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 MWHistorian wrote:

 spartanlegion wrote:
I think the "2 yearers" should take a break, or stick with 6th, in their gaming circles for about 2 years...

I can just see the "2 yearers" who are hesitant to buy this 7th edition (thinking the 2 years of 6th has set the standard for GW somehow for 7th editions shelf life), wait 2 years to see if 7th is still around, or 8th is coming, just to discover 7th is still going, and finally buy a 7th edition rule book.

Then they say, "Oh, I guess it is here to stay for awhile." but then 7th lasts 2 more years, making it 4 (God, I hope longer though), and the "2 yearers" cries rise again! "...It only lasted me 2 years!"

Why'd ya wait?

Also, if 8th comes out after 7th is out just 2 years, with the logic of the "2 yearers", 8th would last 2 years too.....So....

I don't see where anyone is making an argument for waiting for two years. You're arguing against something no one's said. At least to my knowledge. Why wait two years? If you like 7th, then get it. If you don't, then don't. If you want to wait and see, you can get a pretty accurate judgement after a month or so.
But, if 2 years is the new cycle, then yes, some people do have a problem with that. Some will suck it up and some will move away. At this stage in GW's game, they shouldn't be doing moves that push people away. They should be doing the opposite in fact.

Then we are in agreement.

Crazy Jay wrote:
Approciate the info, being new to the game, I'm still behind the info curve. Many thanks.

No problem. Here's the WD stuff that was posted yesterday:
http://talkwargaming.blogspot.com/2014/05/news-7th-edition-revealed.html
And the Daemonology page that was posted on Monday:
http://talkwargaming.blogspot.com/2014/05/news-daemonology-leaked.html

And that's all we got for now!

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Crazy Jay wrote:
Approciate the info, being new to the game, I'm still behind the info curve. Many thanks.

No problem. Here's the WD stuff that was posted yesterday:
http://talkwargaming.blogspot.com/2014/05/news-7th-edition-revealed.html
And the Daemonology page that was posted on Monday:
http://talkwargaming.blogspot.com/2014/05/news-daemonology-leaked.html

And that's all we got for now!

Daemonology is going to be crazy.*digging out old Daemon models.*

 Byte wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Crazy Jay wrote:
Approciate the info, being new to the game, I'm still behind the info curve. Many thanks.

No problem. Here's the WD stuff that was posted yesterday:
http://talkwargaming.blogspot.com/2014/05/news-7th-edition-revealed.html
And the Daemonology page that was posted on Monday:
http://talkwargaming.blogspot.com/2014/05/news-daemonology-leaked.html

And that's all we got for now!

Daemonology is going to be crazy.*digging out old Daemon models.*

Enjoy Perils on -any- Doubles when using it too!

 azreal13 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
Well, unless Tetrisphreak got annoyed by me reposting HIS pictures of HIS magazine via Photobucket because his hot links to his Dropbox account don't show up in posts (which, as he was aware I was doing it, I doubt) GW, or someone with too much time and a slightly unhealthy love for GW, have reported the images and they've been removed.

So, let us not forget that for every small improvement we may be seeing, there is still a an element that are massive, massive douches.

Good thing I backed them up then.
http://talkwargaming.blogspot.com/2014/05/news-7th-edition-revealed.html

Yeah, I've got them saved on my tablet and they're still up on the FB page I manage, but I'll be blowed if I can be arsed to set up another online account to host them somewhere else to post them here again.

imgur doesn't require an account, you just click the upload button and select the file.

It's nice to see that the wholesale pre-orders are up

I wonder if Demons will be immune to Perils, or just will only take them on double 6 even when using demonology.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I wonder if Demons will be immune to Perils, or just will only take them on double 6 even when using demonology.

They aren't immune now, are they?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I wonder if Demons will be immune to Perils, or just will only take them on double 6 even when using demonology.

I believe the blurb said that Chaos still perils on 6s for Daemonology in the WD, just everyone else perils on doubles

I do not think so. But the blurb said the risk/price was high for those that were not daemonspawn themselves or something to that effect.

[edit]Okay, so they can still Peril. I predict a lot of fun stuff can happen on a peril [/edit]

gorgon wrote:

Of course, it's also possible to pre-order or buy the new rulebook on the release day and be a reasonable human being using a reasonable, rational approach to their spending.

Personally, I see no way that a "wait and see" approach will help me decide if I like 7th edition. I need to read it, digest it, play it and find out for myself.

Nothing about the concept of preordering is rational. It can only burn a consumer. Your "guarantee" a product that will not be of short supply or fear of never restocking (in theory). More so when the product is site unseen.

The cost of the new rules is equal to the rules cost of three other games combined. That's nuts and not rational in the least. Given the track record in the quality of writing for GW in the past six to twelve months, couple with other poor business practices, it is much more rational to take a wait and see approach.

