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Looted wagon datasheets guise, but since everyone just steals them from online, we are putting them in white dwarf now! Nobody will be able to figure out this scanner technology!

Seriously, EA and other bad game companies cram day one dlc down our throats now a days, claming that it allows them to make better products and work on it after the info is shipped off to be burnt to a disc, but everyone knows its just a pathetic cash grab. Now I am probably out of the loop on this, but couldn't this have EASILY been included in the actual book, instead of paying 45 dollars for the codex, then 4 dollars for 3 or 4 more options elsewhere? Also new mek and painboys confirmed.

Considering the cost of Warhammer in general as a hobby, didnt think 4 bucks would be that much of a big deal

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Considering the cost of Warhammer in general as a hobby, didnt think 4 bucks would be that much of a big deal

4 dollar starbucks drinks aren't a big deal. 300 of them a year is. Nickel and diming you for something you should be getting with your purchase is something people before our generations would have never put up with. its an insult. Nickel and dime extra charges that you don't notice now a days are why people cant afford homes anymore. Look at what we pay for now that we dident used to.

TV. TV was with rabbit ears, and commercials paid the studios what they needed to produce and broadcast. Now we pay a company for the privelige of watching already paid for content.
Computers. They weren't commonplace where everyone had one, sometimes 2 or 3 as today. Constant upgrades and fixing.
Phones. The bills were a fraction of what they are now inflated for today, even with paying for long distance. Also planned obsolescence of things like the Iphone, where you simply HAVE to have a new one every 2 years.
Cars engineered to last 10 years or less, when they used to make them so well many classics are still driven today.

Nickel and diming like this has been for the last 25 years THE biggest profit for effort endeavors society has come up with yet.

Don't accept low quality products because something else you can buy later comes along and fixes that.

Incidentally, this doesn't bother me too much as I never used looted wagons to begin with. I felt they were too fragile for what little they did on the table. But, I do get the annoyance here. It should be in the Codex to begin with, not a datasheet in the magazine. It's like what they did with the Dakka Jet (Though in their defense, the jet came out after the dex if I'm not mistaken). Though I gues as i think about it, I am a tiny bit annoyed, since I might actually run wagons if they turn out to be good this edition...but I won't know without the magazine (or until scans hit)

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Considering the cost of Warhammer in general as a hobby, didnt think 4 bucks would be that much of a big deal

It's not whether you can buy something or not. It's about your responsibility as a mature customer. If you buy this just because you can afford it, all companies everywhere will start to milk you for cash wherever they can, to the point that the paper wrapper around your hamburger will cost you extra. If you do not buy into these DLC-style transactions and do not support other dickish moves like dataslates and the like, companies will stop trying it. It's up to you to decide, if you still want decent products, fair cost-to-product ratios and ocasional free stuff or if you want to give companies your hard-earned cash just because you can. Mind you, it's not about not being able to afford something. It's about how you want your financial environment to be.

Regarding opening post: Yup. Scanners, copy maschines, typewriters, paper & pencil have all been lost to the dark age of technology. Praise the omnissiah (GW), holding the only available means of data storage. I give it half a day until first scans appear on 4chan or something.

Edit: I'd buy the thing in sumeran cuneiform script on real clay tablets though.

 Kosake wrote:


Regarding opening post: Yup. Scanners, copy maschines, typewriters, paper & pencil have all been lost to the dark age of technology. Praise the omnissiah (GW), holding the only available means of data storage. I give it half a day until first scans appear on 4chan or something.

My bet's in for a bit before official release.

Well, I used to use looted vehicles a good bit in 2nd and 3rd edition, and I've got a few of them at home. So it's nice to have rules.

I think they skipped on putting them in the codex because they don't want rules for stuff they don't make a model for (except that looted vehicles are literally any GW vehicle model customized for Orks), but there was such an outcry on the Internet that they had to make rules and put them back out there, though by that time the codex was already ready for printing (or shipping), leaving them to stuff the rules into White Dwarf, where they could tell players, "See, here's what you were wanting!" while also making money off of it.

They could have just as easily left them out entirely. Looted Wagons don't have a kit from GW, while other companies make them. They could have easily gone the way of the Spore pod.

And puttin in the 1-2 pages of looted wagon into the codex would likely mean 1-2 pages less of fluff.

This ain't a fair complaint, brother. I just love groaning about GW usually, but I really feel the need to call ya out.

