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So just on a "how much stuff released" perspective you could argue that 6th isn't leaving too soon. And it's interesting that in 2 years we got the same number of codexes in 6th that we got in 4-5 years with 5th. I wonder if GW is basing the launch of a new edition on the amount of stuff they've released and not the amount of time between the editions.
On a timeline though 2 years still really feels short regardless of how much stuff came out, but I don't think this edition has been short changed on content at least.
joemarra052075 wrote: My only problem with it would be that I am on a limited budget, I just started playing 8 weeks ago, and I would have to buy 2 rulebooks (my GW store says that if my daughter wants to play a game at the same time as me she needs her own book)
Ahahahaha!!!!
THIS!
I REALLY wish I had a store manager say that to me... I REALLY do!
The proper response:
"Let me get this straight, my other family member or ANY person playing the game in your store must have the rulebook on them, each and every one?"
"Please consider what you will say next to prevent me from leaving and never coming back as well as telling everyone I know about this incident."
"What is your name again? I plan on confirming with your head office that this is corporate policy for GW stores."
What if instead of saying "homina, homina, homina" they tell you to "get the feth out of my store if you don't like it"?
joemarra052075 wrote: My only problem with it would be that I am on a limited budget, I just started playing 8 weeks ago, and I would have to buy 2 rulebooks (my GW store says that if my daughter wants to play a game at the same time as me she needs her own book)
Ahahahaha!!!! THIS! I REALLY wish I had a store manager say that to me... I REALLY do!
The proper response:
"Let me get this straight, my other family member or ANY person playing the game in your store must have the rulebook on them, each and every one?" "Please consider what you will say next to prevent me from leaving and never coming back as well as telling everyone I know about this incident." "What is your name again? I plan on confirming with your head office that this is corporate policy for GW stores."
What if instead of saying "homina, homina, homina" they tell you to "get the feth out of my store if you don't like it"?
That seems to be the typical GW business response to any complaints... don't like it, don't play. Eventually though you won't have anyone to play if you have that attitude.
I now imagine a deserted/ransacked GW store while the "Rains of Castamere" plays and said manager commits suicide in the back room before GW corporate shuts them down.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/29 18:14:05
joemarra052075 wrote: She does strongly encourage everyone to have their own so they can learn the rules.
You can use ePub on your phone. Since it's pretty unwieldy to use, then share the actual book. If they give you a problem, just show them your, obviously legal, ePub version on your phone and your rulebook.
monders wrote: I can understand everyone being miffed that this edition isn't even two years old yet, but look at Mantic and Dreadball. 4 updates in what, 12 months?!
Ok I'm being flippant, but let's see what it actually has rather than forecasting doom and gloom. Not everyone will be happy, though, let's brace ourselves!
I'm half tempted to box up my 6th ed rule book and chuck it in the post without postage. I've used it three times. That'll learn 'em!
Genuine question, but were these simply expansions or a complete overhaul of the game itself?
Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them.
gorgon wrote: What if instead of saying "homina, homina, homina" they tell you to "get the feth out of my store if you don't like it"?
Ah, good question!
Glad you paid attention to the details as "homina", it is a corporate store not "theirs" or a franchise.
Swearing at customers would be even better, I have managed in separate incidents to get five people fired who were acting like bullies... I do not let things like that pass.
I actually smile when people get all unreasonable like that, I have other hobbies too...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/29 18:26:51
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
Kosake wrote: I never understood why Rhinos were not considered assault vehicles in the first place...
The 3rd edition BA Rhino Rush still lives in many dreams and nightmares
How is this any different than the ork battle wagon/truck rushes today, or 5th edition? I don't understand why it's easier to assault from an open top vehicle then thru a door?
You obviously didn't play 3rd edition.
On Turn 1, Blood Angels could drive across the board, assault you, kill the unit they assaulted and then consolidate into a fresh assault to be protected from shooting on your turn. And there wasn't a damn thing you could do about it. That's a lot different than ork BW / trukk rush.
