Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Zagman wrote: Crowe Purifiers is now a viable list once again. Even without Crowe, they are still pretty awesome because cheap spam able Psycannons are awesome. Adding two WC is just gravy.
@jy2
Not sold on that list buddy, I don't see those WC generated by those Henchmen as being all that useful. Voters only can cast so many powers, unless you are throwing Sanctuary on your dreads and Storm ravens.
Where is Coteaz going, he's got to be on the field for his Osychic powers to be of use?
No worries. The henchmen are there more for the Objective Secured scoring bodies than for the psychic powers. The extra warp charges and the S3 large blasts for only 6-pts more is just a bonus.
Normally, I'd actually put Coteaz in a raven with the henchmen. However, it really depends on what type of army you play against. If you go up against an army where you think you'd be needing Coteaz's powers, then put him in a unit with the Purifiers.
I figured, but now that I realize they get Telepaphy, a free roll plus Psychic Shriek... wow, I now see a use for every one of those power dice. Invisible PsyRifleman.... Invisible Rhinos of Doom! So many good options in Telepaphy.
Heck, you could even jump them out and Shroud your Ravens, 2+Cover Jink with lots of Twinlinked shots and POMS.
Though, if you are planning on spamming Psychic Shriek, you'll need Rhinos, or just jump them out of the Razorbacks which is hilarious.
Definitely better now that I'm thinking past Sanctic.
I want to try actually casting their powers, as often as possible. Not really the witchfire so much as Dominate, Invis, Shrouding, Hallucinate and Terrify.
Six rolls on Telepathy and then choose where to place them based on what they have. Someone with Shrouding or Invis could camp an important objective, units with Dominate or Terrify could be sent further afield.
Essentially I want to force an opponent to drastically overkill these (extreme) MSU due to their annoying debuffs. The objective campers will probably actually be safer in the open with invis than inside a rhino chasis. All six units are only 108 points after all, it seems a small investment for the attention they'll draw.
But yes, I am concerned about their survivability and am considering points-efficient solutions. A single Crusader would nearly double the price of each unit but could potentially save the unit from a lot of anti-GEQ fire.
I might take the vehicles to advance the psykers up the field Turn 1-2, but I'd like to experiment with them dismounted as much as possible.
This turned into a psyker henchman thread! Lol, that's ok, there wasn't really anything else to say about Purifiers anyway.
PS - I agree with the others Telepathy is the best tree for psyker henchmen to roll on, shriek is a good primaris and many of the powers you can roll for are good and of couese Invisibility is ridiculous.
Purifiers are going to be a mean shutdown for the deamon factory. Turn 1 advance 12" in a transport and snap fire 4 shots per psycannon in heavy 4 mode. Turn 2 tank shock 12" into the middle of the deamonic army and cast cleansing flame.
A 9" nova has an 18" diameter.
Cursed earth has a 24" diameter, but is a double edged sword because it will crowd the newly summoned units into a 24" diameter area.
Heralds summoned by sacrifice are not able to join a unit until it's controlling player's next turn so they each eat 2D6 S5 ignore cover hits and almost certainly die. T3 horrors and deamonettes are highly dependent on shrouding from Be'Lekor to keep them alive.
You'll probably need to toss a ton of dice and eat a perils to ensure it doesn't get cancelled with a DTW, but purifiers have brotherhood of psykers and thanks to henchmen GK can keep up with deamons on generating power dice.
Chaos isn’t a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail, and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but refuse. They cling to the realm, or love, or the gods…illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is, but they’ll never know this. Not until it’s too late.
It is funny that rhinos and razorbacks were so bad in 6th but now the GK ones are just so good when give objective secured and with their +1 WC, AV11 front and sides, and 7+ to explode.
I think that is why purfiers and henchmen are somewhat related and even semi interchangeable as they both give you good access to objective secured rhinos or razorbacks.
I was thinking something very similar Jy2. The cheap psyker henchmen units are just awesome for unlocking OS psybacks, they rack up a huge number of WC that way, and they get a great discipline and don't even have to trade the power in for the very useful psychic shriek.
One of the best things about them is that they can let the punchy/tough units get close and use their WC dice if they need. So if you want all your purifiers to pop their powers and sword you could do it now using the henchmen, psybacks, and rhinos as batteries.
Super Newb wrote: Purifiers - scoring now (but not objective secured) on their own. Same as Rhino.
Vehicles don't explode as easily.
Mech lists will be more common. Psycannons are good at stripping hull point.
Purifier psychic power is a witch fire now so it can be cast from inside the vehicle.
5 purifiers, two psycannons in a Rhino sounds like a good idea in 7th. Thoughts?
few problems overall that need to be thought about. Not that Purifiers arent better again, but possible stumbling blocks to consider and mitigate against, that didnt exist in 5th.
