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In a non-trolly way, I like counting Kabalite Dark Lance guys as Eldar Rangers; if you model them right they look way more "sniperish".
Ok, so what's definitely tactically viable?
Venoms are still awesome, 65pts for 12 poison and a 5++.
Definitely FlickerFields on Raiders and Ravagers is pretty much a requirement since Jink is trash now (F you snap shots).
...and of course, something something BeastPack!
...but, I wanna come up with new wacky ideas...
Eldar (Craftworld Sahal-Deran) 2500pts. 2000pts Fully Painted.
Dark Eldar (Kabal of the Slashed Eye) 2000pts. 1250pts Fully Painted.
RancidHate wrote: In a non-trolly way, I like counting Kabalite Dark Lance guys as Eldar Rangers; if you model them right they look way more "sniperish".
Ok, so what's definitely tactically viable?
Venoms are still awesome, 65pts for 12 poison and a 5++.
Definitely FlickerFields on Raiders and Ravagers is pretty much a requirement since Jink is trash now (F you snap shots).
...and of course, something something BeastPack!
...but, I wanna come up with new wacky ideas...
I am with you on the new ideas as I am also in agreement on whats listed there as viable. I just find whats viable boring top play with in a 3 game RTT, by the end of game two all I feel I'm doing is rolling for two weapon profiles.
I am not so sold on deepstriking as others are though I am thinking we need an anchor on field to keep us from auto losing, while we reserve as much glass hammer as we can.
So lets start with the durable, what can be plunk down and have good to preferably great odds of survival until our reserves arrive? Lets keep it to DE only to start.
What do people think of using the dual FOC at low points to take a deathstar of triple Huskblade Archon+Vect in a Dais with 5 or 6 wracks to bump them up to give them FnP and majority toughness 4 for cheap. Something like this
I'm not silly enough to think its competitive, but it could be fun to just have a close combat Deathstar capable of tearing Abaddon a new one 3 times over in a 1500 point game. Mobility is obviously an issue once they dismount, but Dias is the best assault vehicle in the game.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Drk_Oblitr8r wrote: A Talos or Chronos, or even 3 Mandrakes if you can hide them properly.
Harlequin with Shadowseer on the back of the board is probably the best, although the isssue with any of these options is if you go second and your opponent reserves a deepstriker of his own, this tactic is screwed so you would have to not reserve a bunch of your deepstriking units, which is a waste of points on Retrofire jets and whatever else
Unless you take the Duke who has a bunch of other useful abilities I guess and lets you be flexible
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2014/06/07 02:58:34
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
Red Corsair wrote: I am with you on the new ideas as I am also in agreement on whats listed there as viable. I just find whats viable boring top play with in a 3 game RTT, by the end of game two all I feel I'm doing is rolling for two weapon profiles.
I am not so sold on deepstriking as others are though I am thinking we need an anchor on field to keep us from auto losing, while we reserve as much glass hammer as we can.
So lets start with the durable, what can be plunk down and have good to preferably great odds of survival until our reserves arrive? Lets keep it to DE only to start.
I prefer the Talos, a Reaver or two (especially if they are concealed behind terrain) or a Ravager or two with Night Shields. Not necessarily all at once, but all those are picks I've found to have a good chance of surviving turn 1.
On another note, if I was building competitively it would likely still involve dual FoC detachments. Its so easy for us, our troops are ace and Haemonculi cost 50 points.
Yeah its cheesy old flyer spam, but still - 4 super scoring T4 FnP troops, 4 super scoring Venoms, and up to 24x S7, re-rollable to wound, LARGE BLASTS at BS4 on turn two. This is melting a board. Mop up with the Venoms and Void Lances. Swap in implosion missiles, Razorwings, flickerfields, whatever to taste and meta. Seems like a solid building block for 1650 and higher.
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't flyers only measure to objectives from their hull, not their base?
It also seems like a pretty heavy "Moneyshot" list. I mean, if your scatters roll well and you can rack up pearl necklaces every time, more power to you. But enough of them go wide to end up on the sheets or the headboard, and you're looking at a list that'd be long on promise and short on delivery.
