40k 7th Edition release 24th may - All info in 1st post, psychic power cards added (5/21)

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**loki old fart**

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Sir Arun wrote:
also, new pics of the individual books are up on the GW site. the verdict remains: worst rulebook cover design ever:

No, it is awesome: no marine!

ClockworkZion wrote:
I have a feeling the change really will be 1 HQ, 1 Troop and then everything else comes in "detachments". That sounds like GW's way of rolling. Sure you have to have a second troop choice, it's just part of one of the detachments.

Or the WD made a typo again.

Or you just misread the article? I mean, the only part speaking about one troop choice was about some unbound dark angel army.

I love how GW makes it crystal-clear how much they do not care about each player having a chance of winning!

You don't need a troop choice at all

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

loki old fart wrote:
You don't need a troop choice at all

For battleforged army, you do. You need two, actually. For unbound, you do not need one, but the guy from the article says he will field one, and only one: a unit of scouts.

**Nostromodamus**

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Sir Arun wrote:
also, new pics of the individual books are up on the GW site. the verdict remains: worst rulebook cover design ever:

No, it is awesome: no marine!

ClockworkZion wrote:
I have a feeling the change really will be 1 HQ, 1 Troop and then everything else comes in "detachments". That sounds like GW's way of rolling. Sure you have to have a second troop choice, it's just part of one of the detachments.

Or the WD made a typo again.

Or you just misread the article? I mean, the only part speaking about one troop choice was about some unbound dark angel army.

I love how GW makes it crystal-clear how much they do not care about each player having a chance of winning!

I just re-read the article, and he's clearly talking about the FOC for a Battle Forged army when he refers to requiring only 1 Troop choice.

**Seaward**

loki old fart wrote:
Copied from white dwarf

It’s worth pondering exactly what the line ‘whichever units from your collections that you
want’ means, however. Your collection may, of course, include all manner of units from all
manner of armies. So, yes, this means you can simply play a game of Warhammer 40,000
with an army as random and diverse as you want. You could have Space Marine Sternguard
Veterans, a Bloodthirster of Khorne, a Tyranid Exocrine, a Tau Riptide Battlesuit and a unit of
Eldar Guardians as your army. That’s a very silly and extreme example, and you certainly
won’t be very popular with your opponents, and we think you’ll find that going radically ‘offpiste’
with theme and background makes for far, far less compelling games and battlefield
storytelling. In fact, what makes the Unbound method really exciting is that it allows you to
tell the stories that you want to tell, and really drill down into a theme. Let me explain by way
of my Tyranids: Hive Fleet Eumenides is currently rapidly adapting in response to the
resistance it’s encountering in the form of Imperial Knights. As such, when it goes to war
these days it’s funnelling its energies towards a specific purpose: felling giant vehicles. My
Unbound theme, then, is a host of myriad bioforms awash with Haywire weapons: Hive
Guard with shockcannons, Hive Crones with tentaclids, and Tervigons, Tyrannofexes and
Hive Tyrants bred with the electroshock grub thorax swarm. It’s a highly specialised army (no
Troops whatsoever!) that will be next to useless against certain forces, but it’s emblematic of
how the Hive Mind works, and it really lets me unfold a particular narrative (the Tyranids are
fighting back against Imperial Knights!) by picking exactly the monsters I want to use.

You've got to be fething kidding me.

Yeah, that's it. Anybody who buys this gak? You've got only yourselves to blame.

**Puscifer**

I hope that 1 troops choice is correct. That helps my army out immensely.

**Bangbangboom**

Perfect Organism wrote:

The only really desirable cross-faction transport combos I can think of are daemons in landraiders and eldar infantry in dark eldar vehicles, both of which seem fairly justifiable and not too powerful.

Orks in anything they damn well please?

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

Alex C wrote:
I just re-read the article, and he's clearly talking about the FOC for a Battle Forged army when he refers to requiring only 1 Troop choice.

Where? How? Can you please quote?
At least in the dark angel part, it is about an unbound army.
“[…]Unbound army […] will allow me to focus […] on […] Ravenwing. […] (I do not have that freedom in a battleforged army list […] in many games I will play in the future, the only troop choice in my army will be a squad of Scouts.[…]It is a wonderful example of the things the Unbound method allows you to do. Of course, the Battle-forged method [something completely different]”

Spoiler:

**Nostromodamus**

Here:

"Battle Forged armies use the Force Organisation Chart you know and love from previous editions of Warhammer 40,000. You'll need 1 HQ and 1 Troops choice"

From the WD scan on page 209 of this thread.