There will be scans, photos, battle reports, tactics talks and more the first month it's out. You can use this to make an informed purchase over that of an impulse. The latter if irrational, the former is rational.

There is too much evidence against paying full price, day eon, for this product by the rational sort. As others have implied, it's not about how much money you have, but how to spend it.

 TheKbob wrote:

gorgon wrote:

Of course, it's also possible to pre-order or buy the new rulebook on the release day and be a reasonable human being using a reasonable, rational approach to their spending.

Personally, I see no way that a "wait and see" approach will help me decide if I like 7th edition. I need to read it, digest it, play it and find out for myself.

Nothing about the concept of preordering is rational. It can only burn a consumer. Your "guarantee" a product that will not be of short supply or fear of never restocking (in theory). More so when the product is site unseen.

The cost of the new rules is equal to the rules cost of three other games combined. That's nuts and not rational in the least. Given the track record in the quality of writing for GW in the past six to twelve months, couple with other poor business practices, it is much more rational to take a wait and see approach.

There will be scans, photos, battle reports, tactics talks and more the first month it's out. You can use this to make an informed purchase over that of an impulse. The latter if irrational, the former is rational.

There is too much evidence against paying full price, day eon, for this product by the rational sort. As others have implied, it's not about how much money you have, but how to spend it.

From what GW has said, the biggest reason they do pre-orders is because there has been a huge demand for them in the past and they gave in an said "sure". Not that it really matters on anything other than maybe the Limited Editions as it lets you reserve those if you really badly want one.

EDIT: As for the cost of the rules, it's only slightly more nuts than it was for 6th. 6th cost $75 for the big rulebook, they added more to this one and bumped it up $10. Does that really make it okay? No, but I don't think GW is only just now getting nuts, they've been nuts for a long while now.

EDIT:
GW played by Michael Keaton:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 zammerak wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Maybe by "limited edition" they mean "We'll be changing editions really soon so its usefulness is limited?"

Nailed it!

At the end of the day 100$ is still less then most of my textbooks from school, and tbh I enjoy my brb far more than my management of people by people or filmstudies....

I'm actually going to try shopping for my textbooks online versus the college.

But yes, textbooks are friggin expensive and GW looks better than the nearly $200 books I buy to use for only a semester.

In the US textbooks are a tax write-off, nerd toys aren't....big difference. That and textbooks hopefully will equate into higher earnings which GW books won't. Not a great comparison if you're trying to be serious about it.

 Veriamp wrote:

Actually is it $100 for me, you know being Canadian and all. I still don't understand the massive 20% price difference between here and across the boarder, its like GW is living in the 90s.

I thought Zion was Canadian. I wonder why he put up American prices.

What I don't understand is how we have to pay more than Aussies for some prices. Maybe I saw it wrong, but I thought it was $400 for the Limited edition while Aussies were paying $340. Thing is how come we are paying cheaper for the rule book than the Aussies but they get it chapter for the Limited edition. GW logic I guess.

I also wonder if there will be e-versions for these cards. If there is, I wonder if they shuffle by them selves as well and make them random to choose from.

 agnosto wrote:

In the US textbooks are a tax write-off, nerd toys aren't....big difference. That and textbooks hopefully will equate into higher earnings which GW books won't. Not a great comparison if you're trying to be serious about it.

That write off doesn't help during the year when your "job" is "full time student" though. The point was the cost for GW's books is lower than what I pay for my textbooks and I can use them longer (unless GW goes to a 4 month edition plan that is).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Davor wrote:
I thought Zion was Canadian. I wonder why he put up American prices.

The flag next to my name changes when I'm at the college versus home. I'm an American (no, I'm not proud of that fact either).

 TheKbob wrote:

gorgon wrote:

Of course, it's also possible to pre-order or buy the new rulebook on the release day and be a reasonable human being using a reasonable, rational approach to their spending.

Personally, I see no way that a "wait and see" approach will help me decide if I like 7th edition. I need to read it, digest it, play it and find out for myself.

Nothing about the concept of preordering is rational. It can only burn a consumer. Your "guarantee" a product that will not be of short supply or fear of never restocking (in theory). More so when the product is site unseen.

The cost of the new rules is equal to the rules cost of three other games combined. That's nuts and not rational in the least. Given the track record in the quality of writing for GW in the past six to twelve months, couple with other poor business practices, it is much more rational to take a wait and see approach.

There will be scans, photos, battle reports, tactics talks and more the first month it's out. You can use this to make an informed purchase over that of an impulse. The latter if irrational, the former is rational.

There is too much evidence against paying full price, day eon, for this product by the rational sort. As others have implied, it's not about how much money you have, but how to spend it.

Well, there are a lot of opinions there but not one effective rebuttal of any of my points. There's nothing irrational about immediately buying something you can easily afford when you know you a) will want to try it for yourself and b) will be giving it a try immediately.

