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Puscifer wrote:
I'm really surprised that we are talking DE when BA are after Orks.

Change in release order?

Do DE need it more?

Of course BA need it more... exactly why we shall take that away! Mwahahaha!

Puscifer wrote:
I'm really surprised that we are talking DE when BA are after Orks.

Change in release order?

Do DE need it more?

No. If you follow the links in the first post, the projected release schedule shows Orks, then BA, then Dark Eldar. I was under the impression that once we got substantiated rumors about releases we started a rumors thread on it. If you'd like to start one for Blood Angels, then I'd be happy to come post there.


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And not only do the BA need it more, out of the two, I might go so far as to say they're the only one that needs it at all!

Well, I know that I need more plastic kits. That's enough

 Jimsolo wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
I'm really surprised that we are talking DE when BA are after Orks.
Change in release order?
Do DE need it more?

And not only do the BA need it more, out of the two, I might go so far as to say they're the only one that needs it at all!

Not even sure of that. BA have to play their crazy drop list or exploit their fast vehicles, but they are still marines. Overwatch didnt just neuter all of their assault units. They can still ally Battle Brothers with half the armies in the game.

 Exergy wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
I'm really surprised that we are talking DE when BA are after Orks.
Change in release order?
Do DE need it more?

And not only do the BA need it more, out of the two, I might go so far as to say they're the only one that needs it at all!

Not even sure of that. BA have to play their crazy drop list or exploit their fast vehicles, but they are still marines. Overwatch didnt just neuter all of their assault units. They can still ally Battle Brothers with half the armies in the game.

Don't know if you've seen it yet but the BA FAQs are up on Black Library right now. As are Dark Eldar.

 Exergy wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 Archonate wrote:
If they get rid of a character, it really should be The Decapitator. GW just never got him right.
According to the books, he's like a ghost that steps out of a victims shadow, slices off the head and disappears with it. Even other mandrakes never perceive his passage.

The derpy, useless, easily killed character we've been given is a grotesque parody of what Kheradruakh should be like. He SHOULD be able to assassinate and Imperial assassin without a fight.

Turn him into the random force of nature that he ought to be or don't even give us the option. In either case, he shouldn't have stats. He should just be something that happens here and there. This way, he'll never NEED a model.

Or just give him always strikes first as a special rule?

as he stands he could have 50 WS10 STR10 AP2 attacks that always strike first and he still would never be taken. He is 3 T3 wounds with a 5++ and no grenades that must always be alone. The kind of firepower needed to kill him the turn he arrives is the kind of firepower that every army has waiting around looking for a target, and him showing up is a giftwrapped near 200 points for them to kill.


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 Sasori wrote:


What rules are bending them over? The jink isn't a big deal, since they have Flickerfields.

UNless I'm missing something else?

Raiders and Ravagers can take Flickerfields, it just means they are going to each cost 10 points more, so a 7th edition DE army will have 1 less vehicle than before. Not a good start, but not the type of thing that totally ruined DE in 6th.

I always take Flickerfields on everything anyway so its not going to do anything to my game at all


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Im really hopeful that the Tantalus moves over from FW and the 2 Flyers get dropped down to Fast Attack as at the moment between the choice of the Flyers and Ravagers its a pretty easy choice.

It'd be nice if they actually released that Voidraven, but I think at this point they're more likely just to drop the entry entirely like they did with the Tyranid Mycetic Spore.

Other than that, I'm just hoping for more character models for all the SC's they have.

Vect will get a model, Sathonix will get a model, Malys being so central to the fluff will likely get one and Sliscus might as well, the rest I am not so sure about on the basis they either have models or are not used.

I have 3 Razorwings, not too bothered about the Voidraven unless they keep it HS and move Razorwings to FA, even if that means the RWJ's drop to 2 hull pts, id be happy with that.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sathonix gets dropped completely because of this.

If anyone gets a model, it would be Sliscus, and it'd be a 2 in 1 with an Archon. Like the Hive Tyrant/Swarmlord kit.

 Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if Sathonix gets dropped completely because of this.

If anyone gets a model, it would be Sliscus, and it'd be a 2 in 1 with an Archon. Like the Hive Tyrant/Swarmlord kit.

