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Maaaann..... it's depressing up in here. I got a pure DE army that isn't fluffy but, still answers a lot of hard questions;

Baron, because Baron.

Beastmaster + Dogs x5 (x4), them I saves.
Beastmaster + Birds x2 (x1), to soak cheap hits.

Duke Sliscus, not entirely necessary.

Blasterborn x4 in Venom + 2nd SpCannon (x3), DS these near what you what need dead.

Kabalites x10 (+ SpCannon and Cheap VBlade Sybarite) in SpRack Raider x as many as you can get and still allow for...

2x TriLance Ravagers and 1x TriDis Ravagers.

If you can fit some Reavers in there, they aren't to tough but, they are one of the game's few adequate counters to Invisibility.

C'mon people. Get Pumped Up. Have a Positive Attitude. Feel the...

...Pumpitude.

Ah don't get me wrong i wanna stick to DE specific armies, but allies can happen, and if they enhance the list then there is no problem with that. i still think that we are able to be competitive as a pure DE army - i don't think its easy, but definitely do-able. And lets face it when has playing DE ever been easy, they aren't a forgiving army, one mistake can ruin the game for you - happens to me affair bit - dice go wrong or i make a simple mistake, doesn't mean imma rage quit them, but also doesn't mean I'm not going to look where i can get some aid from.

Rancid - thats a nice looking basis there, and generally what i have gone for in the past (apart from beast packs - the are going on the purchase list soon), usually provides enough of a poke to wipe anything off the board. but as others have said it can get fairly dull playing the same all the time, i like to switch it up, and yeah it might mean i loose, but i have fun doing it, and its just a game - plus i always know i can drop back to the, shall we say "status-quo" army list and rack up some wins

 SHUPPET wrote:
But you do need a CC weapon or a gun to use as one to attack right? Is not his only weapon poison? Which vehicles are immune to, regardless of the strength of the poison attack.


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I'm thinking I'm wrong here but it's never come up for me, I think I may be wrong about units needing a weapon to attack, in which case he can whack vehicles no prob


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Also I don't have dex on me, do they have a poison weapon or just a special rule stating they have poison attacks

Wracks have 2 poisoned ccw, irrelevant of that they are s3 and with furious charge then can glance vehicles to death. You just use your base strength, everything has a fist or something to wack with.

hmm, thats interesting. But getting slightly of topic, tempted to start a new thread about it. Can you opt to not use the CC weapons your equipped with? I can't see anything in the rules to back that up.

The Poisoned rule says the weapon is St 1 'unless otherwise stated.'

Doesn't it state on the Wrack's unit profile that they are Strength 3? It seems like the Wrack weapons are just generic CC weapons (profile page 404 in the digital edition) with the Poisoned (4+) rule. That profile lists the strength as 'user.'

So how come you are allowed to use that strength (for something other than re-rolling) when you are against tanks, but not allowed to against infantry?

You can't just say that because the poison doesn't work it must mean I get to use my S value for attacking instead, if the poison doesn't affect tanks then it does nothing, the strength behind it is solely a representation of re-roll capability against toughness right.

You can, if you are hitting a t2 model you would wound on a 3+ although you can reroll poison if you don't get a 3 because of the poison rule. For example a Hive Tyrant with Toxin Sacs will still wound a marine on a 2+ irrespective of poison.

Poison weapons are indeed s1, the guy thrusting the weapon is not.


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It's only shooting poison attacks that are 4+ strength 1, not combat poison.

 SHUPPET wrote:
So how come you are allowed to use that strength (for something other than re-rolling) when you are against tanks, but not allowed to against infantry?

You can't just say that because the poison doesn't work it must mean I get to use my S value for attacking instead, if the poison doesn't affect tanks then it does nothing, the strength behind it is solely a representation of re-roll capability against toughness right.

I'm not saying that you can always just choose to use the S value. I'm saying that, against infantry, Poisoned Weapons always wound on a fixed number. Against vehicle, this rule has no effect, and the weapon is S1 unless otherwise noted. And close combat weapons are always otherwise noted.

This isn't a case of not using the weapon and just choosing to use your base Strength as an alternative. If, for example, you had a model with Strength 6 and his only CC weapon was Poisoned (4+), and he hit an infantry model with T4, he does not get to 'default' to his base Strength and wound on a 2+. (Unless he has a generic CC weapon to choose from.) He is forced to use his Poisoned weapon's 4+ (although with a reroll to wound).

I think you guys are right btw I'm just trying to pick it apart so I know how it works and can explain when I get asked these questions

Actually Jim he does. The poison 4+ is only used in the case of a worse roll.


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I'll check the BRB when I get home.

Models are only assumed to have a 'generic' CC weapon if they don't have another one listed, so in the case of a the S6 hand-to-hand scenario, I think he'd be stuck rolling his wounds at a 4+ (with rerolls). I could be wrong, though.

Page 169 in Poisoned.

"it always wounds on the fixed number, unless a lower result would be required."

Shingen wrote:
Page 169 in Poisoned.

"it always wounds on the fixed number, unless a lower result would be required."

Ah. Fair enough. My bad.

Ok here's how it is, the splinter rifles fire thin slivers of poison that are able to rend flesh and get the poison directly into the target's body. Thin, tiny, almost no mass slivers, can you ever, EVER imagine a tank getting a glance from a sliver like that? No.

Now wracks are S3, human strength. With 2 pain tokens, s4, super human strength. Now imagine these super humans smashing these giant blades into the treads of a tank, we're talking some seriously nice metal blades made by the dark eldar, not some pansy bronze metal, some real hard metal. That's where the glance comes from. Maybe they tear into the treads, maybe they find a chink in the armor, who knows?