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

Okay, I was looking at the wrong place. He is lying though: it is not the FOC we know then

.
tAnd also, it is explicitly contradicting the FOC we see on http://youtu.be/7JnMByJVUow?t=1m6s , so I am going to say it is a typo.

**TedNugent**

I sincerely hope that those of you who were saying "wait and see" wait until this aberration is reviewed before you buy it.

The entire definition of a preorder is contrary to the idea of "wait and see," so I hope you're not doing that.

Please don't forget that they are putting the rulebooks in Dark Vengeance and therefore it should be available a la carte on Ebay eventually.

**tetrisphreak**

Alex C wrote:
Here:

"Battle Forged armies use the Force Organisation Chart you know and love from previous editions of Warhammer 40,000. You'll need 1 HQ and 1 Troops choice"

From the WD scan on page 209 of this thread.

He is referring to "at least" 1 troop and HQ because that is what an ally detachment requires. The combined arms FOC has already been shown and it still has 2 troops minimum.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Brachiaraidos wrote:

Did you ever hear of this thing called aiming? If it's not at the point where you are literally linking arms in a grapple with someone, picking out a guy and the guy several feet away isn't hard. Unless you have a comrade between said target and yourself.

You will notice that all the special forces response teams which do things like storm embassies and work their way through any other buildings all bring guns, and all use them indoors. They may have melee options available, but I'd struggle to find an example of them ever being used in deference to the firearm they're carrying.

Even with aiming it's still very much possible to shoot your fellow soldiers in close quarters, due to weapon spread, the fact they keep moving, ect ect.

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

Oh, yeah. So, at low point level, one can play an allied detachment as the only detachment. Could be interesting if your only troop unit is a deathstar.

**Spoletta**

Sorry you can't, you always need at least 2 troops.
If you are battleforged you have a warlord.
If you have a warlord you have a primary detachment.
If you have a primary detachment you need 2 troops.

**Paradigm**

By the look of it, not only can you run just an allied detachment, but even if you do take allied+Combined Arms, your warlord can be in either (it only says that your primary is determined by which army your Warlord is from, implying you can choose).

I suppose there's a precendent for that with C:Inq allowing 'allied' Warlords.

**Chrysis**

Paradigm wrote:
By the look of it, not only can you run just an allied detachment, but even if you do take allied+Combined Arms, your warlord can be in either (it only says that your primary is determined by which army your Warlord is from, implying you can choose).

I suppose there's a precendent for that with C:Inq allowing 'allied' Warlords.

Except that we've seen the rules for the Allied Detachment, and it includes that the Warlord cannot be from that detachment and it cannot be the Primary Detachment.

**Paradigm**

Chrysis wrote:
Paradigm wrote:
By the look of it, not only can you run just an allied detachment, but even if you do take allied+Combined Arms, your warlord can be in either (it only says that your primary is determined by which army your Warlord is from, implying you can choose).

I suppose there's a precendent for that with C:Inq allowing 'allied' Warlords.

Except that we've seen the rules for the Allied Detachment, and it includes that the Warlord cannot be from that detachment and it cannot be the Primary Detachment.

Ah, must have missed that.

**Perfect Organism**

Bangbangboom wrote:
Perfect Organism wrote:

The only really desirable cross-faction transport combos I can think of are daemons in landraiders and eldar infantry in dark eldar vehicles, both of which seem fairly justifiable and not too powerful.

Orks in anything they damn well please?

Oh, good Gork! I've just realised that I might be able to do the looted stormraven I've been thinking of ever since I first saw the model.

**bubber**

I just want to know if you have to fork out another £14 for the 2 decks of card to be able to play this new version...

**Shandara**

bubber wrote:
I just want to know if you have to fork out another £14 for the 2 decks of card to be able to play this new version...

Likely to be in the rulebook, ready for copying (for personal use).

**Azreal13**

bubber wrote:
I just want to know if you have to fork out another £14 for the 2 decks of card to be able to play this new version...

The psychic powers are all in the 6th book, we've seen screen grabs of the Daemonology page from the book, so it's reasonable to assume the rest are in there.

We've seen the SO chart (or parts of it) as a D66 table too, so again, reasonable to assume that the cards are a convenience rather than a necessity.

I bought the Psychic Deck for 6th because I found it for a good price, but seldom use it, so won't be bothering with that, I'll prolly get a few games under my belt before deciding in the objective cards, I can see them helping with housekeeping mid game.

