40k 7th Edition release 24th may - All info in 1st post, psychic power cards added (5/21)

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**Puscifer**

TheKbob wrote:
Puscifer wrote:

Spoiler:

++Daemon Farm++

-Fateweaver
-Tz. Herald (ML3, Disc)
-Tz. Herald (ML3, Disc)
-Tz. Herald (ML1)
-Tz. Herald (ML1)

-10x Pink Horrors
-10x Pink Horrors
-10x Pink Horrors
-10x Pink Horrors
-10x Pink Horrors

-9x Screamers

-Burning Chariot
-Burning Chariot
-Daemon Prince (Flight, Armor, Exalted Reward, Tz. Mark, ML3)

You can fiddle with the points and gak stuff around if you want more effective shooting, but the idea is to cascade the WC3 powers in the pink horrors. Per Bro-Hood of Psykers, they only lose a model if they peril, so after you get the Screamerstar buffs you need, just 6~8 dice the horrors. Unless they are absolutely mulching everything, you should be able to cause distress with your support units and/or shoot when necessary.

The list might need refinement to get some more units that can lock down the opposing army. That's really the screamerstars job; not to kill, but to gum up the opponents army and add as "shock and awe".

Whenever a "battery" of horrors gets low on guys, throw a big possession spell. Or hell, throw it early to get another LoC. Trading 90pts on the first turn for a 230pt FMC ain't bad and still nets you +1 warp charge dice. You have to play this list "balls to the walls". Yes, you could kill yourself, or you could absolutely swarm the enemy causing mass sadness. Remember, denying the summoning spells is just straight 6s, so once you get past a certain number of dice, the probability of denial starts dropping a great deal.

Yup. We have a Daemon player who already got us with this tonight.

It's broken. We couldn't beat him before, now he's unstoppable.

Could you elaborate? What was his list? How did he play it?

This interests me... for science...

Will do in the morning. Too tired.

**Slayer le boucher**

Allready some errors found in this new rule set.

Deamonoly Power Banishment;

Rule book says 1 Warp Charge.

New Power Card says 3 Warp Charge

French Version;Psychic Shriek; Rule book and card says range of 12", while English says 18"

**Auswin**

TheKbob wrote:

This doesn't sound right. It shouldn't be "scary" for daemons as they perils on the standard two 6s. And you then push out cascading troops who choke the board. You only risk nearly dead units to push the Herald/Possession powers. If you only have 3 pink horrors left, who cares if you 12 dice possession? Perils, but the spell still goes off thus they are killed anyways and replaced with a Lord of Change.

Using that tree tactically in a daemons army still seems a crazy strong strategy. I want to see the more tournament level folks trying it over a few games to negate dice nonsense.

I initially thought the same thing too. The two demon players there I'd consider the biggest power gamers of our local meta. They massed chariots and psykers to flood the board with summons but found that warp charge three spells requires too many dice to reliably get off multiple summons in a turn (which is what they hoped for).

Honestly, I don't know exactly what his list comprised of, but one guy gave me an example of having 9 mastery levels and and rolling a 2. He had to commit 8 dice to reliable get off the first summon and got whittled down by weight of fire the following turn. Maybe bad rolling, but it was too unreliable for his liking. Perils weren't the issue, casting lvl3's was.

**Magc8Ball**

A list with 9 power dice will be reasonable. The problem is that you can find demon lists with upwards of 20.

**TheKbob**

Auswin wrote:
TheKbob wrote:

This doesn't sound right. It shouldn't be "scary" for daemons as they perils on the standard two 6s. And you then push out cascading troops who choke the board. You only risk nearly dead units to push the Herald/Possession powers. If you only have 3 pink horrors left, who cares if you 12 dice possession? Perils, but the spell still goes off thus they are killed anyways and replaced with a Lord of Change.

Using that tree tactically in a daemons army still seems a crazy strong strategy. I want to see the more tournament level folks trying it over a few games to negate dice nonsense.

I initially thought the same thing too. The two demon players there I'd consider the biggest power gamers of our local meta. They massed chariots and psykers to flood the board with summons but found that warp charge three spells requires too many dice to reliably get off multiple summons in a turn (which is what they hoped for).

