mark of Chaos Undivided have the Preferred Enemy and Adamantium Will Special Rule.
Chaos Lords with the Mark of Chaos Undivided can take Chosen as troops.

While I like the idea of undivided getting some love Preferred Enemy is too much. Crusader and Adamantium Will is fine, something else that boosts survivability or mobility is fine, but Preferred Enemy is too much and honestly doesn't make any sense. Why would Black Legion or Word Bearers be better at fighting Tau than World Eaters or Emperor's Children?

Maybe a chaos lord/sorcerer could choose an alignment or legion, if they are aligned with Tnzeetch, Slaanesh, Nurgle, or Khorne they get their respective cult troops, if they are undivided they can take chosen, possessed, or raptors as troops (representing Black Legion, Word Bearers, and Night Lords respectively), only choosing one of the three as troops.

If you look what the fluff what chaos undivided really do is to rally all chaos troops under the same banner, normally the chaos gods constantly fight each other, also leading to chaos troops always consider each other rivals, sometimes even leading to full scale wars.

Perhaps the chaos undivided mark on a lord could make units from different gods work better together. That would fit the fluff and lead to some interesting tactics. Imagine 5 khorne berzerkers and 5 plague marines in one squad?

While I think mixing units shouldn't be done, better synergy between units would be nice. Perhaps give unaligned the ability to take up to one of each cult unit as troops. So an unaligned Chaos Lord could take a unit of Khorne berserkers, a unit of noise marines, a unit of 1k sons, and a unit of plague marines (however he cannot have say two units of noise marines both being troops), all of them troops to represent how they can unite the various gods for specific purposes. That way an unaligned force could say bring Noise Marines to sit behind an Aegis Line in order to provide mid range firepower, while Khorne Berserkers could be used as assault troops alongside Plague Marines, with the Bersekers moving beyond the midfield objective while the Plague Marines sit on the midfield objective.

How about this then Mark of Chaos Undivided : Models with the Mark of Chaos Undivided have the Adamantium Will Special Rule and reroll to Wound rolls of 1.
Chaos Lords with the Mark of Chaos Undivided can take Chosen as troops.

I don't like the shenanigans you could get into with taking up to 4 different elites as troops. It's 1 elite as troops per HQ for everyone else.

Taken chosen as troops isn't accurate at all when it comes to playing the unaligned legions. I don't think the Black Legion is even known for being particularly elite or well equipped, but even if it is it hardly fits the other unaligned legions like the Word Bearers or Night Lords or Iron Warriors. Honestly if you wanna give unaligned a single troop choice you might as well ditch marks for legion alignment (minor warbands can take a legion alignment of whichever legion is most similar just like space marine chapter tactics).
Emperor's Children Chaos Lord: Noise Marines
World Eaters Chaos Lord: Berserkers
Thousand Sons Sorcerer: Thousand Sons
Death Guard Chaos Lord: Plague Marines
Black Legion Chaos Lord: Terminators, cannot take marks of Slaanesh, Khorne, Nurgle, or Tzeentch
Word Bearers: Possessed, cannot take marks of Slaanesh, Khorne, Nurgle, or Tzeentch
Night Lords: Raptors, cannot take marks of Slaanesh, Khorne, Nurgle, or Tzeentch
Iron Warriors: Havocs (?), cannot take marks of Slaanesh, Khorne, Nurgle, or Tzeentch
Alpha Legion: Chosen, cannot take marks of Slaanesh, Khorne, Nurgle, or Tzeentch

Each Legion can get a special rule (they take a mark in addition to their special rule) or could just be counted as a mark of a god. In the former case it could be something like
Emperor's Children: Preferred Enemy in Challenges (their focus on swordsmanship and dueling)
World Eaters: Counter-Attack
Thousand Sons: Adamantium Will (being sorcerers and all they are better at resisting psychic powers)
Death Guard: ???
Black Legion: Crusader (being the spearhead of the black crusades and all
Word Bearers: Fear
Night Lords: Hit and Run
Iron Warriors: Stubborn
Alpha Legion: Infiltrate

So Alpha Legion can infiltrate Chosen, Emperor's Children can go around trying to hunt down champions, Night Lords can hop out of an assault if they need to, etc.

