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Oh you people....thinking Hasbro will do anything but gut the model line down to the best selling races and turn the game into a shadow of what it is/was. You make me laugh....have fun with your unrealistic whine fest!
I loved reading this thank you. I liked 4e but Pathfinder just blew it out of the water by staying true to what people knew. 4e was a great 'beginners' tabletop rpg. The ritual system needed fixing and that was it really. The problem was the treatment of the old guard, and that does parallel a bit on what is going on with GW. The old guard is gone, and you got a lot of young 'directionless' people trying to get in on the popularity.
Which Old Guard, the ones that still play AD&D, 1st ed, 2st ed, or 3ed? Or the ones that still play
The thing about 40k is that there's usually one group of old guard, rather then splintered factions who stick with one version of the game because that was 'best', its old faction hasn't really splintered so hard you have different names for those of different faction users.
Which is why the DnD 5E is trying to grab pieces from all of them and have a modifiable system for it. Of course it's really unfriendly towards 4E players who actually enjoyed the game and seems to have cut from it the most in all things, so they are continuing their treatment by treating 4E as the one's to cut around now.
Pathfinder I found was simply 3.7 as said, didn't really fix the issue of Magic > everything, one drop frontloaded classes, and being a munchkin optimizers wet dream.
I would have been much happier if GW had just refined 3e, rather than changing things for the sake of change.
That's all that they have done though. 40k is basically the same game now as it was in 99(?), the rules aren't the same of course but they aren't all that different and the overall feel of the game has remained approximately the same. Of course he prime driver behind rules 'updates' is to keep the game 'fresh' and to make people buy a new rulebook every few years rather than actually improve the game.
In my view GW should either create a ruleset completely from scratch or they should go back to 2nd ed and use that as a base. Neither of these things will ever happen though.
RegalPhantom wrote: If your fluff doesn't fit, change your fluff until it does
The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog
I loved reading this thank you. I liked 4e but Pathfinder just blew it out of the water by staying true to what people knew. 4e was a great 'beginners' tabletop rpg. The ritual system needed fixing and that was it really. The problem was the treatment of the old guard, and that does parallel a bit on what is going on with GW. The old guard is gone, and you got a lot of young 'directionless' people trying to get in on the popularity.
Which Old Guard, the ones that still play AD&D, 1st ed, 2st ed, or 3ed? Or the ones that still play
The thing about 40k is that there's usually one group of old guard, rather then splintered factions who stick with one version of the game because that was 'best', its old faction hasn't really splintered so hard you have different names for those of different faction users.
Which is why the DnD 5E is trying to grab pieces from all of them and have a modifiable system for it. Of course it's really unfriendly towards 4E players who actually enjoyed the game and seems to have cut from it the most in all things, so they are continuing their treatment by treating 4E as the one's to cut around now.
Pathfinder I found was simply 3.7 as said, didn't really fix the issue of Magic > everything, one drop frontloaded classes, and being a munchkin optimizers wet dream.
You really have not played Pathfinder much, have you? Or even much looked at it?
The over all damage dealer in my campaigns have been the fighters - with the wizard and sorcerer artillery only softening up the target before the infantry and caissons roll in.
Classes are back loaded - with the level 20 cap being the high point. (I would have preferred having the capstone power at around level 15 or so, just so the PCs have a chance to play around with it a bit more.)
Skill ranks are now evenly distributed through all the levels - there is no X4 multiplier for first level.
This is a view that I built up over the entire time of Pathfinder, including the Beta, and running/playing an average of two games a week.
And munchkins have been with us, always. No need to blame 3.X or Pathfinder - there were plenty in beige box D&D.
As for 'The Old Guard' - yes, all of the above. From OD&D to 3.5 - WotC insulted them all in the run up to 4e.
4e - the edition where the publisher decided to tell the players not to bother updating their campaigns and characters, just start over.
Where WotC told people that the way that they were running their games was wrong. (Look up the fairy ring quote and the quote about the Guards At The Gate.)
ALL the previous editions - from AD&D to 3.5, and including Pathfinder, had notes on HOW to convert - 4e just said not to bother.
4e deserved to die, not because of the game itself, but the way that WotC had tried to enforce a single style of play. But the 4e players and fans did not deserve what WotC had done to cripple their game before ever it was released.
The onus is nearly entirely on WotC. (Not Hasbro - WotC. They were hoist by their own petard.)
The Auld Grump
Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.
