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 Xca|iber wrote:
At least if the rules are clear, players can have a sense of what will be good/bad matchups, rather than finding out mid-game that there is a disagreement about how their army/unit/rule functions.

Yeah, but if we want to still use our lovingly painted models, we need to lower our expectations, man! Well-written rules are not going to happen, and neither is balance.

So, we've essentially changed the conversation from "This new edition will probably be 6.5 with minor tweaks, no need to panic!" to "We don't know how all these major changes will affect the game until we see the actual rulebook, no need to panic!"

We've decided to ignore the rather ridiculous idea of a 2 year rules cycle involving $100 BRBs and $50 Codices. But it's cool, no need to panic.

I've been playing this game for a mere 14 years, but I've seen the following disappear: GTs/RTTs, Games Day, bitz ordering, Outriders, respect for Independent Retailers, metal miniatures, unit entries from codices, White Dwarf, Black Gobbo, and on, and on..

GW has jumped the shark for me, fellas. The few friends I have left who still play 40K will be sticking with 6th Edition. I love the game, but my relationship with the company has to end at this point.

 azreal13 wrote:
So much negativity over such little information. .

It's almost as if, when you don't tell people what's going on, and then just trickle a little information out at a time, people may form negative opions when they don't like what they're hearing...


It's a crazy, crazy world.

I just came back to 40K so it might be a good or bad time. At least I don't have to worry about learning 6th Edition so thoroughly now. I'm not keen on the no FOC aspect, but just because you can take all of one type of unit, doesn't mean it will be a wise decision. I'm going to remain optimistic about this new edition, mostly since the group I play in is not all concerned with playing the best units in a dex, more of what they like. I think we'll be fine.

I'm curious to see how the new allies chart looks and how this affects the Unbound options. Perhaps an Unbound army can't take allies...that would be one balancing factor for sure.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah. Instead of a whole army that's mostly Riptides.

HQ ? Troops ? That is for the weak, man! The only thing you can add to that riptide army is a goddamn revenant titan now !

The other thing to consider, as alarmingrick rather bitingly pointed out a number of pages back, is that there will be people who insist on playing Unbound yet still throw a fit at the thought of someone using a Forge World unit.

"Let's play Unbound! I have an army of Chaos Land Raiders and Helldrakes! This is so much fun!"
"Ok, well I've got a Griffon and-"
"A Griffon? That's Forge World!"
"Yeah but-"
"Forge World units are cheese!"
"You realise this was in the Guard Codex not 3 months ago, with the exact same rules."
"But it's FW cheese!"
"You have an army of Land Raiders and Helldrakes. The Griffon can't even hurt your army."
"CHEESE!!!"


I guess you just can either Forge World, or Forge a Narrative, but not both...

Well, can't say that any of these leaks make me excited, or happy, or anything positive really. I'll wait for the full release before my full judgement, but I truly think GW have gone right off the deep end with this unbound nonsense.

And here I still had a little hope they'd fix the game, even if just a little.

GW won't be seeing my money.

 azreal13 wrote:
So much negativity over such little information.

What's the worst outcome of the new info in relation to where we are now?
[...]

For the time being at least, we are aware of a handful of changes, with no idea how they fit into the broader fabric of the new ruleset.

It's already clear from what was revealed in the WD that the changes aren't what anyone was (fervently) suggesting, and they are utterly insane.

Unbound FOCs when they have grossly imbalanced units would require such ridiculous rules contrivances that it could only make it worse than what was already revealed. When I get my hands on this White Dwarf I expect there to be a stupidity vortex that forces me to roll on a Perils of the What chart.

 Zweischneid wrote:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
The folks who should be mad in my opinion are the TO's who are not getting paid anything to promote a game they get respect for doing. You just got you nose shoved in it and your going to continue to support it? You are going to continue for at least another 4 yrs to try and hammer out rules the company doesnt care about?

If the "competitive side" of the hobby hadn't ruined the hobby during 4th and 5th with their obnoxious "RAW/"legal-trumps-fun""-attitude to gaming, we'd not be having any problems in the first place.

