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IG Psyker squads might be useful now with the addition of summoning.

Diablix wrote:
I'd see as an act of heroism: "I think I can slain by myself, so let's kill the beast before it eats some of my brother in arms".

Or just think of a Chaos Warlord. Really. Can you imagine Abaddon, the strongest, baddest and brutal "mortal" being in the whole galaxy hide behind 5 Justaerin Terminators?
Really? And he would expect to run a Black Crusade after that, maybe?

Honestly I believe that the "MUST challenge" rule for Chaos makes perfectly sense, fluss-wise. Yes, from a game perspective is never nice to "lose" control, but how I said, it would be stupid to see a mighty Warlord hide behind his subjects or refuse the opportunity to glorify himself to the eyes of the chaos gods.

Maybe it would be nicer to see the rule valid only for HQ characters (a tactical aspirant champion is not really that powerful/important) and a really bigger malus if you deny, more than being forced. But then we'd be talking about codices, not the BRB

It makes sense for Abaddon, it makes no sense for a Chaos sorcerer.
And I can't see Calgar or Draigo scurrying behind their bodyguard to avoid single combat either, yet normal space marines have no such rule.

I just took a closer look at the Munitorum box set (The Psychic Power card, to be specific) and it looks like it's +3 Strength/Toughness and grants the Smash special rule.

So, Daemon Princes are no longer Eternal Warrior, at least? Just need to get a Force Weapon that won't die before it gets to swing that can also hurt T8.

Crazyterran wrote:
I just took a closer look at the Munitorum box set (The Psychic Power card, to be specific) and it looks like it's +3 Strength/Toughness and grants the Smash special rule.

So, Daemon Princes are no longer Eternal Warrior, at least? Just need to get a Force Weapon that won't die before it gets to swing that can also hurt T8.

Nice catch. Bit of a nerf for MC but on your average Sorcerer or BA Librarian that's a handy buff. Assuming Smash hasn't changed in some form or another a Sorcerer with a Force Mace would be Strength 9 AP2 attacking at Initiative. It does look like it is Warp Charge 1 so it isn't that difficult to cast I'd imagine though if I was your opponent and likely to get assaulted by that guy I might do my level best to stop that.

Crazyterran wrote:
I just took a closer look at the Munitorum box set (The Psychic Power card, to be specific) and it looks like it's +3 Strength/Toughness and grants the Smash special rule.

Is that the new Biomancy Iron Arm?

So, Daemon Princes are no longer Eternal Warrior, at least? Just need to get a Force Weapon that won't die before it gets to swing that can also hurt T8.

AFAIK, there's only one Pince that has EW... that's Bela'kor. (might be getting my books mixed up)

So lemme get this straight...Inquisitor Coteaz from the Grey Knights codex cannot summon Daemons, but Inquisitor Coteaz from the Inquisition codex can summon Daemons?

 whembly wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:
I just took a closer look at the Munitorum box set (The Psychic Power card, to be specific) and it looks like it's +3 Strength/Toughness and grants the Smash special rule.

Is that the new Biomancy Iron Arm?

So, Daemon Princes are no longer Eternal Warrior, at least? Just need to get a Force Weapon that won't die before it gets to swing that can also hurt T8.

AFAIK, there's only one Pince that has EW... that's Bela'kor. (might be getting my books mixed up)

Aye but Daemon Princes could pick up EW from Iron Arm.

 whembly wrote:

AFAIK, there's only one Pince that has EW... that's Bela'kor. (might be getting my books mixed up)

That's correct, Daemon Princes lost eternal warrior in the new codexes for 6th in both daemon and marine flavours.

 Voodoo_Chile wrote:

Diablix wrote:

Bah, honestly I don't get this.
I can't see why Ahriman or any ML3 Chaos Sorcerer should have more troubles in summoning daemons than a pathetic ML1 Herald. It just doesn't make sense to me.
Hope they'll fix that with specific FAQs for Chaos Sorcerers

In fairness the same argument could be said for Santic powers and the likes of Inquisitors from Codex Inquisition.

Yes it's, true, Ordo Malleus Inquisitors should not be any worse than any GK psyker in Santic powers (however at least GK have the excuse of being the very best and most thoroughly tested amongs the best genetically engineered warriors in the galaxy, while Inquisitors are just the best amongst "ordinary" men). I just did not think of them.

And a ML1 Herald knows infinitely more about the warp than any human. It does however give a Sorcerer from the Crimson Slaughter Supplement with the Prophet of the Voices relic a bit of an upgrade as he will now get a buff to summoning Daemons.

