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It's super heavy? Bummer. How many HP do we need to strip? Presumably a shedload of gauss will do the job as well?

MarkCron wrote:
Quick question - what's the most effective way of dealing with a Knight Errant? This thing keeps popping up in the GK 7th thread - I don't have one or the dex so not sure what it can do. Also, is it a Walker or an MC? Is it expensive?

Walker, I'm thinking scarabs to deal with it, MC, sounds like a job for a death and despair squad.

6 x Transdimensional Beamers on a unit of Wraiths. Any 6 result instantly removes it from play since 6 automatically fails. Gives you roughly 66% chance of removal on one round of firing.

So far while on my "business trip", I've already played 3 games with my crons. The 1st 2 were with my Fun-crons, a semi-competitive list with monolith, teleporting immortals, doom scythe and overall very little spam. 1st game was against blob squad AM/Space Marines and then against Mechdar with 4 wave serpents and the Forgeworld Hornets.

3rd game was using my competitive single-CAD neurons against seer council+Baron + 4 wave serpents.

In my 2 games against the death stars, my opponents had awesome powers. Blob squad got Invisibility and Gate of Infinity. Seer council got invisibility and Fortune.

Tomorrow I have 1 more game, this time against GT-winner Mortetvie and his mechdar.

Damn, I played against a lot of Eldar on this trip!

I will be providing reports for all my games in the near future.

col_impact wrote:

MarkCron wrote:
Quick question - what's the most effective way of dealing with a Knight Errant? This thing keeps popping up in the GK 7th thread - I don't have one or the dex so not sure what it can do. Also, is it a Walker or an MC? Is it expensive?

Walker, I'm thinking scarabs to deal with it, MC, sounds like a job for a death and despair squad.

6 x Transdimensional Beamers on a unit of Wraiths. Any 6 result instantly removes it from play since 6 automatically fails. Gives you roughly 66% chance of removal on one round of firing.

Superheavies don't get removed from play like that...

 jy2 wrote:
So far while on my "business trip", I've already played 3 games with my crons. The 1st 2 were with my Fun-crons, a semi-competitive list with monolith, teleporting immortals, doom scythe and overall very little spam. 1st game was against blob squad AM/Space Marines and then against Mechdar with 4 wave serpents and the Forgeworld Hornets.

3rd game was using my competitive single-CAD neurons against seer council+Baron + 4 wave serpents.

In my 2 games against the death stars, my opponents had awesome powers. Blob squad got Invisibility and Gate of Infinity. Seer council got invisibility and Fortune.

Tomorrow I have 1 more game, this time against GT-winner Mortetvie and his mechdar.

Damn, I played against a lot of Eldar on this trip!

I will be providing reports for all my games in the near future.

We're looking forward to your reports. Always an inspiration.

Pff, invisibility, time to throw some beams around

 Sigvatr wrote:
Pff, invisibility, time to throw some beams around

And sweep, and tesla, and whoops looks like my C'tan's apocalyptic barrage accidentally fit 4 out of 5 blast templates on the invisible unit while trying to hit that completely unrelated unit standing next to it, and now it just happens to be standing behind a unit I'm shooting my strength D hellstorm template at- looks like I mistakenly covered that entire invisible unit with its widest part...

Well, I think Necrons are still strong in the new ed, but the lack of psychic defense and (as a consequence) invisibilty can be very annoying.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I think Necrons are still strong in the new ed, but the lack of psychic defense and (as a consequence) invisibilty can be very annoying.

Depends. On the one hand, Necrons lack psychic defense. On the other hand, Psykers received an overall nerf compared to 6th where you could almost risk-free cast any powers you wanted to. Invisibility isn't much of an issue either, as Necrons got quite a few weapons to work against it, mainly (Focused) Death Rays that ignore Invisibility and still hit at full force - and with a Focused Death Ray, this means easily getting rid of entire units unless they also pack an awesome ++.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I think Necrons are still strong in the new ed, but the lack of psychic defense and (as a consequence) invisibilty can be very annoying.