Well it's time to cut you off from the bar.

 the_Armyman wrote:
So, we've essentially changed the conversation from "This new edition will probably be 6.5 with minor tweaks, no need to panic!" to "We don't know how all these major changes will affect the game until we see the actual rulebook, no need to panic!"

We've decided to ignore the rather ridiculous idea of a 2 year rules cycle involving $100 BRBs and $50 Codices. But it's cool, no need to panic.

I've been playing this game for a mere 14 years, but I've seen the following disappear: GTs/RTTs, Games Day, bitz ordering, Outriders, respect for Independent Retailers, metal miniatures, unit entries from codices, White Dwarf, Black Gobbo, and on, and on..

GW has jumped the shark for me, fellas. The few friends I have left who still play 40K will be sticking with 6th Edition. I love the game, but my relationship with the company has to end at this point.

Yep, it hurts so much to see a franchise you love just get driven by a disgusting motive for profit and to not feel it as what it once was. Warhammer is one of those hobbies which I have to really escape 'reality' or I dont know how to say it, its something which I can just totally disconnect myself with from everything and truly relax. To feel that relaxation be disrupted by the very gak that fills me with hatred in this world makes me hate so so so so so so much.

Is it possible GW is pushing so far into a gaming imbalance that 40K will complete the circuit and end up balanced?

I'm really not seeing the new "unbound" thing working out well, it sounds like GW tossing in the towel and saying "yeah, just buy whatever and do whatever" in a lame attempt to generate sales. It really sounds like someone has gone off the deep end in the rules area, and none of this sounds particularly fun.

This is really killing my enthusiasm for 40k.

So, noone else is a bit excited to see how will the game evolve thanks to unbound army ? My flgs tend to allow just everything when they organize a tournament, so I think unbound will be okay. I sense a LOT of fun coming!

I'm probably in a small minority in that I like the idea of unbound armies. I'm pretty much a painter and collector and only really see gaming as an excuse to use the miniatures I spent ages on and meet up with mates. Now I can include whatever I want from my collection without having to worry about restrictions, so I'm happy. Full titan army? Hell yeah!

Also, if you think unbound is a bad idea, you don't have to play it that way. I'll take my unbound army, you take your battle-forged army. It'll be interesting to find out what bonuses unbound armies sacrifice.

I don't see many places allowing unbound armies. As a "just for fun" game type it makes me happy that I could do a Night Lords army with tons of Raptors, or an Iron Warriors army with lots of Predators, Helbrutes, and Maulerfiends.

I doubt too many people in my area will be buying 5-10 Riptides or anything but I can see some WAAC players in other areas doing it.

I'll still buy the book then decide if I want to keep playing or just paint.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The other thing to consider, as alarmingrick rather bitingly pointed out a number of pages back, is that there will be people who insist on playing Unbound yet still throw a fit at the thought of someone using a Forge World unit.

I don't think Unbound is a game mode. You can just either adhere to the FOC while army building, or not. If you use the FOC you get an army wide bonus. Your opponent will then play against you with just a giant Jetseer Council that generates 100 power dice a turn since you just add their mastery levels together.

That said, I do get what you're saying. People will never cease to be ignorant.

l0k1 wrote:I don't see many places allowing unbound armies.

Better start writing that tournament rules package. The list of what you will want to ban (superheavies, stupid forts, allies, d weapons, forgeworld units, unbound armies, dataslates, formations, etc.) will be as long as the actual rulebook. In fact, you should start working on 8th edition right away.

So it looks like the rumored breakdown is ballpark value is: $243 w/ current Meganob price, but more like $163 value, likely sold at $100.
Blood Angels (approx $70)
five scouts - $25.00
five blood angels - $30.00
a commander with jump pack - $15.00
Orks (approx $153, totally skewed by current meganob state, probably more like $70-80 value with new Ork edition models rumored to be new meganobz)
five meganobs - $110.00
10 armoured ork shootas including a nob with two-handed axe $30.00
10 gretchins $13.00
Nonmodel $20.00
scenery - $20.00
rulebook? - by description it sounds to be of no value.

BRB coming in at $100.

