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2014/10/01 00:09:21
Subject: Re:Dark Eldar rumors - pics and video page1
When the Eldar codex was at this stage people whined a whole lot too.
Stop assaulting your Reavers into things that can easily slaughter them.
That wasn't even the argument I was making. Reavers were never built for assaulting, they were meant to do bladevane attacks. GW, in their infinite wisdom, got rid of that ability because, I don't know, it's too confusing?
But you don't seem interested in discussing this, you'd just rather dismiss us all as "whining." Got it
Your argument wasnt clear at all, it seem like you just wanted to whine about people whining which makes me think your whining too...
But I think I understand what you was trying to say? let me try.
Cough cough cough..
"Try to use your Reavers in a different manner, a good choice would be to wait for Turn 3 or 4 to do a last minute charge for an objective. Another thing, with the HoW hits and some Rending should make mopping up a unit fail to be killed from your shooting easy. "
Is that what you meant? Using them against things you know they will win against?
Well to be frank, there isnt much out there, tau with amazing Ovewatch, Necrons overwatch so strong too, Flamers auto hits (breaking out armor) and the amount of S6 and S7 on the field only strong units like Riptides and Wrathknights seem to be present out in the open to be charged.. and we know how well reavers are against those.
Thanks for the unnecessary condescending tone. I will say this AGAIN, since I didn't think it require that much elaboration since we are going on what Eldar Jetbikes do.
Ahem, Dark Eldar reavers have never been good at assault for all the reasons T3 space elves just aren't. Part of the reason people took Reavers before was due to the fact that they could do bladevane attacks, which kept them out of close combat (which they suck at) and allowed them to harass people, as well as supply a cover save for moving at high speeds.
The loss of bladevane removes that major purpose. Hammer of Wrath attacks, while able to kill some models, will not do that much and at the worst result in the unit being destroyed by almost any mildly CC-oriented unit. Toss in what you were saying about Overwatch, and a number of those attacks don't even make it.
I didn't bother explaining all of the merits of assaulting with Eldar jetbikes because I figured they're nothing new.
When the Eldar codex was at this stage people whined a whole lot too.
Stop assaulting your Reavers into things that can easily slaughter them.
That wasn't even the argument I was making. Reavers were never built for assaulting, they were meant to do bladevane attacks. GW, in their infinite wisdom, got rid of that ability because, I don't know, it's too confusing?
But you don't seem interested in discussing this, you'd just rather dismiss us all as "whining." Got it
Now they're a 16 point assault unit with utility for only 16 points.
That is an improvement, yes. I just don't think the points drop and new HoW make them an effective unit compared to the bladevane attacks. Now they are largely a single-CC round suicide unit, and I just see that as being worse.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/10/01 00:13:27
They're 28% cheaper (!) and will get T4, S4, WS5, or +1 attack most likely. Rending HoW is decent especially if caltrops give D6 Hammers each. And they get Hit And Run. And FNP even f they don't kill anything.
They're fantastic for a 16 point assault unit. 16 points used to get us a crappy Hellion.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/01 00:19:20
2014/10/01 00:31:59
Subject: Re:Dark Eldar rumors - pics and video page1
mercury14 wrote: They're 28% cheaper (!) and will get T4, S4, WS5, or +1 attack most likely. Rending HoW is decent especially if caltrops give D6 Hammers each. And they get Hit And Run. And FNP even f they don't kill anything.
They're fantastic for a 16 point assault unit. 16 points used to get us a crappy Hellion.
Ugh...hellions
Well we shall see if these benefits make reavers effective. I admit I am still dubious but some of those changes *could* be beneficial (do caltrops really give D6HoW a piece?)
I think I would have just really liked to have seen Archons on bikes, that would have resolved any feelings I had about the loss of bladevanes (especially since the reavers combined would make an interesting assault unit).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/01 00:32:28
2014/10/01 00:33:21
Subject: Re:Dark Eldar rumors - pics and video page1
mercury14 wrote: They're 28% cheaper (!) and will get T4, S4, WS5, or +1 attack most likely. Rending HoW is decent especially if caltrops give D6 Hammers each. And they get Hit And Run. And FNP even f they don't kill anything.
They're fantastic for a 16 point assault unit. 16 points used to get us a crappy Hellion.
Ugh...hellions Well we shall see if these benefits make reavers effective. I admit I am still dubious but some of those changes *could* be beneficial (do caltrops really give D6HoW a piece?)