Honestly, I don't think that one is going to put the Sathonyx character out. Other 'not-GW' models can get away with their existence if the unit never had a model, since the courts have distinguished a difference between the rules and the model as separate IPs. HOWEVER, that model is a DIRECT rip-off of the picture of Baron Sathonyx from the DE Codex. Going after the original manufacture in any kind of civilized court would be a slam dunk. Now, that being said, it's entirely possible that the manufacturer is operating out of some hellhole in the middle of nowhere, where IP laws are worth less than the toilet paper they use to write that nation's diplomas on. Still, it wouldn't be any real impediment to GW's sales, and there is no company that has legitimately gotten a foot in the door on the model front, so Sathonyx might still be in the running.

Duke Sliscus is just too damn popular.

I seriously think Malys is in trouble. Yeah, she's groovy from a fluff perspective, but she's not a very popular pick. I see her as the second most likely to get the axe, behind Kheradruakh. (Followed by Drazhar, Sathonyx, Sliscus, Rakarth, Lelith, and then Vect himself as the least likely.)

Drazhar is fantastic but as he has to go with Incubi he has limited use.

They need to fix that, he's my favourite dark eldar character by a long way...


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On the other hand in 7th he might get better.

A Eldar / Dark Eldar HQ blob with Drazhar in could be Nasty (he has independent so can be joined by other hq's despite his dumb rule).

Rumors of a Voidraven kit, and a new Incubi kit.

I'm assuming the "new" Incubi kit is just going to be the old one, but in plastic?

The one thing I would not be surprised to see in a new Codex is that the Baron can ONLY join Hellions. This would be a very significant change and lots of folks will be gnashing their teeth.

The link provided showing Baron....wow! That model is beautiful. I also found forward leaning Eldar Jetbikes. Lots of talent on that site.

Right now, I'm not really sure what to change in the DE Codex. Minus a few models in the range, I really like the book and Jes Goodwin's model design for the DE are one of the best, in my opinion.

Definitely looking forward to July to see if we do get the Voidraven.

Puscifer wrote:
I'm really surprised that we are talking DE when BA are after Orks.

Change in release order?

Do DE need it more?

No. The BA was clearly just people trolling. I am surprised that the rumour is so persistent.

- It was disputed by 40K Radio from the start.
- The source was proven wrong when 40K 7th turned out to be more than a "minor update".
- The source was proven wrong again when (as was predicted by 40K radio since... forever...) no Ork vs. BA was forthcoming.

There are no BA. There never were. Eventually, BA will get updated (2015?), but all BA-rumours heard over the past months are bs.

Launch Window - @September
Rules Summary: Updated Mini-rulebook contains FAQs, minor tweaks and clarifications, and much of Stronghold Assault rolled into a new shiny package.
Miniatures included: @70
Armies:
Blood Angels (plastic quick assembly)
- Assault Marine Squad
- Tactical Marine Squad
- Death Company Squad
- Captain (kitted out for assault)
- Chaplain
- Sanguinary Priest (limited edition, similar to the Dark Vengeance mini was)
Orks (plastic quick assembly)
- ‘Ardboys (full mob)
- Nobs (small squad)
- Warboss
- Big Mek
- Ork themed fortification
This was described as simply an updated Warhammer 40,000 Starter Set and specifically “NOT 7th Edition.”

There are three DE Special Characters that have models, one being a hold over from the very start of 3rd Ed.

That leaves:

Vect
Malys
Sliscus
The Decapitator
Sathonyx

Are people really that confident that we'll get even half of those? GW's in a "No mini, no rules" frame of mind now. Look at the Guard and Ork Codices and how their special characters were treated. I don't think many DE characters will survive.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
There are three DE Special Characters that have models, one being a hold over from the very start of 3rd Ed.

That leaves:

Vect
Malys
Sliscus
The Decapitator
Sathonyx

Are people really that confident that we'll get even half of those? GW's in a "No mini, no rules" frame of mind now. Look at the Guard and Ork Codices and how their special characters were treated. I don't think many DE characters will survive.

Seeing the new Ork Codex, where every unit is presented with a huge pic of the miniature, I would say the new 7th Edition "dataslate"-layout/format makes it pretty much impossible for them to include anything without a miniature to grace the page its rules are on.

I don't really want to get into "who needs it more," because I play DE and BA -- but I will say that while the Angels need some of their characters tweaked there are whole swathes of the Dark Eldar dex that are completely defunct and/or lacking any viability right now. It's not just a case of "Death Company are overpriced" but "This makes no sense."