Box price likely won't change from $100, even in the absence of a complete use rule book.
I'd love to kick up a fuss, but my brain is so geeked up to see new Ork models I won't mind. Just need to convince a friend to get REALLY into blood angels.
My read of the note from WD attached implies that they know they goofed up in 2012.
As an Ork player I have been agitated about there not being a new codex until this rumor of the new edition.
Kind of glad they didn't go about screwing up Orks in the mix up. Sorry if other people feel the new edition pinch.
But I don't think there is a 40k player out there who isn't at list a little inspired by the idea of have a Meganob force.
So I hope people can find comfort in what sounds like a great box set.

 insaniak wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
So much negativity over such little information. .

It's almost as if, when you don't tell people what's going on, and then just trickle a little information out at a time, people may form negative opinions when they don't like what they're hearing...


It's a crazy, crazy world.

Nope - just the understanding (and same one by GW) that there is a branding effect and people will leave/come back/start new. It sucks to see GW continually dump on their 40k fanbase though.

Start a support group/web ring for no-longer supported games - Banhammer
3rd Party distributor who actually makes items you don't - Banhammer
Start a comic that is funny and based on pointy sticks - Banhammer
Start a website that actually promotes your game - Banhammer


I am not a chapter house fan, but when you get pushed around and then actually fight back - Banhammer; whoops - except they find out the hammer doesn't work so well anymore and are just turning over and trying to make as much money as possible as seen by their pricing schemes and non-loyalty to the FLGS who have supported them and made them what they are today (branding anyway).

First lets see the positives and negatives of this unbound and forged thing. I am interested but like so many others sitting on the edge of jumping off the GWEN ship...

 tyrannosaurus wrote:
I'm probably in a small minority in that I like the idea of unbound armies. I'm pretty much a painter and collector and only really see gaming as an excuse to use the miniatures I spent ages on and meet up with mates. Now I can include whatever I want from my collection without having to worry about restrictions, so I'm happy. Full titan army? Hell yeah!

What stopped you from doing this before?

insaniak wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
So much negativity over such little information. .

It's almost as if, when you don't tell people what's going on, and then just trickle a little information out at a time, people may form negative opions when they don't like what they're hearing...


It's a crazy, crazy world.

No, it's almost as though people are massively overreacting based on limited information.

Like they do every fething week when the "bad" model pics "leak" before we get the "leaks" of better pics and a whole ton of people calm down.

It's a "fool me once" scenario, if people are going to get up in arms every time there's partial information on a GW release and whip themselves into a frenzy over it, only to revise their opinion once more/better information becomes available, then at a certain point it ceases to be GW's fault.

TedNugent wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
So much negativity over such little information.

What's the worst outcome of the new info in relation to where we are now?
[...]

For the time being at least, we are aware of a handful of changes, with no idea how they fit into the broader fabric of the new ruleset.

It's already clear from what was revealed in the WD that the changes aren't what anyone was (fervently) suggesting, and they are utterly insane.

Unbound FOCs when they have grossly imbalanced units would require such ridiculous rules contrivances that it could only make it worse than what was already revealed. When I get my hands on this White Dwarf I expect there to be a stupidity vortex that forces me to roll on a Perils of the What chart.

So, just don't play Unbound?

Just like I currently don't play Apocalypse for the same reasons.

 the_Armyman wrote:
So, we've essentially changed the conversation from "This new edition will probably be 6.5 with minor tweaks, no need to panic!" to "We don't know how all these major changes will affect the game until we see the actual rulebook, no need to panic!"

We've decided to ignore the rather ridiculous idea of a 2 year rules cycle involving $100 BRBs and $50 Codices. But it's cool, no need to panic.

I've been playing this game for a mere 14 years, but I've seen the following disappear: GTs/RTTs, Games Day, bitz ordering, Outriders, respect for Independent Retailers, metal miniatures, unit entries from codices, White Dwarf, Black Gobbo, and on, and on..