I think I would have just really liked to have seen Archons on bikes, that would have resolved any feelings I had about the loss of bladevanes (especially since the reavers combined would make an interesting assault unit).
vipoid wrote: Perhaps they saw a lot of Eldar + Dark Eldar lists winning... and assumed that Dark Eldar were the problem.
Its typical GW, they are applying complaints from 5th edition. Look at orks, the things that barely worked were nerfed because they were good in 5th.
if they had been following the complaints from 5th, baron would be gone and venoms would be 100pts. Reavers would have gotten buffed, they werent particularly good in 5th, they got much better in 6th.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/01 00:35:06
Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++
Not trying to be TFG but wouldn't an archon on a bike or board be a little against fluff. I thought they were in the wych cults. Maybe a succubus on a bike?
Not that he couldn't get his hands on a bike. But that would be him hanging out with a bunch of people he thinks are under him.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/01 00:39:08
The guy with the photos of the codex is showing 5 scourges with heat lances for 120 pts. It would be great if they had a no-scatter DS like Swooping Hawks... *fingers crossed*
2014/10/01 00:54:33
Subject: Re:Dark Eldar rumors - pics and video page1
The guy with the photos of the codex is showing 5 scourges with heat lances for 120 pts. It would be great if they had a no-scatter DS like Swooping Hawks... *fingers crossed*
Yeah attach someone with a WWP then move the IC out of the unit next turn.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/01 00:54:58
Nocturnus wrote: From Warseer:
I do have a phographed version of the codex anda i can say following:
- Haywire granades only for characters
- Ravagers more expensive
- 4 weapons for Scourges
- No carabines for trueborns
- Raiders and Ravagers come with dissis. Dark lances + 5 points
- Bomber is 160 points + cost of missiles
No board or bike for Archon
Scourges: 16 points each
Incubi: 20 points, no granades
Reavers: 16 points each, can leave combat
Witches: 10 points
Kabalites: 8 points
Talos: 120, units of 1-3
Cronos: 100 units 1-3
Hemie: 70
Mandrakes: 12
Hellions: 13, no granades
Reading the codex, I have a big feeling of: WTF have you done to my army? Give me my Dark Eldar back!!!!!
No vect or AP2 for Archon (Succubus has option of a ****** AP2 weapn)
Scourges are NOT relentless
weapons for trueborns, min size 5 man squad, no carabines
wracks are elite, no improvement, 1 special weapon for every 5 models
No harlies
Court: Llamean 10, Ur ghul 15, Medusae 25, Sslyth 25
Positive things? I'm really shocked after going through this **** i'm reading now. Assualt army? Really? No granades in the assualt units. I own like 20 trueborns with carabines. ******* U GW. You have ruined my army.
Well, splinter racks work now with every splinter weapon. I can see 5 scourges with Splinter cannos on a Raider with racks, 24 twin linked poisoned shots.
Combat drugs are:
1: +1A
2: +1S
3: +1I
4: +1T
5:+1 WS 6: +1L
Hahahahaha! I'm sorry, this is so sad and pathetic that it's actually funny to me, that or its because I'm sleep depraved.
This is literally the worst gak I've ever seen, it's worse than Tyranids.
This codex truly shows how disconnected they are from the game and player feedback. The only new weapon they added is a 24" dark lance with a blast profile. Like seriously, that's like giving IG a new weapon option that's identical with the auto canon and add a blast to the profile. It's the last thing they need and how the actual feth does GW intend for DE flyers to work with no FF? Jink? They have no TL weaponry (no, that TL splinter rifle doesn't count) and the rest of their weapons are unable to snap shot, they are literally useless as soon as they enter the board because no person would ever dare not to jink with an AV10 flyers. No carbines for borns, are they mad? They nerf the splinter cannon, gives DE an improved splinter rack AND THEN decides that borns shouldn't have carbines? What?
Reavers, no comment. 1 S4 HoW attack does NOT compensate for 1d3 for each bladevane, and why even remove this ability when screamers where allowed to keep it?
And what exactly do DE do with assault units now? Especially since their assault units (no, wyches isn't an assault unit, they tarpit stuff) now lost acces to assault grenades? Raiders must pay for lances now? In an edition where they are in a constant state of jink? Is that a joke?
C'mon, you know why; they're going to make a mini-dex for harlies that are usable by DE and Eldar; they have to milk it for all it's worth.