Here's where we hit a "What I hope" vs. "What I expect"

I HOPE:
- The Voidraven becomes a super-heavy flier, which seems possible given its price tag. It seems more suitable than a giant talos MC or an equivalent. Maybe beef up the number of void lances, give it stealth and a hefty point cost.
- I'd like to see GW continue the idea of each army's "big bad" being pushed to the Lord of War category. It would be amazing to see Vect get a model similar to the Tesseract Vault where he can be on the dais or not, depending on player choice.
- Some sort of presence in the psychic phase, please. It would be nice for Haemonculi to get an alchemical power table, or something like that. Not powers from the warp, per se -- but something where they can make the army have a point in a whole phase of the game.
- New Drazhar model please. One where he couldn't look like a giant Praying Mantis with a condom on his head. Unlock incubi as troops, and change up his special rules to make them more viable (looking at you, Darting Strike.)

What I EXPECT:
- Lady Malys goes
- Duke Sliscus goes (and I cry)
- The Decapitator goes, heck Mandrakes might go all together.
- Vect gets a model, Sathonyx gets a model, Drazhar gets a new model.
- Some sort of Incubi HQ option that isn't Drazhar, filling a role similar to an Archon/Succubus
- Scourges get pointed better.
- Trueborn get a kit.
- Haywire cannon option for ravagers
- Grotesques get better options and a new kit to become viable. Perhaps a new HQ option as a grotesque to make a flesh hulk army with talos' (datalate perhaps).

Here are what my "inside sources" are telling me about DE.

Models
-Not every kit or model "needing" an update or new plastic kit will receive one.
-There will be about 4 new plastic kits.
-At least 2 of the new kits will be for brand new units, to appeal to both collectors and gamers.
-Also, at least 1 of the new kits will be a combo kit.
-Expect to see Finecast presence in the range greatly reduced.


Codex
-The codex will be 104 pages, and more of a refinement more than a complete overhaul.
-A few mechanics will get overhauled, but many will stay the same and the rest will only be tweaked to be more in line with 7th edition.
-Anti-psychic abilities and gear will definitely be brought more in line with 7th edition.
-Points changes will figure heavily -- certain heavily-used and popular units will get increases, while less popular units will get cuts.
-Expect to see about two new units.
-Playstyles will change somewhat, and a couple new "star" units will emerge.
-There won't be specific kabal/kult/coven rules in the codex, but they may be included in future dataslates and supplements.

Making your predictions early, eh Gorgon?

 gorgon wrote:
-Points changes will figure heavily -- certain heavily-used and popular units will get increases, while less popular units will get cuts.

I can't see this happening. GW doesn't understand their own game enough to make that sort of across-the-board change.

 gorgon wrote:
-There won't be specific kabal/kult/coven rules in the codex, but they may be included in future dataslates and supplements.

Yeah, because why include variety in the actual Codex when you can just make Day-1 DLC and overpriced supplements.

I just want my archon on a bike back...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
-Points changes will figure heavily -- certain heavily-used and popular units will get increases, while less popular units will get cuts.

I can't see this happening. GW doesn't understand their own game enough to make that sort of across-the-board change.

 gorgon wrote:
-There won't be specific kabal/kult/coven rules in the codex, but they may be included in future dataslates and supplements.

Yeah, because why include variety in the actual Codex when you can just make Day-1 DLC and overpriced supplements.

Dude. gorgon posts this same list every time. It's his jab at people who post vague informed guesses as rumours.

Now all we need is someone to post the greens of those Dark Eldar minis.

 Jimsolo wrote:
Rumors of a Voidraven kit, and a new Incubi kit.

I'm assuming the "new" Incubi kit is just going to be the old one, but in plastic?

Hmm. Father Gabe is one of Natfka's only reliable sources.

Father Gabe - Total rumors: (18 TRUE) / (0 FALSE) / (0 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
-Points changes will figure heavily -- certain heavily-used and popular units will get increases, while less popular units will get cuts.

I can't see this happening. GW doesn't understand their own game enough to make that sort of across-the-board change.

 gorgon wrote:
-There won't be specific kabal/kult/coven rules in the codex, but they may be included in future dataslates and supplements.

Yeah, because why include variety in the actual Codex when you can just make Day-1 DLC and overpriced supplements.

