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 Mr.Omega wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Jump infantry get Jink and get to use jumppacks in both phases?

It would seem there would be *zero* point to using tac's and equivalents after that, especially given how Assault Marines/Raptors are like 2ppm more.

Doom! DOOM! The end is nigh!

Tacticals have objective secured scoring, can take specials/heavies, and don't get all of their effectiveness from being able to kill in CC where most often being hit back is guaranteed and meeting far killier CC threats is likely.

Plus, I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere that jink got changed to be voluntary and that there's a few nerfs to the unit as a result.

The rumour was that using Jink meant you had to use snap shots the following turn. That isn't really a nerf for Assault squads who probably aren't going to be in range with their guns when jinking anyway. What would be better:

1) Getting a 4+ cover save, mitigating losses from enemy shooting and not firing your bolt pistols (or having them less effective) the next turn and therefore not killing enemy models which means you have less of a charge distance to cover

or

2) Not having a 4+ cover save and so losing some more models, firing your bolt pistols at full effectiveness and possibly killing some enemy models and therefore making your required charge distance greater before overwatch even begins

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Jump infantry get Jink and get to use jumppacks in both phases?

It would seem there would be *zero* point to using tac's and equivalents after that, especially given how Assault Marines/Raptors are like 2ppm more.

Doom! DOOM! The end is nigh!

Tacticals have objective secured scoring, can take specials/heavies, and don't get all of their effectiveness from being able to kill in CC where most often being hit back is guaranteed and meeting far killier CC threats is likely.

Plus, I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere that jink got changed to be voluntary and that there's a few nerfs to the unit as a result.

The rumour was that using Jink meant you had to use snap shots the following turn. That isn't really a nerf for Assault squads who probably aren't going to be in range with their guns when jinking anyway. What would be better, getting a 4+ cover save and not firing your bolt pistols (or having them less effective) the next turn or not having a 4+ cover save, firing your bolt pistols at full effectiveness, posibbly killing some enemy models and therefore making your required charge distance greater before overwatch even begins?

You beat me to it.

 Leth wrote:
Grey knights are gonna have a few nice elements for certain imperial armies. Will need to see the rules changes and FAQs, but I could see some meaness coming out of that. Also Assassins FINALLY. I can make some fun lists with that change.

Assassins finally? Is something removing their "unique" limitation letting you take more than 1 of a type in a army? Or do you have something else in mind? Curious as I play henchmen with assassins.

Templars and Sisters can finally ally without hating each other. Let the purgation begin!

speaking of which, I am sure GW will release a Codex: Assassinorum before they release the next GK codex


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Templars and Sisters can finally ally without hating each other. Let the purgation begin!

they already could in the last edition after september 13 when black templars as a unique faction ceased to exist.

 portugus wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Grey knights are gonna have a few nice elements for certain imperial armies. Will need to see the rules changes and FAQs, but I could see some meaness coming out of that. Also Assassins FINALLY. I can make some fun lists with that change.

Assassins finally? Is something removing their "unique" limitation letting you take more than 1 of a type in a army? Or do you have something else in mind? Curious as I play henchmen with assassins.

Well before they took an allied slot, but didnt synergize well with the other imperial armies so the cost to take an assassin was pretty high.

Now I can do something like take a librarian, get a assassin, and then something like a terminator squad or something integrate that into my army. Also if scoring turns into objective secured(100% guess on my part) (like sternguard) then it would be interesting to get a dreadknight with objective secured. Or an interceptor squad with objective secured. Really help you play to the mission cards with super mobile elements.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Jump infantry get Jink and get to use jumppacks in both phases?

It would seem there would be *zero* point to using tac's and equivalents after that, especially given how Assault Marines/Raptors are like 2ppm more.

Doom! DOOM! The end is nigh!

Tacticals have objective secured scoring, can take specials/heavies, and don't get all of their effectiveness from being able to kill in CC where most often being hit back is guaranteed and meeting far killier CC threats is likely.

Plus, I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere that jink got changed to be voluntary and that there's a few nerfs to the unit as a result.

The rumour was that using Jink meant you had to use snap shots the following turn. That isn't really a nerf for Assault squads who probably aren't going to be in range with their guns when jinking anyway. What would be better:

1) Getting a 4+ cover save, mitigating losses from enemy shooting and not firing your bolt pistols (or having them less effective) the next turn and therefore not killing enemy models which means you have less of a charge distance to cover

or

2) Not having a 4+ cover save and so losing some more models, firing your bolt pistols at full effectiveness and possibly killing some enemy models and therefore making your required charge distance greater before overwatch even begins

Assault marines might actually make it back into lists! Its a shame I don't have any good melee jinkers like that... Come to think of it Shining Spears may actually be halfway decent, but they always had a jink save with the jetbikes they are on and warp spiders will probably still outshine them.

So, the entire Imperium gets thrown together to mix and match at will, with plenty of allies.

The rest of the armies get nerfs, with the minor exception for nids.

What a pile of gak. So my Blood Axes are ruined. I cannot even begin to fathom how they managed to take the previous allies chart and MAKE IT WORSE?!?

Very angry.

 Sir Arun wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Templars and Sisters can finally ally without hating each other. Let the purgation begin!

they already could in the last edition after september 13 when black templars as a unique faction ceased to exist.

Except for the part where they couldn't, but let's not go down that rabbit hole again.

So now that there is exactly zero ambugity with SoB and Black Templar being best of buds and allying together I have a request. Would the people that argued that them not being good allies in 6th edition makes sense due to fluff reasons please try and agrue their point again using the exact same logic.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Templars and Sisters can finally ally without hating each other. Let the purgation begin!

they already could in the last edition after september 13 when black templars as a unique faction ceased to exist.

