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I would probably leave a highly competitive meta.. You shouldn't have to be sober to play :(
We do have a very big meta just over the border, but my German sucks.
Don't get me wrong: most people aren't fielding min/max lists all the time and are far from TFG. Most will always be willing to play a "fun" game with unoriginal lists; it's just that normally, you will face competitive lists. The competitive part is reinforced by us, as well ;D
I organize 1 tournament per month with cash prizes (1st: 50€, 2nd: 30€, 3rd: 20€) and one big tournament every 6 months-ish (1st: 150€, 2nd: 100€, 3rd: 50€). Some special tournaments in between, like anniversaries, holidays etc. So yeah, people tend to stay competitive The atmosphere is very friendly, though, and we rarely have rules issues.
Hmm, you wouldn't happen to host those tournaments around Aachen? Since I live near Herzogenrath
I am actually quite interested to know what most people actually play against.
Talking about personal experiences with units is far more interesting than discussing the most competitive list, which can be easily be decided upon within one page of discussing it.
Example: I once had a gigantic success with Lychguard against Ork-Boyz.
It's one of those things people tend to overlook: S3 Boyz against T5 Lychguard are going to have a bad time.
Hmm, now that I think of it.
Didn't Defensive Grenades used to block Furious Charge in 6th?
monti14 wrote: Not tournaments but don't wanna get my teeth punched in either. Not gonna rock tournaments because I need a decent amount of practice in 7th to catch up. So some regular warriors and give or say 6-8 wraiths? Maybe a destroyer lord?
You could add a Destroyer Lord, but with two Command Barges, would you really want to?
Hold off for a bit.
Do get a unit of Wraiths for the time being, though. 6 should be good. If you like the way they play, THEN get a Destroyer Lord.
Also worth considering would be Scarabs. A good sized swarm or two (5 to 10 each) will work excellently at tying up units until your Barge Lords or Wraiths can get to them.
And you've already got a bunch of Immortals, with a few Nightscythes, so maybe you might be okay for troops? Perhaps a Ghost Ark + 5 or so Warriors might be good.
*insert obligatory pimp for Death & Despair Squad™*
I´m going to a tourney in a month or so and wondering about my Crones.
Have played mor or less a wraith wing but now I would like to try a AV 13 wall, but dont know how to form the list.
Can you help me form a 2K tourney list and a AV13 wall?
Belsibub wrote: I´m going to a tourney in a month or so and wondering about my Crones.
Have played mor or less a wraith wing but now I would like to try a AV 13 wall, but dont know how to form the list.
Can you help me form a 2K tourney list and a AV13 wall?
Do you know if it is single-CAD or dual-CAD?
Also, how competitive do you want to make your list? Mild, Competitive, Hardcore or Super-cheesy?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/12 16:10:52
skoffs wrote: Congrats, jy2, nail biting game, that was a well earned shirt.
Too bad the Tomb Blade didn't last very long, I was hoping to see how handy it might have been. Do you think you'd change/fine tune that list any?
No, I like it the way it is. I don't really want to go 2x ghost arks because of all the fast deathstars in my meta - seer council, beaststar, teleporting centurionstars, Imperial Knights, Farsight-bomb and now hero-hammer wolfstars. Any more ghost arks may actually be a liability in my meta. Just 1 with troops inside and the tomb blade should be enough for Maelstrom objectives along with my bargelords and AB's.
If anything, I might downgrade my immortals to warriors in order to add in some crypteks (perhaps 1 lance-tek and 1 storm-tek).
Right guys I need some help refining and finishing off this list for a Tournament coming up in November, I'm new to Crons, and have only played a few small games with them. MarkCron has given me some solid advice to start off the army.
The tournament is 1650 points with the following basic comp..
The basic Force Organisation Chart remains the same but the options from there will be restricted. Please
choose 2 from the following. Alternative options such as that printed in Codex Orks may be used as a
replacement.
Additional FoC (counts as both choices)
A Lord of War (counts as both choices)
A Single Formation (may take a 2nd but would, count as both your choices, this must be a different formation)
Allies
Remove restriction on the number of units that can be taken (counts as both choices, see below)
Additional Detachment eg Codex Knights or Codex Inquisition
Fortification (If taking a network then it counts as both choices)
Compulsory Troops selections must be at least 75 points, this includes for any allies taken.