Still, if you've got the dough for six Voidravens, it'd be a great sucker-punch list.
SHUPPET wrote: What do people think of using the dual FOC at low points to take a deathstar of triple Huskblade Archon+Vect in a Dais with 5 or 6 wracks to bump them up to give them FnP and majority toughness 4 for cheap. Something like this
I'm not silly enough to think its competitive, but it could be fun to just have a close combat Deathstar capable of tearing Abaddon a new one 3 times over in a 1500 point game. Mobility is obviously an issue once they dismount, but Dias is the best assault vehicle in the game.
LOL... if Battle Forged with unlimited detachment is allowed... this can get all sorts of interesting.
2000 Pts - Dark Eldar Roster
Detachment #1
HQ: Asdrubael Vect
1 Dais of Destruction (Raider) (Vehicle (Fast, Open-topped, Skimmer); 10 model capacity; Dark Lance x3; Jink)
HQ: Baron Sathonyx
Troops: Hellion
5 Hellion
Troops: Hellion
5 Hellion
Detachment #2
HQ: Archon
Huskblade; Phantasm Grenade Launcher; Shadow Field
Jimsolo wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't flyers only measure to objectives from their hull, not their base?
It also seems like a pretty heavy "Moneyshot" list. I mean, if your scatters roll well and you can rack up pearl necklaces every time, more power to you. But enough of them go wide to end up on the sheets or the headboard, and you're looking at a list that'd be long on promise and short on delivery.
Still, if you've got the dough for six Voidravens, it'd be a great sucker-punch list.
To some extent. But I think accounting that average 12 of them will roll a hit and 24 will scatter, then you can safely assume that 12 of these the scatter distance will be 6" which is only a scatter of 2" when you factor in BS4 which will likely do the job you are looking, and that anything on an even higher scale of scatter (up to 8") still has a possibility of landing on a different unit (although unlikely) then I think that it's not as "moneyshot" as you think. Of course, the luck of the dice can go either way from there, but that can happen no matter what you take. Large blasts are a lot more reliable than you might think. Even landing on 1 model is the equivalent of landing S7 re-rollable shot, which is good news.
You will also absolutely dominate the skies with all that S9 AP2 fire coming from the skies, and yourself only being hit on snapshots, you should be able to break down any Skyfire units the turn you land no problem.
Razorwings can shoot the same amount of Shatterfields for slightly cheaper. They might be a better option, taking a Voidraven only for an Implosion payload. Or just sticking with nothing but Shatterfields and taking 4 Voidravens + 2 Razorwings with Dissies. I'm not 100% sure the best way to do it. I do like S9 lances though.
I think its a pretty insane amount of shooting, however, especially for a single, early game turn. Just by weight of alpha I think you will likely wipe enough off the board to mop up half an army or less in the following turns with speedy glass cannons like Venoms.
I think it's the most competitive DE can get at the moment (but thats just my opinion).
SHUPPET wrote: What do people think of using the dual FOC at low points to take a deathstar of triple Huskblade Archon+Vect in a Dais with 5 or 6 wracks to bump them up to give them FnP and majority toughness 4 for cheap. Something like this
I'm not silly enough to think its competitive, but it could be fun to just have a close combat Deathstar capable of tearing Abaddon a new one 3 times over in a 1500 point game. Mobility is obviously an issue once they dismount, but Dias is the best assault vehicle in the game.
LOL... if Battle Forged with unlimited detachment is allowed... this can get all sorts of interesting.
2000 Pts - Dark Eldar Roster
Detachment #1
HQ: Asdrubael Vect
1 Dais of Destruction (Raider) (Vehicle (Fast, Open-topped, Skimmer); 10 model capacity; Dark Lance x3; Jink)
HQ: Baron Sathonyx
Troops: Hellion
5 Hellion
Troops: Hellion
5 Hellion
Detachment #2
HQ: Archon
Huskblade; Phantasm Grenade Launcher; Shadow Field
A beastpack with attached Autarch with shard is plenty enough to survive turn 1.
Sure its 400 pts but it will still make a mess when it moves up. Your opponent has the option turn 2 of shooting the beastpack or the 10 vehicles that just dropped in their faces.
