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The fact you do not scatter does not mean you get to charge, and as an assault unit, charging is QUITE important.

Any plan including gate and assault is a problem.

Some good ideas guys but remember every model in the unit needs a different toughness or the whole thing won't work for majority toughness rule.

Tbf mobility is an issue but not as big an issue as people state. Look at the swarm star - it was less mobile but still worked well. And after turn1 the unit will be anywhere between 7" and 2" from the opponents deployment zone. (6" scout, 6" move for everyone but the bike who can move 10" and maintain 2" coherency due to the long base, 1-6" run. 24-6-10-1 or 24-6-10-6). The unit can then also split once in the opponents deployment zone if there are no hugely threatening assault units, mephy going off, chap master going off and the inquisitor and corbs joining and buffing another unit, thus being able to cover 3 times as much ground.

On top of these things that are being overlooked, there is also the rest of the list which can help funnel other units, destroy transports and demolish the rare units which may cause this one issues.
Take this list for example:

Mephiston

Corbulo

Furioso
Frag cannon, magna grapple, melta gun
Pod

Furioso
Frag cannon, magna grapple, melta gun
Pod

8 death company
Bolters
Pod

5 assault marines
Melta, 2 infernus pistols, melta bombs
Pod

5 assault marines
Melta, 2 infernus pistols, melta bombs
Pod

Stormraven
Tl mm, tl ac, 4 hs missiles

Chapter master (white scars or Iron hands)
Bike, artificier armour, thunder hammer, shield eternal

5 scouts
Snipers

Stormtalon
Tl ac, skyhammer

Predator
Lascannon side sponsoons

Inquisitor
Power armour, liber heresius, plasma syphon

1998pts

Furiosos and DC come down first to wreck squadrons/tanks/troops and get a turn 2 charge. Melta squad pods help deal with any vehicles which escape and come down 2nd turn against serp spam after shields are down from firing. Pred goes after light transports. Flyers are AA and go after transports afterwards. Scouts try to pin units in place.

Whilst AC-DC just advance straight down the centre.

 BoomWolf wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Lack of Mobility? No problem, add a GK librarian, roll on sanctic, get gate of infinity, deep strike around the board every turn. And Sanctuary to give your iron hands man a 2++

Gate makes you deep strike, meaning no assault.
As this unit got very little in guns-it renders it quite useless.

I think you can survive one turn after you deep strike

You sure can. But including gate means including another T4 model which is an issue. Tbf being between 2-7" from the opponents deployment zone after turn 1 means GoI isn't really needed anyway.

 Glorywarrior wrote:

I think you can survive one turn after you deep strike

So the deathstar can kill 3 units assuming none of the units you want to kill are within 6" of a transport or can move more than 12" if they want. Not that amazing with the focus on high mobility units which 7th edition tactical objectives favor.

wtnind wrote:

 Glorywarrior wrote:

I think you can survive one turn after you deep strike

So the deathstar can kill 3 units assuming none of the units you want to kill are within 6" of a transport or can move more than 12" if they want. Not that amazing with the focus on high mobility units which 7th edition tactical objectives favor.

If you scout you will end up 2-7" from the opponents deployment zone. The chapter master can nip off with his extended range in one direction whilst mephy can pop off with fleet in the other. Your other units can deal with the transports and fast moving units.
GoI really isn't needed.
Everybody is forgetting that the slower swarmstar actually worked.

I was thinking about this last night and picked up Mephiston on Ebay to try it out...

For around 1750 points:

GK Primary
Draigo
3 x Duo-Paladins
Dreadknight
Dreadnought

BA Allies
Meph
Tac squad with Land Raider

Turn 1 have Draigo and Meph jump in the super scoring LR and drive straight up the field. The rest can do whatever it feels like!

 Glorywarrior wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Lack of Mobility? No problem, add a GK librarian, roll on sanctic, get gate of infinity, deep strike around the board every turn. And Sanctuary to give your iron hands man a 2++

Gate makes you deep strike, meaning no assault.
As this unit got very little in guns-it renders it quite useless.

I think you can survive one turn after you deep strike

Yeah, this unit should easily be able to withstand 5 grav cannons being shot at it unlike those flimsy Necron Transcendent C'Tans.

Yeah.

Actually thinking about average rolls for grav... 25 shots from a cent star, ~17hit, split them roughly 8 on corbs and 9 on chap master. Majority save is 3+, so with rerolls, your looking at ~6 wounds on corbs and ~7 on chap master. So thats 1 wound on corbs after fnp (or none if he still has the reroll) and ~2 on the chapter master after 3++/6+++. The hurricane bolters will hit ~26times within 12", 4 will wound, these 4 then have to get past a 3+ and then a 2+++ so are unlikely to do anything. So about ever so slightly above 3 wounds on average out of the units 14. Thats not too bad for durability considering the 510pt unit (not including cent star characters) is supposed to be a point and delete unit.

 curran12 wrote:

 OIIIIIIO wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
However, Mephiston, not being an Idependent Character, cannot join a unit. Therefore, that cancels that out.