Chaos Legions is exactly what I want to avoid. I don't see what's wrong with Chosen as troops for Chaos Undivided. A force lead by a Chaos Lord leads the elites of the Chaos Gods. Noise Marines are just as elite as Chosen and even cost more.

Also, I gave Chaos Space Marines Stubborn by default. It's not shown in the quotes but it is in my original post.

I will say I do NOT feel valid in making Marks associated to Legion Organizations. I very firmly feel that these should be 2 distinctly separate concepts. If you want to run a Army of Black Legion what has a heavy Tzeentch leaning, I see no reason to not make that viable, likewise if you want to run a Biker Heavy Khorne army that such an army should be automatically tied to the World eaters.

On that note, did some work on a couple things last night (These are for the Chaos Renegades Codex):

Daemon Weapon: The most powerful of all weapons used by Chaos Champions have Daemons bound into them, imprisoned by the complex rites of the Soul Forges. Each weapon is a unique artefact, named for the warp-entity trapped within it. Some of these bear only a flicker of sentience, but some rage so powerfully against their fate that their wielder becomes a slave, and the blade the master.

During each fight sub-phase, at your characters initiative step during which the bearer of a Daemon Weapon is locked in combat, roll a D6.on a Roll of a 1, the model immediately suffers a wound with no armour
saves allowed and his Weapon Skill is 1 until the end of the Phase. On a roll of 2+, the Bearer gains that many additional attacks until the end of the phase. If the Bearer has multiple weapons, only roll a D6 is he
chooses to attack with a Daemon Weapon.

Champion of Chaos:It is not unusual for the Chaos powers to bestow strange boons and mutations upon those will kill in their name. Not all of these boons are beneficial - the Dark ones are as fickle as they are inscrutable, and even their most ardent followers are little more then pawns in a celestial game.

When a model with the Champion of Chaos Special rule kills an enemy Character in a Challange you must check to see if the Dark Gods reward him. To do this, roll a D66 on the Chaos Boon table opposite - by this we mean roll two D6, ome being designated as the ‘tens’ and the second being designated as the ‘ones’. Then refer to the table opposite to see what boon (if any) your champion has gained. So, if you roll a 3 on the tens, and a 5 on the ones, you would get a D66 result of 35 - your champion would now benefit from the Mechanoid Chaos Boon. This boon lasts for the rest of the game; make a note of it on your army roster next to the character’s entry. If a boon is rolled that the characrer already has, the roll has no effect. If an enemy Character dies as a result of multiple Wounds being allocated to it simultaneously, and one or more of those wounds were caused by te Champion, that champion still rolls on the Chaos Boon table. Not that destroying models in a sweeping advance does not confer a roll on the Chaos Boon Table. Each time a model with this special rule declines a challange, any further rolls on the Chaos Boon table it makes are done so with a -2 modifier to the D66 result. This is cumilitive, so a model that declines 3 challanges will be making rolls with a -6 modifier.

Chaos Marks (Yes, I'm sure all of you have been wanting to see these)

Mark of Khorne: Infantry, and Jump Infantry Models gain the Rage special rule.
Bike and Calvery Models conduct Hammer of Wrath attacks at +1 Strength.
Tank Models Impose a -1 to leadership checks for Death or Glory.
Walker type models gain Hammer of Wrath
Flyer models gain the Strafing Run special rule.

Mark of Nurgle: Infantry, and Jump Infantry Models have +1 toughness.
Bike Models Have the shrouded special rule.
Vehicle models automatically inflict a S5 AP- hit on all non-vehicle, and not marked by Nurgle, models within 3” of the model at the begining of the shooting phase.
Psykers with Mark of Nurgle must generate at least one of their powers from the Discipline of Nurgle.

