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Jeebus... Land Raiders just became the ultimate tank in 40k.

Black Templar and Blood Angel players must be salivating at this right now.

Wraithknights keep getting better in comparison to everyother MC since they are always str.10 including HoW and 2 str.10 guns stock.

 undertow wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:

 undertow wrote:
I hope that change to Smash isn't true. If it is, as a Daemon player I'll have almost zero reliable ways of removing tanks...

Except summoning more daemons to summon more daemons... not a lot of pity to be had here

So I'll be summoning Daemons that can't remove tanks to summon more Daemons that can't remove tanks in order to remove tanks?

Bloodthirsters and Soul Grinders can still deal with the higher AV targets. Maybe not as reliably, but you have options. Also, what about screamers?

perhaps regular MC attacks get armoourbane. that reduces the number of ID on non-EW models but still allows for MCs to crack open vehicles a little bit better.

wait so if we go to the GW store now and place an order for the munitorum edition and have it delivered to our local GW for pickup (which is not going to happen on may 24th), we not only get a 50 pound voucher, but also the standard rulebook for free on release day?

 undertow wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 undertow wrote:
I hope that change to Smash isn't true. If it is, as a Daemon player I'll have almost zero reliable ways of removing tanks. Weaker vehicles and some walkers I could handle, but anything AV13 or higher will be virtually immune to the shooting I can get with any reliability. A lot of my anti-tank options are results of random rolls on reward tables or psychic shooting attacks with variable strength.

Since when do demons rely on shooting to take out vehicles? You don't have any greater demons or demon princes? If they're still good at taking on vehicles in CC, the problem isn't with the rules but rather with the army style you've taken. Isn't that what monstrous creatures are for? I could complain that my tau can't reliably take on tyrannid monstrous creatures in close combat but I realize that isn't how they're *supposed* to take them out. I could also take a devastator heavy list and wonder the same thing with my marines.

Please pay attention. I'm saying that Smash in CC is currently my way of dealing with high AV vehicles (13+). If the nerf to Smash is true we will no longer be able to drop heavy vehicles in CC and Daemon shooting isn't up to the task of reliably dealing with AV13+.

Also, Daemons have decent shooting abilities. Light vehicles such as Rhinos or anything light that I can get a rear or side armor shot on I can take out. I'm strictly talking about AV13+ vehicles and no longer having any reliable ways to deal with them, shooting or otherwise.

How many of these vehicles have rear armor 12+? Unless you're fighting hordes of Dreadnoughts and Land Raiders most things tend to have 10 or maybe at most 11 rear armor, which is what you will be hitting in CC. There are still plenty of ways to take down most vehicles if you build your list the right way.

I am really not sure what you are complaining about.
FMC got a huge tougness boost
FMC got for some an offensive boost while in the air (shooting + psychic powers)
FMC got nerfed when attacking vehicles and that is only an issue against walkers and LR
against walkers it was really normal
and against LR you are in the same situation as everyone else

Puscifer wrote:
Jeebus... Land Raiders just became the ultimate tank in 40k.

Black Templar and Blood Angel players must be salivating at this right now.

I'm thinking Bloodletters, or perhaps Nettes, shoehorned into a CSM Land Raider might be quite a tasty little unit.

Not even that expensive if you lay off the upgrades for the troops.

 Green is Best! wrote:

 undertow wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:

 undertow wrote:
I hope that change to Smash isn't true. If it is, as a Daemon player I'll have almost zero reliable ways of removing tanks...

Except summoning more daemons to summon more daemons... not a lot of pity to be had here

So I'll be summoning Daemons that can't remove tanks to summon more Daemons that can't remove tanks in order to remove tanks?

Bloodthirsters and Soul Grinders can still deal with the higher AV targets. Maybe not as reliably, but you have options. Also, what about screamers?

Bloodthirsters will still be smashing, and still affected by the nerf. Soul Grinder shooting, at isn't what I'd call reliable, especially when the you get one shot at BS3. The Smash nerf coupled with the change to the vehicle damage chart makes things look grim for Daemons and Nids.

Screamers are great at removing light vehicles. They can stumble against AV14 though. The last few times I've thrown a squad of 7 Screamers at a Landraider, they bounced off.

 azreal13 wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
Jeebus... Land Raiders just became the ultimate tank in 40k.

Black Templar and Blood Angel players must be salivating at this right now.

