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Plumbumbarum wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

Plumbumbarum wrote:
USA companies are champions of milking, destroying, diluting and dumbing down IPs.

Not to mention GW as crap as it is, is still run by some of the people that created 40k and WHFB. Why would I wish them to be bought by a toy company in a first place, it's theirs and they are free to do what they want with it, even if the collective nerd hates it. The wishes for GW to go down are only notch or two below the death threats to critics who dared bashing Dark Knight Rises btw, just a nerdrage that went too far.

Because British Petroleum showed just how honest, upstanding, and good natured British companies can be....

I hate to tell you this, but corporations in general lean toward this behavior - and if I were so minded and in a more historical mood I would point out British corporations fomenting wars to improve trade, going back two hundred years and more.... (East India Tea Company sound familiar?)

Hasbro is just better at it than GW...

The Auld Grump

It's less about ethics but more about style I think.

Though I'd say, there is fair more chance for respect for the source material when the company is run by its creators, from the same city and nation than when it's bought by a foreign company that does not feel any nostalgia about or connection to the thing. Who would be more likely to sell movie rights to Uwe Boll, Jervis or some Hasbro boss?

btw I'm not some Britain lover but just like any other European country they have times more class when it comes to art. Sorry Americans, just an opinion.

How many of the original creators are actually still with GW? Let's face it, GW has become a load of inept accountants and lawyers in suits.

And to the movie question: Jervis. Look at the Ultramarine film made by GW. It was awful.

Hasbro would get Michael Bay in which case we would have an over-the-top, explosion filled blockbuster full of giant robots, giants in power armour and big aliens. In other words, pretty much what a 40K film would be expected to be.

You forgot that Michael Bay would also add fanservice to pander to twelve year old boys, crude humor (like robots who piss or have "scrotums") and casual racism to the 40k universe too.

And Megan Fox. And REALLY stupid plots.

No thanks.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
You forgot that Michael Bay would also add fanservice to pander to twelve year old boys, crude humor (like robots who piss or have "scrotums") and casual racism to the 40k universe too.

And Megan Fox. And REALLY stupid plots.

No thanks.

40K doesn't already have casual racism?

Nothing casual about those redemtionists lol

Hasbro wreaked AD&D. F##K HASBRO

 landcruiserlarry wrote:
Hasbro wreaked AD&D. F##K HASBRO

Hasbro had absolutely nothing to do with AD&D. Try again.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 landcruiserlarry wrote:
Hasbro wreaked AD&D. F##K HASBRO

Hasbro had absolutely nothing to do with AD&D. Try again.[/quote




Are you an idiot? ?? Who bought it from wizards of the sword coast? ??? & trashed it. Blo M.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
AD&D was started by TSR. then owned by Wizards of the Sword Coast. Which in turn sold it to Hasbro who then cranked out multiple editions diluting and ruining a great system. I.e. secondedition.AD&D. A town called mulus. Needs to tske a history lesson. Or at least keep quiet about what he or she is ignorant about.

 landcruiserlarry wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 landcruiserlarry wrote:
Hasbro wreaked AD&D. F##K HASBRO

Hasbro had absolutely nothing to do with AD&D. Try again.

Are you an idiot? ?? Who bought it from wizards of the sword coast? ??? & trashed it. Blo M.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
AD&D was started by TSR. then owned by Wizards of the Sword Coast. Which in turn sold it to Hasbro who then cranked out multiple editions diluting and ruining a great system. I.e. secondedition.AD&D. A town called mulus. Needs to tske a history lesson. Or at least keep quiet about what he or she is ignorant about.

GW is the most idiotically run company I have ever seen gross at more than a hundred million a year.

Hasbro on the other hand has earned a strong presence in every facet of the toy industry and shows a surprising deal of respect to it's consumers in it's big lines such as G.I Joe, Transformers, and MLP. WoTC also has the excellently run and handled magic the gathering game and thus experience in how to make a game appeal to both casuals and tournament players.

Hasbro can only make things better.