Maybe, but it does not have even nearly the same amount of power of Ahriman (which I wouldn't exactly just define "a human". Come on, 10 000 years old genetically engineered superhuman psyker with the favour of the god of magic is.... a human?)
Come on, rule-wise being ML4 Ahriman as a Psyker is stronger than any daemon bar the Fateweaver himself. Should he be afraid of summoning a pink horror or two?

The same is true for any other Chaos Sorcerer. They are nearly immortal superhuman psyker who spend all their spare time in the Eye of Terror itself. Really, most of them have had their last ten thousand breakfasts in a maddening realm between alluring daemonettes and flesh-eating spawns.
I believe the all doubles Perils of the Warp thing represent the temptation of daemons and the risk of damning their soul forever. Well, they are accustomed to the former, and already lost the latter.

Wait - How did Daemon Princes get eternal warrior from Iron arm? Am I missing something?

Edit: With regards to this "doubles is always perils" stuff, It would make more sense for any Psyker with a mark of chaos to be able to AVOID this particular downside if he was summoning daemons associated with this mark. No?
I mean, that might leave a bit Khorne out of favour but why would my Emperor's Children Sorcerer be worried about summoning some Daemonettes? Come on, that is silly.

 Voodoo_Chile wrote:

Spoiler:

 whembly wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:
I just took a closer look at the Munitorum box set (The Psychic Power card, to be specific) and it looks like it's +3 Strength/Toughness and grants the Smash special rule.

Is that the new Biomancy Iron Arm?

So, Daemon Princes are no longer Eternal Warrior, at least? Just need to get a Force Weapon that won't die before it gets to swing that can also hurt T8.

AFAIK, there's only one Pince that has EW... that's Bela'kor. (might be getting my books mixed up)

Aye but Daemon Princes could pick up EW from Iron Arm.

Oh ouch I missed the bit where this was talking about the new iron arm, still it's not exactly a regular occurrence to end up in CC with a force weapon at the minute against most armies, will have to see how many there are post update, would be interested to see if you could just throw denial dice at force weapons and stop them activating with the new mechanics.

I missed a weekend's worth of posts.

Was there a page confirming Snap Shots at -2 BS instead of 1 BS default?

My GK army is eager to see what powers are on the Sanctic tree though

Crazyterran wrote:
I just took a closer look at the Munitorum box set (The Psychic Power card, to be specific) and it looks like it's +3 Strength/Toughness and grants the Smash special rule.
So, Daemon Princes are no longer Eternal Warrior, at least? Just need to get a Force Weapon that won't die before it gets to swing that can also hurt T8.

Consistent T8 is definitely nicer than T6-8, though losing EW obviously hurts.

Great Unclean One consistently at T10? Yes please!

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
I missed a weekend's worth of posts.

Was there a page confirming Snap Shots at -2 BS instead of 1 BS default?

My GK army is eager to see what powers are on the Sanctic tree though

Nothing more than what we had before the weekend.

I *believe* someone said they thought that rumor started at 4chan.

 Mij'aan wrote:
Wait - How did Daemon Princes get eternal warrior from Iron arm? Am I missing something?

Edit: With regards to this "doubles is always perils" stuff, It would make more sense for any Psyker with a mark of chaos to be able to AVOID this particular downside if he was summoning daemons associated with this mark. No?
I mean, that might leave a bit Khorne out of favour but why would my Emperor's Children Sorcerer be worried about summoning some Daemonettes? Come on, that is silly.

Iron Arm currently grants D3 Strength and Toughness and the Eternal Warrior special rule. Daemon Princes of all varieties get access to Biomancy.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
I missed a weekend's worth of posts.

Was there a page confirming Snap Shots at -2 BS instead of 1 BS default?

No... probably we'll only discover anything about that when the book arrives.

Crazyterran wrote:

 Mij'aan wrote:
Wait - How did Daemon Princes get eternal warrior from Iron arm? Am I missing something?

Edit: With regards to this "doubles is always perils" stuff, It would make more sense for any Psyker with a mark of chaos to be able to AVOID this particular downside if he was summoning daemons associated with this mark. No?
I mean, that might leave a bit Khorne out of favour but why would my Emperor's Children Sorcerer be worried about summoning some Daemonettes? Come on, that is silly.

Iron Arm currently grants D3 Strength and Toughness and the Eternal Warrior special rule. Daemon Princes of all varieties get access to Biomancy.

Heh, didn't even notice it granted Eternal Warrior. Not come across it that much since tyranids no longer have access to it.

 Vector Strike wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
I missed a weekend's worth of posts.

Was there a page confirming Snap Shots at -2 BS instead of 1 BS default?

No... probably we'll only discover anything about that when the book arrives.

Yea, figured as much.

Must pre-order if its not too late.