The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
Uh... no. I, unlike most, dont have any problems with 40k or WHFBs. GW's done a nice job, and its a fun thing to play. I only play friendly games though, no tournaments (Well, I do do some tournaments at my FLGS, but to me they're just friendly games with a reward)
You guys are crazy to think that hasbro would improve things. Look at what they are doing to action figures, they are making 5 point articulation figures. If they got a hold of GW we will end up with rubberized plastic figures cause they are cheap or some other undesireable alternative.
Dax415 wrote: You guys are crazy to think that hasbro would improve things. Look at what they are doing to action figures, they are making 5 point articulation figures.
?
Transformers are more articulate than ever(not counting the gimmick lines and TItan line). Same with Star Wars(seriously, the Black Series is amazing).
In fact, Hasbro's stuff was getting so complex and articulate for a time, parents complained cause their kids were getting frustrated with the toys. The result is they tend to now do a "kids line" for things, too, which is where you're seeing these 5 point articulation figures. In fact, I find it's their competitors who are failing with articulation. The newer Power Ranger lines get less and less articulate every year.
Hasbro's in a really good place with regards to their design teams being able to develop lines for both mainstream toy buyers and collectors.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2014/05/22 16:43:17
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
I'm curious, are there any actual examples of Hasbro buying an IP, dumbing it down, white washing it to make it child friendly when it wasn't before, and then pumping out action figures for it?
I don't follow this sort of stuff but it just seems like half the 'no' votes in this thread are because no one wants to see a space marine action figure but I can't fathom why people would think Hasbro would do that all of a sudden.
Fafnir wrote: Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
Tigramans wrote: I dunno. The only thing I can see in my mind is "My Little Grimdark - Friendship is Heresy".
This kind of thing baffles me. You think Hasbro will dumb things down? Because GW isn't doing that right now? At least Hasbro is competent. Besides GW's greed and bizarre paranoia/spitefulness, I get a huge incompetency vibe from them.
jonolikespie wrote: I'm curious, are there any actual examples of Hasbro buying an IP, dumbing it down, white washing it to make it child friendly when it wasn't before, and then pumping out action figures for it?
I don't follow this sort of stuff but it just seems like half the 'no' votes in this thread are because no one wants to see a space marine action figure but I can't fathom why people would think Hasbro would do that all of a sudden.
Personally, I'd love a Space Marine action figure.
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
Tigramans wrote: I dunno. The only thing I can see in my mind is "My Little Grimdark - Friendship is Heresy".
This kind of thing baffles me. You think Hasbro will dumb things down? Because GW isn't doing that right now? At least Hasbro is competent. Besides GW's greed and bizarre paranoia/spitefulness, I get a huge incompetency vibe from them.
The really funny part is that while GW are letting the grimdark leak out of 40k MLP has had some really dark stuff considering its about colourful ponies these last few seasons.
Fafnir wrote: Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
Dax415 wrote: You guys are crazy to think that hasbro would improve things. Look at what they are doing to action figures, they are making 5 point articulation figures.
?
Transformers are more articulate than ever(not counting the gimmick lines and TItan line). Same with Star Wars(seriously, the Black Series is amazing).
In fact, Hasbro's stuff was getting so complex and articulate for a time, parents complained cause their kids were getting frustrated with the toys. The result is they tend to now do a "kids line" for things, too, which is where you're seeing these 5 point articulation figures. In fact, I find it's their competitors who are failing with articulation. The newer Power Ranger lines get less and less articulate every year.
Hasbro's in a really good place with regards to their design teams being able to develop lines for both mainstream toy buyers and collectors.
Parents complaining of the articulation is a Hasbro Farce cooked up by their PR department. While hunting down figures for my nephew I cant believe how many times I've heard a kid say I dont want the stiff action figure. Series 1 and 2 are still sitting on the shelves. Those things are not flying off the shelves and are peg warmers. I still stand by what I said about Hasbro, this company is willing to take a step back if there is perceived profit. The likely scenario is they give this acquistion to WOC division of their company. The same section who screwed D&D and a host of other games. That's the track record I"m looking at. If this were a family type game or they wanted to turn this into a card game like MtG, then this is the company to do it.
I would have been much happier if GW had just refined 3e, rather than changing things for the sake of change.
That's all that they have done though. 40k is basically the same game now as it was in 99(?), the rules aren't the same of course but they aren't all that different and the overall feel of the game has remained approximately the same. Of course he prime driver behind rules 'updates' is to keep the game 'fresh' and to make people buy a new rulebook every few years rather than actually improve the game.
In my view GW should either create a ruleset completely from scratch or they should go back to 2nd ed and use that as a base. Neither of these things will ever happen though.
No, 40k and WHFB aren't remotely the same games that they were in the 90's. The basic core mechanics are the same, you are right, but the constantly pile up of unnecessary rules bloat, miniatures bloat, combined with the dumbing down and randomization of every tactical aspect of both games has had the result that both games play like completely different (and worse) versions of their earlier editions.