Also Hasbro will give us far more merchandise, would give us something far better than the Ultramarines movie, and we'd have regular IDW comics for 40k and FB.

Yes, Hasbro should buy GW.

When Milton Bradly released Heroquest it was a breakthrough. Talk about increasing audience, providing lots of cheap miniatures, and giving a way of sliding into the Hobby/getting people interested. I suspect Hasbro would do the same- find innovative ways to lower prices? Releasing a boardgame-style box that's like 40k lite with miniatures that are compatible with 40k? Broaden the audience by making it affordable?

As it's already been said,

 AlexHolker wrote:
There is nowhere to go but up.

Unfortunately, this is not likely to happen.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
You forgot that Michael Bay would also add fanservice to pander to twelve year old boys, crude humor (like robots who piss or have "scrotums") and casual racism to the 40k universe too.

And Megan Fox. And REALLY stupid plots.

No thanks.

40K doesn't already have casual racism?

Not like Mudflap and Skids.

 RatBot wrote:

 landcruiserlarry wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 landcruiserlarry wrote:
Hasbro wreaked AD&D. F##K HASBRO

Hasbro had absolutely nothing to do with AD&D. Try again.

Are you an idiot? ?? Who bought it from wizards of the sword coast? ??? & trashed it. Blo M.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
AD&D was started by TSR. then owned by Wizards of the Sword Coast. Which in turn sold it to Hasbro who then cranked out multiple editions diluting and ruining a great system. I.e. secondedition.AD&D. A town called mulus. Needs to tske a history lesson. Or at least keep quiet about what he or she is ignorant about.

Except if I am not mistaken, Hasboro left WotC to their own devices more or less. WotC ruined DnD, not Hasboro. Also, calling people names is against the forum rules, so there's that.

 landcruiserlarry wrote:
AD&D was started by TSR. then owned by Wizards of the Sword Coast. Which in turn sold it to Hasbro who then cranked out multiple editions diluting and ruining a great system. I.e. secondedition.AD&D. A town called mulus. Needs to tske a history lesson. Or at least keep quiet about what he or she is ignorant about.

A history lesson?

Ad&D Second Edition was published by TSR. Wizards of the Coast (not Sword Coast) purchased TSR. WotC did not sell TSR to Hasbro. WotC itself was purchased by Hasbro.

 landcruiserlarry wrote:
you said and I quote.... Hasbro has absolutely nothing to do with AD&D.... You are completely wrong.. they own it andeventually put Hasbro logo on the product.

They own it. They had nothing to do with developing it.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
You forgot that Michael Bay would also add fanservice to pander to twelve year old boys, crude humor (like robots who piss or have "scrotums") and casual racism to the 40k universe too.

And Megan Fox. And REALLY stupid plots.

No thanks.

40K doesn't already have casual racism?

Not like Mudflap and Skids.

If I'm not wrong, they're supposed to be a parody of white people trying to act black. Wiggers.

It should be made more clear though.

Dark of the Moon fixed that by nixing them altogether, though they were originally to be killed off by Sentinel.

40k has huge amounts of casual sexism and racism with virtually no one of importance being a person of colour or having dual X chromosomes who isn't heavily sexualized.

 Kain wrote:
40k has huge amounts of casual sexism and racism with virtually no one of importance being a person of colour or having dual X chromosomes who isn't heavily sexualized.

A fantasy world that doesn't depict other races can't be considered racist, really. I think they consciously decided to have the Imperium of 40k emulate Medieval European society, in the sense that most people look European and the society resembles something European. There weren't many black or Asian folks living in Medieval Europe, so there aren't many minorities living in the Imperium. This isn't racist- I'd call it a loose emulation of history, overexaggerated and put in a sci-fi-format.

And women are hardly oversexualized in 40k- look at female inquisitors, the Sisters of Battle, etc. They might be a little under-represented (like where are the female IG models?), but I wouldn't call that sexist. Compared to the level of sexism in a lot of other media, I'd almost call the way they portray women in 40k empowering.

 landcruiserlarry wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 landcruiserlarry wrote:
Hasbro wreaked AD&D. F##K HASBRO

Hasbro had absolutely nothing to do with AD&D. Try again.

