gorgon wrote:
I have to say that my Tyranids would really like a lot of those rumored changes.

 Idolator wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Idolator wrote:


What!?! They wouldn't have to admit anything. They just tell you that they made X amount of money within a six month period without having to tell you that they made it all in the last few days. Companies do this all the time. Blow out sales at the end of a quarter to boost the numbers without ever having to mention that it was just the blowout sale that saved their bottom line.

I'm pretty sure there are some issues regarding falsely representing how "healthy" the company is by doing that actually. If they don't report it I'm pretty sure they can get slammed legally for it, at least in the long run since it can be considered misleading investors.

There's no falsity there. The company has to report its revenue both to the government and it's investors. In the agreed upon and legal manner. Is it shady....sure. Is it legal....sure.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Idolator wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Idolator wrote:


What!?! They wouldn't have to admit anything. They just tell you that they made X amount of money within a six month period without having to tell you that they made it all in the last few days. Companies do this all the time. Blow out sales at the end of a quarter to boost the numbers without ever having to mention that it was just the blowout sale that saved their bottom line.

I'm pretty sure there are some issues regarding falsely representing how "healthy" the company is by doing that actually. If they don't report it I'm pretty sure they can get slammed legally for it, at least in the long run since it can be considered misleading investors.

There's no falsity there. The company has to report its revenue both to the government and it's investors. In the agreed upon and legal manner. Is it shady....sure. Is it legal....sure.

The reports require more than just a break down of the numbers. They actually force transparency on a number of things to allow investors to get a much better understanding what's going on behind closed doors (that's why the thing is 60+ pages long and has explanations on every item in it).

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
None of this sounds at all appealing. I think this is a case of "Fool me once, shame on you...".

You can't fool me twice.

 Vector Strike wrote:
I'll add some comments inside the text ( >> )

tag8833 wrote:
There was a detail leak a while back:
http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?43705-GIANT-40k-WFB-Rumordump-WARNING-NaCl-ALERT!!!

I've tried to distilled the 40k specific rules from that giant chat log:

Spoiler:

Movement:
Run: D6 or 2D6 for Flying Monstrous Creatures that are Swooping.
>>Makes sense... but no added bonus to Jump/Jet Pack units?
Consolidations: 2D6 pick one, but you only consolidate on your turn. You can charge with your consolidation move. Opponent can overwatch. You only get to fight once per turn, so if you consolidate into a new combat you don’t get to fight, unless your fist combat didn’t fight (opponent flees).
>>This is cool. Adds the idea of 'momentum' to melee troops. Will nearby 6" Tau units be able to overwatch again, if they did use Suppressing Fire in the previous charge?
Retreats: 6 + D6
Charge: 2D6, not affected by difficult terrain.
Move through Difficult: 2D6 pick one.
Charge through Difficult: 2D6 (The same, but -2 iniative).
>>This helps melee units without assault grenades (Howling Banshees and Tyranid Warriors/Ravagers).

Reserves:
Coming in from Reserves: If there is no enemy in 24” of a particular table edge, units from reserve that use this edge to enter the table can march an additional 12”
>>Very interesting; the game becomes more dynamic. But this isn't very clearly worded. Can I come from a DE player's edge if he brought everything to the center of the table? How about Outflank and Acute Senses?
Flyers have the “Patient Hunter” special rule which means they can choose to stay in ongoing reserves.