The point I'm trying to make, is that it's fluffy for splinter rifles to do jack gak and the wracks to be able to hack away at a tank and do something. End of story, get back to actual tactics.

Court of the Archon still a no no?

I want to build up 2 court of the archons just to take a pair of Tantalus as dedicated transports.

Of course that means having 2 Tantalus in the first place....

But no, as far as I can tell, Courts are still relegated to being a fun, but not worth it unit.

Yeah, even if it weren't compulsory to take one of each type, I still don't think I could see using them.

As it is, they go in the barrel with Mandrakes. Interesting concept, but not really viable at this point.

They're one of my high hopes for the new codex, though.

Even 3 full squads outflanking with 1 Haemi each?

The alpha strike possibility against anything non MEQ is pretty scary

The court can throw out a lot of damage from shooting and templates and with Haemo's in there are well they could work but that would mean a Tantalus or a Raider to get them there.

They are not too shabby in CC either, Lhameans are one of the best units in the codex for their points, its just a shame you have to take Ur'Ghuls at he same time as they are pretty dire (except for sticking at the front and dying before anything else).

I will get the models at some point just for my presentation board but I doubt I would ever use them unless drunk.

Its a shame really, they are probably the best models in the DE range...

I wrote up a blog on Dark Eldar vs. Mech spam. Thanks for the inspiration for the subject, everyone.

Just read through the codex again, it's been awhile since I've last done that. just noticed some things that I never really considered before.

first if you do take the Court of the Archon, all shooting and CC attacks made by the Archon are 2+ to wound, would this also work with grenades? skip the phantasm, give him the haywire to get a 2+ wound blast going. Also you could give him either the electrocorrosive whip which would also be wounding on a 2+ and with 6 attacks on the charge that sounds like a lot of fun for MC's right there. Basically stops ID in CC. Otherwise, the power weapon could be interesting, wounding on 2+

Another thing I never noticed, was that Drazhar was str4 and with demiklaives becomes str6 and with FC becomes str7, some serious choppa right there, even more with his onslaught ability. Get him in the tantalus for THE MOST EXPENSIVE, THE MOST FRAGILE, deathstar that I can think of.

Mindphase Gauntlet on an ancient Haemi would also be interesting, if you managed to pull that off on an expensive initiative 4 IC, I would be infinitely impressed

finally the last thing I considered was Shatterfield Missles for the Razorwing, being able to glance vehicles with that str7 blast on IG gun lines might prove invaluable for a mere 20 points for 4 of them.

@Jancoran I really liked your blog, it really helps show how versatile DE are, keep up the good work!

Only poisoned weapons (for an Archon, the splinter pistol) are affected by the 2+ buff.

oh you're right, totally missed that. Also with furious charge don't wracks get reroll to wound against T4 and below?

T3 now, your strength has to be higher.

 Barrywise wrote:
@Jancoran I really liked your blog, it really helps show how versatile DE are, keep up the good work!

Spanks. there's a lot of good stuff there. i dont put things up daily like some blogs, usually a few a month, but it makes the content more useful than just bombing you endlessly with rumors.

I liked your assessment Janc. I'm not convinced fully of the viability of Webway delivered units (it just hasn't worked out for me yet...) but it still seems solid on paper. Glad to see someone else not acting like I'm crazy for touting the utility of Rakarth's Uber-Grotesques! The only one I really couldn't agree on was Sslyth. I think the baggage they bring (in the form of the rest of the Court) is just too much to make them worth it.

Have you considered Hellions, btw? They can threaten up to Armor 10, 11 if they have Furious Charge or the +1 Strength drug. And Sathonyx can threaten 11 from the jump. I've had consistent good results from them in the anti-vehicle department.

I mentioned Sathonyx in the post. So yeah.

Urien + Grotesques are awesome. I use 7 foot slogging Grotesques myself.

The Sslyth... you should try it. That flamer is not a bad deal and the unit can take on a LOT of different types of foes, not just vehicles. Give them a shot.

Grotesques taken for anti Wave Serpent duty isn't that great. A squad of Wyches will wreck one, why overkill the hell out of it with Urien Grots... I mean if you only take 1 Raider of Grots it's getting nuked their turn 1 and it's cargo has to run the rest of the way or get shot in the open and it could have been 2 squads of Wyches, if you take 3 squads, you could have taken like 5-6 Wyches. We will only win by target saturation not by putting overkill units in Raider.

Grots are best tasked to other things, not vehicles.

Lances and Haywire for vehicles.

Grotesques for non-termi, mid to elite infantry.

Wracks for just about everything with an armour save depending on size and exact weapons load out.

Talos.. well Talos just do what they do.

mmmm Coven.

Well you SAY that but what REALLY happens is that anything in their way gets rolled.

 SHUPPET wrote:
Grotesques taken for anti Wave Serpent duty isn't that great. A squad of Wyches will wreck one, why overkill the hell out of it with Urien Grots... I mean if you only take 1 Raider of Grots it's getting nuked their turn 1 and it's cargo has to run the rest of the way or get shot in the open and it could have been 2 squads of Wyches, if you take 3 squads, you could have taken like 5-6 Wyches. We will only win by target saturation not by putting overkill units in Raider.

"They'll get shot out of their Raider turn 1" seems to be the go-to argument against Grotesques. It just doesn't shake out that way for me. Maybe I'm just lucky. But I consistently--across many games--get good results from the grotesques.