Parents complaining of the articulation is a Hasbro Farce cooked up by their PR department. While hunting down figures for my nephew I cant believe how many times I've heard a kid say I dont want the stiff action figure. Series 1 and 2 are still sitting on the shelves. Those things are not flying off the shelves and are peg warmers. I still stand by what I said about Hasbro, this company is willing to take a step back if there is perceived profit. The likely scenario is they give this acquistion to WOC division of their company. The same section who screwed D&D and a host of other games. That's the track record I"m looking at. If this were a family type game or they wanted to turn this into a card game like MtG, then this is the company to do it.
You do realize it was WOTC a Hasbro company that bought the burning wreckage that was TSR, and SAVED D&D in the form of 3.0, and put in back on the map with 3.5 right?
My beloved 40K armies:
Children of Stirba Order of Saint Pan Thera
Dax415 wrote: The same section who screwed D&D and a host of other games.
You have a really bizarre definition of "screwed" when WOTC is the company that released the entire 3rd/3.5 edition rules under a license that allowed anyone to use them in a for-profit product, without paying any license fees, as long as they credited the D20 system and didn't use any of the D&D fluff. The D&D replacements that everyone loves wouldn't exist at all without WOTC being insanely generous to the D&D community. And yeah, 4th edition was a failed attempt to market to the WoW crowd, but you know what WOTC did about it? They took community feedback and started working on a new edition that gives people what they want to see. Can you imagine GW doing either of those things?
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Peregrine wrote: They took community feedback and started working on a new edition that gives people what they want to see. Can you imagine GW doing either of those things?
I remember fondly WOTC gathering customer feedback in the run up to their Star Wars RPG, I think Mel was the name of their Marketing Manager. She solicited feedback via the old SW-RPG mailing list. The feedback was an adamant NOT D20.
So they went with D20.
Mel kept positive and fought to win players over to the new game, which I believe she did.
So WOTC rewarded her by making her redundant with the reason "Star Wars can sell itself, it doesn't need a marketing manager."
Thanks Wizards, you suck.
Apologies for talking positively about games I enjoy.
Orkz Rokk!!!
Peregrine wrote: They took community feedback and started working on a new edition that gives people what they want to see. Can you imagine GW doing either of those things?
I remember fondly WOTC gathering customer feedback in the run up to their Star Wars RPG, I think Mel was the name of their Marketing Manager. She solicited feedback via the old SW-RPG mailing list. The feedback was an adamant NOT D20.
So they went with D20.
Mel kept positive and fought to win players over to the new game, which I believe she did.
So WOTC rewarded her by making her redundant with the reason "Star Wars can sell itself, it doesn't need a marketing manager."
Thanks Wizards, you suck.
I'm still adamant that a Hasbro buyout would be a good thing despite things like this.
Why?
That sounds like an example of Hasbro (and it's subsidiaries) doing a pretty crappy job. But then there are also examples of them doing good thing.
Hasbro is neither a perfect company, nor a company incapable of doing anything right. They are just an average company.
In my eyes GW are not an average company, GW have done quite a bit in the last couple of years that, frankly, either severely disappointed me off or made me scratch my head and wonder why?
Hasbro have the potential for good and bad. I have given up on actually seeing anything good from GW.
Fafnir wrote: Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
Dax415 wrote: The same section who screwed D&D and a host of other games.
You have a really bizarre definition of "screwed" when WOTC is the company that released the entire 3rd/3.5 edition rules under a license that allowed anyone to use them in a for-profit product, without paying any license fees, as long as they credited the D20 system and didn't use any of the D&D fluff. The D&D replacements that everyone loves wouldn't exist at all without WOTC being insanely generous to the D&D community. And yeah, 4th edition was a failed attempt to market to the WoW crowd, but you know what WOTC did about it? They took community feedback and started working on a new edition that gives people what they want to see. Can you imagine GW doing either of those things?
5th edition is cutting 4E's community feedback and generally adding in far more to please the 3.XE crowd at the cost, to the point of taking their sides in the 'edition wars' on the forum while silencing 4E players
I wouldn't say they are doing perfect on that either, but it's still better then GW's I suppose...
Dax415 wrote: The same section who screwed D&D and a host of other games.