**tetrisphreak**

Shandara wrote:
bubber wrote:
I just want to know if you have to fork out another £14 for the 2 decks of card to be able to play this new version...

Likely to be in the rulebook, ready for copying (for personal use).

Without the deck you roll a d66 (tens, ones) for each objective and write them down. So no the deck isn't necessary but I'm definitely getting one for ease and time saving.

**alphaecho**

azreal13 wrote:
[I bought the Psychic Deck for 6th because I found it for a good price, but seldom use it, so won't be bothering with that, I'll prolly get a few games under my belt before deciding in the objective cards, I can see them helping with housekeeping mid game.

The guy who runs my FLGS has only been allocated two sets of Objective Cards (compared to ten Rulebook sets) and the GW rep "couldn't" (or wouldn't) confirm if the cards were "while stocks last" or not.

That doesn't mean they're limited and the GW website doesn't indicate that they are but its something to bear in mind.

**Azreal13**

Good to know, thanks, but I won't lose too much sleep over it, it might well be that once the book has landed and we have the full picture that it will become the "alternate" format and most players stick with standard missions, if it's popular but I find myself having to roll dice and write things down. *shrug*

**H.B.M.C.**

I bought the psychic deck (and all the psychic cards since) because I thought they'd be a great resource. Now they're invalidated. Feth that noise.

**Azreal13**

Honestly dude, I'm going to PM Lego and get him to change your username to Eeyore!

**H.B.M.C.**

Oh bother!

**Vector Strike**

undertow wrote:I've heard people mention on other sites that FMCs won't be able to charge until the turn after they land. Has anyone else seen this or gotten any confirmation?

This would be awesome! Fits with the new hardship in trying to ground them. On the other hand, shooty FMCs won't land

**Sidstyler**

Seaward wrote:
loki old fart wrote:
Copied from white dwarf

It’s worth pondering exactly what the line ‘whichever units from your collections that you
want’ means, however. Your collection may, of course, include all manner of units from all
manner of armies. So, yes, this means you can simply play a game of Warhammer 40,000
with an army as random and diverse as you want. You could have Space Marine Sternguard
Veterans, a Bloodthirster of Khorne, a Tyranid Exocrine, a Tau Riptide Battlesuit and a unit of
Eldar Guardians as your army. That’s a very silly and extreme example, and you certainly
won’t be very popular with your opponents, and we think you’ll find that going radically ‘offpiste’
with theme and background makes for far, far less compelling games and battlefield
storytelling. In fact, what makes the Unbound method really exciting is that it allows you to
tell the stories that you want to tell, and really drill down into a theme. Let me explain by way
of my Tyranids: Hive Fleet Eumenides is currently rapidly adapting in response to the
resistance it’s encountering in the form of Imperial Knights. As such, when it goes to war
these days it’s funnelling its energies towards a specific purpose: felling giant vehicles. My
Unbound theme, then, is a host of myriad bioforms awash with Haywire weapons: Hive
Guard with shockcannons, Hive Crones with tentaclids, and Tervigons, Tyrannofexes and
Hive Tyrants bred with the electroshock grub thorax swarm. It’s a highly specialised army (no
Troops whatsoever!) that will be next to useless against certain forces, but it’s emblematic of
how the Hive Mind works, and it really lets me unfold a particular narrative (the Tyranids are
fighting back against Imperial Knights!) by picking exactly the monsters I want to use.

You've got to be fething kidding me.

Yeah, that's it. Anybody who buys this gak? You've got only yourselves to blame.

I like how when GW actually takes the time to clarify something, it's this stupid gak. Not the myriad of issues we had before, no, but the meaning of what exactly "everything in your collection" means.

**ClockworkZion**

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Or you just misread the article? I mean, the only part speaking about one troop choice was about some unbound dark angel army.

Please tell me how I misread this:

Since it's a bit fuzzy let me transcribe the part in question for you from my copy (empahasis mine):

White Dwarf 16, Page 22, Second Paragraph wrote:Battle-forged armies use the Force Organisation chart you know and love from the previous editions of Warhammer 40,000. You'll need to take at least one HQ and one Troops choice, and use Detachments. There are two types of Detachments - Combined Arms and Allied - and your Primary Detachment will be the one with your Warlord in it.

Now how did I misread that exactly?

EDIT: I see it's already been covered now, but I'm still leaving this up just in case anyone else missed the page.