Not everyone who disagrees with your OPINIONS is irrational, and I think you're flirting with breaking rule number 1 by suggesting it.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 agnosto wrote:

In the US textbooks are a tax write-off, nerd toys aren't....big difference. That and textbooks hopefully will equate into higher earnings which GW books won't. Not a great comparison if you're trying to be serious about it.

That write off doesn't help during the year when your "job" is "full time student" though. The point was the cost for GW's books is lower than what I pay for my textbooks and I can use them longer (unless GW goes to a 4 month edition plan that is).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Davor wrote:
I thought Zion was Canadian. I wonder why he put up American prices.

The flag next to my name changes when I'm at the college versus home. I'm an American (no, I'm not proud of that fact either).

I thought you had the same problem as me. My flag shows up Canadian, but sometimes shows up as an American. Well since we are not Canadain brothers, we are North American brothers then.

So now with 7th coming, is 8th edition being worked on to come out in 18 months? I am joking but being serious here. I mean how much effort did they really put into this?

Anyone hear about FAQs? Will the codices (especially Tyranid) be updated? Will we get an update for the 6th edition BRB? Reason I ask is if it's a totally new edition, how come DV is not being discontinued?

 undertow wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Wound allocation still from the front makes sad panda.

I disagree, front-first removal was one of my favorite changes.

I'm just curious, would you rather go back to 'owner chooses' or have some other system of removal (random for example)? I though the elimination of wound shenanigans based around differently equipped models was a great change.

Maybe the best compromise would be allow the owner to choose which model, but once a wound is allocated all others need to go to that model.

Pretty much - my preferred system is owner chooses, with the requirement to keep allocating to a model once it is wounded to avoid wound-spreading shenanigans. Add in Precision Shots and Torrent of Fire to allow for a little wound control from the shooter, and you're gravy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Happygrunt wrote:
Hold on a second. There is a "Dark Millennium" book in the 7th ed slipcase, however you can also buy a "dark millennium" book individually online.

Am I seeing this right? Is it possible that purchasing individual books may be possible through GW directly?

The stand-alone book is 'Visions from the Dark Millennium'... different from the Dark Millennium book in the rulebook bundle. It will be either an artbook, or a hardcover catalogue of the studio 40K models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 undertow wrote:

I'm hoping there's a change to allow psychic shooting to be used for Overwatch.

Given the movement of psychic powers out into their own phase, that seems unlikely. Psychic Shooting Attacks as we know them are gone.

Davor wrote:
Will we get an update for the 6th edition BRB? Reason I ask is if it's a totally new edition, how come DV is not being discontinued?

Yes, there'll be a free FAQ to update the 6th Rulebook.
DV will remain. In the Rulebook there's a tiny red box telling us the future DV boxes will come with the updated mini rulebook.

 MWHistorian wrote:

 spartanlegion wrote:
I think the "2 yearers" should take a break, or stick with 6th, in their gaming circles for about 2 years...

I can just see the "2 yearers" who are hesitant to buy this 7th edition (thinking the 2 years of 6th has set the standard for GW somehow for 7th editions shelf life), wait 2 years to see if 7th is still around, or 8th is coming, just to discover 7th is still going, and finally buy a 7th edition rule book.

Then they say, "Oh, I guess it is here to stay for awhile." but then 7th lasts 2 more years, making it 4 (God, I hope longer though), and the "2 yearers" cries rise again! "...It only lasted me 2 years!"

Why'd ya wait?

Also, if 8th comes out after 7th is out just 2 years, with the logic of the "2 yearers", 8th would last 2 years too.....So....

I don't see where anyone is making an argument for waiting for two years. You're arguing against something no one's said. At least to my knowledge. Why wait two years? If you like 7th, then get it. If you don't, then don't. If you want to wait and see, you can get a pretty accurate judgement after a month or so.
But, if 2 years is the new cycle, then yes, some people do have a problem with that. Some will suck it up and some will move away. At this stage in GW's game, they shouldn't be doing moves that push people away. They should be doing the opposite in fact.

Arguing over this is pointless. There are lots of people that become attached to things to such a degree that they become almost monomaniacal and snobbish. This can be especially the case in our geek/nerd subculture. "Don't like everything about X...leave." "You didn't start watching until the X season...your opinion is invalid." "You didn't have a team of people using computers to get the tickets to the Con....loser." "You didn't get the limited, faux leather, golden foil embossed edition that has a sticker with a number on the cover...you're not a real fan." "You didn't like the game after the last edition and are wary of the next edition...a pox on you and your house!"

These are just slight exaggerations. (in truth several of them are things that I have actually heard) This is indeed the customer that is the focus of GW's marketing structure and they seem to be pinning their hopes of a good financial report on these people. As garnering enough new customers in a period of two weeks to offset an extended period of poor performance would be an impossibility. You don't get someone who was deliberating buying something to commit by raising the price, changing the product and giving them a few more years to make a decision.