Psyrifleman are now really easy to HP strip. 170 some odd points, 3 HP. A lot of armies can hull point that down pretty quickly at which point where is your range? Probably best to add in some Psybacks to ensure you dont get kited around after your riflemen die and you are left with 24" weapons.
2+ saves. As always, since 6th GK need to think about enemy armor saves. A few daemon more hammers need to be added in to threaten any 2+ saves that might be about.
Tau and Eldar now exist. Who can kill a AV11 3hp box better than anyone else and then put a ignores cover str9 AP2 blast on top of the unit and it doesnt scatter? What is the plan to go against eldar skimmers of doom? Super elite short ranges troops are not the answer to eldar or tau.
Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++
Super Newb wrote: Purifiers - scoring now (but not objective secured) on their own. Same as Rhino.
Vehicles don't explode as easily.
Mech lists will be more common. Psycannons are good at stripping hull point.
Purifier psychic power is a witch fire now so it can be cast from inside the vehicle.
5 purifiers, two psycannons in a Rhino sounds like a good idea in 7th. Thoughts?
few problems overall that need to be thought about. Not that Purifiers arent better again, but possible stumbling blocks to consider and mitigate against, that didnt exist in 5th.
Psyrifleman are now really easy to HP strip. 170 some odd points, 3 HP. A lot of armies can hull point that down pretty quickly at which point where is your range? Probably best to add in some Psybacks to ensure you dont get kited around after your riflemen die and you are left with 24" weapons.
2+ saves. As always, since 6th GK need to think about enemy armor saves. A few daemon more hammers need to be added in to threaten any 2+ saves that might be about.
Tau and Eldar now exist. Who can kill a AV11 3hp box better than anyone else and then put a ignores cover str9 AP2 blast on top of the unit and it doesnt scatter? What is the plan to go against eldar skimmers of doom? Super elite short ranges troops are not the answer to eldar or tau.
Psyflemans are more survivable now than they used to be before, thanks to vehicle damage charts and the nerf to Smash attacks. BTW, they are only 135-pt.
2+ saves are dealt with by volume-of-fire and mass rending, same as it's been since 5th.
Tau and Eldar will continue to be a thorn like they've always been. Though Tau has been nerfed to an extent (yeah....no more buffmander with a riptide! Plus skyfire Tau can now only snapshot at ground units, which is why I recommend stormravens in a GK list nowadays). Eldar serpent-spam is super-nasty, but they're actually slightly easier for GK's to deal with than massed riptides (thank you psyflemans).
If anything, GK's have become better against these armies just because it now takes more firepower to kill off their mobile, psychic deathtraps, which can score as well!
schadenfreude wrote: Purifiers are going to be a mean shutdown for the deamon factory. Turn 1 advance 12" in a transport and snap fire 4 shots per psycannon in heavy 4 mode.
12 inches and then shooting out of a transport? Please tell me that isn't allowed in 7th lol.
A 9" nova has an 18" diameter.
Yes, which is cool beans. But to be fair it is only Assault 2D6 so that's around 7 hits each time it is used.
Psyflemans are more survivable now than they used to be before, thanks to vehicle damage charts and the nerf to Smash attacks. BTW, they are only 135-pt.
2+ saves are dealt with by volume-of-fire and mass rending, same as it's been since 5th.
Tau and Eldar will continue to be a thorn like they've always been. Though Tau has been nerfed to an extent (yeah....no more buffmander with a riptide! Plus skyfire Tau can now only snapshot at ground units, which is why I recommend stormravens in a GK list nowadays). Eldar serpent-spam is super-nasty, but they're actually slightly easier for GK's to deal with than massed riptides (thank you psyflemans).
If anything, GK's have become better against these armies just because it now takes more firepower to kill off their mobile, psychic deathtraps, which can score as well!
I agree with everything you just said.
FYI, Velocity Trackers offer option Skyfire, so Tau don't Snap Shot at ground targets. We just turn our Velocity Trackers off, damned Xenos ingenuity.
Psyflemans are more survivable now than they used to be before, thanks to vehicle damage charts and the nerf to Smash attacks. BTW, they are only 135-pt.
Ahh I was thinking about those overpriced CSM forgefiends which do the same thing, yet cost so much more and arent psykers
Yes they are more survivable now than they were in 6th, but they are less survivable than they were in 5th.
Tau and Eldar will continue to be a thorn like they've always been. Though Tau has been nerfed to an extent (yeah....no more buffmander with a riptide! Plus skyfire Tau can now only snapshot at ground units, which is why I recommend stormravens in a GK list nowadays). Eldar serpent-spam is super-nasty, but they're actually slightly easier for GK's to deal with than massed riptides (thank you psyflemans).
Not debating that GK cant stack up against crazy Tau and Eldar, but GK wont be doing as well as they did in 5th, because these 6th edition books are out there and also match up well against GK.