Assault:
Flee: You can chose to immediately lose combat after Hammer of Wrath, before any blows are struck. Iniative roll off as if you had lost combat. If you win, you do a normal Retreat. It happens before pile-ins.
>>Looks a bit like old 5e SM Combat Tactics. If you do receive another charge, would you be able to try Retreat again? Is there a limit/turn per unit?
Overwatch: Must win or tie an iniative roll off to overwatch. Cannot overwatch if Gone to Ground or Pinned.
>>I don't like this. Eldar gunline becomes much better than everyone's else (as if they needed the boost). Tau and IG/AM, on the other hand, suffer a lot receiving a charge with this rule, so they'll probably castle even more and buying very long range stuff to kill chargers before they arrive. Or force these armies to throw everything at the enemy. At least Tau, with Supporting Fire, will have some luck getting a 2 in 3-4 units overwatching. More MoS to CSM?Necrons will depend even more on their Flyers to attack before being attacked.
Charge through Cover: -2 to initiative unless assault grenades or unit being assaulted has Gone to Ground or been Pinned.
Initiative: All models strike at their common Initiative unless they are in a Challenge, or are using Unwieldy weapons like power fists. If a unit has 3 Power Fists, and 2 Chainswords they all strike at Initiative 1.
>>Whoa, this is a big one. No matter how many Power Swords you have with your Honour Guard, the CM with a TH/SS would make all of them strike at Init 1. Poor Blood Angels and their ICs with Power Axes everywhere.
Hammer of Wrath: Counts as part of combat resolution.
Assaulting Vehicles and Buildings: If the vehicle doesn’t have a WS (walker), then you Sweep Attack them rather than Assault them.
>>Seems very strange to sweep a vehicle. Non-Walkers do not possess initative; how the test would be done?

Psychic Powers:
Most happen at the end of the movement phase rather than the start. You have to roll for Warp charges like fantasy (complexity 4?)
Psychic powers do not require line of sight.
>>End of movement phase means blessings and maledictions from Deep Strike/Reserve fellas. Not requiring line of sight? Why? And they could add a line to clarify if the same PP stack or not (AFAIK they do now, don't they?)

Unit Types:
Jump Infantry: Can use jump packs in all phases. If In difficult, and you use Jump pack, must take dangerous terrain test. Jump Packs in assault give HOW but not Rerolls.
>>I think re-rolling the charge distance is better than HoW, but ok. This eats a lot on RG chapter tactics, but at least they'll be the only ones re-rolling charge with jump units
Chariots: can Sweep Attack
Bikes: can Sweep Attack
>>They can in 6th, can't they?
Vehicles: D6 S6 Hammer of Wrath and have Sweep Attack which seems to replace Tank Shock. Walkers do D6 S:Unit Hammer of Wrath. “Death or Glory” against vehicle sweep attacks mean all models in unit Snapshoot at rear armor, or all models within 3” do CC attacks against rear armor. Must take fear test or WS:1. If they fail to stop the vehicle, then they take 2D6 S6 Hammer of Wrath. Only get cover saves against other vehicles.
>>HoW on vehicles not only makes a lot of sense, it's more fluid than Tank Shock. But why does DoG hit REAR armour? AV 10 is too fragile. I'd do this with a vehicle that has nothing else to add in the battle or a LR/Sicaran/IK and stuff like that. And not getting cover from infantry? Why? MCs are generally as big as vehicles (if not bigger) and have none of this.
Light Walkers: Only do 1 Hammer of Wrath. I’m thinking Killa Kans, Scout Sentinal, War Walkers.
Swarms: Take D3 wounds to Template weapons (flamers).

Special Rules:
Fleet add an extra D6, and can discard a D6 in all random moves. No Rerolls.
Move through cover, and you ignore the effects of Difficult Terrain (6” move, no iniative penalty for assault), but not Dangerous.
>>I like both changes.
Shrouded: -2 to BS
>>Wow. Guardsmen shooting at BS 1, Marines/'Low' Eldar at 2, 'High' Eldar at 3 against Nurgle stuff, Venomthrope-supported Nids, Stealth Suits, Invisilble enemies... Will Ignores Cover apply to it as well? I think this is even better than +2 cover saves
Stealth: +1 to Cover
Fearless: Cannot chose to Flee
Preferred Enemy: +1 to hit for both Melee and Shooting.
>>I think this translates the idea of such USR better than just re-rolling 1s. BS5 doesn't need it, however.
Bulky: gives Hammer of Wrath.
>>Termies with HoW? hooray! Suits, Centurions and a lot of other things will get it as well.
Hit and Run: Gives Sweep Attack, cannot leave combat.
Sweep Attack: Close combat attack in the movement phase can only hit ground targets, and can be hit back. Pause during movement, cannot be within 1”. Any model within 3” can attack, and then finish movement. No Pile-ins allowed. Can be part of a Run Move. You can still shoot after a Sweep Attack. Does include Hammer of Wrath.
>>This seems to translate H&R better than jumping in-and-out of combat, but sounds very complicated.
Vector Strike: D6 S:Unit AP:- auto hits. Hits Rear Armor. Swooping must pass within 3” of model being vector strike (no longer have to pass over). Does not count as shooting a weapon. All hits are precision hits.
>>Lost AP3, but double hitting possibility and REAR armour. Chance to eliminate important people down there. I'd call it a sound buff
Look Out Sir: On a 2+ the next closest model takes the wounds. Only 1 Look Out Sir roll for all allocated wounds. Look Out Sir is available to all models with special weapons.
>>Harder to snipe special weapon, but way easier to get the warlord/support IC.
Regeneration: 4+ to recover a wound. Grants Feel No Pain.
>>More buffs to MCs!