Depends. On the one hand, Necrons lack psychic defense. On the other hand, Psykers received an overall nerf compared to 6th where you could almost risk-free cast any powers you wanted to. Invisibility isn't much of an issue either, as Necrons got quite a few weapons to work against it, mainly (Focused) Death Rays that ignore Invisibility and still hit at full force - and with a Focused Death Ray, this means easily getting rid of entire units unless they also pack an awesome ++.

So death rays ignore invisibilty? Sorry for asking.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I think Necrons are still strong in the new ed, but the lack of psychic defense and (as a consequence) invisibilty can be very annoying.

Depends. On the one hand, Necrons lack psychic defense. On the other hand, Psykers received an overall nerf compared to 6th where you could almost risk-free cast any powers you wanted to. Invisibility isn't much of an issue either, as Necrons got quite a few weapons to work against it, mainly (Focused) Death Rays that ignore Invisibility and still hit at full force - and with a Focused Death Ray, this means easily getting rid of entire units unless they also pack an awesome ++.

So death rays ignore invisibilty? Sorry for asking.

You just have to declare you're shooting at another unit (need to have LoS but doesn't have to be in range) and then ignore it and place the line-o'-death on the Invisible one.

One thing to note is that you'd be unable to fire your Tesla Destructor unless the Death Ray also hits a model from the unit you declared you're firing on.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I think Necrons are still strong in the new ed, but the lack of psychic defense and (as a consequence) invisibilty can be very annoying.

Depends. On the one hand, Necrons lack psychic defense. On the other hand, Psykers received an overall nerf compared to 6th where you could almost risk-free cast any powers you wanted to. Invisibility isn't much of an issue either, as Necrons got quite a few weapons to work against it, mainly (Focused) Death Rays that ignore Invisibility and still hit at full force - and with a Focused Death Ray, this means easily getting rid of entire units unless they also pack an awesome ++.

So death rays ignore invisibilty? Sorry for asking.

There's absolutely no need to apologize for asking a legimitate question

Death Ray weapons (be it Focused or not) do not specifically target a unit and therefore, Invisibility is not applied as it only works against shooting attacks that target the invisible unit. Focused Death Ray is simply more effective because it deals twice the amount of hits the regular Death Ray does and you can take more of them in a regular list.

Guys, thanks for clarifying. This makes sense.

Nevertheless, I'm looking for psychic defense in form of a Sorcerer or GD with some (cheap) troop units.

Same here. I wish we would have some sort of special character that allowed for psychic defense. Allying in isn't worth it, in my opinion, as the ally tax is really high and most of the time, you are better off paying for more Necron units instead.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Same here. I wish we would have some sort of special character that allowed for psychic defense. Allying in isn't worth it, in my opinion, as the ally tax is really high and most of the time, you are better off paying for more Necron units instead.

s
This might be the consequence at the end. But in higher pt games, an ally tax can be useful.

 Galorian wrote:

col_impact wrote:

MarkCron wrote:
Quick question - what's the most effective way of dealing with a Knight Errant? This thing keeps popping up in the GK 7th thread - I don't have one or the dex so not sure what it can do. Also, is it a Walker or an MC? Is it expensive?

Walker, I'm thinking scarabs to deal with it, MC, sounds like a job for a death and despair squad.

6 x Transdimensional Beamers on a unit of Wraiths. Any 6 result instantly removes it from play since 6 automatically fails. Gives you roughly 66% chance of removal on one round of firing.

Superheavies don't get removed from play like that...

Why don't they? Beamers only care if the model has a strength characteristic, and I am not finding anything in the Super Heavy Rules that prevent this. Am I overlooking something?


Edit: Found it. Each hit of the beamer would translate to D3 Hull Points of damage per Invincible Behemoth.

col_impact wrote:

 Galorian wrote:

col_impact wrote:

MarkCron wrote:
Quick question - what's the most effective way of dealing with a Knight Errant? This thing keeps popping up in the GK 7th thread - I don't have one or the dex so not sure what it can do. Also, is it a Walker or an MC? Is it expensive?