Wasn't a consolidate move only 3" in 3rd?
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
pretre wrote: You obviously didn't play 3rd edition.
On Turn 1, Blood Angels could drive across the board, assault you, kill the unit they assaulted and then consolidate into a fresh assault to be protected from shooting on your turn. And there wasn't a damn thing you could do about it. That's a lot different than ork BW / trukk rush.
Wasn't a consolidate move only 3" in 3rd?
Sounds about right. It's been a while. Try to keep all your units 3" apart while trying to stay as far away from your opponent as possible though...
Usually it meant you had to have assault screeners to prevent consolidation and give them something to eat.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/29 18:27:59
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Kosake wrote: I never understood why Rhinos were not considered assault vehicles in the first place...
The 3rd edition BA Rhino Rush still lives in many dreams and nightmares
How is this any different than the ork battle wagon/truck rushes today, or 5th edition? I don't understand why it's easier to assault from an open top vehicle then thru a door?
You obviously didn't play 3rd edition.
On Turn 1, Blood Angels could drive across the board, assault you, kill the unit they assaulted and then consolidate into a fresh assault to be protected from shooting on your turn. And there wasn't a damn thing you could do about it. That's a lot different than ork BW / trukk rush.
Wasn't a consolidate move only 3" in 3rd?
12" move, 6" overcharged engines, 1-6" from failed black rage test, 2" disembark. 21" to 26" across the board in one turn.
Remember access points didn't exist at that point in the game, so it was 2" disembark from any point of the Rhino.
Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them.
Okay I whipped this up. This is what I think our end result will be at some point:
(Sung to the tune of "The Rains of Castamere")
And who are you, those proud men said, to play our game this way?
The game's not meant for tournaments
or playing in that way
Just play the game the way we want
and then you'll be okay
Forget things like a balanced game
and pay the price we say
And so they spoke, and so they spoke
And kept the game this way
But now the rains weep o'er their stores, with no one there to play
Yes now the rains weep o'er their stores, and not a soul to play
monders wrote: I can understand everyone being miffed that this edition isn't even two years old yet, but look at Mantic and Dreadball. 4 updates in what, 12 months?!
Ok I'm being flippant, but let's see what it actually has rather than forecasting doom and gloom. Not everyone will be happy, though, let's brace ourselves!
I'm half tempted to box up my 6th ed rule book and chuck it in the post without postage. I've used it three times. That'll learn 'em!
Genuine question, but were these simply expansions or a complete overhaul of the game itself?
If he's talking about the Seasons, then they're additional books that introduced new rules and teams into the game.
WayneTheGame wrote: Okay I whipped this up. This is what I think our end result will be at some point:
(Sung to the tune of "The Rains of Castamere")
And who are you, those proud men said, to play our game this way?
The game's not meant for tournaments
or playing in that way
Just play the game the way we want
and then you'll be okay
Forget things like a balanced game
and pay the price we say
And so they spoke, and so they spoke
And kept the game this way
But now the rains weep o'er their stores, with no one there to play
Yes now the rains weep o'er their stores, and not a soul to play
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
joemarra052075 wrote: She does strongly encourage everyone to have their own so they can learn the rules.
Response: My daughter can borrow mine any time, I do not read it 24-7.
But this is not your mom here, this is a store manager = supplier for your hobby and does not have the right to "encourage" your wallet to fork over money you cannot afford to lose.
I dislike people who want-need our money trying to sound like they have a say in how it is spent.
I am glad the person is willing to help with painting tips but remember that is part of the job description, from the other comments I would gather this person is not your "friend".
So a new rulebook is in the works and I am sure you can find some way to share an "epub" and stick it on a phone as pointed out and then it would be none of her business.
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
WayneTheGame wrote: Okay I whipped this up. This is what I think our end result will be at some point:
(Sung to the tune of "The Rains of Castamere")
And who are you, those proud men said, to play our game this way?