GW has jumped the shark for me, fellas. The few friends I have left who still play 40K will be sticking with 6th Edition. I love the game, but my relationship with the company has to end at this point.

personal feelings on the new rules aside, the above makes me grumpy. the rather ridiculous idea of a 2 year rules cycle involving $100 BRBs and $50 Codices

I'm not looking to drop boat loads of cash every few years just on books

 the_Armyman wrote:


We've decided to ignore the rather ridiculous idea of a 2 year rules cycle involving $100 BRBs and $50 Codices. But it's cool, no need to panic.

Right there with you. I am having a difficult time mustering any sort of enthusiasm for this new edition and very may well suggest to my gaming group that we stay with 6th or come up with our own home rules.

Because if this becomes the new normal for GW's rules cycle then I want off this ride.

Call me a dinosaur but rules editions should last 4-6 years. Less than 2 years is a slap in the face.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 tyrannosaurus wrote:
I'm probably in a small minority in that I like the idea of unbound armies. I'm pretty much a painter and collector and only really see gaming as an excuse to use the miniatures I spent ages on and meet up with mates. Now I can include whatever I want from my collection without having to worry about restrictions, so I'm happy. Full titan army? Hell yeah!

What stopped you from doing this before?

The same thing that riles you up when people refuse Forgeworld.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 tyrannosaurus wrote:
I'm probably in a small minority in that I like the idea of unbound armies. I'm pretty much a painter and collector and only really see gaming as an excuse to use the miniatures I spent ages on and meet up with mates. Now I can include whatever I want from my collection without having to worry about restrictions, so I'm happy. Full titan army? Hell yeah!

What stopped you from doing this before?

Everyone knows you need GW's explicit permission to Forge the Narrative™. Gees.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:


We've decided to ignore the rather ridiculous idea of a 2 year rules cycle involving $100 BRBs and $50 Codices. But it's cool, no need to panic.

Right there with you. I am having a difficult time mustering any sort of enthusiasm for this new edition and very may well suggest to my gaming group that we stay with 6th or come up with our own home rules.

Because if this becomes the new normal for GW's rules cycle then I want off this ride.

Call me a dinosaur but rules editions should last 4-6 years. Less than 2 years is a slap in the face.

id atleast like to see all codices get updated to the current edition before a turn over to a new edition

 azreal13 wrote:


So, just don't play Unbound?

Just like I currently don't play Apocalypse for the same reasons.

Bro, they didn't say that you can just not play it. They said that you can take an Unbound army or a Battleforged (e.g. FOC-bound) army. I don't think this is like Apocalypse.

So one player could take a Battleforced army and the other player could take an Unbound army, the only difference is one side ignores FOC restrictions and the other gets special bonuses.

 ironicsilence wrote:


id atleast like to see all codices get updated to the current edition before a turn over to a new edition

Has never happened - maybe in RT/2ed days?

Happened in Fantasy before 6th ed? Ravening Hordes book put everyone on the same level for a little bit.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 tyrannosaurus wrote:
I'm probably in a small minority in that I like the idea of unbound armies. I'm pretty much a painter and collector and only really see gaming as an excuse to use the miniatures I spent ages on and meet up with mates. Now I can include whatever I want from my collection without having to worry about restrictions, so I'm happy. Full titan army? Hell yeah!

What stopped you from doing this before?

My gaming group are pretty rigid on things like the FOC - I was always up for chucking the FOC out of the window but playing against myself isn't fun. There's quite a lot of resistance to the direction 40k is heading - half of them refuse to play against anything with a D-weapon so I've only used my titan once. Now I've got the rules on my side...

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
So, noone else is a bit excited to see how will the game evolve thanks to unbound army ? My flgs tend to allow just everything when they organize a tournament, so I think unbound will be okay. I sense a LOT of fun coming!

Yea I really dislike the fact that everyone just thinks this will mean endless streams of players you have never met (and are FORCED to play with) fielding 10 riptides.

Look at Miniwargaming's recent narrative campaigns (which are, in my opinion, excellent). Nearly all of those missions threw the force org out the window, and it resulted in some really fluffy stuff (Tyranid scout force, Ork Air Force, etc.)

I get that people are annoyed, but to me this hobby is a lot like Dungeons and Dragons- with the wrong people, playing DnD is just about the worst thing you can do with your time. But with the right people, it's completely awesome.