Honestly, I don't know exactly what his list comprised of, but one guy gave me an example of having 9 mastery levels and and rolling a 2. He had to commit 8 dice to reliable get off the first summon and got whittled down by weight of fire the following turn. Maybe bad rolling, but it was too unreliable for his liking. Perils weren't the issue, casting lvl3's was.

Yea, nine power dice? That's low. The list I just made has 22 + d6 dice at 1850. And it still has a screamerstar in it. Therefore you make the opposing player poo a little when they have to choose between a powered up Screamerstar or you dumping 8~9 dice into a Pink Horror squad/Herald for Possession. The idea is that you can force as many units to turn into FMCs and then on turn 4+, just respawn in your pink horrors. Any pink horror that doesn't have possession moves forward to flickering fire, bullet sponge, and tie up the enemy. If you have spare dice, try to summon more pink horrors.

If Pink Horrors can't be Malefic, then you simply quad up your force org by taking nurglings and pumping out lvl one heralds. Hide them everywhere in your deployment zone and either pump out more nurglings or go for possession.

This all relies on the FAQs which we need to see which units get which powers. The game is unplayable, IMO, until this happens.

**Sir Arun**

IC can never be deployed inside a dedicated transport unless kept in reserve?

After all, the IC only has 2 ways to join a unit,
either be placed within 2 coherency (cant be because the unit is inside a transport)
Or
be declared to be in the unit and placed in reserves.

**TedNugent**

Auswin wrote:

- Assault became slightly more effective, but not enough to reliably run an assault army with success.

Hi, can you go into detail about how assault got more effective?

I'm really interested in this if true. Thank you

**Crablezworth**

You can't overwatch if the unit has gone to ground and it's slightly more likely get a charge off through terrain.

**Matt.Kingsley**

Slayer le boucher wrote:
Allready some errors found in this new rule set.

Deamonoly Power Banishment;

Rule book says 1 Warp Charge.

New Power Card says 3 Warp Charge

French Version;Psychic Shriek; Rule book and card says range of 12", while English says 18"

Good catch there with the Psy Cards, wouldn't have realised that myself (I have little need for Sanctic being a daemons player myself) But undoubtedly my opponent(s) would want to use it...

Time to self-update that card... boo I don't like messing them up.

**Auswin**

Double post.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

TedNugent wrote:

Hi, can you go into detail about how assault got more effective?

I'm really interested in this if true. Thank you

This is all second-hand stuff, so ymmv -- but I trust the players I talked to, they rule crunch and understand the game's systems better than I do.

They found that charge ranges were slightly increased with the change to terrain, making it easier to reliably get into combat. Ally transport shenanigans are HUGE for some armies, but we can put that to the side for a second.

Changing the way challenges work was an unexpected boon to CC monsters. They thought it might be a neat "once in a while" thing, but found that instead of getting locked down for a turn they come into their own. The example they gave me was a BA vs. AM. Mephiston made it into a 30 man blob squad with a commissar in CC and quickly demolished him. In the past he'd need to sit a whole turn, wait for the guard to swing, then see if they broke. In reality four wounds spilled over and killed the guardsmen, they got one wound on mephy then broke and he swept them. Situational for sure, but it added to his overall effectiveness -- because he wasn't tied down like he'd be in the past.

From a Dark Eldar perspective (what I play the most) there will need to be an faq to explain how Drazhar will work. Darting strike could potentially allow the owner to allocate spill over wounds by making him move in base to base after winning a challenge (which he probably will).

**Brachiaraidos**

Auswin wrote:
...The example they gave me was a BA vs. AM. Mephiston made it into a 30 man blob squad with a commissar in CC and quickly demolished him...

..they got one wound on mephy then broke

How in god's name did that happen? Summary Execution is an auto-pass now.

**Azreal13**

Commisar was dead.

**TheKbob**

I can I finally run Tyranids how I want to, though... with just the models I like. Check this list:

Spoiler:

**WrentheFaceless**

So played my first game today of 7th, vs my buddies tau

My Inquisitor almost killed himself twice with peris, first time rolled a 1, second time rolled a 3

And my friend Denied one of my blessings x.x lol

Coteaz using Sanctic, rolling Sanctuary and having a squad of 2++ crusaders was fun though

**OIIIIIIO**

I like how non IC can now be joined by an IC. Ole Mephy can hire a crew of IC to roll with him now ....