People weren't buying scourges so they made them better but forgot to give them the one rule that would make them useful....or intentionally did it, I don't know which is worse.
The bomber is way too many points for a 10/10/10 platform; once you buy the missiles, you're looking at stormraven points without the survivability and PoTMS.
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do
agnosto wrote: C'mon, you know why; they're going to make a mini-dex for harlies that are usable by DE and Eldar; they have to milk it for all it's worth.
Of course! How could I be so stupid? You're right. HarliDex with a single unit should be coming our way soon.
mercury14 wrote: When the Eldar codex was at this stage people whined a whole lot too.
Not really.
Absolutely yes. Want me to link you the thread? This board was 60 pages of crying when the Eldar book was in this stage of pre-release. To be fair, not just this board, but the vast majority of the man dollie internetting community. It's kind of what this community does about everything.
The changes to PfP are pretty massive, and the points drops are massive as well. There is quite a bit of good to be found here. The things I see most people bitching about are "nerfs" to units most people didn't even configure anway. Shardcarbine Trueborn? Really? I've never seen that in a competitive list. Not once. Now, if you converted up a unit of them, I feel for you. But most people bitching about that are just the negative inclined people who want to bitch about anything.
I can almost guaruentee there are some other changes in store for Wyches yet that have not come to light. Losing haywire is disappointing, but they will have a redefined role that focuses much more to what they were pre 5th. The changes to PfP is already a massive buff for them. It kind of shocks me that so many people haven't figured that out yet.
My advice to everyone is to take a deep breath and start thinking about how you can maximize on the positive changes. It will make you a better player. Or, you could just keep bitching on the internet. It's whateves.
If 5 scourge with 4 heat lances is only 120 then its safe to assume 4 haywires are not much more, possibly less, which is disgusting.
I literally broke down and lol when I saw wyches stayed at 10 ppm... it mind blowing that anyone in that studio can think they are good.
mandrakes sound real solid now to be honest. 12ppm for infiltrate, stealth and shroud with s4 and a, assault 2 18" ap4 soulblaze weapon... hilarious that contained in the same book are wyches with no where near as many boons for only 2 points less ha ha... Wow!
Hellions are imjpossible to make good in 7th, I mean I guess they could be even cheaper, but compared to wyches they look solid lol, but then again what doesn't?
I mean is a wych really only 1ppm cheaper then a space marine scout? Twice as expensive as a slugga boy? Unreal, I thought for sure they would be down to 8ppm at least AND have better combat perks (enemy can't fire overwatch for example)... such a missed opportunity, I love the models and have spent 50hours painting mine so far, without haywires I honestly have no reason to EVER field them when warriors are 8ppm...
I don't mind the archon nerfs as much as some, probably because I never used a combat characterr with DE. Too many points for too delicate a model, they were never worth the investment IMO, just give him a shadowfield to tank and a blaster and WWP and he's a peach, I am hoping he can still dual wield blast pistols for laughs.
I have no idea why liquifiers are s3 and more expensive but someone did say each grot can have one so there is that I guess.
Really happy I only bought 9 reavers ha ha, probably throw 3 heat lances on them and use them on seek and destroy missions.
I wonder is trueborn are even worth taking anymore? needing 5 minimum and who knows how many special guns they can field now?
People weren't buying scourges so they made them better but forgot to give them the one rule that would make them useful....or intentionally did it, I don't know which is worse.
Huh?
Most of their weapons were Assault already. There is absolutely no reason Scourges needed relentless. The point drop and /upgrade changes is more then enough to make them significantly better.
lol. The traditional whine about whiners ploy, well played sir. We can't have people around annoyed about random nerfs and wtf decisions like scourges without the one ability that would make them useful or a paper bomber that will crash in a stiff breeze but costs $80 and 160pts without a payload.
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do
2014/10/01 03:26:44
Subject: Re:Dark Eldar rumors - pics and video page1
People weren't buying scourges so they made them better but forgot to give them the one rule that would make them useful....or intentionally did it, I don't know which is worse.
Huh?
Most of their weapons were Assault already. There is absolutely no reason Scourges needed relentless. The point drop and /upgrade changes is more then enough to make them significantly better.
I agree, the only weapons they can't take full advantage of are the SC and DL, which IMO are the worst options for them anyway for the points. They each come with a shard carbine, why pay +10 points for even the old profile? Just buy more scourge.