For one thing, $4 for a magazine that contains some supplemental rules is not a bad deal- that's what the old White Dwarf was kinda like. White Dwarf should be a place to put supplemental rules that you don't necessarily need to use in the full codex. Barely anybody uses Looted Wagons (ED: Okay, some people do.), and if you do you just buy the White Dwarf. I don't have any issue with that- I mean, my issue with GW is stuff that takes hundreds or thousands of well-earned dollars and game enjoyment from the masses, not four dollars once. Skip your morning coffee one day and buy the White Dwarf if you really care about looted wagons. Easy peasy.

I agree if GW started arbitrarily trying to shove White Dwarf down our throats it would be bad but this is a one-time thing, and I see no indication that it will last or turn into anything bad.

Did we really need another thread just to complain about this?

It's covered here already:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/585556.page

 Mysterious Pants wrote:
This ain't a fair complaint, brother. I just love groaning about GW usually, but I really feel the need to call ya out.
[b]
Barely anybody uses Looted Wagons,

I use them all the time. I only ever play against Power Armor based armies, so a medium range Pie Plate with AP 3 and instant deff to Space Marine ain't bad.

The issue with WD released rules I'd imagine is getting ahold of them after the next iteration of WD comes out. I've never bought a WD mag, nor needed rules released within them, but this is a potential issue.

That, and no one wants yet another thing to lug around to games.

 Overlord Thraka wrote:

 Mysterious Pants wrote:
This ain't a fair complaint, brother. I just love groaning about GW usually, but I really feel the need to call ya out.
[b]
Barely anybody uses Looted Wagons,

I use them all the time. I only ever play against Power Armor based armies, so a medium range Pie Plate with AP 3 and instant deff to Space Marine ain't bad.

It no longer has the boom gun, but rather gets the killkannon instead. As a trade-off it gets to keep its transport capacity.

Looted wagon pretty much equals looted rhino now, and with the massive point-drop, they actually might make sense to field as transports, especially considering how the new "Don't press dat!" no longer prevents you from disembarking.

In any case, sticking that one page in your codex (assuming it's not in it anyways) hardly is a reason for the amount of whining going on in these forums. A whole lot of you should get their ork licenses revoked.

Okay, now at least I know what the "White Dwarf Exclusive" on the pic was about.

As someone who uses Looted Wagons--used a pair in my last game--I'm actually okay with the idea that the dataslate is in the WD. I've picked up the last three WD's since the content was all Ork, so I don't see a problem with pick up a fourth with rules in it.

And I like WD's with rules in it to be honest. I remember finding an old WD with the Feral Orks codex rules. It was out of date by that point (5th edition had come out), but I still loved the issue for the fluff and the kind of odd rules that I tried to talk my friends into letting me use as a homebrew.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
They could have just as easily left them out entirely. Looted Wagons don't have a kit from GW, while other companies make them. They could have easily gone the way of the Spore pod.

And puttin in the 1-2 pages of looted wagon into the codex would likely mean 1-2 pages less of fluff.

What other companies make looted wagons? I've not seen any yet.

All of them

Orks can loot anything

As I allready posted in the other one:

[img]

My looted wagon IS a looted Rhino, with a big Kannon on top!

And hey, at least it is printed somewhere now. If I cant find the WD I'm sure my FLGS manager will let me photocopy his issue, no problem.

I'd like to see the math hammer on the boom gun to kill cannon swap.

What mathhammer? -1 to strength and -12" to range doesn't really need to be mathhammerd.

The killkannon has always been a bad weapon due to low range, ordnance and mediocre strength. I think 30 points is still too much for that.
The best use for the new looted wagon is probably equipping it with rolla and a skorcha and maybe two big shootas to snap-shot while going full speed ahead. They are pretty much cheap battlewagons, who can either be fielded in small games, or be used in addition to their big cousins.

Datasheets in WD; giving people a reason to actually buy WD.

im more pissed off they keep releasing tidbits of the new ork codex instead of actually giving us the damn dex.

Having the models around in WD editions isnt really that bad, though it is annoying. I have a photocopy of the pages on the dakkajet in my codex so i have the rules but not the WD itself. Much less hassle. Occasionally i get that one guy that goes "Thats a copy not a legitimate paper" but nothing says i cant bring a simplified version of my own content i paid for for my own use.

I'm just amused their editor is so bad as to miss the fact they reprinted 1 Gorkanaut in the box.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
I'm just amused their editor is so bad as to miss the fact they reprinted 1 Gorkanaut in the box.

It's a good thing. Buy one looted wagon for 37 points, but instead you get a Gorkanaut. Mistake or brutally cunning?

 Savageconvoy wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
I'm just amused their editor is so bad as to miss the fact they reprinted 1 Gorkanaut in the box.

It's a good thing. Buy one looted wagon for 37 points, but instead you get a Gorkanaut. Mistake or brutally cunning?