An IC can join a unit, however, Mephiston still cannot join a group.

pg. 100 for my reference under Independent Characters.

Pg 100 tells you to reference pg 166.

Let me lay out the logic here for me.

It is not about the ICs in the unit. That part is fine and they can totally join one-model units.

However, the problem lies with Mephiston. He is a character, but not independent. Therefore, he cannot join units. Saying "oh but these ICs are joining him" is not adequate, as joining works both ways, Meph is also joining a unit, which he cannot do because he is not an IC.

nothing about characters says they must be ICs to join a unit.

Take a chapter master joining a tactical squad. The tactical squad is not an IC, yet the chapter master can join it. The Sergeant is not an IC yet he can still be in the unit. Now what happens if the tactical squad takes 9 wounds, and the Sergeant is still alive. The chapter master can still join the sergeant, even though the sergeant is not an IC.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheKbob wrote:
Dante + Gate = You don't scatter.

So go ahead, plop down Coteaz + Draigo + Mephi + Corbulo + Dante with gate. Tank on Draigo, use Mephi for T6, LOS all non-AP3, S7 or less wounds to Corbulo and provide spells with Coteaz. You might have to "fire off" Dante to use the T6 well, but that's life.

arent Dante and Corulo both T4, thus making the whole unit T4?

It seems a bit meh.
It will die just the same from weight of fire.
Assault with a blob can help kill off the ICs eventually and potentially lock meph in a challenge
Direction fire can help remove models
Depending on how many psykers the enemy has can potentially counter biomancy.
Vortex would be funny
a BIG IG blob with a inquisitor + psyocculum would be funny too
2++ sanctuary assault terminators can own the unit

I think its worth a try though

Roll Invisbility on a guy, problem solved

 Desubot wrote:
It seems a bit meh.
It will die just the same from weight of fire.
Assault with a blob can help kill off the ICs eventually and potentially lock meph in a challenge
Direction fire can help remove models
Depending on how many psykers the enemy has can potentially counter biomancy.
Vortex would be funny
a BIG IG blob with a inquisitor + psyocculum would be funny too
2++ sanctuary assault terminators can own the unit

I think its worth a try though

IG blob can't do anything to T9.

If I'm not mistaken this unit is also majority WS7 too.

I don't think you appreciate how hard it is to put weight of fire on a T9 unit. If you can deny his blessing, then yeah. Otherwise, name a thing that's S6+ and has a large number of shots. Remember, unless it's AP2, you're looking for 6 wounds to get one through the armor and 2 more to get through the FNP. As long as the CM can be the target that's 32 wounds you need to put on it. 180+ hits from S6 or above. Grav weapons make the math less daunting, but when you get close to killing the CM he starts using LOS, and between turns rotates who's closest to him. Of course, you might be hitting the unit from all sides and not even all hitting the same model anyway.

Mavnas wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
It seems a bit meh.
It will die just the same from weight of fire.
Assault with a blob can help kill off the ICs eventually and potentially lock meph in a challenge
Direction fire can help remove models
Depending on how many psykers the enemy has can potentially counter biomancy.
Vortex would be funny
a BIG IG blob with a inquisitor + psyocculum would be funny too
2++ sanctuary assault terminators can own the unit

I think its worth a try though

IG blob can't do anything to T9.

If I'm not mistaken this unit is also majority WS7 too.

I don't think you appreciate how hard it is to put weight of fire on a T9 unit. If you can deny his blessing, then yeah. Otherwise, name a thing that's S6+ and has a large number of shots. Remember, unless it's AP2, you're looking for 6 wounds to get one through the armor and 2 more to get through the FNP. As long as the CM can be the target that's 32 wounds you need to put on it. 180+ hits from S6 or above. Grav weapons make the math less daunting, but when you get close to killing the CM he starts using LOS, and between turns rotates who's closest to him. Of course, you might be hitting the unit from all sides and not even all hitting the same model anyway.

To top it off, without iron arm (as biomany is not essential), if it is st7 or less you have corbulo tanking with T6, 3+ followed by a 2+ fnp. If its ap3 or worse you have a 2+ chap master, if its ap2 you have a 3++ chap master. Direction of fire will help remove the inquisitor... but you still have LoS. Corbulo, the chapter master and mephy dont care about direction of fire as they are all tanks themselves. IG blob wouldn't do a thing to it. A IG blob struggles against a T4 corbulo who cant LoS to a chapter master, against a T6/T9 corbulo, who can also pass dangerous shots to an EW, 3++ chapter master they may as well break a pen and spit paper wads at the star.
And a blob is a perfect target for the general BA units running alongside it.