Mark of Slaanesh: Infantry, and Jump infanty models have +1 initiative
Bike and flyer type models gain a +1 to their jink save
Vehicles:..... (I got nothing just now. Any suggestions?)
Psykers with Mark of Slaanesh must generate at least one of their powers from the Discipline of Slaanesh.

Mark of Tzeentch: Infantry, and Jump Infantry Models with the Mark of Tzeentch gain a +1 modifier to their Invulnerable save if they have one (to a maximum of 3+), or a 6+ invulnerable if they do not already have an invulnerable save.
Bike Models change their type to Jetbike
Tank and Vehicle models force re-rolls of successful hits that generate a penetration.
Psykers with the Mark of Tzeentch must generate at least one of their powers from the Discipline of Tzeentch.

Mark of Chaos Undivided: Infantry, Jump Infantry, and Bikes Models may choose to fail any leadership check they are called on to make.
Vehicle models that suffer a ‘Weapon Destroyed” result may choose which weapon is destroyed, OR sacrifice an additional Hull point in place of the weapon destroyed result.

 J3f wrote:
Chaos Legions is exactly what I want to avoid. I don't see what's wrong with Chosen as troops for Chaos Undivided. A force lead by a Chaos Lord leads the elites of the Chaos Gods. Noise Marines are just as elite as Chosen and even cost more.

Noise marines are hardly elites, simply marines with some additional biological modifications and equipment. They still only get 1 attack base like regular space marines, they aren't any better at shooting or in close combat. Honestly I don't see the problem with legion rules, it allows you to customize your army a little more, which is always nice.

Buttons wrote:

 J3f wrote:
Chaos Legions is exactly what I want to avoid. I don't see what's wrong with Chosen as troops for Chaos Undivided. A force lead by a Chaos Lord leads the elites of the Chaos Gods. Noise Marines are just as elite as Chosen and even cost more.

Noise marines are hardly elites, simply marines with some additional biological modifications and equipment. They still only get 1 attack base like regular space marines, they aren't any better at shooting or in close combat. Honestly I don't see the problem with legion rules, it allows you to customize your army a little more, which is always nice.

The problem with legion rules is that it makes Chaos lose it's uniqueness. If you want Chapter legion tactics play space marines with or without Horus Heresy Lists. The other problem is Chaos Space Marines aren't limited to 1 mark or potentially 1 legion, their would be a lot of imbalances waiting to be exploited.

I would like to see more special characters of Chaos Undivided, like a Night Lords special Character that unlocks raptors as troops.

 J3f wrote:

Buttons wrote:

 J3f wrote:
Chaos Legions is exactly what I want to avoid. I don't see what's wrong with Chosen as troops for Chaos Undivided. A force lead by a Chaos Lord leads the elites of the Chaos Gods. Noise Marines are just as elite as Chosen and even cost more.

Noise marines are hardly elites, simply marines with some additional biological modifications and equipment. They still only get 1 attack base like regular space marines, they aren't any better at shooting or in close combat. Honestly I don't see the problem with legion rules, it allows you to customize your army a little more, which is always nice.

The problem with legion rules is that it makes Chaos lose it's uniqueness. If you want Chapter legion tactics play space marines with or without Horus Heresy Lists. The other problem is Chaos Space Marines aren't limited to 1 mark or potentially 1 legion, their would be a lot of imbalances waiting to be exploited.

I would like to see more special characters of Chaos Undivided, like a Night Lords special Character that unlocks raptors as troops.

so... has no one bothered to even look at the website I set up?

I'm just asking because it seems like no one has looked under Chaos Legions on that webpage and seen the items listed under the HQ section.

Maverike_prime wrote:

 J3f wrote:

Buttons wrote:

 J3f wrote:
Chaos Legions is exactly what I want to avoid. I don't see what's wrong with Chosen as troops for Chaos Undivided. A force lead by a Chaos Lord leads the elites of the Chaos Gods. Noise Marines are just as elite as Chosen and even cost more.