The game's not meant for tournaments
or playing in that way
Just play the game the way we want
and then you'll be okay
Forget things like a balanced game
and pay the price we say
And so they spoke, and so they spoke
And kept the game this way
But now the rains weep o'er their stores, with no one there to play
Yes now the rains weep o'er their stores, and not a soul to play
Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them.
WayneTheGame wrote: Okay I whipped this up. This is what I think our end result will be at some point:
(Sung to the tune of "The Rains of Castamere")
And who are you, those proud men said, to play our game this way?
The game's not meant for tournaments
or playing in that way
Just play the game the way we want
and then you'll be okay
Forget things like a balanced game
and pay the price we say
And so they spoke, and so they spoke
And kept the game this way
But now the rains weep o'er their stores, with no one there to play
Yes now the rains weep o'er their stores, and not a soul to play
Here's the Sigur Ros version to go with it!
Quite brilliant Wayne, I think you've won the thread
joemarra052075 wrote: Yeah. Never made much sense to me that she had to have her own.
It's an extra $75 (or whatever it is) in the till and an extra core rulebook sale for the figures.
Spoiler:
Doesn't stop it from being a cash grabbing dick move though.
Pretty much this. She needs to sell stuff to keep her job (because the GW Corporate Sales department is fething asinine and will fire you the same month they hire you for not meeting target figures, even if you're taking over a horribly tanking store and have done stuff to make it better) and thus has created a rule to help that along. Still a dick move in a lot of ways, but one caused by GW Corporate being even bigger dicks.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/29 18:50:41
joemarra052075 wrote: On the other hand if they put out a new box set I will probably get that. Just, sheesh...8 weeks in and new rules.
I recall people needing to buy a second rulebook because 6th dropped the day after they got their 5th edition rulebook. GW used to be a LOT worse about this. At least pulling the rulebook a month out is a much less dickish way to do it.
gorgon wrote: What if instead of saying "homina, homina, homina" they tell you to "get the feth out of my store if you don't like it"?
Ah, good question!
Glad you paid attention to the details as "homina", it is a corporate store not "theirs" or a franchise.
Swearing at customers would be even better, I have managed in separate incidents to get five people fired who were acting like bullies... I do not let things like that pass.
I actually smile when people get all unreasonable like that, I have other hobbies too...
I know that you think that speaks well of you, but it really doesn't.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/29 19:02:52
quickfuze wrote: What in the world are you talking about here? 40K doesn't use a percentage based system and you can get either of those formations into MUCH smaller games. Or are you saying that they will be addressed in the new edition IF they go to percentage based like WHFB?
**** Note, "Sweep Attack" is a new thing, and not the same thing as a sweeping advance. Movement: Run: D6 or 2D6 for Flying Monstrous Creatures that are Swooping. Consolidations: 2D6 pick one, but you only consolidate on your turn. You can charge with your consolidation move. Opponent can overwatch. You only get to fight once per turn, so if you consolidate into a new combat you don’t get to fight, unless your fist combat didn’t fight (opponent flees). Retreats: 6 + D6 Charge: 2D6, not affected by difficult terrain. Move through Difficult: 2D6 pick one. Charge through Difficult: 2D6 (The same, but -2 iniative).
Reserves: Coming in from Reserves: If there is no enemy in 24” of a particular table edge, units from reserve that use this edge to enter the table can march an additional 12” Flyers have the “Patient Hunter” special rule which means they can choose to stay in ongoing reserves.