Forgeworld Experimental Rules are legal
HQ, Elite, Fast Attack and Heavy Support units are all considered 0-2 and Troop choices 0-4. This is taken
across the entire army on a. E.g a Space Marine player takes 2 Whirlwinds in one of his Detachments he may
no longer use purchase any more Whirlwinds for his army regardless of where they come from or how many
other detachments he has. (This restriction maybe removed see above)
Lords of War are points capped to 799 points
My Necron will also contain no Warriors, because of personal preference, so only Immortal troops.
Troops-
5 x Gauss Immortals, Night Scythe (Stormtek here)
5 x Gauss Immortals, Night Scythe
10 x Tesla Immortals, (VeilTek here)
10 x Tesla Immortals, (VeilTek here)
Fast Attack- Tomb Blade
Heavy Support -
Annihilation Barge, Tesla Cannon, Tesla Destructor
Annihilation Barge, Tesla Cannon, Tesla Destructor
At the moment this puts me at 1595 points, so I still have a little to spend. I'm thinking of using my two comp points to get rid of the restrictions on units and squeezing a third AnniBarge in, but I'll have to find 35points to do that.
My only concern is heavy armour, I have a lot of Knights in my meta,so will this be a problem for me?
monti14 wrote: Not tournaments but don't wanna get my teeth punched in either. Not gonna rock tournaments because I need a decent amount of practice in 7th to catch up. So some regular warriors and give or say 6-8 wraiths? Maybe a destroyer lord?
For a decent bundle of models to give you some fun:
2 ghost arks
2-3 annihilation barges (they come with necron lords and can be CCB if you want, really easy swap)
2 night scythes (magnets so it can be a doomscythe too, really easy to do)
6-8 wriaths sounds good
destroyer lord
Warriors to be inside the arks/scythes.
Add immortals/deathmarks if you prefer.
Spice with crypteks (you can make fun little units, like a cryptek of despair with deathmakrs in a nighscythe)
As for the AV13 wall.
I generally run something similar to this.
Lord
3 ghost arks with 5-10 inside
3 annihilation barges
death and despair scythe
haywire scythe (cryptek with the haywire gun and 5 or so warriors)
If you have leftover points, you could bring a CCB lord to try to take out wraithknights and whatnot. Or you could bring wraiths, but every gun that can't scratch AV13 will hit the wraiths. Riptides, wraithknights and dreadknights are a bit of a pain to take down thanks to lack of low AP.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/12 19:10:50
CCB Lord w/scythe, armor, invul save, mindshackles
CCB Lord w/scythe, armor, invul save, mindshackles
Lots of units of 3 Scarabs
Lots of units of 1 Tomb Spyder
Destroyer Lord w/Mindshackles (Warlord)
C'tan shard w/Lord of Fire, Pyreshards
C'tan shard w/Spirit Shards, Writhing Worldscape
3 Annihilation Barges
The exact amount of scarabs/spyders and C'tan shards varies depending on the exact points of the games.
All in all, fact is that Warhammer 40K has never been as balanced as it is now, and codex releases have never been as interesting as they are now (new units and vehicles and tons of new special rules/strategies each release -- not just the same old crap with a few changes in statlines and points costs).
Talking about tactics:
I have an Apocalypse upcoming and my opponent is fielding at least three Baneblade-variants, demanding that we play with the old Destroyer-rules.
I am thinking of including a Red Harvest of Heavy Destroyers, do you think that would work?
And how good would it be to field three T-C'tans in my list?
I seriously have no idea how to fight against that, while at the same time having enough stuff to deal with his gigantic blob of Mortars and GK-Termies.
Right guys I need some help refining and finishing off this list for a Tournament coming up in November, I'm new to Crons, and have only played a few small games with them. MarkCron has given me some solid advice to start off the army.
The tournament is 1650 points with the following basic comp..
The basic Force Organisation Chart remains the same but the options from there will be restricted. Please
choose 2 from the following. Alternative options such as that printed in Codex Orks may be used as a
replacement.
Additional FoC (counts as both choices)
A Lord of War (counts as both choices)
A Single Formation (may take a 2nd but would, count as both your choices, this must be a different formation)
Allies
Remove restriction on the number of units that can be taken (counts as both choices, see below)
Additional Detachment eg Codex Knights or Codex Inquisition
Fortification (If taking a network then it counts as both choices)
Compulsory Troops selections must be at least 75 points, this includes for any allies taken.
Forgeworld Experimental Rules are legal
HQ, Elite, Fast Attack and Heavy Support units are all considered 0-2 and Troop choices 0-4. This is taken
across the entire army on a. E.g a Space Marine player takes 2 Whirlwinds in one of his Detachments he may
no longer use purchase any more Whirlwinds for his army regardless of where they come from or how many
other detachments he has. (This restriction maybe removed see above)
Lords of War are points capped to 799 points
My Necron will also contain no Warriors, because of personal preference, so only Immortal troops.