Noise marines are hardly elites, simply marines with some additional biological modifications and equipment. They still only get 1 attack base like regular space marines, they aren't any better at shooting or in close combat. Honestly I don't see the problem with legion rules, it allows you to customize your army a little more, which is always nice.

The problem with legion rules is that it makes Chaos lose it's uniqueness. If you want Chapter legion tactics play space marines with or without Horus Heresy Lists. The other problem is Chaos Space Marines aren't limited to 1 mark or potentially 1 legion, their would be a lot of imbalances waiting to be exploited.

I would like to see more special characters of Chaos Undivided, like a Night Lords special Character that unlocks raptors as troops.

so... has no one bothered to even look at the website I set up?

I'm just asking because it seems like no one has looked under Chaos Legions on that webpage and seen the items listed under the HQ section.

There isn't much to see there, no links or rules. You have an HQ for ever Chaos Legion, which I think is overkill. What I want is named special characters for Chaos Undivided like an Iron Warriors special character that has Orbital Bombardment and unlocks Obliterators as troops.

 J3f wrote:

Maverike_prime wrote:

 J3f wrote:

Buttons wrote:

 J3f wrote:
Chaos Legions is exactly what I want to avoid. I don't see what's wrong with Chosen as troops for Chaos Undivided. A force lead by a Chaos Lord leads the elites of the Chaos Gods. Noise Marines are just as elite as Chosen and even cost more.

Noise marines are hardly elites, simply marines with some additional biological modifications and equipment. They still only get 1 attack base like regular space marines, they aren't any better at shooting or in close combat. Honestly I don't see the problem with legion rules, it allows you to customize your army a little more, which is always nice.

The problem with legion rules is that it makes Chaos lose it's uniqueness. If you want Chapter legion tactics play space marines with or without Horus Heresy Lists. The other problem is Chaos Space Marines aren't limited to 1 mark or potentially 1 legion, their would be a lot of imbalances waiting to be exploited.

I would like to see more special characters of Chaos Undivided, like a Night Lords special Character that unlocks raptors as troops.

so... has no one bothered to even look at the website I set up?

I'm just asking because it seems like no one has looked under Chaos Legions on that webpage and seen the items listed under the HQ section.

There isn't much to see there, no links or rules. You have an HQ for ever Chaos Legion, which I think is overkill. What I want is named special characters for Chaos Undivided like an Iron Warriors special character that has Orbital Bombardment and unlocks Obliterators as troops.

Yeah, there isn't a lot more info under Chaos Legions because I'm still working on Chaos Renegades. But let's play a game of extrapolation: Why do you think I've listed place holders for each of the Legions?

For Slaneesh vehicles how about even if they move 12" they can still fire one weapon at full ballistic skill?

Pimpwagons.

Any model within 6" of a Slaanesh vehicle (even a Necron, Tyranid or female!) is beset by lustful Daemonettes and must immediately take a Pinning Test.

 I_am_a_Spoon wrote:
Pimpwagons.

Any model within 6" of a Slaanesh vehicle (even a Necron, Tyranid or female!) is beset by lustful Daemonettes and must immediately take a Pinning Test.

I like the direction you're headed in, but please find a better way to write that out. I've read a lot of Fan-dexes that use terminology like (and actually worse then that) and I'll be honest, it just totally kills any level of professionalism the project could have ever had to it's credit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 marrowick wrote:
For Slaneesh vehicles how about even if they move 12" they can still fire one weapon at full ballistic skill?

*grumble* this sounds right but it's setting off a red flag in the back of my mind that I can't quit pin down.

Maybe something a little simpler then.

Mark of slaanesh:
Depending on unit type the mark of slaanesh gives one of the following bonus's.
Tank: the vehicle can fire one additional weapon at full bs when moving at combat speed or cruising speed, all other weapons fire as normal (snap shots etc.).
Walker: the walker gains the fleet usr and +1 initiative.

Nurgle: depending on the unit type the Mark of nurgle grants one of the following bonus's.
Tank: stealth and defensive grenades.
Walker: stealth and both offensive and defensive grenades.