If anything, GK's have become better against these armies just because it now takes more firepower to kill off their mobile, psychic deathtraps, which can score as well!
I agree they have gotten much better. I was more just trying to point out that taking a old 5th edition list, dusting it off and playing it and expecting the same kinds of results might not work, as the rules have changed and the meta has changed.
Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++
schadenfreude wrote: Purifiers are going to be a mean shutdown for the deamon factory. Turn 1 advance 12" in a transport and snap fire 4 shots per psycannon in heavy 4 mode.
12 inches and then shooting out of a transport? Please tell me that isn't allowed in 7th lol.
A 9" nova has an 18" diameter.
Yes, which is cool beans. But to be fair it is only Assault 2D6 so that's around 7 hits each time it is used.
biggest issue GK's still have is their range. you can only kill whats in your range, which is why I think interceptors are better then purifiers. Purifiers will have a target on their ride, once they are walking they don't scare me much. Heck even their nova is limited by its 9" range meaning sure you can tag 3-4 units, but you probably will only be able to allocate wounds to 1-2 each. Not that scary.
Team SG has been playing and posting batreps on a GK/Marine list.
Red Corsair wrote: biggest issue GK's still have is their range. you can only kill whats in your range, which is why I think interceptors are better then purifiers. Purifiers will have a target on their ride, once they are walking they don't scare me much. Heck even their nova is limited by its 9" range meaning sure you can tag 3-4 units, but you probably will only be able to allocate wounds to 1-2 each. Not that scary.
Team SG has been playing and posting batreps on a GK/Marine list.
schadenfreude wrote: Purifiers are going to be a mean shutdown for the deamon factory. Turn 1 advance 12" in a transport and snap fire 4 shots per psycannon in heavy 4 mode.
12 inches and then shooting out of a transport? Please tell me that isn't allowed in 7th lol.
A 9" nova has an 18" diameter.
Yes, which is cool beans. But to be fair it is only Assault 2D6 so that's around 7 hits each time it is used.
It's snap fire because they moved 12". The squad has 3 options. Sit still and fire 4 shots per psycannonin heavy 4 at bs4, move 6" and fire 2 shots in assault 2 at bs4, or move 12" in a transport and snap fire 4 shots in heavy 4.
The nova can be fired after moving 12" with no penalties.
It's 2d6 per unit hit so yep 7 hits on average per unit
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Red Corsair wrote: biggest issue GK's still have is their range. you can only kill whats in your range, which is why I think interceptors are better then purifiers. Purifiers will have a target on their ride, once they are walking they don't scare me much. Heck even their nova is limited by its 9" range meaning sure you can tag 3-4 units, but you probably will only be able to allocate wounds to 1-2 each. Not that scary.
Team SG has been playing and posting batreps on a GK/Marine list.
Threat range on a 9" nova is 21" which is pretty far if they advance 12" while snap fire in heavy 4. Odds are good if you see purifiers it's going to be 3 squads of 5 in rhinos.
6 henchmen psybacks + 3 purifiers in rhinos might be the way to go. The rhinos could also advance 12", popsmoke, and block los to a henchman psyker with 6" aoe shrouding behind them. That would allow them to secure midfield with a 3+ cover for a round.
plus against deamons 20 points gives 2 henchmen squads a banisher.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/05 08:55:39
Chaos isn’t a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail, and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but refuse. They cling to the realm, or love, or the gods…illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is, but they’ll never know this. Not until it’s too late.
It's snap fire because they moved 12". The squad has 3 options. Sit still and fire 4 shots per psycannonin heavy 4 at bs4, move 6" and fire 2 shots in assault 2 at bs4, or move 12" in a transport and snap fire 4 shots in heavy 4.
I thought in 6th guys in transports couldn't fire weapons if the transport moved more than 6 inches for a regular vehicle. That's changed in 7th?
It's snap fire because they moved 12". The squad has 3 options. Sit still and fire 4 shots per psycannonin heavy 4 at bs4, move 6" and fire 2 shots in assault 2 at bs4, or move 12" in a transport and snap fire 4 shots in heavy 4.
I thought in 6th guys in transports couldn't fire weapons if the transport moved more than 6 inches for a regular vehicle. That's changed in 7th?
They can still fire. The only thing is that if the vehicle moved 6"+ (and assuming there are fire points), the passengers embarked may only snap-fire.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/05 14:59:04
schadenfreude wrote: Purifiers are going to be a mean shutdown for the deamon factory. Turn 1 advance 12" in a transport and snap fire 4 shots per psycannon in heavy 4 mode.
12 inches and then shooting out of a transport? Please tell me that isn't allowed in 7th lol.
A 9" nova has an 18" diameter.
Yes, which is cool beans. But to be fair it is only Assault 2D6 so that's around 7 hits each time it is used.