I'm thinking Bloodletters, or perhaps Nettes, shoehorned into a CSM Land Raider might be quite a tasty little unit.

Not even that expensive if you lay off the upgrades for the troops.

I thought one army can't use another army's transports in a game?

 TheKbob wrote:
The other half of the 7E equation is the necessary Day One FAQs.

Will they be available Day One, that's the first check.

Second, do they address the actual issues that are within the books, regardless of edition change.

Third, how do they change the books with the edition.

Nah, they shouldn't be necessary. White Dwarf already said that your codexes will be fully compatible with the new edition...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Herzlos wrote:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Even if it didn't, they would say it did.

Can't have the truth out there, can we?

They haven't done that with the rest of the LE's that didn't sell out. They send a few emails with "quick, there's less than 200 left", and then swap them between stores.

There was some speculation when the last couple of hundred copies of the Ltd Tyranid codex sat in the store for a week or two and then just disappeared overnight.

 undertow wrote:

 Green is Best! wrote:

 undertow wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:

 undertow wrote:
I hope that change to Smash isn't true. If it is, as a Daemon player I'll have almost zero reliable ways of removing tanks...

Except summoning more daemons to summon more daemons... not a lot of pity to be had here

So I'll be summoning Daemons that can't remove tanks to summon more Daemons that can't remove tanks in order to remove tanks?

Bloodthirsters and Soul Grinders can still deal with the higher AV targets. Maybe not as reliably, but you have options. Also, what about screamers?

Bloodthirsters will still be smashing, and still affected by the nerf. Soul Grinder shooting, at isn't what I'd call reliable, especially when the you get one shot at BS3. The Smash nerf coupled with the change to the vehicle damage chart makes things look grim for Daemons and Nids.

Screamers are great at removing light vehicles. They can stumble against AV14 though. The last few times I've thrown a squad of 7 Screamers at a Landraider, they bounced off.

As a daemons player, I'm not seeing what you're seeing vs vehicles.

Remember, smash is currently half attacks, but then you add all the bonuses, if I need to smash, I still fully expect to be rolling 3 or more attacks with my Khorne Princes (fewer with others who won't have rampage, admittedly.) In most cases that will be auto pens, and enough to wreck most vehicles (assuming you hit of course, but that's something else that has changed frequently edition to edition and we have no info on) Sure, there'll be less whiff room, but I can still see it being effective at what it needs to be, just without some redundant overkill that we have now.

 insaniak wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
The other half of the 7E equation is the necessary Day One FAQs.

Will they be available Day One, that's the first check.

Second, do they address the actual issues that are within the books, regardless of edition change.

Third, how do they change the books with the edition.

Nah, they shouldn't be necessary. White Dwarf already said that your codexes will be fully compatible with the new edition...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Herzlos wrote:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Even if it didn't, they would say it did.

Can't have the truth out there, can we?

They haven't done that with the rest of the LE's that didn't sell out. They send a few emails with "quick, there's less than 200 left", and then swap them between stores.

There was some speculation when the last couple of hundred copies of the Ltd Tyranid codex sat in the store for a week or two and then just disappeared overnight.

Get you're 4+'s ready... sigh

Puscifer wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
Jeebus... Land Raiders just became the ultimate tank in 40k.

Black Templar and Blood Angel players must be salivating at this right now.

I'm thinking Bloodletters, or perhaps Nettes, shoehorned into a CSM Land Raider might be quite a tasty little unit.

Not even that expensive if you lay off the upgrades for the troops.

I thought one army can't use another army's transports in a game?

Battle brothers can now, apparently, and CSM and Daemons are rumoured to be one of the few BB combos.

SeanDrake wrote:
Hang on so the area famed for it's wailing and gnashing of teeth regarding regional pricing, who state wages are not really high there due to the cost of living etc is the first and only place to sell out of the ultra expensive edition

Doesn't really mean much without knowing how many copies were allocated to Australia.

The area 'famed for its wailing and gnashing of teeth regarding regional pricing' also has a small number of gamers with plenty of money to splash out on their hobby who don't particularly care about the prices. So limited editions still sell down here.

 azreal13 wrote:
Battle brothers can now, apparently, and CSM and Daemons are rumoured to be one of the few BB combos.

I don't care what your rulebook says. That Plaguebearer is not getting in my car.

Bloodwin wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
Battle brothers can now, apparently, and CSM and Daemons are rumoured to be one of the few BB combos.