Ill stick my DS list up on the first page in a bit.
Jimsolo wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't flyers only measure to objectives from their hull, not their base?
It also seems like a pretty heavy "Moneyshot" list. I mean, if your scatters roll well and you can rack up pearl necklaces every time, more power to you. But enough of them go wide to end up on the sheets or the headboard, and you're looking at a list that'd be long on promise and short on delivery.
Still, if you've got the dough for six Voidravens, it'd be a great sucker-punch list.
To some extent. But I think accounting that average 12 of them will roll a hit and 24 will scatter, then you can safely assume that 12 of these the scatter distance will be 6" which is only a scatter of 2" when you factor in BS4 which will likely do the job you are looking, and that anything on an even higher scale of scatter (up to 8") still has a possibility of landing on a different unit (although unlikely) then I think that it's not as "moneyshot" as you think. Of course, the luck of the dice can go either way from there, but that can happen no matter what you take. Large blasts are a lot more reliable than you might think. Even landing on 1 model is the equivalent of landing S7 re-rollable shot, which is good news.
You will also absolutely dominate the skies with all that S9 AP2 fire coming from the skies, and yourself only being hit on snapshots, you should be able to break down any Skyfire units the turn you land no problem.
Razorwings can shoot the same amount of Shatterfields for slightly cheaper. They might be a better option, taking a Voidraven only for an Implosion payload. Or just sticking with nothing but Shatterfields and taking 4 Voidravens + 2 Razorwings with Dissies. I'm not 100% sure the best way to do it. I do like S9 lances though.
I think its a pretty insane amount of shooting, however, especially for a single, early game turn. Just by weight of alpha I think you will likely wipe enough off the board to mop up half an army or less in the following turns with speedy glass cannons like Venoms.
I think it's the most competitive DE can get at the moment (but thats just my opinion).
SHUPPET wrote: What do people think of using the dual FOC at low points to take a deathstar of triple Huskblade Archon+Vect in a Dais with 5 or 6 wracks to bump them up to give them FnP and majority toughness 4 for cheap. Something like this
I'm not silly enough to think its competitive, but it could be fun to just have a close combat Deathstar capable of tearing Abaddon a new one 3 times over in a 1500 point game. Mobility is obviously an issue once they dismount, but Dias is the best assault vehicle in the game.
LOL... if Battle Forged with unlimited detachment is allowed... this can get all sorts of interesting.
2000 Pts - Dark Eldar Roster
Detachment #1
HQ: Asdrubael Vect
1 Dais of Destruction (Raider) (Vehicle (Fast, Open-topped, Skimmer); 10 model capacity; Dark Lance x3; Jink)
HQ: Baron Sathonyx
Troops: Hellion
5 Hellion
Troops: Hellion
5 Hellion
Detachment #2
HQ: Archon
Huskblade; Phantasm Grenade Launcher; Shadow Field
Automatically Appended Next Post: The only issue I see is that you need to be out the vehicle to cast Fortune etc. If the Dais dies turn 1 the expensive unit is probably going to die...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/07 19:21:34
The multiple detachments are a great way to add strength to our armies. Too bad that most "events" want to limit them. Most tournaments would allow 2 "sources" so if we can develop something that is a dual Combined armes. TBH I would love to run something like this:
Got an interesting idea that may or may not be workable (or totally not within the rules).
BA players have been thinking about attaching a bunch of ICs to Mephiston now that the BRB doesn't forbid you from joining ICs to units of a single model. They're doing this mainly with Corbulo to get some nasty benefits in toughness from his FnP etc.
What if we tried to do something with that forever-alone character that no one ever uses: Kheradruakh the Decapitator?
The Decapitator's main schtick is that when you bring him in from reserves, you get to place him basically anywhere, like a super Infiltrate. However, it's not under the infiltrate rules or anything that I can tell, and you can certainly join ICs to units in reserves before the battle starts, so it should be possible to have Mr. Unused come in accompanied by a load of ICs. I'm not sure what the greatest use of this will be (certainly janky to the max), but there could be some fun combos there. I'm thinking Phoenix Lords.