Are you an idiot? ?? Who bought it from wizards of the sword coast? ??? & trashed it. Blo M.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
AD&D was started by TSR. then owned by Wizards of the Sword Coast. Which in turn sold it to Hasbro who then cranked out multiple editions diluting and ruining a great system. I.e. secondedition.AD&D. A town called mulus. Needs to tske a history lesson. Or at least keep quiet about what he or she is ignorant about.

WotC bought DnD after TSR ran it into the ground through bad management. They released some campaign books which were well liked by fans but not that commercially successful. They then began plans on 3rd edition which many, many players love and which Paizo, using the name Pathfinder, has turned into one of the most successful RPG rulesets on the market.

WotC were bought by Hasbro in 1999. They did not sell DnD to Hasbro. Hasbro also had no impact on 3rd Edition DnD as it had already been in development for at least 2 years before they bought WotC and to change the system would have pushed the release back from its 2000 release.

So I think it is you who actually needs the history lesson.

 ashcroft wrote:
No no no.

The thought of the 40K IP being subjected to the scrutiny of the marketing firm of a mainstream name like Hasbro is too awful to consider. There is no way it would survive in its current form.

Daston wrote:
I don't want another generic scifi game with american action heroes running around shouting 'get some get some.'

This.

40K's IP rights aren't going to go cheap - ever - and any company that spent the money on it would want to recoup their investment quickly - and that means 'broadening the appeal' of the IP, which would turn 40K into a parody of itself.

GW is a public company, and has already been 'sold'. Buy up the shares and you are in control. There is no premium for the IP per se, just a price at which the current owners will sell their shares. So what the OP is actually asking is "do you wish that Hasbro would acquire control of GW". My answer is no.

 ashcroft wrote:
No no no.

The thought of the 40K IP being subjected to the scrutiny of the marketing firm of a mainstream name like Hasbro is too awful to consider. There is no way it would survive in its current form.

Daston wrote:
I don't want another generic scifi game with american action heroes running around shouting 'get some get some.'

This.

40K's IP rights aren't going to go cheap - ever - and any company that spent the money on it would want to recoup their investment quickly - and that means 'broadening the appeal' of the IP, which would turn 40K into a parody of itself.

GW has already turned 40k into a parody of itself. And it only took them a mere 6 years to go from 4e's high to the complete clusterfeth of idiocy it is now.

I could poo on my keyboard and come out with a superior product than what GW's brain damaged neanderthals on it's present design team can manage.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mysterious Pants wrote:

 Kain wrote:
40k has huge amounts of casual sexism and racism with virtually no one of importance being a person of colour or having dual X chromosomes who isn't heavily sexualized.

A fantasy world that doesn't depict other races can't be considered racist, really. I think they consciously decided to have the Imperium of 40k emulate Medieval European society, in the sense that most people look European and the society resembles something European. There weren't many black or Asian folks living in Medieval Europe, so there aren't many minorities living in the Imperium. This isn't racist- I'd call it a loose emulation of history, overexaggerated and put in a sci-fi-format.

And women are hardly oversexualized in 40k- look at female inquisitors, the Sisters of Battle, etc. They might be a little under-represented (like where are the female IG models?), but I wouldn't call that sexist. Compared to the level of sexism in a lot of other media, I'd almost call the way they portray women in 40k empowering.

You see. the social justice warrior in me despises the excuse of "medieval europe with the serial numbers filed off, therefore no minorities." It's why I loathed Star Wars' bad habit of "only black/asian man in the galaxy" and I won't let it stand in 40k. The fact that minorities in 40k are essentially reduced to token characters who are often theme park versions of who they represent (hello Atillans and White Scars) is not something to celebrate or be allowed to stand without protest.

As for sexism: Boobplate is dumb, look at Samus Aran's power suit for armor that is feminine while not being sexualized. Obviously Samus' armor isn't very gothic, but it's a step in the right direction (the Zero suit though I loathe with a passion). And count for me the number of women in 40k who matter. Now count all the men and agendered entities. That's not something to be proud of.