Walker, I'm thinking scarabs to deal with it, MC, sounds like a job for a death and despair squad.

6 x Transdimensional Beamers on a unit of Wraiths. Any 6 result instantly removes it from play since 6 automatically fails. Gives you roughly 66% chance of removal on one round of firing.

Superheavies don't get removed from play like that...

Why don't they? Beamers only care if the model has a strength characteristic, and I am not finding anything in the Super Heavy Rules that prevent this. Am I overlooking something?

Superheavies cannot be instantly killed.

If you really want decent psychic defenses you'd best aim for allying psykers that have a good WC/pt ratio and putting some Gloom Prisms in your list - if you manage to spread the prisms around so that anything of importance in your army is covered you'd get +2 to DtW against any malediction or offensive Psyker power and the allies will give you the dice you'll need to make use of that bonus.

Playing against daemons for instance you could make a scarab farm that would be very well protected from witchfire powers.

MarkCron wrote:
Quick question - what's the most effective way of dealing with a Knight Errant? This thing keeps popping up in the GK 7th thread - I don't have one or the dex so not sure what it can do. Also, is it a Walker or an MC? Is it expensive?

Walker, I'm thinking scarabs to deal with it, MC, sounds like a job for a death and despair squad.

 NecronLord3 wrote:
Well it's a Superheavy a Walker and therefore scarabs entropic strike has no effect. Crypteks with haywire are good options, but in general just a Cron-Air list can crush them with S7 tesla destructor and Deathray attacks. A dedicated Cron-Air list is the most optimized counter to Imperial knight primary CADs. Mixed lists with dedicated AA options however, can work well in concert to counter Cron-Air.

Stormteks seem like the best option here, if you want to do it quickly. 175 points of stormteks (7 of them) can put 16 glances on a superheavy in one round of shooting. So 3 Stormteks can handle a small superheavy like a Knight Errant. The only way I see a Doom Scythe Death Ray matching that kind of point per damage output is if you line up some of your own dudes next to the SuperHeavy and sacrifice them in the Death Ray so you ramp up the number of hits. That would be a cool way to do it though.

The only way I see a Doom Scythe Death Ray matching that kind of point per damage output is if you line up some of your own dudes next to the SuperHeavy and sacrifice them in the Death Ray so you ramp up the number of hits. That would be a cool way to do it though.

That's not how the death ray works...

Gloom Prisms don't do much. Offensive psychic powers aren't much of a threat, buffs are where the power's at. And sadly, Gloom Prisms don't do anything against those.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

omerakk wrote:

The only way I see a Doom Scythe Death Ray matching that kind of point per damage output is if you line up some of your own dudes next to the SuperHeavy and sacrifice them in the Death Ray so you ramp up the number of hits. That would be a cool way to do it though.

That's not how the death ray works...

Well, that is indeed how it works. You may hit your own models with it, it is specifically mentioned in the weapon rules for the Focused Death Ray ("friendly or enemy"). Hit 3 of your own models, hit the super heavy and both your unit and the super heavy get 8 S10 AP1 hits. That's bye-bye for the super heavy. And your unit too most likely

Even if you don't hit your own models, just hit a single model other than the super heavy and you are already looking at 4 S10 AP1 hits for the super heavy, giving you a good chance to destroy it as well.

 Sigvatr wrote:


Even if you don't hit your own models, just hit a single model other than the super heavy and you are already looking at 4 S10 AP1 hits for the super heavy, giving you a good chance to destroy it as well.

Maybe you are talking about something else with a Death Ray but a Doom Scythe is only going to get 2 hits in that situation.

col_impact wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:


Even if you don't hit your own models, just hit a single model other than the super heavy and you are already looking at 4 S10 AP1 hits for the super heavy, giving you a good chance to destroy it as well.

Maybe you are talking about something else with a Death Ray but a Doom Scythe is only going to get 2 hits in that situation.