I don't care what your rulebook says. That Plaguebearer is not getting in my car.

I like it!

Bloodwin wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
Battle brothers can now, apparently, and CSM and Daemons are rumoured to be one of the few BB combos.

I don't care what your rulebook says. That Plaguebearer is not getting in my car.

+1 for making me laugh my drink over my desk

Hmm my Munitorum Edition is still "pending" on my GW account with no tracking number. Ordered it to deliver to my store so I get it on release and I'm in the US... also haven't received an email saying mine has been delayed either. Hmmmm! Getting worried.

Sooo....
I'll just leave this here...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qfvil208tnafkqi/Photo%20May%2020%2C%204%2031%2002%20PM.jpg

So what do we know for definite other than whats changed with psykers?

I'm worried I'm picking up too many false rumours and keeping them as legit.

snap fire is BS1.
ignore cover is no cover saves?
Jink as a USR is 4+ but snap fire next turn?
smash is 1 attack @ 2X S?
Vector strike is 1 attack at unmodified S statistic - AP2 + D3 on Vehicles?
IC cannot join MC's.
Grounding tests only once per FMC that is wounded - in the shooting phase only?
7+ on Vehicle damage chart to explode.
D weapon change.


Are all these true? what else is there?

Quite the shift in BBBFFs

Not understanding some of the AoC but its more grim dark and i like it.

Changes that are confirmed to be changed
FMCs taking 1 grounding test
D weapons
the new psychic powers and psychic phase
and Vehicle chart.
as well as allied chart just now

All else i dont think they had any hard proof (scans)

Well well, that's interesting. A little sad that IG aren't Allies of Con. with Chaos. But on the other hand my GK's just got hella happier since they can join my IG now!

Welp, so much for Traitor Guard. Oh, and look. Still no Genestealer Cult armies.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Well well, that's interesting. A little sad that IG aren't Allies of Con. with Chaos. But on the other hand my GK's just got hella happier since they can join my IG now!

Delicious warding stave with a IG priest pumping out reroll saves



@Briancj hang on IIRC there where rumors that you can still take CtA. only that they behave like DA and something about deployment.

I am suddenly very sad inside. I'd been putting money away to buy some Traitor guardsmen.

All armies can ally. Come the APOC is desperate allies, plus cannot deploy within 12" at start of game. I think it also hints at taking come the apocalypse allies is only for unbound forces.

sleekid wrote:
I am really not sure what you are complaining about.
FMC got a huge tougness boost
FMC got for some an offensive boost while in the air (shooting + psychic powers)
FMC got nerfed when attacking vehicles and that is only an issue against walkers and LR
against walkers it was really normal
and against LR you are in the same situation as everyone else

You are missing the issue. Yes, FMCs got some nerfs and Boosts.... That isn't the problem. The problem is that MCs (not just flying ones) are the only way Nids and Demons have to deal with AV13 and AV14 vehicles. (and AV12 is no picnic either) Most armies have a way to shoot the vehicle starting on turn 1, with MCs it will take you 2-3 turns just to get an attack and if you paid for wings, you need to land and lose all that resiliency.

For what... *1* attack? 2/3 hits, lets say autopen, then 1/2 does no lasting damage. How many turns will it take for my 230 pt flyrant to actually take out that 150 pt Leman Russ? And that is my *best* method.
Sure, skip the Smash Attack, now I get 5 attacks, 3 hit, a whopping 1 Pen, and still 1/2 does no lasting damage.

If Smash gives Armorbane (not Smash Attack, just the basic Smash USR) then it might balance out okay.


It is bad enough needing to use MCs to take out tanks, it means you are either landing your way expensive FMCs, or you are trying to run your 3+ save MCs across the board and hope to *catch* a vehicle.... but now we need to spend 2-3 turns running, and then another 2-3 turns attacking to *maybe* kill a vehicle.



We also don't know if that is 1 attack total, or 1 attack before adding in Charge and two weapons. Either way means Nids and Demons are screwed, it just depends on how much they are screwed.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Sooo....
I'll just leave this here...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qfvil208tnafkqi/Photo%20May%2020%2C%204%2031%2002%20PM.jpg

Blarg drop box, quick someone rehost

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Sooo....
I'll just leave this here...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qfvil208tnafkqi/Photo%20May%2020%2C%204%2031%2002%20PM.jpg

YOU THERE!

where did you get this and what else do you know?