 Kain wrote:

If I'm not wrong, they're supposed to be a parody of white people trying to act black. Wiggers.

It should be made more clear though.

Dark of the Moon fixed that by nixing them altogether, though they were originally to be killed off by Sentinel.

Parody or not, they weren't funny, they were just some of the worst bits of casual racism to ever make it to the Silver Screen in recent years.

 Kain wrote:
40k has huge amounts of casual sexism and racism with virtually no one of importance being a person of colour or having dual X chromosomes who isn't heavily sexualized.

I don't know that many female characters in 40k who are sexualized. If you mean the models, then sure Daemonettes where pretty sexualized back in the day and Lelith wears a thong for no good reason and Repentia need a redesign that ditches the hoods (they're supposed to be dressed in rags made from their old robes, not dressed like they're going to a masquerade party on a really low budget), but outside of that the setting has women dressed in a LOT more clothing than most other settings, puts them in every sort of position imaginable (outside of Orks who are asexual, Space Marines, Knights (unless you ignore stupid fluff), and Daemons who don't have sexes as they're not even humanoid normally (currents of raw emotion and energy given form). You'll note I don't mention Nids because they're either asexual or female (Nord Queens who are largely in charge of their parts of the Hive Fleet and only answer to the Hive Mind as a whole, and Necrons have female characters and can easily have more, you just can't tell when everyone starts with the same basic robot skeleton chassis.).

The only "racism" that GW has ever perpetuated was painting most of their models caucasian. They don't have the Salamanders running around sounding like parodies of rap starts, or the White Scars looking like a generic Asian stereotype for laughs.

Now are there things GW could do to improve things? Sure. More colors other than "white, really white, slightly tanned and so black that it describes the color instead of the race" for paint schemes (and then put out tutorials to teach the same), female models options mixed into the Guard armies, put some pants on Lelith, and redesign the Repentia to look more fanatical and less BDSM-y and we're pretty much there.

On the other hand you throw Michael Bay into the mix and Megan Fox will be a poorly dressed IG Officer who bends over to show off her thong all the time (and has to be saved by her Space Marine love interest(s)), pop culture references that don't fit, Orks who sound like black stereotypes instead of just sounding like they've run into a wall one too many times head first, and yeah....I just can't imagine it'd be GOOD.

I should probably bow out of the thread before my hate of GW gets me in trouble. But I will say that I believe that GW is *ahem*

GW is a collection of the worst scum in gaming, no calling them scum is offensive to actual pond scum which preforms a vital function in the ecosystem. GW's current staff is comprised of idiots, no lower than idiots. They are stupid, incompetent, lazy, greedy, meanspirited, and boorish fools who clearly create their products by slapping their dicks on the keyboard. Their vile lust for money is so great that they would swear allegiance to Hitler in a synagogue and piss on Schindler's grave if it would earn them a few pennies more. I would call them vermin but such would be doing vermin a disservice.

Not a single ounce of competence or intelligence has graced the halls of GW in years, as even the lowliest of Bacteria would look upon the gathering of unseemly moneygrubbers there and realize that their presence would profane their existences. Almost everything GW has done since Escalation has been a monument to the depthless bounds of human stupidity. Actually scratch that, that would imply that the blobs of meat in GW are human, and I would rather not associate our species with such organisms as they. Were the GW design staff to die tomorrow, I would salt and exorcise their graves so that no demons of stupidity could spread from their surely tainted corpses.

Anything is better than GW.

Honestly, while you can claim many things about the devs calling the devs themselves "greedy" or "mean spiritied" doesn't seem right. The devs don't make money directly on their work, they only get paid a wage. Likewise, I've never seen, nor heard of anything they've done that has specifically felt "mean spirited". "Misguided" or "lazy" perhaps but not "mean spirited".

I honestly don't think the dev team has ill intent, I feel what they have is some really screwed up design goals passed to them from management.