Other Rules:
Snapshooting: -3 BS.
High BS: No Rerolls for BS > 6. 1 always misses, 6 always hits.
>>re-rolls make the game slower. The less we have, the better. Snapshooting at -3 BS is a small buff to 'High' Eldar/ICs.

FOC:
HQ: 0-25%, must have 1 warlord
Elite: 0-25%
Troops: 20-75%
Fast Attack: 0-25%
Heavy Support: 0-25%
Secondary Detachments: 0-25%, it includes Allies, Fortifications, Formations, Lords of War and can also include units from your primary codex. You can have 3, but must pick one after rolling for game, deployment and first turn. The player who wins first turn must select first. See example below.
Allies: Allies are part of the Secondary Detachment, but count in Primary FOC. They do not have a troop or HQ limit, and you must have only 1 ally per Secondary detachment, but you can take formations from other allies.
Fortifications: Fortifications are part of the Secondary Detachment.
Formations: Formations are part of the Secondary Detachment, and don’t count in the Primary FOC.
Lords of War: If one player brings a Lord of war and the other player does not, the first player must declare his Secondary Detachment first, and the opponent has a chance to bring fourth Secondary Detachment. Any Heavy Support in this special Secondary Detachment do not count against the Heavy Support Limit.
>>These rules are a bit confusing. They're trying to rein in allies shenanigans, but this picking before the game even began strikes me unnecessarily complex. And, of course, Formations do not eat FOC.

At first glance, I saw no nerfs to MCs... just buffs (specially to FMC). Jeebus.

 gorgon wrote:
I have to say that my Tyranids would really like a lot of those rumored changes.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
None of this sounds at all appealing. I think this is a case of "Fool me once, shame on you...".

You can't fool me twice.

 krazynadechukr wrote:
Love the misspellings and gramatical errors in the first (anonymous, btw) rumor... "as off today" & "known lossed" & "in there shops."

 Idolator wrote:
Computers track and calculate the amounts of sales, these are done instantaneously at the time of sale. It is then merely a number that has to be placed on a certain line of the report which is then also calculated by a computer. That part is incredibly simple. When working retail I could tell you the sales of every store from the chain in any country for any given day. If I wanted to tell you the figures for the whole company for the entire year, all I had to do was use two scroll down menus and wait less than a second. They aren't slaving away somewhere adding numbers together with a pencil from sales reports coming in on a ticker tape machine.

 namiel wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Ralis wrote:
I'll say it again...

If they make Overwatch hinge on a Initative check, They might as well take it out of the game. the Armies that rely on Overwatch to stay out of assault have low init... Or don't care about assault in the first place.

Unless they go at full BS, then it's a pretty decent trade.

now picture dark elder with poisoned shooting overwatching at full BS.......

 Vector Strike wrote:
I'll add some comments inside the text ( >> )

tag8833 wrote:
There was a detail leak a while back:
http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?43705-GIANT-40k-WFB-Rumordump-WARNING-NaCl-ALERT!!!