Tzeench: depending on unit type the mark of tzeench grants one of the following bonus's.
Tank: 6+ invulnerable save and -1 to the ap of all bolt weapons.
Walker: 6+ Invulnerable save and -1 to the ap of all bolt weapons.

Khorne: depending on unit type the mark of khorne grants one of the following bonus's.
Tank: any unit tank shocked by a tank with the mark of khorne takes d6 str5 ap- hits distributed as shooting, in addition to any other tank shock effects.
Walker: any Walker with the mark of khorne gains the rage and hatred usr's.

Chaos undevided: depending on the unit type the mark of chaos undevided grants the following bonus.
Tank: any enemy unit within 6" of the hull is at -1 ld for morale and pinning tests.
Walker: the walker causes Fear at a -1 ld penalty to enemy units, if the walker did not already possess the fear usr it gains it and applies the above modifier.

 Formosa wrote:
Maybe something a little simpler then.
Tzeench: depending on unit type the mark of tzeench grants one of the following bonus's.
Walker: 6+ Invulnerable save and -1 to the ap of all bolt weapons.

I had originally gone with the Mark of Tzeentch giving an Inv save to walkers, but when I started working on the HelBrute I realized I was going to be making either the mark, or some upgrades to the Helbrute I was making redundant, which is one of the core problems with the current Codex Chaos Space marines, pointless redundancy. Look at Possessed.
Designers: Here's an upgrade makes your shooting attacks better.
Possessed: Um... so we're getting guns so we actually have a shooting attack?
Designers: What? Why do you need guns?
Possessed: Um... well I guess maybe we don't actually 'need' guns, but you said these will make our shooting attack better. We don't have any shooting attacks, so I just assumed that since you were giving us an option to make our shooting attacks better that you know... you'd give us guns or something so we actually have shooting attacks.
Designer: What are you talking about? Just do the same thing the Chaos Space marine squads do with it. jeez do I have to do everything!
Possessed: Well... they have guns...so that upgrades makes their shooting attacks better.
Designer: and now your shooting attacks will be better. Seriously why is this such a hard concept?
Possessed: Yeah... but we don't have shooting attacks.
Designer: LOOK! Your shots will now have soul blaze meaning you'll do extra damage to the target you're shooting at. Now go deal with it. I have to go Make the Multilators super-bad asses on the charge! *Walks down the hall way*
Possessed: but... our shooting attacks.... don't exist... this won't help anything.... um hello? Excuse me? can we talk about this? Hello? Is anyone there?

Anyway, gimme a little bit to link up the 2 page spreads I've made.

Okay, so I've made a bunch of the 2-page spreads. Hopefully this will help illustrate the directions I feel should be taken with the Chaos: Renegades Codex, and give some hints to what I have in mind for Chaos Legions and Books of Chaos. So yeah, click on the thumbnail images to view larger sized images with readable text!
(and I noticed after I posted the links I realized some of them were actually unreadable. So full 300 PPI resolution version linked below thumbnails)


Abaddon the Despoiler

Typhus, Herald of Nurgle

Huron Blackheart

Chaos Lord

Warp Smith

Chaos Chosen

[url=http://mgc-projects.com/projects/chaos_codes/thousand_sons.png]Thousand Sons

Helbrute

Chaos Bikers Squad

Warp Talons

Armory page 1 and 2. Covers Champions of Chaos and warlord traits.

Armour page 3 and 4, Covers marks and melee weapons
With the Chaos marks, the bright green text is there as a reminder that.... yes the rule is there on the page, but I'm not totally set on it. I may very well change it.

The Warp Smith is listed twice. I'm glad that you're giving us Servitors now. I've always voted for any kind of Chaos Servitor.

 marrowick wrote:
The Warp Smith is listed twice. I'm glad that you're giving us Servitors now. I've always voted for any kind of Chaos Servitor.