With Hasbro being American, and myself being British, there's not much I know about it, but, as far as I can gather, Hasbro is a toy company, not a miniatures company. I know you can say that minis are sort of like toys, but I'm on about Lego and Transformers and fluffly toys, things that are undeniably different to miniatures.

Most of the complaints I see about GW are to do with bad rules etc, not about their models, so I think that if Hasbro would simply turn the company into more of a "toy company". They'd give even less thought to the rules, possibly even simplify them ridiculously to a "chess-like" level, and just concentrate on selling toys. It'd be terrible.

Yes, perhaps prices would be better, and we'd get things like reward cards, offers and better customer service, but GW is fundamentally a wargames company, and I think Hasbro would just ruin that.

@The Shadow

Hasbro also own Wizards Of The Coast, and so, by extension, D+D and Magic.

Their MO seems to be to allow their sub divisions to run themselves, as long as they're doing so successfully. A strong argument against them acquiring GW is that they seem to go after companies that aren't in need of a lot of fixing, and therefore don't need extensive knowledge of how to operate in a particular niche, not some thing that seems to fit GW right now.

 The Shadow wrote:
With Hasbro being American, and myself being British, there's not much I know about it, but, as far as I can gather, Hasbro is a toy company, not a miniatures company.

What you might have missed, though, is that Hasbro also owns Wizards of the Coast, which makes Dungeons & Dragons and Magic: The Gathering. They also own the Avalon Hill brand, under which they sell several boardgames (mostly variations of Axis & Allies) along with a miniatures game (also named Axis & Allies). Of course, I'm sure the vast bulk of Hasbro's yearly sales comes from toys (and their licensing) and not from the WotC and AH divisions.

edit: ninja'd

 azreal13 wrote:
A strong argument against them acquiring GW is that they seem to go after companies that aren't in need of a lot of fixing, and therefore don't need extensive knowledge of how to operate in a particular niche, not some thing that seems to fit GW right now.

What could happen, though, is that when GW's stock prices fall low enough, Hasbro could still pick them up, move all production to China, and move all design and development under WotC's umbrella (but still maintaining the Games Workshop name like they did with Avalon Hill). And then they can use the Games Workshop brand to push miniatures-based games like they do for boardgames under Avalon Hill.

Granted, I guess it all depends on the specific celestial alignment when risk/reward/effort all come together in the right way.

 Kain wrote:
I should probably bow out of the thread before my hate of GW gets me in trouble. But I will say that I believe that GW is *ahem*

GW is a collection of the worst scum in gaming, no calling them scum is offensive to actual pond scum which preforms a vital function in the ecosystem. GW's current staff is comprised of idiots, no lower than idiots. They are stupid, incompetent, lazy, greedy, meanspirited, and boorish fools who clearly create their products by slapping their dicks on the keyboard. Their vile lust for money is so great that they would swear allegiance to Hitler in a synagogue and piss on Schindler's grave if it would earn them a few pennies more. I would call them vermin but such would be doing vermin a disservice.

Not a single ounce of competence or intelligence has graced the halls of GW in years, as even the lowliest of Bacteria would look upon the gathering of unseemly moneygrubbers there and realize that their presence would profane their existences. Almost everything GW has done since Escalation has been a monument to the depthless bounds of human stupidity. Actually scratch that, that would imply that the blobs of meat in GW are human, and I would rather not associate our species with such organisms as they. Were the GW design staff to die tomorrow, I would salt and exorcise their graves so that no demons of stupidity could spread from their surely tainted corpses.

Anything is better than GW.

Ladies and gentlemen, you've just had a chance to read one of the finest examples of ultra nerdrage in human history.

I've never even came close to a GW fanboi but really, this is too much and some.

And Escalation, people asked for it for years and they were legion. Sure it's poorly done but still.

Plumbumbarum wrote:

 Kain wrote:
I should probably bow out of the thread before my hate of GW gets me in trouble. But I will say that I believe that GW is *ahem*

GW is a collection of the worst scum in gaming, no calling them scum is offensive to actual pond scum which preforms a vital function in the ecosystem. GW's current staff is comprised of idiots, no lower than idiots. They are stupid, incompetent, lazy, greedy, meanspirited, and boorish fools who clearly create their products by slapping their dicks on the keyboard. Their vile lust for money is so great that they would swear allegiance to Hitler in a synagogue and piss on Schindler's grave if it would earn them a few pennies more. I would call them vermin but such would be doing vermin a disservice.