The fact is, it took a little while for the last edition to get past the "new/shiny" phase and people began to get into actual game play. Within a year, after a few codexes came out, the issues became more apparent if not magnified. Many problems were never fixed by the game designers at all (challenge rules not making sense, are ruins area terrain, etc.). It was at about that year point that I stopped playing and began looking for something else to do.

From the looks of things that I have seen or are purported, I am less than hopeful that things have improved, merely changed. I am going to be among those that will be waiting to see how things shake out before I make any purchases. If I waited as long as two years and a new one did or didn't come out what have I lost...nothing. It's not as though I'm sitting in a box all alone with nothing else to do.

 Vector Strike wrote:

Davor wrote:
Will we get an update for the 6th edition BRB? Reason I ask is if it's a totally new edition, how come DV is not being discontinued?

Yes, there'll be a free FAQ to update the 6th Rulebook.

Uh...source?

 Vector Strike wrote:

Davor wrote:
Will we get an update for the 6th edition BRB? Reason I ask is if it's a totally new edition, how come DV is not being discontinued?

Yes, there'll be a free FAQ to update the 6th Rulebook.
DV will remain. In the Rulebook there's a tiny red box telling us the future DV boxes will come with the updated mini rulebook.

Do you have a source for this?

Edit: Never mind.

 Jaceevoke wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:

Davor wrote:
Will we get an update for the 6th edition BRB? Reason I ask is if it's a totally new edition, how come DV is not being discontinued?

Yes, there'll be a free FAQ to update the 6th Rulebook.
DV will remain. In the Rulebook there's a tiny red box telling us the future DV boxes will come with the updated mini rulebook.

Do you have a source for this?

I believe he was being sarcastic

 ClockworkZion wrote:
That write off doesn't help during the year when your "job" is "full time student" though. The point was the cost for GW's books is lower than what I pay for my textbooks and I can use them longer (unless GW goes to a 4 month edition plan that is).

I understand your point but I disagree with it in that textbooks have added, pecuniary benefits as they ultimately lead to a degree which, ideally, will result in higher job earnings. Ideally, the knowledge that you gain from using your textbooks in conjunction with the class will yield benefits throughout your life while GW books...not so much.

I'm a full-time grad student with a full-time job so the tax savings is important to me. Without knowing you personally, I would have no idea if this would be the case for you as well. You can also resell textbooks for nearer to what you paid for them than GW books (as there is no collector value in GW books). Alternatively, you can rent textbooks and unlike GW e-books, e-textbooks are generally much cheaper than their physical counterparts.

Again, not a good comparison as the books serve different purposes. A better comparison would be between GW books and other game manufacturers which, as you probably know, would not put GW in a good light.

 Jaceevoke wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:

Davor wrote:
Will we get an update for the 6th edition BRB? Reason I ask is if it's a totally new edition, how come DV is not being discontinued?

Yes, there'll be a free FAQ to update the 6th Rulebook.
DV will remain. In the Rulebook there's a tiny red box telling us the future DV boxes will come with the updated mini rulebook.

Do you have a source for this?

 Sir Arun wrote:

 Jaceevoke wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:

Davor wrote:
Will we get an update for the 6th edition BRB? Reason I ask is if it's a totally new edition, how come DV is not being discontinued?

Yes, there'll be a free FAQ to update the 6th Rulebook.
DV will remain. In the Rulebook there's a tiny red box telling us the future DV boxes will come with the updated mini rulebook.

Do you have a source for this?

I believe he was being sarcastic

Ah in that case my apologies.

Edit - @ Zweischneid I wasn't questioning whether or not DV was remaining but if there would be a "Free" FAQ for the sixth rulebook.

 Vector Strike wrote:

Davor wrote:
Will we get an update for the 6th edition BRB? Reason I ask is if it's a totally new edition, how come DV is not being discontinued?

Yes, there'll be a free FAQ to update the 6th Rulebook.
DV will remain. In the Rulebook there's a tiny red box telling us the future DV boxes will come with the updated mini rulebook.

I very much doubt that.

 Jaceevoke wrote:


Edit - @ Zweischneid I wasn't questioning whether or not DV was remaining but if there would be a "Free" FAQ for the sixth rulebook.

Yeah. Thought so after a closer read

Sorry.

No, got no source on the "free FAQ".

 Jaceevoke wrote:

Edit - @ Zweischneid I wasn't questioning whether or not DV was remaining but if there would be a "Free" FAQ for the sixth rulebook.

In recent memory, GW has never done this; once they leave an edition, it's dead to them and no longer supported. We were all pleasantly surprised when the armies received FAQs when 6th came around.