I've tried to distilled the 40k specific rules from that giant chat log:

Spoiler:

Movement:
Run: D6 or 2D6 for Flying Monstrous Creatures that are Swooping.
>>Makes sense... but no added bonus to Jump/Jet Pack units? <- it wasn't clear to me one way or the other.
Consolidations: 2D6 pick one, but you only consolidate on your turn. You can charge with your consolidation move. Opponent can overwatch. You only get to fight once per turn, so if you consolidate into a new combat you don’t get to fight, unless your fist combat didn’t fight (opponent flees).
>>This is cool. Adds the idea of 'momentum' to melee troops. Will nearby 6" Tau units be able to overwatch again, if they did use Suppressing Fire in the previous charge?
Retreats: 6 + D6
Charge: 2D6, not affected by difficult terrain.
Move through Difficult: 2D6 pick one.
Charge through Difficult: 2D6 (The same, but -2 iniative).
>>This helps melee units without assault grenades (Howling Banshees and Tyranid Warriors/Ravagers).

Reserves:
Coming in from Reserves: If there is no enemy in 24” of a particular table edge, units from reserve that use this edge to enter the table can march an additional 12”
>>Very interesting; the game becomes more dynamic. But this isn't very clearly worded. Can I come from a DE player's edge if he brought everything to the center of the table? How about Outflank and Acute Senses? <- no specific information here. My guess is it doesn't effect which board edge you come in from, just how far you move when you come in.
Flyers have the “Patient Hunter” special rule which means they can choose to stay in ongoing reserves.

Assault:
Flee: You can chose to immediately lose combat after Hammer of Wrath, before any blows are struck. Iniative roll off as if you had lost combat. If you win, you do a normal Retreat. It happens before pile-ins.
>>Looks a bit like old 5e SM Combat Tactics. If you do receive another charge, would you be able to try Retreat again? Is there a limit/turn per unit? <- I should have added losing the initiative roll off means you are destroyed. They might have mentioned a scenario of what happens if you already fled once, but I'm not sure.
Overwatch: Must win or tie an iniative roll off to overwatch. Cannot overwatch if Gone to Ground or Pinned.
>>I don't like this. Eldar gunline becomes much better than everyone's else (as if they needed the boost). Tau and IG/AM, on the other hand, suffer a lot receiving a charge with this rule, so they'll probably castle even more and buying very long range stuff to kill chargers before they arrive. Or force these armies to throw everything at the enemy. At least Tau, with Supporting Fire, will have some luck getting a 2 in 3-4 units overwatching. More MoS to CSM?Necrons will depend even more on their Flyers to attack before being attacked.
Charge through Cover: -2 to initiative unless assault grenades or unit being assaulted has Gone to Ground or been Pinned.
Initiative: All models strike at their common Initiative unless they are in a Challenge, or are using Unwieldy weapons like power fists. If a unit has 3 Power Fists, and 2 Chainswords they all strike at Initiative 1.
>>Whoa, this is a big one. No matter how many Power Swords you have with your Honour Guard, the CM with a TH/SS would make all of them strike at Init 1. Poor Blood Angels and their ICs with Power Axes everywhere.
Hammer of Wrath: Counts as part of combat resolution.
Assaulting Vehicles and Buildings: If the vehicle doesn’t have a WS (walker), then you Sweep Attack them rather than Assault them.
>>Seems very strange to sweep a vehicle. Non-Walkers do not possess initative; how the test would be done? <- They can't attack back or overwatch so no need for initiative.

Psychic Powers:
Most happen at the end of the movement phase rather than the start. You have to roll for Warp charges like fantasy (complexity 4?)
Psychic powers do not require line of sight.
>>End of movement phase means blessings and maledictions from Deep Strike/Reserve fellas. Not requiring line of sight? Why? And they could add a line to clarify if the same PP stack or not (AFAIK they do now, don't they?) <- The fluff explanation is that "Warp Sight" is not the same as regular sight.