Not a single ounce of competence or intelligence has graced the halls of GW in years, as even the lowliest of Bacteria would look upon the gathering of unseemly moneygrubbers there and realize that their presence would profane their existences. Almost everything GW has done since Escalation has been a monument to the depthless bounds of human stupidity. Actually scratch that, that would imply that the blobs of meat in GW are human, and I would rather not associate our species with such organisms as they. Were the GW design staff to die tomorrow, I would salt and exorcise their graves so that no demons of stupidity could spread from their surely tainted corpses.

Anything is better than GW.

Ladies and gentlemen, you've just had a chance to read one of the finest examples of ultra nerdrage in human history.

Yeah I haven't bothered contributing to this thread and after a 5 minute read I think I shall bow out before I start. Half of the posts are ridiculous, and most of the rest are demonstrably wrong. Throw in a few ridiculous PC comments that somehow manage to bring racism into the discussion, add a bit of truly absurd flag waving and a little bit of jingoism, and you have a thread that pretty much makes it look as if the majority of hobbyists struggle to read anything at all, let alone a broadsheet newspaper.

For myself, I am on the fence again.... and in these ridiculously black and white discussions, its the only sensible place to be.

Plumbumbarum wrote:

btw I'm not some Britain lover but just like any other European country they have times more class when it comes to art. Sorry Americans, just an opinion.

Alex melon-fething Ross

 Fafnir wrote:

Plumbumbarum wrote:

btw I'm not some Britain lover but just like any other European country they have times more class when it comes to art. Sorry Americans, just an opinion.

Alex mollyclonking Ross

John 'crap on a matte board and cover it with water colors' Blanche, as well. (That is a paraphrase of how Mr. Blanche described his own art after he had to change his style to match the faster drawing that GW wanted.)

GW is a company that used to have good artists, and used to have good sculptors. Not a company that has many left of either.

The Auld Grump


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 landcruiserlarry wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 landcruiserlarry wrote:
Hasbro wreaked AD&D. F##K HASBRO

Hasbro had absolutely nothing to do with AD&D. Try again.

Are you an idiot? ?? Who bought it from wizards of the sword coast? ??? & trashed it. Blo M.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
AD&D was started by TSR. then owned by Wizards of the Sword Coast. Which in turn sold it to Hasbro who then cranked out multiple editions diluting and ruining a great system. I.e. secondedition.AD&D. A town called mulus. Needs to tske a history lesson. Or at least keep quiet about what he or she is ignorant about.

WotC bought DnD after TSR ran it into the ground through bad management. They released some campaign books which were well liked by fans but not that commercially successful. They then began plans on 3rd edition which many, many players love and which Paizo, using the name Pathfinder, has turned into one of the most successful RPG rulesets on the market.

WotC were bought by Hasbro in 1999. They did not sell DnD to Hasbro. Hasbro also had no impact on 3rd Edition DnD as it had already been in development for at least 2 years before they bought WotC and to change the system would have pushed the release back from its 2000 release.

So I think it is you who actually needs the history lesson.

Hasbro didn't even have much of a direct effect on the failure that was 4e. While the success of the 3.X architecture can be laid firmly to WotC, so to can the marketing fumble that crippled 4e before it was even released. (A hint to game companies out there - insulting and/or otherwise alienating your existing player base is not an effective way to gain a new fan base. Yes, GW... I am talking about you.)

Likewise - TSR was under management that was openly dismissive of the players of the game that they were selling.

The Auld Grump

Personally I think GW still has good sculptors. There are very few things they put put model wise I look at and find to be legitimately headscratching.

I think they just need to master their CAD system a little more and spend a little longer touching models up before stamping them "done" as it's pretty clear sometimes that a little more work could have gone into some of them.