I said Focused Death Ray

 Sigvatr wrote:

col_impact wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:


Even if you don't hit your own models, just hit a single model other than the super heavy and you are already looking at 4 S10 AP1 hits for the super heavy, giving you a good chance to destroy it as well.

Maybe you are talking about something else with a Death Ray but a Doom Scythe is only going to get 2 hits in that situation.

I said Focused Death Ray

Which is fine, but not everyone has/plays with Forgeworld.

I like my Ghost Arks w/warriors and Stormteks. Assuming a side shot with my build, you can get 13 (26 rapidfire) and 8 storm shots. You should average 7.2 hullpoints stripped on the non-shield side (3.6 on the shield side). Dedicate 2 Ghost Arks of shooting and you should be able to take down 1-2 Imperial Knights per turn.

My suggestion of using Doomscythes comes from maximizing the amount of flyers for your army has. The Doomscythe isn't always the most point efficient unit, but being able to counter invisibility makes them a lot better and against a mostly Imperial Knight army you may get luck and be able to position the doom scythe to get a shot around the inv. shield or keep you opponent turning the shield toward the Doomscythes so that everything else can take shots on the exposed sides.

 NecronLord3 wrote:
My suggestion of using Doomscythes comes from maximizing the amount of flyers for your army has. The Doomscythe isn't always the most point efficient unit, but being able to counter invisibility makes them a lot better and against a mostly Imperial Knight army you may get luck and be able to position the doom scythe to get a shot around the inv. shield or keep you opponent turning the shield toward the Doomscythes so that everything else can take shots on the exposed sides.

For determining invul save coming from the knights shield, if a doom scythe hits a knight with its death ray, is the point of origin determined from the doom scythe or the direction from which the ray hit the knight? If i remember right, it is from the doom scythe but Im not sure.

That is correct unless something has changed. Regardless the knight player determines facing during the opposing shooting phase so optimally they can always move it to face the Doomscythes Deathray attack, but like I said tatctially you can bait your opponent to either leave a side exposed for the Deathray attack, or open up another side for mass tesla attack from night scythes and other units.

 NecronLord3 wrote:
That is correct unless something has changed. Regardless the knight player determines facing during the opposing shooting phase so optimally they can always move it to face the Doomscythes Deathray attack, but like I said tatctially you can bait your opponent to either leave a side exposed for the Deathray attack, or open up another side for mass tesla attack from night scythes and other units.

Keep in mind that the line doesn' have to be drawn going away from the Scythe. If you can put the first point at the flank of the Knight you can put the second point anywhere 3d6" from there.

col_impact wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:
That is correct unless something has changed. Regardless the knight player determines facing during the opposing shooting phase so optimally they can always move it to face the Doomscythes Deathray attack, but like I said tatctially you can bait your opponent to either leave a side exposed for the Deathray attack, or open up another side for mass tesla attack from night scythes and other units.

Keep in mind that the line doesn' have to be drawn going away from the Scythe. If you can put the first point at the flank of the Knight you can put the second point anywhere 3d6" from there.

right, but as long as the knight puts the shield up facing the doom scythe, it'll get the save since point of origin is determined from the weapon, not the proverbial bullet (which is wierd).

 Sigvatr wrote:

omerakk wrote:

The only way I see a Doom Scythe Death Ray matching that kind of point per damage output is if you line up some of your own dudes next to the SuperHeavy and sacrifice them in the Death Ray so you ramp up the number of hits. That would be a cool way to do it though.

That's not how the death ray works...

Well, that is indeed how it works. You may hit your own models with it, it is specifically mentioned in the weapon rules for the Focused Death Ray ("friendly or enemy"). Hit 3 of your own models, hit the super heavy and both your unit and the super heavy get 8 S10 AP1 hits. That's bye-bye for the super heavy. And your unit too most likely

Even if you don't hit your own models, just hit a single model other than the super heavy and you are already looking at 4 S10 AP1 hits for the super heavy, giving you a good chance to destroy it as well.

... as this is a case of exploiting a RAW loophole of a poorly written rule, this would be something you wouldn't normally do in friendly games.