Assault: Flee: You can chose to immediately lose combat after Hammer of Wrath, before any blows are struck. Iniative roll off as if you had lost combat. If you win, you do a normal Retreat. If you lose, the unit is destroyed. It happens before pile-ins. Overwatch: Must win or tie an iniative roll off to overwatch. Cannot overwatch if Gone to Ground or Pinned. Charge through Cover: -2 to initiative unless assault grenades or unit being assaulted has Gone to Ground or been Pinned. Initiative: All models strike at their common Initiative unless they are in a Challenge, or are using Unwieldy weapons like power fists. If a unit has 3 Power Fists, and 2 Chainswords they all strike at Initiative 1. Hammer of Wrath: Counts as part of combat resolution. Assaulting Vehicles and Buildings: If the vehicle doesn’t have a WS (walker), then you Sweep Attack them rather than Assault them.
Psychic Powers: Most happen at the end of the movement phase rather than the start. You have to roll for Warp charges like fantasy (complexity 4?) Psychic powers do not require line of sight.
Unit Types: Jump Infantry: Can use jump packs in all phases. If In difficult, and you use Jump pack, must take dangerous terrain test. Jump Packs in assault give HOW but not Rerolls. Chariots: can Sweep Attack Bikes: can Sweep Attack Vehicles: D6 S6 Hammer of Wrath and have Sweep Attack which seems to replace Tank Shock. Walkers do D6 S:Unit Hammer of Wrath. “Death or Glory” against vehicle sweep attacks mean all models in unit Snapshoot at rear armor, or all models within 3” do CC attacks against rear armor. Must take fear test or WS:1. If they fail to stop the vehicle, then they take 2D6 S6 Hammer of Wrath. Only get cover saves against other vehicles. Light Walkers: Only do 1 Hammer of Wrath. I’m thinking Killa Kans, Scout Sentinal, War Walkers. Swarms: Take D3 wounds to Template weapons (flamers).
Special Rules: Fleet add an extra D6, and can discard a D6 in all random moves. No Rerolls. Move through cover, and you ignore the effects of Difficult Terrain (6” move, no iniative penalty for assault), but not Dangerous. Shrouded: -2 to BS Stealth: +1 to Cover Fearless: Cannot chose to Flee Preferred Enemy: +1 to hit for both Melee and Shooting. Bulky: gives Hammer of Wrath. Hit and Run: Gives Sweep Attack, cannot leave combat. Sweep Attack: Close combat attack in the movement phase can only hit ground targets, and can be hit back. Pause during movement, cannot be within 1”. Any model within 3” can attack, and then finish movement. No Pile-ins allowed. Can be part of a Run Move. You can still shoot after a Sweep Attack. Does include Hammer of Wrath. Vector Strike: D6 S:Unit AP:- auto hits. Hits Rear Armor. Swooping must pass within 3” of model being vector strike (no longer have to pass over). Does not count as shooting a weapon. All hits are precision hits. Look Out Sir: On a 2+ the next closest model takes the wounds. Only 1 Look Out Sir roll for all allocated wounds. Look Out Sir is available to all models with special weapons. Regeneration: 4+ to recover a wound. Grants Feel No Pain.
Other Rules: Snapshooting: -3 BS. High BS: No Rerolls for BS > 6. 1 always misses, 6 always hits.
FOC: HQ: 0-25%, must have 1 warlord Elite: 0-25% Troops: 20-75% Fast Attack: 0-25% Heavy Support: 0-25% Secondary Detachments: 0-25%, it includes Allies, Fortifications, Formations, Lords of War and can also include units from your primary codex. You can have 3, but must pick one after rolling for game, deployment and first turn. The player who wins first turn must select first. See example below. Allies: Allies are part of the Secondary Detachment, but count in Primary FOC. They do not have a troop or HQ limit, and you must have only 1 ally per Secondary detachment, but you can take formations from other allies. Fortifications: Fortifications are part of the Secondary Detachment. Formations: Formations are part of the Secondary Detachment, and don’t count in the Primary FOC. Lords of War: If one player brings a Lord of war and the other player does not, the first player must declare his Secondary Detachment first, and the opponent has a chance to bring fourth Secondary Detachment. Any Heavy Support in this special Secondary Detachment do not count against the Heavy Support Limit.