It's snap fire because they moved 12". The squad has 3 options. Sit still and fire 4 shots per psycannonin heavy 4 at bs4, move 6" and fire 2 shots in assault 2 at bs4, or move 12" in a transport and snap fire 4 shots in heavy 4.
The nova can be fired after moving 12" with no penalties.
It's 2d6 per unit hit so yep 7 hits on average per unit
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Red Corsair wrote: biggest issue GK's still have is their range. you can only kill whats in your range, which is why I think interceptors are better then purifiers. Purifiers will have a target on their ride, once they are walking they don't scare me much. Heck even their nova is limited by its 9" range meaning sure you can tag 3-4 units, but you probably will only be able to allocate wounds to 1-2 each. Not that scary.
Team SG has been playing and posting batreps on a GK/Marine list.
Threat range on a 9" nova is 21" which is pretty far if they advance 12" while snap fire in heavy 4. Odds are good if you see purifiers it's going to be 3 squads of 5 in rhinos.
6 henchmen psybacks + 3 purifiers in rhinos might be the way to go. The rhinos could also advance 12", popsmoke, and block los to a henchman psyker with 6" aoe shrouding behind them. That would allow them to secure midfield with a 3+ cover for a round.
plus against demons 20 points gives 2 henchmen squads a banisher.
Yes I know what the best case scenario for a minimum result nova is. My point was your not doing jack until turn 2 really. If you move 12 your still 12 out from their deployment, so turn 1 is a bust and your just snap firing those canons but more likely moving flat out meaning no smoke. Turn 2 assuming they are idiots and haven't seen it coming and haven't killed your rides you may grab some decent hits, thing is interceptors would have dumped more shots out between turns 1-2, with shunt they can even get side angles on units to ID a herald if your lucky. BTW this is just against foot horde. Against enemy armor I'd say the interceptors get my vote every time because they are helping dreads apply damage 1st turn.
I think purifiers are decent at keeping midfield however. I just think interceptors are more tactile for applying pressure.
5 interceptors with one psycannon is 140 points. To get two psycannons you need to spend 280 points. For purifiers it is only 180 for two psycannons and that's including the rhino. That's a 100 point difference.
Sure interceptors can be anywhere but they also die to bolsters and las guns because there is no Rhino protecting them. It's a little odd you would leave out the negatives with using them.
If you're going purifiers, you'll want to ally in the power field(s).
Turn one have the Rhino's casting Sanctuary for the 3+ invul.
You could run
Coteaz
3x5 purifiers with 2x psycannons in rhinos
6x henchmen (psyker +2 alcolytes) in razorback heavy bolters and psybolts
3x Psi-Rifle dreads
Allied
Dark Angel Librarian w/power field
DA Techmarine w/power field
5 scouts
1688 points.
24 warp charges.
I'm still worried about durability. A fist full of AV11 rhino chassis, and 15 guys in power armor, and 18 guys in toilet paper doesn't take a punch well. To me, the power fields are a must, and as soon as they get re-FAQ's to not work inside transports, the purifier and henchmen list gets too shotup.
Sure the interceptors can die to bolter and lasgun fire, but they also can launch and effective assault and bring S8 or S10 hammers in.
jy2 wrote: Plus skyfire Tau can now only snapshot at ground units, which is why I recommend stormravens in a GK list nowadays).
The Velocity Tracker war gear allows the controlling player to choose whether the model has skyfire or not when firing its weapon. Tau haven't been affected in that regards. Their biggest loss is losing the versatility of the buffmander jumping into a riptide unit. More minor nerfs were losing battle brother status with Eldar as the farseer could buff tau units. Getting two scoring jet bike squads is still very useful but you are stuck with purchasing a HQ that won't have synergy with the rest of your list. Losing smash means that riptides won't be wrecking walkers or raiders. Losing automatic jink on skyrays is likely washed by them not being as explodeable.
Yes I know what the best case scenario for a minimum result nova is. My point was your not doing jack until turn 2 really. If you move 12 your still 12 out from their deployment, so turn 1 is a bust and your just snap firing those canons but more likely moving flat out meaning no smoke. Turn 2 assuming they are idiots and haven't seen it coming and haven't killed your rides you may grab some decent hits, thing is interceptors would have dumped more shots out between turns 1-2, with shunt they can even get side angles on units to ID a herald if your lucky. BTW this is just against foot horde. Against enemy armor I'd say the interceptors get my vote every time because they are helping dreads apply damage 1st turn.
I think purifiers are decent at keeping midfield however. I just think interceptors are more tactile for applying pressure.
As mentioned earlier; give 'em scout from grand strategy and move the 12" up before the game starts.
3000
4000 
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
presumably accompanied by the sound of a wooden ruler being pinged on the edge of a table.