Unit Types:
Jump Infantry: Can use jump packs in all phases. If In difficult, and you use Jump pack, must take dangerous terrain test. Jump Packs in assault give HOW but not Rerolls.
>>I think re-rolling the charge distance is better than HoW, but ok. This eats a lot on RG chapter tactics, but at least they'll be the only ones re-rolling charge with jump units
Chariots: can Sweep Attack
Bikes: can Sweep Attack
>>They can in 6th, can't they? <- "Sweep attack" is a new thing. You are thinking of sweeping an enemy post combat resolution. The new Sweep Attack is more like vector strike.
Vehicles: D6 S6 Hammer of Wrath and have Sweep Attack which seems to replace Tank Shock. Walkers do D6 S:Unit Hammer of Wrath. “Death or Glory” against vehicle sweep attacks mean all models in unit Snapshoot at rear armor, or all models within 3” do CC attacks against rear armor. Must take fear test or WS:1. If they fail to stop the vehicle, then they take 2D6 S6 Hammer of Wrath. Only get cover saves against other vehicles.
>>HoW on vehicles not only makes a lot of sense, it's more fluid than Tank Shock. But why does DoG hit REAR armour? AV 10 is too fragile. I'd do this with a vehicle that has nothing else to add in the battle or a LR/Sicaran/IK and stuff like that. And not getting cover from infantry? Why? MCs are generally as big as vehicles (if not bigger) and have none of this. <- Fluff explanation is that because the vehicle is passing by, the unit death or Glorying can hold their fire for the back armor or weak points. I don't know if MC's lose cover against infantry. They might.
Light Walkers: Only do 1 Hammer of Wrath. I’m thinking Killa Kans, Scout Sentinal, War Walkers.
Swarms: Take D3 wounds to Template weapons (flamers).

Special Rules:
Fleet add an extra D6, and can discard a D6 in all random moves. No Rerolls.
Move through cover, and you ignore the effects of Difficult Terrain (6” move, no iniative penalty for assault), but not Dangerous.
>>I like both changes.
Shrouded: -2 to BS
>>Wow. Guardsmen shooting at BS 1, Marines/'Low' Eldar at 2, 'High' Eldar at 3 against Nurgle stuff, Venomthrope-supported Nids, Stealth Suits, Invisilble enemies... Will Ignores Cover apply to it as well? I think this is even better than +2 cover saves <- I have no more information. It was kind of a off hand comment that I may have interpreted wrong.
Stealth: +1 to Cover
Fearless: Cannot chose to Flee
Preferred Enemy: +1 to hit for both Melee and Shooting.
>>I think this translates the idea of such USR better than just re-rolling 1s. BS5 doesn't need it, however. <- BS5 doesn't get it. 1 is always a miss. No more Rerolls for BS6+
Bulky: gives Hammer of Wrath.
>>Termies with HoW? hooray! Suits, Centurions and a lot of other things will get it as well.
Hit and Run: Gives Sweep Attack, cannot leave combat.
Sweep Attack: Close combat attack in the movement phase can only hit ground targets, and can be hit back. Pause during movement, cannot be within 1”. Any model within 3” can attack, and then finish movement. No Pile-ins allowed. Can be part of a Run Move. You can still shoot after a Sweep Attack. Does include Hammer of Wrath.
>>This seems to translate H&R better than jumping in-and-out of combat, but sounds very complicated. <- It does seem very complicated. I had a hard time figuring out how to word it. They suggested there was a whole box about it in the rule book.
Vector Strike: D6 S:Unit AP:- auto hits. Hits Rear Armor. Swooping must pass within 3” of model being vector strike (no longer have to pass over). Does not count as shooting a weapon. All hits are precision hits.
>>Lost AP3, but double hitting possibility and REAR armour. Chance to eliminate important people down there. I'd call it a sound buff <- It loses Ignores Cover, which is a bit of a Nerf, but overall seems buffed.
Look Out Sir: On a 2+ the next closest model takes the wounds. Only 1 Look Out Sir roll for all allocated wounds. Look Out Sir is available to all models with special weapons.
>>Harder to snipe special weapon, but way easier to get the warlord/support IC.
Regeneration: 4+ to recover a wound. Grants Feel No Pain.
>>More buffs to MCs! <- This might be a change that only effects fantasy. It was hard to tell. I went back and forward on if this should be included in my summary.