Except for the part where they couldn't, but let's not go down that rabbit hole again.

One of the more heated debates, at least it's over.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
So, the entire Imperium gets thrown together to mix and match at will, with plenty of allies.

The rest of the armies get nerfs, with the minor exception for nids.

What a pile of gak. So my Blood Axes are ruined. I cannot even begin to fathom how they managed to take the previous allies chart and MAKE IT WORSE?!?

Very angry.

I'm saying. Almost every rumor I've heard so far goes in the 'I hope that isn't true' category. Sincerely hoping those pictures were faked...

So, I was just flipping through the Daemons Codex earlier and I had a thought about 7th edition and the new Psychic phase...

...did the Blue Scribes just get a buff? Scrolls of Sorcery means they automatically manifest a power from any discipline - you just roll a D6 to see what power you get. It means that you can have them rolling for Daemonancy powers every turn without needing to set aside Warp Charges for the high-end abilities. Of course, you can't get the Primaris on them and Dark Flame and Eternal Gaze aren't as good as new herlads/fast attack units... but the chance to automatically bring in new units each turn isn't bad, nor is buffing every unit within 12" with Cursed Earth. They can be Denied, so your opponent will have to choose to use warp charges to deny the Blue Scribes' automatically-manifesting ability or hold them back for the rest of your casters. For 81 points, having a 4/6 chance a turn to buff a chunk of the army or bring in another unit is a steal. Plus, since it automatically manifests, you can use the Scribes' first without risking the power failing and being inaccessible to the rest of the army that turn...

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
So, the entire Imperium gets thrown together to mix and match at will, with plenty of allies.

The rest of the armies get nerfs, with the minor exception for nids.

What a pile of gak. So my Blood Axes are ruined. I cannot even begin to fathom how they managed to take the previous allies chart and MAKE IT WORSE?!?

Very angry.

Calm down brother...

With the new Ork codex around the corner... We can take 'em all down!!!

Nothing will be able to stop the new green tide!!!!

There's a lot of stuff in the Daemon codex that if not rewritten is basically useless.

For example, +3 LD for Tzeentch, etc..

Collars of Khorne? How the feth does that work now.

Actually, I really like this new allies matrix. This is the first thing I've seen that they've fixed something from 6th.

I'm genuinely surprised.

You Orkies betta jump on this one:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/595798.page

I suspect that if Assault Marines actually are getting to Jink that they will be barred from declaring charges in the next turn.

While ASM getting jinx MIGHT be true, no way in hell do I believe all ASM being able to use their jump packs twice. WTF are Raven Guard gonna do then?

Maybe just jink vs. overwatch?

Santic powers with anyone but grey knights perils on any doubles. Even if successful or not. Ouch! Malefic is any doubles = perils for anyone but models with the daemon special rule.

Going to cost you on those crazy tables gents!

Woops i cant read Edit:

I wonder if Jump pack infantry get Jink as well?

Shrikes, Sky Slashers, Gargoyles got allot more survivable if that is the case...

It's very interesting to me that the Dakka Dakka community thinks having things like Bro-fisting Ultramarine/Tau and Black Templars preferring to fight alongside Eldar over Sisters of Battle is more sensible than all Imperial armies preferring to work with one another than with aliens and abominations.

Methinks the Dakka Dakka community needs to sit the feth down and think about that.

 Desubot wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:


Except on every encounter with Necrons the Tau have been slaughtered.

There is only a single fluff-recorded encounter between the Tau and the Necrons, as far as I'm aware.

And how did it end?

Pretty much the same as all Tau interactions with other races go.

I guess Tau should just be CtA with every race.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
It's very interesting to me that the Dakka Dakka community thinks having things like Bro-fisting Ultramarine/Tau and Black Templars preferring to fight alongside Eldar over Sisters of Battle is more sensible than than all Imperial armies preferring to work with one another than with aliens and abominations.

Methinks the Dakka Dakka community needs to sit the feth down and think about that.

It doesn't, and on a side note, the entire concept of allies is stupid and flawed.


Allies should have been an expansion.

I agree.

That said, the new allies chart is an improvement over the last one.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I agree.

That said, the new allies chart is an improvement over the last one.

The only thing I don't like about it is that Eldar and DE are still BB, which means they still get their ridiculous Baron Cheese deathstars.

found the entire page with the allies matrix. /tg/ delivers

 BlaxicanX wrote:
It's very interesting to me that the Dakka Dakka community thinks having things like Bro-fisting Ultramarine/Tau and Black Templars preferring to fight alongside Eldar over Sisters of Battle is more sensible than all Imperial armies preferring to work with one another than with aliens and abominations.

Methinks the Dakka Dakka community needs to sit the feth down and think about that.

I agree with the sentiment. but putting all in one basket was too much, I think.

 undertow wrote:

Loopstah wrote:

 undertow wrote:

General Duf wrote:
I am suddenly very sad inside. I'd been putting money away to buy some Traitor guardsmen.

Same. I'm now 'Come the Apocalypse' with guard for my Daemons. Oh well, I'll figure something else out. Maybe I'll go outside more often.

Or you could use your Guard psykers to summon your daemons?

I could. But the thing that attracted me to Daemons in the first place was the Monstrous Creatures. I'm not really interested in playing IG and summoning a bunch of small daemons.

I wanted to splash in a few vehicles and some cultists as guardsmen. I'll probably try out a daemon summoning factory now. I need to get a closer look at the rules for each ally type to see if I still want to add some IG. I'm just glad I held off on purchasing any models until after 7th dropped.

Use the Renegades and Heretics list from Forge World? They ally with daemons as BB

So, GKs will get lots of access to D strength Vortex powers. VORTEX. Lol What? That can't be right.