I think that went completely over your head.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
-Points changes will figure heavily -- certain heavily-used and popular units will get increases, while less popular units will get cuts.

I can't see this happening. GW doesn't understand their own game enough to make that sort of across-the-board change.

 gorgon wrote:
-There won't be specific kabal/kult/coven rules in the codex, but they may be included in future dataslates and supplements.

Yeah, because why include variety in the actual Codex when you can just make Day-1 DLC and overpriced supplements.

Dude. gorgon posts this same list every time. It's his jab at people who post vague informed guesses as rumours.

To be fair, I'm poking both the bloggers posting vague stuff and the players readily believing the bloggers posting wild stuff about an army being majorly overhauled with game-changing new rules, 8 new plastic kits, etc.

The blog formula seems to be about finding the balance between vague stuff (to establish "veracity" since folks like pretre are watching) and more specific, wild rumors (to get people excited and spike the page views). I don't think it'd be that hard to start a rumors site to compete with the usual suspects, but I really don't have any interest in deceiving fellow hobbyists.

In this case, Father Gabe is of course a good rumormonger and I have no reason to doubt him. But what almost certainly will come next is a tsunami of questionable rumors hitting our shores that have no basis in reality. Still, I'm all for letting the rumors flow...I just don't take them seriously in most instances.

If the rumor of the Voidraven being the DE's answer to the 'mega' units everyone's getting these days, do you expect it will still be a flier? I personally can't stand the flier rules and choose not to use fliers in my games. Would hope it would be a skimming landraider as opposed to a flyer of questionable value.

Plastic Incubi is also a very awesome addition as the finecast models are beyond awful. They can't be taken off the shelf because the weapons are so fragile. (Un?)fortunately, the rules for them are quite bad so I rarely justify including them.

Honestly, I play DE today just like I did over a decade ago with everything in raiders (and venoms) that they rarely leave and just shoot stuff with cannons for 4 turns. It would be nice for the rules and points to change so something else was viable.

Nvs wrote:


Plastic Incubi is also a very awesome addition as the finecast models are beyond awful. They can't be taken off the shelf because the weapons are so fragile. (Un?)fortunately, the rules for them are quite bad so I rarely justify including them.

Honestly, I play DE today just like I did over a decade ago with everything in raiders (and venoms) that they rarely leave and just shoot stuff with cannons for 4 turns. It would be nice for the rules and points to change so something else was viable.

You are using the FAQ Incubi rules, right? They're friggin' stellar when used properly.

"Oh, 225 pts of terminators. Cool. Oh hey, here's my 100 pts of Incubi that are I6 and AP2. Sorry about that."

Nvs wrote:
If the rumor of the Voidraven being the DE's answer to the 'mega' units everyone's getting these days, do you expect it will still be a flier? I personally can't stand the flier rules and choose not to use fliers in my games. Would hope it would be a skimming landraider as opposed to a flyer of questionable value.

Plastic Incubi is also a very awesome addition as the finecast models are beyond awful. They can't be taken off the shelf because the weapons are so fragile. (Un?)fortunately, the rules for them are quite bad so I rarely justify including them.

Honestly, I play DE today just like I did over a decade ago with everything in raiders (and venoms) that they rarely leave and just shoot stuff with cannons for 4 turns. It would be nice for the rules and points to change so something else was viable.

Scavenge from eBay for metal ones then mate. there's usually a good number of metal Incubi around on there. Though not all of them are asking for sensible money for em.
I concar with Auswin as to the kicking of serious butt from Incubi units. I do enjoy using the Bloodstone too.

 Auswin wrote:

Nvs wrote:


Plastic Incubi is also a very awesome addition as the finecast models are beyond awful. They can't be taken off the shelf because the weapons are so fragile. (Un?)fortunately, the rules for them are quite bad so I rarely justify including them.

Honestly, I play DE today just like I did over a decade ago with everything in raiders (and venoms) that they rarely leave and just shoot stuff with cannons for 4 turns. It would be nice for the rules and points to change so something else was viable.

You are using the FAQ Incubi rules, right? They're friggin' stellar when used properly.

"Oh, 225 pts of terminators. Cool. Oh hey, here's my 100 pts of Incubi that are I6 and AP2. Sorry about that."

I don't recall the last time I saw Space Marine terminators on the board that didn't have a 3++ storm shield save other than the GK Terminators, who also happen to be I6 with their S4 halbards.