Other Rules:
Snapshooting: -3 BS.
High BS: No Rerolls for BS > 6. 1 always misses, 6 always hits.
>>re-rolls make the game slower. The less we have, the better. Snapshooting at -3 BS is a small buff to 'High' Eldar/ICs.

FOC:
HQ: 0-25%, must have 1 warlord
Elite: 0-25%
Troops: 20-75%
Fast Attack: 0-25%
Heavy Support: 0-25%
Secondary Detachments: 0-25%, it includes Allies, Fortifications, Formations, Lords of War and can also include units from your primary codex. You can have 3, but must pick one after rolling for game, deployment and first turn. The player who wins first turn must select first. See example below.
Allies: Allies are part of the Secondary Detachment, but count in Primary FOC. They do not have a troop or HQ limit, and you must have only 1 ally per Secondary detachment, but you can take formations from other allies.
Fortifications: Fortifications are part of the Secondary Detachment.
Formations: Formations are part of the Secondary Detachment, and don’t count in the Primary FOC.
Lords of War: If one player brings a Lord of war and the other player does not, the first player must declare his Secondary Detachment first, and the opponent has a chance to bring fourth Secondary Detachment. Any Heavy Support in this special Secondary Detachment do not count against the Heavy Support Limit.
>>These rules are a bit confusing. They're trying to rein in allies shenanigans, but this picking before the game even began strikes me unnecessarily complex. And, of course, Formations do not eat FOC. <- If I show up to a game, and someone tries to list tailor to me, I might be pissed. Formations do not eat FOC, but they do eat Secondary Detachment limits. The FOC changes are what excites me the most, but also seem to have the most initial resistance. I think once people start using the percentage system they will love it.

At first glance, I saw no nerfs to MCs... just buffs (specially to FMC). Jeebus.

 pretre wrote:
Disentangle the silly pancake 2.0 rumors from the fact that there will probably be a 6.5/7 update.

ClockworkZion wrote:From what customer service told me: yes. If it's "No Longer Available" it is gone. I'm hoping we'll just get a Finecast or plastic replacement soon to make up for the loss of the old metal one.

Spoiler:

ClockworkZion wrote:The fiscal year ends in May, the new set would go on sale in June which is FY 2015, too late to actually affect this year.

ClockworkZion wrote:I just realized the title of the thread says "Old English" rulebook discontinued. Gods and here I was thinking the rules were in modern English. No wonder they're so unclear!

 Kroothawk wrote:
Preorders start 24th May, release 31st May, so peak sales online and by stores are in May. This is clearly to compensate for the sales drop in the previous 11 months, so that for the casual observer, annual total revenue looks more or less flat.

 pretre wrote:
Disentangle the silly pancake 2.0 rumors from the fact that there will probably be a 6.5/7 update.

Oh good, let's encourage MSU spam and ban using multiple tanks below 2000 points. Oh, and we'd better take all that Escalation nonsense back out of the game.

Shingen wrote:

Oh good, let's encourage MSU spam and ban using multiple tanks below 2000 points. Oh, and we'd better take all that Escalation nonsense back out of the game.

I don't see a problem with this. Will help to stop Death Stars which quite frankly ruin the game for most people.

Plus it might help my DE in Purge the Alien missions. Its stupid when I practically table my opponent, have half my army left but still lose on kill points because I have 22 to give away and my opponent has 11.

 pretre wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
Preorders start 24th May, release 31st May, so peak sales online and by stores are in May. This is clearly to compensate for the sales drop in the previous 11 months, so that for the casual observer, annual total revenue looks more or less flat.

Tinfoil hat engaged!

 pretre wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
Preorders start 24th May, release 31st May, so peak sales online and by stores are in May. This is clearly to compensate for the sales drop in the previous 11 months, so that for the casual observer, annual total revenue looks more or less flat.

Tinfoil hat engaged!