You have a really bizarre definition of "screwed" when WOTC is the company that released the entire 3rd/3.5 edition rules under a license that allowed anyone to use them in a for-profit product, without paying any license fees, as long as they credited the D20 system and didn't use any of the D&D fluff. The D&D replacements that everyone loves wouldn't exist at all without WOTC being insanely generous to the D&D community. And yeah, 4th edition was a failed attempt to market to the WoW crowd, but you know what WOTC did about it? They took community feedback and started working on a new edition that gives people what they want to see. Can you imagine GW doing either of those things?
5th edition is cutting 4E's community feedback and generally adding in far more to please the 3.XE crowd at the cost, to the point of taking their sides in the 'edition wars' on the forum while silencing 4E players
I wouldn't say they are doing perfect on that either, but it's still better then GW's I suppose...
I have seen some of that 'feedback'... some of those folks really did need to be cut off.
When a 4e fan has been articulate and well spoken their concerns have been addressed - sometimes the answer has been 'no', but more often it has been 'not in the initial release'. WotC intends to release a more tactical module for the system, but is first concentrating on regaining lost ground.
I do not consider 4e to be a failed game, I consider it to have suffered from a fumbled Profession [Marketing] roll....
5e... has a lot of ground to recapture before WotC tries to regain any lost 4e players - but the 4e players are on the lighter side of the teeter totter. There are fewer of them, to put things simply.
GW is kind of in the same position with the latest edition of 40K - the most recent edition lost them marketshare - it is very early for a new edition, but the previous edition hurt them.
It does not much matter to me - I intend to skip the new versions of both 40K and D&D.
The Auld Grump
Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.
The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
I think the main question will be whether the company that buys GW will look at Warhammer etc. as a competitive game or a casual experience.
If they go for the competitive angle they're going to simplify the game to the bone, adjust the prices, and focus on trying to grow the game through regional, national, and international tournaments and functions while allowing the distribution be through independent retailers.
If they go for the casual experience as the focus they're going to try for deep flavorful fluffy but elegant rules and produce the quality product and sell it.
Games Workshop has a name people recognize. They have IP which is well liked. They have loads of existing product. You don't buy GW to make a quick buck, because you won't. Its a long term commitment that if handled correctly could produce profits.
They'd definitely want to focus on a global business model. What you have to do is make the product in the UK and focus sales in the United States, European Union, and East Asia. Not the East Midlands. That's 2 Billion people between what is effectively 3 countries, two of which know English.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/05/26 22:19:43
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
The thing is also that it wouldn't take a whole lot to get 40k to a good point. A year or so tops if you have a decent team.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
The centre of a massive brood chamber, heaving and pulsating.
As I believe has been mentioned, Hasbro have been pretty good at pissing of its fanbase.
I'm on Seibertron.com, and it's quite a similar story to Dakka with people left and right crying about what an awful company Hasbro is and how much they suck and how they're going to go third-party only. Reasons of course vary, although ATM it's about the simplified engineering on the newer Transformers- which has been quite piss-poor in places.
So no, I don't think Hasbro would be a good choice. They'd be just as likely to run 40K into the ground (moreso in fact) and to be honest I don't think they'd care. Why bother marketing the ultra-violent British collectible wargame when they can make loads of money by selling PVC horses to manchildren?
As I've said before, Bandai would be the perfect choice. They're the 3rd biggest toy/model manufacturer in the world, they actually make models already, and they get stuff done, and done well. Case in point, their Gundam models. Fully articulated, highly detailed, mechanically accurate renditions of the Mobile Suits from the animes, with a fully detailed inner frame and even opening cockpits.Imagine Bandai releasing a 1/100 fully articulated, fully detailed Reaver Titan. Given their incredible proficiency with model engineering, I reckon they'd be able to turn out some absolutely astounding miniatures.
Another thing worth mentioning is that Bandai never destroys their molds, and still reissue their older kits. The Unit 01 TV ver LM-HG model, for example, is from 1997- over 14 years old now. It's still produced and reissued, and on top of that, even today it's considered a superb model. If they could get the molds I wouldn't doubt Bandai would reissue some of the older models that GW made.
As for the rules, Bandai has connections with some of the biggest companies in the world. It wouldn't surprise me if they could hire out a skilled set of rules-writers to do the ruleset.
Finally, Bandai are businessmen without equal. They know how to manage a brand and keep the fanbase happy. I can guarantee that they'd know how to treat GW's IP well.
Of course it is a Japanese company so whether or not they'd be interested in buying GW is up for debate. Admittedly the only reason they stopped selling Gunpla in the US was because of heavily declining sales (Thanks G Gundam and your terrible designs!) so there is hope.
Squigsquasher, resident ban magnet, White Knight, and general fethwit.
buddha wrote: I've decided that these GW is dead/dying threads that pop up every-week must be followers and cultists of nurgle perpetuating the need for decay. I therefore declare that that such threads are heresy and subject to exterminatus. So says the Inquisition!