Secondary Option 3 (250/250): Troops (200/390/750) 15 HGaunts – 75 Heavy Support (215/250) TFex - 175
I was not involved in the original chat, nor do I have any additional information beyond what is included in that chat. I do not have proof that any of the information in the chat is legit, but it rings true to me, because it is not presented in a way that someone would present false rumors, it is highly detailed, and it is focused on fantasy instead of 40k.
The single change that most excites me is the percentage FOC, because it is such an elegant solution to so many of the problems in the current meta of 40k (Spam Lists, Deathstars, Allies, Escalation, and Fortifications).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/29 19:06:02
WayneTheGame wrote: Okay I whipped this up. This is what I think our end result will be at some point:
(Sung to the tune of "The Rains of Castamere")
And who are you, those proud men said, to play our game this way?
The game's not meant for tournaments
or playing in that way
Just play the game the way we want
and then you'll be okay
Forget things like a balanced game
and pay the price we say
And so they spoke, and so they spoke
And kept the game this way
But now the rains weep o'er their stores, with no one there to play
Yes now the rains weep o'er their stores, and not a soul to play
Strangly these lyrics fit almost perfectly into "rest ye merry gentlemen"
YakManDoo wrote: I leave you with this nugget of Jervis Johnson design insight:
"“Just decide on which scenario or mission you are going to play normally, but then sit down with your opponent before deploying, and come up with a background story explaining why the battle is taking place.”
This done, replace the victory conditions with a set of objectives for each side based on the background you have come up with, and then proceed to set up your armies and fight the battle. At the end of the game, discuss who has won with your opponent – if you can’t agree, then the battle is clearly a draw! I think (and hope) that you will be surprised how much difference this small change can make to the way that the game feels and plays.”
In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only discussion amongst friends...
I'm looking forwards to 8th edition, where we'll just put all our models on the table, come up with a background story explaining why they would fight, and then talk about all the cool things that would happen in that battle, and then talk about whether Superman could beat Iron Man, and then talk about how cool it would be if Iron Man was in 40K, and then discuss whether Iron Man would have beaten either of our armies, and then decide that Iron Man is the winner and pack up and go home!
No need for those pesky 'rules' getting in the way of having fun.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
paqman wrote: I started 40k with 5th so I never experienced this feature of 2nd. Let me tell you that this is a hell of a great idea! I'm tempted to figure out a way to introduce this in my friendly games..
I made up a bunch of Mission Cards in 5th edition based loosely on the 2nd ed cards. As with in 2nd, you basically just shuffle the cards and deal one out to each player before the game.
I had always intended to update them to 6th ed and get them back online, but at this point it seems sensible to wait and see what this month brings...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ausYenLoWang wrote: and im very sorry but as someone who like to field things, if something like allies becomes optional, when you play a PUG that means jo blogs can do a big nahh cant use that.
Er... they can do that now.
Nobody is ever obligated to play against you.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/04/29 19:48:42
I'm looking forwards to 8th edition, where we'll just put all our models on the table, come up with a background story explaining why they would fight, and then talk about all the cool things that would happen in that battle, and then talk about whether Superman could beat Iron Man, and then talk about how cool it would be if Iron Man was in 40K, and then discuss whether Iron Man would have beaten either of our armies, and then decide that Iron Man is the winner and pack up and go home!
This is actually scarily similar to how most of my 40k games go. You should give it a try, it's awesome.
Also, I'd be fine with army-specific objectives, it works great in Deadzone.
I am going to read your review to learn if I want to get the new rules. One way or another. Likely another.
Which was the reason I started writing them: because I kept seeing people complain they were tired of buying stuff blind.
See, that is why you need to start Warmachine. So I can also get reviews on Warmachine stuff !
(Kidding, actually it is quite easy to get an idea of the profile of a model on the internet, and all the books are available at my FLGS to skim through before buying them)
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