Only an Ork could start tweaking around a rhino wreck he found and end up creating a Gorkanaut by mistake.

Due to our new rules of 7th edition we do not have to wait for a whole codex to be released, a small datasheet can be published any way GW sees fit and the models can be put to use instantly!

Now there is no excuse not to buy that model, you have rulez!

They are trying to help you spend your money and you look at their means of getting it to you as a further cash grab?

I must also point out this handily avoids the problem of publishing in a codex models they have not made which runs into legal problems when other companies make the models... now they can produce rules for the models as they are released and re-publish as the codex trails along.

I have to admit it is a smarter workaround on their part.
I doubt they would do this but it would also be a great means of trying out rules for a model before release of the "official" codex to avoid bad points/stats making the model unbalanced.

I am still surprised by my optimism, where is that flow chart again on GW rage...

 Mysterious Pants wrote:
This ain't a fair complaint, brother. I just love groaning about GW usually, but I really feel the need to call ya out.

For one thing, $4 for a magazine that contains some supplemental rules is not a bad deal- that's what the old White Dwarf was kinda like. White Dwarf should be a place to put supplemental rules that you don't necessarily need to use in the full codex. Barely anybody uses Looted Wagons (ED: Okay, some people do.), and if you do you just buy the White Dwarf. I don't have any issue with that- I mean, my issue with GW is stuff that takes hundreds or thousands of well-earned dollars and game enjoyment from the masses, not four dollars once. Skip your morning coffee one day and buy the White Dwarf if you really care about looted wagons. Easy peasy.

I agree if GW started arbitrarily trying to shove White Dwarf down our throats it would be bad but this is a one-time thing, and I see no indication that it will last or turn into anything bad.

A few points:

1. I use Looted Wagons when I can because I loved converting them. And I can't use them as the basic model they're meant to be in some cases (i.e. looted Leman Russ or Basilisk) because Orks and all Imperium (even IG, which makes no sense) are "Come the Apocalypse."
2. Back when White Dwarf had extra stuff, it was well after a codex had been out a while. They also included full army lists, and plenty of other useful articles, in a nice sized magazine for $4-$5 a month. The new version is $4 for a very small size that's rushed and has too many errors passing through, and is so cheap to produce that they can literally throw away dozens of copies per GW store each week and it's not a loss for them (as opposed to selling back issues). So we're being charged as much for a tiny weekly magazine as what a packed monthly magazine cost with less stuff in it. Yeah, please don't compare the two.
3. If someone misses getting WD this week because, for example, they're away on drill (I know a guy who has that problem at times), they can't get the WD from their local GW store after that, because of the policy of clearing them off the shelf and tossing them into a dumpster. That means that these WD exclusives are a bigger problem than prior WDs where you had them on the shelf for a month, and could order back issues.

I do expect them to take the rules and toss it into a $4 digital download, though. Costs them nothing to do that (the miniscule cost of a few minutes of some employee's salary), so it's pure profits. Of course, if they don't bother to make it something other than iBook version, that's useless to a lot of folks. (I was going to try to snag the rules for the Ork flyers, since the book they were in is no longer available, but now they're only available via a product for iPads, and I have a Kindle.)

They really have gone the day one DLC route... my mind is blown. It's bad enough in video games where the DLC is merged into the product, but here where you need to take an extra book for every extra piece of the codex that was cut out to be sold to you piecemeal is ridiculously anti-customer. "Expansions" worked on after the codex, that have sufficient content to warrant the effort would be fine, this is not that.

GG GW, GG.

 n0t_u wrote:
Datasheets in WD; giving people a reason to actually buy WD.

That's exactly the problem. If that's the only reason you are buying that white dwarf, because you don't think the rest of it is enough value to justify the 4 dollar price tag (which I definatley don't, since its garbage compared to its glory days) then your codex has now essentially become 49.50+4.00+whatever else they omitted for sales later even if its already set in stone at the office. Its no different than day one DLC video game companies cheat you with when it could have been on the damn disc when you got it. We aren't talking about content thought of years later, this is a blatant cash grab.

 Orock wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:
Datasheets in WD; giving people a reason to actually buy WD.

That's exactly the problem. If that's the only reason you are buying that white dwarf, because you don't think the rest of it is enough value to justify the 4 dollar price tag (which I definatley don't, since its garbage compared to its glory days) then your codex has now essentially become 49.50+4.00+whatever else they omitted for sales later even if its already set in stone at the office. Its no different than day one DLC video game companies cheat you with when it could have been on the damn disc when you got it. We aren't talking about content thought of years later, this is a blatant cash grab.

So don't buy it. Wait a couple of days, it'll be all over the net.