I own 2 units of 5 and they are definitely getting haywire blasters as long as they weren't nerfed. They solve our AT issues. If unit leaders saw a point drop or heaven forbid were free for none vet sergents like marines then I can see haywires in every unit. If, and I know it's a big if, but if it's cost effective for 5 guys with a blaster and haywire grenade, thats more AT. DS your venoms and lob a grenade with your blaster shots.
Really need the whole book to see where we end up guys.
People weren't buying scourges so they made them better but forgot to give them the one rule that would make them useful....or intentionally did it, I don't know which is worse.
Huh?
Most of their weapons were Assault already. There is absolutely no reason Scourges needed relentless. The point drop and /upgrade changes is more then enough to make them significantly better.
So? Literally every Tau battlesuit weapon is assault and yet they inexplicably have relentless. Venom cannons are assault?
Edit. Maybe I'm confused about something. I'll just shut my trap.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/01 03:28:21
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do
agnosto wrote: lol. The traditional whine about whiners ploy, well played sir. We can't have people around annoyed about random nerfs and wtf decisions like scourges without the one ability that would make them useful or a paper bomber that will crash in a stiff breeze but costs $80 and 160pts without a payload.
I'm not whining about anything. I'm offering a level perspective to the angst and histironics prevalent on this thread. You can bitch all you want. It's not going to change anything, it's likely not a realistic perspective of the still not released codex, and it certainly isn't going to make you any better at rolling dice with your man dollies. But I'm sure it's making you feel better about your life, so there's that.
Again, units with access to a wide range of Assault weapons don't need relentless. I'm not sure why you have such a hard time wrapping your head around that, but it is what it is.
Harriticus wrote: Only Blood Angels and Necrons are left until all codex's have been updated within the last 1.5 years or so. GW's codex blitz is running out.
If I played necrons I would be scared right now. that book is going to get horse punched worse then any other xenos to date I bet.... Mark my words.
Do you honestly not understand what the word most means. That's unfortunate, but I'll be happy to assist a fellow 40k enthusiast ::
most
[mohst] Spell Syllables
Synonyms Examples Word Origin
adjective, superl. of much or many with more as compar.
1.
in the greatest quantity, amount, measure, degree, or number:
to win the most votes.
2.
in the majority of instances:
Most operations are successful.
I'm still hoping the bomber has some cool rule that will help it to survive../maybe drop the bomb even while jinking?
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do
No need for the dictionary quotes fellas. It's easy to get emotional when we invest so much time, money and hope into an army. We are all friends here, or I hope we are.
Do you honestly not understand what the word most means. That's unfortunate, but I'll be happy to assist a fellow 40k enthusiast ::
most
[mohst] Spell Syllables
Synonyms Examples Word Origin
adjective, superl. of much or many with more as compar.
1.
in the greatest quantity, amount, measure, degree, or number:
to win the most votes.
2.
in the majority of instances:
Most operations are successful.
Your welcome
Way to be a tool and ignore my friendly edit. Enjoy being the first person on my ignore list.
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do
agnosto wrote: I'm still hoping the bomber has some cool rule that will help it to survive../maybe drop the bomb even while jinking?
I always thought DE units should be able to fire at full BS after jinking. It makes sense and would bring them in line with everyone else while keeping their crafts light and delicate like they should be.
I always saw the bomber as an Alpha Strike vehicle anyway. Now that you can swap out its weapons to make it more Infantry focused or Vehicle focused I think it has been improved in this role.
2014/10/01 03:33:39
Subject: Re:Dark Eldar rumors - pics and video page1
Do you honestly not understand what the word most means. That's unfortunate, but I'll be happy to assist a fellow 40k enthusiast ::
most
[mohst] Spell Syllables
Synonyms Examples Word Origin
adjective, superl. of much or many with more as compar.
1.
in the greatest quantity, amount, measure, degree, or number:
to win the most votes.
2.
in the majority of instances:
Most operations are successful.
Your welcome
You know, if you're going to be snarky you should probably get the right form of "your" in there
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/01 03:34:02
Thanks for the unnecessary condescending tone. I will say this AGAIN, since I didn't think it require that much elaboration since we are going on what Eldar Jetbikes do.
Kuy'arda Cadre- 13741pts 
Of course! How could I be so stupid? You're right. HarliDex with a single unit should be coming our way soon.