Fuegan gives you two BS7 melta shots guaranteed in melta range on the rear armor of whatever you want. Karandras gives you some actual melee capabilities. All of the Phoenix Lords give you T4 W4 with 2+ armor. Are there any other DE or Eldar ICs that could use 100% accurate Deep Striking?
This is probably too expensive a tactic to be really worthwhile, and you're almost certainly throwing away your warlord, but it'll be funny.
Thariinye wrote: Got an interesting idea that may or may not be workable.
What if we tried to do something with that forever-alone character that no one ever uses: Kheradruakh the Decapitator?
The Decapitator's main schtick is that when you bring him in from reserves, you get to place him basically anywhere, like a super Infiltrate. However, it's not under the infiltrate rules or anything that I can tell, and you can certainly join ICs to units in reserves before the battle starts, so it should be possible to have Mr. Unused come in accompanied by a load of ICs. I'm not sure what the greatest use of this will be (certainly janky to the max), but there could be some fun combos there. I'm thinking Phoenix Lords.
Fuegan gives you two BS7 melta shots guaranteed in melta range on the rear armor of whatever you want. Karandras gives you some actual melee capabilities. All of the Phoenix Lords give you T4 W4 with 2+ armor. Are there any other DE or Eldar ICs that could use 100% accurate Deep Striking?
This is probably too expensive a tactic to be really worthwhile, and you're almost certainly throwing away your warlord, but it'll be funny.
O great, finally a use(sorta) for him.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/09 20:12:59
Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++
BA players have been thinking about attaching a bunch of ICs to Mephiston now that the BRB doesn't forbid you from joining ICs to units of a single model. They're doing this mainly with Corbulo to get some nasty benefits in toughness from his FnP etc.
That's interesting, and also opens up the possibility of attaching a Haemonculus to a Talos for a pain token at the beginning of the game. I just might have to dust off my WWP and try running it again with some FnP Talos', Avatar and Wraithknights pouring out of it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/09 17:35:44
BA players have been thinking about attaching a bunch of ICs to Mephiston now that the BRB doesn't forbid you from joining ICs to units of a single model. They're doing this mainly with Corbulo to get some nasty benefits in toughness from his FnP etc.
That's interesting, and also opens up the possibility of attaching a Haemonculus to a Talos for a pain token at the beginning of the game. I just might have to dust off my WWP and try running it again with some FnP Talos', Avatar and Wraithknights pouring out of it.
ICs can't join MCs.
Drukhari - 4.7k
Space Marines - 3.1k
Chaos Space Marines - 2.9k
Harlequins - 0.9k
Fast Attack Beastpack - 5x Beastmasters, 25x Khymerae
Only lance is the Dukes pistol...! But so much Haywire its untrue.
Essentially drop in practically everything turn 2, drop the Haemo near their Psykers and open the Crucible, by which time the Beastpack should be in charge range.
The chances of it dying and running off the board turn 1 are very slim due to them being Fearless, just make sure the Autarch is out of LOS and under a roof so he cant be Barrage Sniped or Precision Shot...
Totally crap against flyers however the vehicles are essentially a delivery mechanism, you can lock yourself in combat with the rest...
Just wondering what everyone thinks about it... Not tried it yet but considering most people I play dont take flyers it should work rather well...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/09 19:30:12
Shingen wrote: The events I goto won't be allowing combined arms. If they do though that list is a little scary.
...But combined arms is the only way to have a battle forged list.
I'm sure he means that they won't be allowing multiple combined arms detachments, which is what most of the big tourney talk has been.
For competitive play in tournaments, your probably going to have to make a single combined arms and a single ally detachment list.
insaniak wrote:
YMDC has plenty of room for discussion veering away from the RAW, particularly in cases like this where what is being put forward as the RAW is absurd.
Eldar (Craftworld Sahal-Deran) 2500pts. 2000pts Fully Painted.
Dark Eldar (Kabal of the Slashed Eye) 2000pts. 1250pts Fully Painted. 
Craftworld Eldar 27,500pts
Exalted 
4K
4k