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Well, the issue with that would be that you'd have a model company buying a model company.
GW needs to be bought by someone who'll fix the rules. There's nothing wrong the physical product, its absolutely fantastic. There is a problem with the game side of the business.
Whoever buys GW needs to fix the game, not the models. They don't need to touch the model line at all.
Bandai is purely a model company, like GW claims themselves to be. Hasbro on the other hand is a toy/game company, and adept at selling games that use toys.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/02 03:29:59
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Squigsquasher wrote: Why bother marketing the ultra-violent British collectible wargame when they can make loads of money by selling PVC horses to manchildren?
Because, unlike GW, they know that these are not mutually exclusive concepts. They're capable of marketing both product lines, the only reason to drop 40k would be if it's not a profitable business anymore. And in that case why buy the IP in the first place?
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
the problem with GW is often described as being that of "suits on the exec board forcibng bad decisions that hurt the game long term"
this pretty much describes WOTC's handling of D&D.
even the much loved third edition of D&D was FAR from perfect. I'm not talking about flaws in the rules eaither, but WOTC persued a policy of releasing new rules books on a monthly basis, that slowly power creeped up.
I loved third edition, but Haesbro made some decisions that where perhaps questionable.
ultimatly the biggest mistake they made was 4th edition. where they destroyed their existing fanbase to chase one that doesn't exist (all the people who play MMOs and would proably play paper and pen... did)
it didn't help that they where making the rules essentially to try to sell their CMG. whose market COMPLETLY COLLAPSED right before 4th edition launched
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
jonolikespie wrote: The really funny part is that while GW are letting the grimdark leak out of 40k MLP has had some really dark stuff considering its about colourful ponies these last few seasons.
Last few seasons ? U sure ?
Spoiler:
S1E04 : Applejack's burnout.
S1E08 : First Applejack/Rarity War.
S1E09 : First occurence of racial segregation.
S1E10 : Ponyville is destroyed by Star Trek critters.
S1E12 : First Applejack/RainbowDash open conflict.
S1E17 : Fluttershy stare officially scares me.
S1E21 : More racial segregation. After the african-americans, the natives... S1E25 : Pinkie Pie going BASHIT INSANE. S2E1/2 : Q's in da place ! Anarchy rules, the princess drools. S2E3 : Damn, even the main protagonist is crazier than Gollum...
S2E10 : Spike's turn to destroy everything.
S2E11 : Clergy/Nobility/Third State conflicts. What a wonderful world !
S2E19 : That mean Fluttershy b**ch...
S2E20 : More Twilight's nevroses, and some epic mindfrak at the end...
S2E25/26 : Dopplegangers everywhere, assault on world leaders, kidnapping, mind control, interdimensional portals, WWIII, guerilla fighting and party cannons of mass destruction.
That was just the two very first seasons... S4 has some insane moments too, especially in the opening and the finale.
Spoiler:
Celestia going down and banishing her sister... All Twilight's books, all her memories, going POOF in a big Kamehameha...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/06/02 13:10:59
even the much loved third edition of D&D was FAR from perfect. I'm not talking about flaws in the rules eaither, but WOTC persued a policy of releasing new rules books on a monthly basis, that slowly power creeped up.
The problem is that the power creep was already in the first book, you could make a broken CoDzilla or Wizard alone with the first core book with core spells, as Monte Cook usually does when he gets his hands on helping.
I have seen some of that 'feedback'... some of those folks really did need to be cut off.
Considering some of the other sides arguments, it's kinda hard to swallow when they enjoy cuffing 4th as they do.
When a 4e fan has been articulate and well spoken their concerns have been addressed - sometimes the answer has been 'no', but more often it has been 'not in the initial release'. WotC intends to release a more tactical module for the system, but is first concentrating on regaining lost ground.
The problem with that is, that's not really going to help the system.
Generally first book wins, expansions and all that usually get pushed out but are usually generally arbitrary. Whatever is in the first core is going to become the standard regardless of 'modules', while Hasbro isn't as bad as GW in this regard, you'll see pretty much no updates outside of those to core, not any 'modules'.
5e... has a lot of ground to recapture before WotC tries to regain any lost 4e players - but the 4e players are on the lighter side of the teeter totter. There are fewer of them, to put things simply.
Considering that the alternative is hoping you pull players from pathfinder, spitting on the current fanbase again after essentials to try and nab that market isn't going to help them at all.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/06/03 11:47:12
Innocentia Nihil Probat. 
Son of Dorn 
Children of Stirba 
Order of Saint Pan Thera 