Abaddon, land raider (so he can chase your deathstar) and bel'kor to invisible Abaddon. Abaddon can 1 v 3 when you need 6+ to hit.

Best bit is you can have some csm in the landraider too who can go off scoring objectives with belkor so they are achieving stuff in the game.

Mavnas wrote:

I don't think you appreciate how hard it is to put weight of fire on a T9 unit. If you can deny his blessing, then yeah. Otherwise, name a thing that's S6+ and has a large number of shots.

Snipers. Wound on a 4+, every 6 rolled on the to wound roll is resolved at AP2.

@op, are you sure your list is battle forged? I get the BA primary detachment, plus SM allies, but how are you getting the inquisitor in? Is he noted as not taking up a FOC slot in the Inquisition dex?


[edit for clarity]

MarkCron wrote:

Mavnas wrote:

I don't think you appreciate how hard it is to put weight of fire on a T9 unit. If you can deny his blessing, then yeah. Otherwise, name a thing that's S6+ and has a large number of shots.

Snipers. Wound on a 4+, every 6 rolled on the to wound roll is resolved at AP2.

@op, are you sure your list is battle forged? I get the BA primary detachment, plus SM allies, but how are you getting the inquisitor in? Is he noted as not taking up a FOC slot in the Inquisition dex?


[edit for clarity]

Inquisition dex is counted as a seperate detachment which does not take up the allied detachment.
Also, corbulo's 3+/2+++ or a chap master with 2+/3++/6+++, IWND both eat sniper fire for breakfast. They don't care if 1/6 of the hits are ap2 really.

Poly Ranger wrote:

MarkCron wrote:

Mavnas wrote:

I don't think you appreciate how hard it is to put weight of fire on a T9 unit. If you can deny his blessing, then yeah. Otherwise, name a thing that's S6+ and has a large number of shots.

Snipers. Wound on a 4+, every 6 rolled on the to wound roll is resolved at AP2.

@op, are you sure your list is battle forged? I get the BA primary detachment, plus SM allies, but how are you getting the inquisitor in? Is he noted as not taking up a FOC slot in the Inquisition dex?


[edit for clarity]

Inquisition dex is counted as a seperate detachment which does not take up the allied detachment.
Also, corbulo's 3+/2+++ or a chap master with 2+/3++/6+++, IWND both eat sniper fire for breakfast. They don't care if 1/6 of the hits are ap2 really.

So the Inquisition dex specifies single Inquisitor is a Detachment? I thought the only detachments we had now were Combined Arms, Allied and Formations.

Re the snipers, that was just an example that came to mind.

"When you choose an army Inquisitors may be taken as a primary detachment or as a special form of allied detachment known as an Inquisitorial detachment.
...
An army may include an inquisitorial detachment in addition to any other detachments. Other detachments, such as allied detachments, additional primary detachments and fortifications may be taken normally."

The FOC box for inquisitorial detachments shows a required 1 HQ and an optional 1 HQ and 3 Elite slots. Inquisitors are couunted as HQ choices.

Thanks, I don't have that Dex.

No probs. Its digital. Their special circumstances always causes confusion.

The rulebook section on detachments mentions that there are books that will contain alternate detachment Force Org Charts. Codex: Inquisition definitely falls under that umbrella.

Interesting.
I'm thinking of taking Coteaz, normal inquisitor, 6 units of henchmen (psyker + 2 warriors) as primary.
As additional detachments, 9 units of grey knights in power armor, 9 inquisitors, and 9 more henchmen units.
Gives me 26 psychic screams, and a stupid number of dice for the psychic phase (36 +D6 dice).

-Matt

I've pondered over how i could deathstar my space wolves to take on my mates beast-star.

The best i've figured for a SM Death star is a combo of space wolves and White Scars. I'll stick to the contents of the death star but there should be enough points to fill the required troops slots in a 1750 list.

basically

Primary: Space Wolves

HQ

- Thunderwolf lord: Storm Shield, Saga of the Bear, Runic Armour Powerfist, Wolf tooth necklace

- Thunderwolf lord: Belt of Russ, Runic Armour, Powerfist, Wolf Claw, Wolf tooth necklace

- Rune priest - Bike, Runic Armour, ML2 on Sanctic, Wolf tooth necklace


Fast Attack

- x5 Thunderwolf Cavalry, x5 Stormshields


Allies: White Scars

HQ

x1 Librarian - Bike, Shield Eternal, ML2 Rolling on Telepathy


Basically your hoping to roll 'Sanctuary' on Sanctic on the Rune Priest and 'invisability' on Telepathy on the White Scar Librarian. provided these powers get off it should give the unit a 2++ invuln and force opponents to snapshot / hit the unit on a 6+ in mele on top of the 12" move, S10 Weapons, and having the whitescar on a bike confirs hit and run

Thinking about it i think here might be a fum one.

