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They cannot swivel like sponson mounted weapons, and hull mounted weapons have 45° line of sight but these guns are lined parallel to the hull so they only have half that, i.e. 22.5° line of sight, am I correct?

If they are hull mounted they have a 45 degree arc or fire, as per page 72

 DeathReaper wrote:
If they are hull mounted they have a 45 degree arc or fire, as per page 72

Including if they were able to shoot through themselves, so yeah, 22.5 Degree arc.

 Sparkadia wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
If they are hull mounted they have a 45 degree arc or fire, as per page 72

Including if they were able to shoot through themselves, so yeah, 22.5 Degree arc.

No, it is a 45 degree arc, the rules on this are very clear.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Sparkadia wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
If they are hull mounted they have a 45 degree arc or fire, as per page 72

Including if they were able to shoot through themselves, so yeah, 22.5 Degree arc.

No, it is a 45 degree arc, the rules on this are very clear.

A gun needs LoS before it can shoot. If the tank's hull blocks LoS, it cannot shoot at whatever target is on the other side.

Does it say "45 degrees arc with the mid point being in the front of the gun"? If not, then it can shoot 45.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Does it say "45 degrees arc with the mid point being in the front of the gun"? If not, then it can shoot 45.

range and LoS is always measured from the gun barrel, see BRB.

 Sir Arun wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Sparkadia wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
If they are hull mounted they have a 45 degree arc or fire, as per page 72

Including if they were able to shoot through themselves, so yeah, 22.5 Degree arc.

No, it is a 45 degree arc, the rules on this are very clear.

A gun needs LoS before it can shoot. If the tank's hull blocks LoS, it cannot shoot at whatever target is on the other side.

Of course it needs Line of Sight, but I do not see you point.

my point is that despite the gun having a RAW 45° arc for being hull mounted, practically speaking it is only half that (see above image in the pic below)

as otherwise if you just took the 45° arc, it would be able to shoot the 2 enemy models within the arc, but in reality they are blocked by the vehicle's hull (lower image in the pic below)

The diagram in the rule book shows the centre line of the 45' arc being parallel to the barrel of the gun. There is no precedent to move that centre line around.

Technically it would be a hair more than 22.5' usable LoS (45' degree total LoS) because the barrel is slightly spaced away from the hull.

The door does block a bit, bit the gun is slightly higher than the track-guard, so it's not quite as limited as the first diagram shows.

You drew that incorrectly.

It should look like this, as this is a 45 degree arc.

Further adding to the confusion is that p. 73 of the BRB doesnt let the 45° arc triangle start from the tip of the Lascannon (or even one of the HBs) barrel, but rather from the vehicle's hull.

edit: your diagram makes more sense than mine.

 DeathReaper wrote:
You drew that incorrectly.

It should look like this, as this is a 45 degree arc.

That's a 90*

You're taking 45* from either side, for a 90* total.

 grendel083 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
You drew that incorrectly.

It should look like this, as this is a 45 degree arc.

That's a 90*

-.-

 grendel083 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
You drew that incorrectly.

It should look like this, as this is a 45 degree arc.

That's a 90*

No it isn't, that's a 45.

A 90 Degree would look like this:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
You drew that incorrectly.

It should look like this, as this is a 45 degree arc.

That's a 90*

No it isn't, that's a 45.

A 90 Degree would look like this:

Wouldn't that actually be a 180 degree arc with the line facing directly forward being the center of the arc?

 DeathReaper wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
You drew that incorrectly.

It should look like this, as this is a 45 degree arc.

That's a 90*

No it isn't, that's a 45.

A 90 Degree would look like this:

That's 90* to the left.
If you add in the movement to the right, you now have a 180* swivel.

 Ghaz wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
You drew that incorrectly.

It should look like this, as this is a 45 degree arc.

That's a 90*

No it isn't, that's a 45.

A 90 Degree would look like this:

Wouldn't that actually be a 180 degree arc with the line facing directly forward being the center of the arc?

No, the Black lines show the total arc.

 grendel083 wrote:
That's 90* to the left.
If you add in the movement to the right, you now have a 180* swivel.

There is no movement to the right, the Black lines show the total arc.

This is a 45* arc.

The grey area shows what can be seen within the arc, as part of the Hull limits this slightly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DeathReaper wrote:
There is no movement to the right, the Black lines show the total arc.

Just because the hull is in the way? Citation required, because that's way wrong.

The BRB only says 45 degree arc, so I drew a 45 degree arc.

You drew one as well.

both legal.

 DeathReaper wrote:
The BRB only says 45 degree arc, so I drew a 45 degree arc.

You drew one as well.

both legal.

There's an example picture in the rulebook showing a 45* hull mounted arc off a Leman Russ. It's 45* total, 22.5* movement to either side.
By removing several degrees of movement from one direction (that would otherwise be blocked by the hull) and applying it to the other (ie: rotating the arc), you are increasing the swivel range that a weapon otherwise cannot have. That's dangerously close to bending the rules for advantage

Except the example picture is for a front mounted hull weapon.

There are no examples of side mounted hull weapons.

The citation for a vehicle's own hull blocking LoS of one of its weapons can be found in the first paragraph under the headline "Vehicle weapons and Line of Sight" on page 72 of the BRB.

 DeathReaper wrote:
Except the example picture is for a front mounted hull weapon.

There are no examples of side mounted hull weapons.

Why would the facing matter? The arc is still drawn from the barrel in the same way no matter where the gun is located.

There are no seperate rules based on location, only one rule that covers all hull mounted weapons.

 DeathReaper wrote:
Except the example picture is for a front mounted hull weapon.

There are no examples of side mounted hull weapons.

No, it is for a hull mounted weapon, don't make up distinctions that do not exist.

They have 45 degrees total arc, measured either side of the centre point. True for all weapons.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
Except the example picture is for a front mounted hull weapon.

There are no examples of side mounted hull weapons.

No, it is for a hull mounted weapon, don't make up distinctions that do not exist.

They have 45 degrees total arc, measured either side of the centre point. True for all weapons.

Though I wish this was in writing I believe this is the correct interpretation. A 45 degrees arc means the gun can swivel along a 45 degrees arc with its modeled position being the center point.

 DeathReaper wrote:
Except the example picture is for a front mounted hull weapon.

There are no examples of side mounted hull weapons.

Show us where "front hull mount" or "side mounted hull" is defined.


I'll wait...

You wound have 45* from each barrel(because we really do not know how to handle multiple barrels, especially when split up like this other than 45* from any barrel).

It would be as in grendel's image(including into the small triangle as fire able); because you must show 45* from the whole weapon(as his does, the fulcrum of the angle is just further back on the model), and a horizontal arc does not mean in any 1 direction but rather both total.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Though I wish this was in writing I believe this is the correct interpretation. A 45 degrees arc means the gun can swivel along a 45 degrees arc with its modeled position being the center point.

Yet there is nothing in the rules that actually says this.