Huh... so it was. Amusing since I had a lot of issues getting that image to link up properly. *shrugs* whatever, fixed now. Thanks for the catch.

And I forgot to link the Warp Talons. Fixed that now.

Also, look at what you can do with the Servitors.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For Chaos Renegades:
So working on the Armory some more. Looking at it I'd like to open it up more for character purchases. So here's my thoughts.

Inferno Bolts may be purchased by characters with mark of Tzeentch
Blight Grenades may be purchased by Characters with Mark of Nurgle.

So now there's Slaanesh and Khorne.
What to do about them? Any thoughts from anyone?


And an Idea for Chaos legions:
an upgrade for Land Raiders:

Firey Deployment 50 pts
A tactic that was originally pioneered by the Blood Angels, during the Great Crusade, was to utilize Thunderhawk Transporters in conjunction with Land Raiders to bring the tank in to a forward position and then drop the tank in the midst of the battle. The tactic was later adopted by other Legions but largely abandoned with time though there are still those that remember the tactic and have advanced it. The Tactic is incredibly dangerous, even the robust constuction of a Land Raider is not impervious to damage, but the possibility of bringing the fire power of a Land Raider to bear in such a rapid fashion can turn the tide of battle if used appropriately. More recent revisions of the tactics call for a pin point fire bombing attack on the location that is intended to receive the Land Raider sowing confusion and fire across the area that suddenly finds itself facing down the fire power of a Land Raider.

This is an upgrade that can be purchased for a Chaos Land Raider. It grants the Land Raider the ability to perform a special kind of Deep Strike deployment as outlined below.
Select a location for the Land Raider to deep Strike as normal, including scatter, but before the Land Raider is placed conduct a single attack from a weapon with S5 AP- Heavy 3, Large Blast, ignores Cover on the same space. Once the attack is complete place the Land Raider on the selected spot. It suffers a single S8 AP- hit in the process.

Mark of khorne gives hammer of wrath to dreads, don't walkers already have this rule

 Formosa wrote:
Mark of khorne gives hammer of wrath to dreads, don't walkers already have this rule

No. they don't.

 marrowick wrote:
For Slaneesh vehicles how about even if they move 12" they can still fire one weapon at full ballistic skill?

36 inch threat range vindicators anyone? Bad move sorry

Here is the red flag maverick

 Blackskull wrote:

 marrowick wrote:
For Slaneesh vehicles how about even if they move 12" they can still fire one weapon at full ballistic skill?

36 inch threat range vindicators anyone? Bad move sorry

Here is the red flag maverick

Yeah, like I saying that suggestion was irking me somehow and yeah, that would be a big issue.

So price it at the same cost as blood Angel vindicators, 36" threat range right there and it isn't even remotely broken.

 Formosa wrote:
So price it at the same cost as blood Angel vindicators, 36" threat range right there and it isn't even remotely broken.

um.... no. Blood Angel Vindicators do NOT have a 36" threat range. Blood Angel Vindicators do not get to move 12" and then fire at normal BS. They can move 6" and then fire, or they move flat out for 18" and not fire.

Blood Angel vindicators are fast vehicles are they not?

I know the rhinos, preds and razors are but are you sure the vindicator isn't?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just checked yes it's a fast vehicle, so 12" move and shoot and a 36" threat range

 Formosa wrote:
Blood Angel vindicators are fast vehicles are they not?

I know the rhinos, preds and razors are but are you sure the vindicator isn't?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just checked yes it's a fast vehicle, so 12" move and shoot and a 36" threat range

Check the rule book. Fast vehicle are treated like normal except that they may move 12" when moving flat out.

Move 12" and can fire 1 non ordnance weapon at full BS?

 King Pariah wrote:
Move 12" and can fire 1 non ordnance weapon at full BS?

Honestly, the more I think it over, the less I like the idea of giving extra movement for Slaanesh. Slaanesh is all about sensations and sensoriums and feeling all the pervy stuff in ways I don't even want to consider. They move further?.... that just sounds more like a "I want it so I'll be better" kind of thing.