Culexus Assassin
Power field DA Techmarine
fill out the rest of the points into malleus inquisitors terminator psycannon
perhaps add in a psyocculum and a grenade/plasma syphon quiz
all with psyker lv 1

It will be a dumb unit but that is a big unit of
multi wound characters,
that all can generate spells,
that buffs up the culexus ap 2 attacks,
all with psycannons which do fun stuff,
that hits psykers on bs 10
that cant be shot at without a 3d6 ld check
that cant be shot at with plasma weapons without being snapped

Funnier if you get your hands on invisibility sanctuary or even VoD

as well if you get gates of infinity you could use homing beacon type transports to set up teleport zones to get into good shooting angles.

its silly but i think great fun.

wtnind wrote:
Abaddon, land raider (so he can chase your deathstar) and bel'kor to invisible Abaddon. Abaddon can 1 v 3 when you need 6+ to hit.

Best bit is you can have some csm in the landraider too who can go off scoring objectives with belkor so they are achieving stuff in the game.

abby must challenge, chapter master likely accepts


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mavnas wrote:


I don't think you appreciate how hard it is to put weight of fire on a T9 unit. If you can deny his blessing, then yeah. Otherwise, name a thing that's S6+ and has a large number of shots. Remember, unless it's AP2, you're looking for 6 wounds to get one through the armor and 2 more to get through the FNP. As long as the CM can be the target that's 32 wounds you need to put on it. 180+ hits from S6 or above. Grav weapons make the math less daunting, but when you get close to killing the CM he starts using LOS, and between turns rotates who's closest to him. Of course, you might be hitting the unit from all sides and not even all hitting the same model anyway.

Another death star that DE eat for breakfast.

Venom, raider and ravagers can run around kiting the unit until they either get Colbulo to fail an LOS on a dark lance or he fails 2 FNP saves, then the unit withers fast. To make things interesting, try shattershard and see what units cant roll under their individual toughness or be removed from the game.

 Exergy wrote:

abby must challenge, chapter master likely accepts

Chapter master looses:
Master has: 3/4? attacks with 6+ to hit 2+ to wound with Abaddons 4++
Abaddon has: 8 attacks (5+D6) with 3+ to hit 4+ to wound with Chapter masters 3++

7th edition Invisible abaddon wins against anything including a stompa (well maybe the stompa squishes him with a lucky stomp actually).

MarkCron wrote:

Mavnas wrote:

I don't think you appreciate how hard it is to put weight of fire on a T9 unit. If you can deny his blessing, then yeah. Otherwise, name a thing that's S6+ and has a large number of shots.

Snipers. Wound on a 4+, every 6 rolled on the to wound roll is resolved at AP2.

@op, are you sure your list is battle forged? I get the BA primary detachment, plus SM allies, but how are you getting the inquisitor in? Is he noted as not taking up a FOC slot in the Inquisition dex?


[edit for clarity]

Ah that's only like 50 sniper shots you need.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

wtnind wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

abby must challenge, chapter master likely accepts

Chapter master looses:
Master has: 3/4? attacks with 6+ to hit 2+ to wound with Abaddons 4++
Abaddon has: 8 attacks (5+D6) with 3+ to hit 4+ to wound with Chapter masters 3++

7th edition Invisible abaddon wins against anything including a stompa (well maybe the stompa squishes him with a lucky stomp actually).

In 7th wounds spill into the challenge. Abadon must take hits from all 4.

Mavnas wrote:

MarkCron wrote:

Mavnas wrote:

I don't think you appreciate how hard it is to put weight of fire on a T9 unit. If you can deny his blessing, then yeah. Otherwise, name a thing that's S6+ and has a large number of shots.

Snipers. Wound on a 4+, every 6 rolled on the to wound roll is resolved at AP2.

@op, are you sure your list is battle forged? I get the BA primary detachment, plus SM allies, but how are you getting the inquisitor in? Is he noted as not taking up a FOC slot in the Inquisition dex?


[edit for clarity]

Ah that's only like 50 sniper shots you need.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

wtnind wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

abby must challenge, chapter master likely accepts

Chapter master looses:
Master has: 3/4? attacks with 6+ to hit 2+ to wound with Abaddons 4++
Abaddon has: 8 attacks (5+D6) with 3+ to hit 4+ to wound with Chapter masters 3++

7th edition Invisible abaddon wins against anything including a stompa (well maybe the stompa squishes him with a lucky stomp actually).

In 7th wounds spill into the challenge. Abadon must take hits from all 4.

unless there is no unit with abby, then they just stand around while abby's wounds spill into them. If abby is alone, likely one member of the unit doesnt get to fight and the rest swing at abby.