Maybe, but it does not have even nearly the same amount of power of Ahriman (which I wouldn't exactly just define "a human". Come on, 10 000 years old genetically engineered superhuman psyker with the favour of the god of magic is.... a human?)
Come on, rule-wise being ML4 Ahriman as a Psyker is stronger than any daemon bar the Fateweaver himself. Should he be afraid of summoning a pink horror or two?

My apologies, I didn't intend to demean Ahriman as he is certainly one of the most power mortal Pyskers but what I'm getting at is that any Daemon will understand the nature of the warp far more than any non-Daemon. Mortals will always be on the outside looking in and this represents the difficulty of that. I would like CSM to get some sort of buff to Maleficarum but I'd prefer it to be in the form of a Cultist altar or rituals. Also we don't know how the "Spell Familer" will be FAQd if at all and even in it's current for it could be quite beneficial. On top of that the Black Staff of Ahriman will definitely need an FAQ as it wont be doing anything in the new edition.

 Mij'aan wrote:
Wait - How did Daemon Princes get eternal warrior from Iron arm? Am I missing something?

Edit: With regards to this "doubles is always perils" stuff, It would make more sense for any Psyker with a mark of chaos to be able to AVOID this particular downside if he was summoning daemons associated with this mark. No?
I mean, that might leave a bit Khorne out of favour but why would my Emperor's Children Sorcerer be worried about summoning some Daemonettes? Come on, that is silly.

Yeah the 6th Ed version of Iron Arm gave +D3 Strength and Toughness and Eternal Warrior, pg 419 of the Big Rulebook.

Its release is this Saturday, the 24th. So firm information will follow next week.

We should start seeing rulebook pics from Wed/Thurs

 Vector Strike wrote:
Reading the FOC rules pages, looks like there are no need for Double FOC rules, as you can pick any number of detachments... so, if I understand it correctly, you can have an army with all but HQs and Troops? 3 combined armies detachments, giving you 6 HQs and potentially 18 Troops (not even using allies)

I can't find that page scan again, but I am pretty sure there was also talk about "Primary Detachments" and such. So it may not be possible to take mroe than 1 Combined Arms detachments.

It also seems that you can take a formation, but any troops in the formation will *not* have Objective Secured special rule.

Pedro Kantor wrote:
Its release is this Saturday, the 24th. So firm information will follow next week.

You can bet sure money on someone getting an advance copy a few days before the actual release, that has been the case with nearly any codex we've had for a while now. I'd say we'll start getting solid info on Thursday.

So my Psychic Power cards are out of date too...? Great. Note to self: don't buy any of the optional stuff, even if it seems like a bargain.

 Ian Sturrock wrote:
So my Psychic Power cards are out of date too...? Great. Note to self: don't buy any of the optional stuff, even if it seems like a bargain.

There's a reason I made my own psychic cards (and warlord cards) with Magic Set Editor. I'll definitely be revising them as well as making new ones for the objective cards once I get a copy of the rulebook.

 Sir Arun wrote:
So lemme get this straight...Inquisitor Coteaz from the Grey Knights codex cannot summon Daemons, but Inquisitor Coteaz from the Inquisition codex can summon Daemons?

Basically depends on who he's rolling with apparently.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:
So lemme get this straight...Inquisitor Coteaz from the Grey Knights codex cannot summon Daemons, but Inquisitor Coteaz from the Inquisition codex can summon Daemons?

Basically depends on who he's rolling with apparently.

Maybe he's just on his best behavior when he's hanging out with the lads from Titan.

coredump wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
Reading the FOC rules pages, looks like there are no need for Double FOC rules, as you can pick any number of detachments... so, if I understand it correctly, you can have an army with all but HQs and Troops? 3 combined armies detachments, giving you 6 HQs and potentially 18 Troops (not even using allies)

I can't find that page scan again, but I am pretty sure there was also talk about "Primary Detachments" and such. So it may not be possible to take mroe than 1 Combined Arms detachments.

It also seems that you can take a formation, but any troops in the formation will *not* have Objective Secured special rule.

I've read it in the first or second column

Da Butcha wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:
So lemme get this straight...Inquisitor Coteaz from the Grey Knights codex cannot summon Daemons, but Inquisitor Coteaz from the Inquisition codex can summon Daemons?

Basically depends on who he's rolling with apparently.

Maybe he's just on his best behavior when he's hanging out with the lads from Titan.

Wouldnt you be?

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:
So lemme get this straight...Inquisitor Coteaz from the Grey Knights codex cannot summon Daemons, but Inquisitor Coteaz from the Inquisition codex can summon Daemons?

Basically depends on who he's rolling with apparently.

If you're not sure which Coteaz is which, check if he has a goatee or not.