Troops-
5 x Gauss Immortals, Night Scythe (Stormtek here)
5 x Gauss Immortals, Night Scythe
10 x Tesla Immortals, (VeilTek here)
10 x Tesla Immortals, (VeilTek here)
Fast Attack- Tomb Blade
Heavy Support -
Annihilation Barge, Tesla Cannon, Tesla Destructor
Annihilation Barge, Tesla Cannon, Tesla Destructor
At the moment this puts me at 1595 points, so I still have a little to spend. I'm thinking of using my two comp points to get rid of the restrictions on units and squeezing a third AnniBarge in, but I'll have to find 35points to do that.
My only concern is heavy armour, I have a lot of Knights in my meta,so will this be a problem for me?
1. For your army, I'd give each Overlord sempitenal weave and then add another storm-tek and you should be good-to-go.
2. Either that or drop the storm-tek and the tomb blade and get the 3rd Annibarge.
Personally, I'd prefer Option #1. If you're going to run bargelords, you need to deck them out. The 2+ will help in close combat.
Belsibub wrote: Ohh the tourney limits is; 2K and dual-CAD.
I would like to run a competative AV 13 wall, so any help forming such list would be very helpfull.
Run the following units:
2 Bargelords (Overlord with 2+/3++, MSS, Warscythe, Command Barge with optional ResOrb)
Some crypteks, either with voltaic staff to join the troops in the flyers or eldritch lance to join the troops in ghost arks
1-2 troops in flyers (I recommend 2)
1-2 troops in ghost arks (I recommend 2)
As many annihilation barges as you can.
That is a template for an AV13-necron army.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kangodo wrote: Talking about tactics:
I have an Apocalypse upcoming and my opponent is fielding at least three Baneblade-variants, demanding that we play with the old Destroyer-rules.
I am thinking of including a Red Harvest of Heavy Destroyers, do you think that would work?
And how good would it be to field three T-C'tans in my list?
I seriously have no idea how to fight against that, while at the same time having enough stuff to deal with his gigantic blob of Mortars and GK-Termies.
And why should you give in to his demand, unless you are constantly pulverizing him and he needs the handicap? My suggestion is this. Don't give him the advantage unless he gives you something back in return. Either that or increase the points cost for his super-heavies that are using the old rules to help balance the game.
Apocalypse is all about fun. Field whatever you want and don't play it too competitively. Sometimes if you get too competitive, it kinda sucks the fun out for the other person if his army is getting manhandled. However, do add some void shield generators in your army if he is running the old Destroyer guns.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/13 00:11:55
Because the two people that "organised" it decided so, the rest doesn't care because they probably didn't even know it changed and then there's me.
Aah, that's a good advice! I will definitely kitbash one of those.
Was actually hoping to stay within Necrons, killing those things ASAP and than have a leveled playing field.
It's not about being competitive.
Their argument was that it's more suitable for Apocalypse-sized games.
I really dislike the Apoc-part where the team that goes first annihilates the opponent on turn one with D-Blasts
take many royal courts, all with 4x Stormtek & 1x Veiltek.
Land next to the Superheavies.
Laugh.
Unless im missing some Haywire-immunity on SHTs
Experience is something you get just after you need it The Narkos Dynasty - 15k Iron Hands - 12k The Shadewatch - 3k Cadmus Outriders - 4k Alpha Legion Raiders - 3k
This seems to be the starting optimal minimum for 7th edition Necrons.
2 GA with 5 warriors. 2 NS with 5 warriors. 1 Bargelord with MS, PS, SW, and WS. 2 Stormteks in the NS. 2 Annihilation Barges. That's 1175 points and a good chunk of a 1850 or 2000 point list.
One bargelord is always golden. Ghost arks are simply strong in 7th so 2 seems like a solid default. Also, 2 Night Scythes and 2 Annihilation Barges seem similarly always golden. 2 NS provides minimal AA and is almost an AA tax.
From there you can obviously go a 2nd Bargelord, a 3rd Annihilation Barge, and a 3rd Night Scythe for Spammy Crons.
Or you can diversify and play with scytheMarks, a mini-Scarab farm, or a Wraith/Arcanthrite Destroyer Lord Wraithwing.
Also you can play with Zandrekh and/or Obyron and/or VeilTeks for Tactic Crons.