**Veriamp**

Has any body seen this yet? http://warhammerworld.games-workshop.com/2014/05/24/new-warhammer-40000-rules-and-our-events-in-2014/#sthash.mALOGweI.dpuf

And a copy paste for the work blocked

Well met Warhammer 40,000 warriors.

A brand new edition of the rules has arrived and many of you may be wondering what this means for the events you are planning to attend.

The Events Team have been hard at work deciding what to do (it’s a tough old life…) and so we have made the following decisions for each of our Warhammer 40,000 events for 2014.

Please note: We are confident that any army you could take before is still usable at our events. If you are worried that something we have written here or in the new rulebook contradicts this please contact us and we will discuss it with you. We want any army you could use before to be available after this update – so don’t worry – you will still be able to use it!
WHW throne of skulls

The points values for armies shall remain the same (1,500).
We will be using the ‘Battle Forged’ rules to select armies, from page 117 of the rulebook.
You can only take the “Combined Arms” Detachment on page 122 once at a Throne of Skulls event.
There will be no other changes to the standard Battle-Forged rules.
We will be using the Eternal War missions as stated in the Events Pack.

**wana10**

OIIIIIIO wrote:
I like how non IC can now be joined by an IC. Ole Mephy can hire a crew of IC to roll with him now ....

I thought I read on one of these endless pages that monstrous creatures can't be joined by independent characters now.

**Matt.Kingsley**

They can't

However Mephy is Infantry, so he can be joined

**wana10**

Ah. yes. quite right. Dunno why I thought they had given him the monstrous creature rule. Why don't we just chalk that one up to a momentary mind lapse shall we?

**TheKbob**

Does this mean Assassins can now be joined by ICs?

**Matt.Kingsley**

I believe it does.

**KommissarKiln**

Can someone help clarify what is meant by an "unbounded" army/detachment? Does this mean I can literally have an army that is simply a line of Leman Russes that blitzkrieg down the board without any infantry, or is it not as loose as I interpreted it?

**Auswin**

Oh man... a Vindicare/Coteaz power couple could be extremely nasty.

**Maddermax**

KommissarKiln wrote:
Can someone help clarify what is meant by an "unbounded" army/detachment? Does this mean I can literally have an army that is simply a line of Leman Russes that blitzkrieg down the board without any infantry, or is it not as loose as I interpreted it?

That's exactly what it means.

**undertow**

Magc8Ball wrote:
A list with 9 power dice will be reasonable. The problem is that you can find demon lists with upwards of 20.

The list I ran today had 21 + D6. Fatweaver, 3 ML3 Princes, 2 ML3 Heralds, 2 units of 10 Horrors, and 6 Screamers.

I summoned about 1 unit per turn. Plus the portal glyph pooped out a few more. We played a Maelstrom mission and was super close against a Salamander army.

**TheKbob**

Auswin wrote:
Oh man... a Vindicare/Coteaz power couple could be extremely nasty.

It means no more "one shotting" my Vindicare that has the entire goal of stripping Shield Eternals and Shadowfields off "problem" ICs. Put a Terminator Inquisitor with them and let the wounds soak. I'm sure there's other tricks we can figure out...

**warboss**

undertow wrote:
Magc8Ball wrote:
A list with 9 power dice will be reasonable. The problem is that you can find demon lists with upwards of 20.

The list I ran today had 21 + D6. Fatweaver, 3 ML3 Princes, 2 ML3 Heralds, 2 units of 10 Horrors, and 6 Screamers.

I summoned about 1 unit per turn. Plus the portal glyph pooped out a few more. We played a Maelstrom mission and was super close against a Salamander army.

Out of curiosity, how many points in the end was your army compared with the size you started with and your opponent had?

**UltraPrime**

I don't think I'll have huge issues playing against the uber-summoning list, so long as my opponent has the appropriate models. It's only in the land of proxy things can get stupid.

**Kelly502**

I was sure I would have the rules in hand by now... this is what I get for buying local...

**Veteran Sergeant**

Toburk wrote:
Sir Arun wrote:
Is Slow and Purposeful and Salvo Weapons unchanged?

It always struck me as odd that Grav Cannons had a 2/4 profile when the only unit wielding them - Grav Cents - were SnP and thus always shot 4 shots each.

Grav weapons are salvo, so Grav Cannons are salvo too. That's just how GW does things.

The weapon might be usable by other units in the future. Better to have the applicable stats from the start, even if they are irrelevant to certain units.