You could also drop the BargeLord and fit a Sentry Pylon-star in there and make lots of friends.
Each of these variants has their pros and cons and applications. For maelstrom missions/metas for example, I like fitting Night Scythes and Obyron + VeilTeks + Tomb Blades in there. For Deathstar heavy missions/metas, I like fitting Zandrekh in there along with some tarpits (ie scarabs) because hit and run is crazy good ability for the opponent Deathstar to have and Zandrekh shuts it down and enables your tarpits to do their stuff.
Stormteks are really the stand-out cryptek. I think the bare minimum for any list is 2 while 4 is likely the optimal number. With drop pods, dedicated transports, and imperial knights on the rise, stormteks are silly good. Even against the occasional army with no vehicles the Stormtek still provides solid anti-infantry fire and is never dead points.
tldr; Stormteks are silly good, play 2 minimum and 4 optimally.
############
So what do you think? Is my minimum Necron list a good one? Am I forgetting something? Alternate opinions?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/15 05:06:22
And how good would it be to field three T-C'tans in my list?
I seriously have no idea how to fight against that, while at the same time having enough stuff to deal with his gigantic blob of Mortars and GK-Termies.
I imagine 6 str d hellstorm templates per turn would convince them to never use the old rules for destroyer weapons again. Especially in Apoc where you can bring back dead ones.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/15 07:05:13
GA have been buffed so much in 7th that you should feel compelled to take them. Permanent 4+ jink with no disadvantage and the effective -1 to the damage table.
Tekron wrote: You may be forgetting the completely legal in 7th LoW slot. Or more likely omitting it out of a sense of fair play.
True. Often LOW are not allowed in 7th edition tourneys and even when they are Transcendent C'tan are often put on the LOW ban list, so it fell off my personal radar, but I should mention it. Occasionally you will get a chance to throw one of those in and if you can throw one of those in you definitely should, so you can at least teach them a lesson the next time around to not allow the Transcendent C'tan.
At what point level do you think a Transcendant C'tan becomes a viable inclusion? Surely at 1850 or 2000 it's a solid inclusion. Do they also work for 1500? What's the lower limit?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sigvatr wrote: GA have been buffed so much in 7th that you should feel compelled to take them. Permanent 4+ jink with no disadvantage and the effective -1 to the damage table.
I think 2 GA is the standard default number for a 7th edition list. Do you agree with that number or do you think GA merit more or less inclusion for the typical 7th edition list?
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/08/15 13:43:58
Sigvatr wrote: GA have been buffed so much in 7th that you should feel compelled to take them. Permanent 4+ jink with no disadvantage and the effective -1 to the damage table.
The downside is your flayer arrays snap shot, but dudes inside don't, so full ghost arks are my preference. what is the -1 damage table on ghost arks? Its +1 for open topped.
I almost always end up with 2 arks in my lists. 3 at +1500pt games.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/15 14:36:21
Snapfiring flayers arrays is a non-factor as they are terrible weapons to begin with. A 4++ is always superior imo.
Destrocourt in GA is quite a good means of protection.
The "effective -1" referred to the new vehicle damage chart that made vehicles more resilient by effectively increasing the necessary roll to destroy it by 1.
True. Often LOW are not allowed in 7th edition tourneys and even when they are Transcendent C'tan are often put on the LOW ban list, so it fell off my personal radar, but I should mention it. Occasionally you will get a chance to throw one of those in and if you can throw one of those in you definitely should, so you can at least teach them a lesson the next time around to not allow the Transcendent C'tan.
At what point level do you think a Transcendant C'tan becomes a viable inclusion? Surely at 1850 or 2000 it's a solid inclusion. Do they also work for 1500? What's the lower limit?
Unless playing unbound i would say the lower limit is a minimum CAD + the cost of the C'Tan. About 1000 points. At lower point levels you would likely be able to table your opponent with it by the end of the game, regardless of objectives.
The Tran C'Tan really not even worth mentioning. If he's legal, throw him in. Maybe even 2 if you're playing 2000 point double CAD. He's that much of an autotake.
Zandrehk can give powers to the Tran. C'tan . Tank hunters, and Hit and run being the most useful. Also counter attack and Stealth(rarely useful). Also Zandrehk can take a similar list of powers away from an opposing unit. It's the only buff a C'tan is capable of getting.
The atmosphere is very friendly, though, and we rarely have rules issues.
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
Iron Hands - 12k 
The Shadewatch - 3k 
Cadmus Outriders - 4k 
Alpha Legion Raiders - 3k 
