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Boyz are still very viable in Battle Wagons. They need to be at full squads of 20 though otherwise they just fizzle out and die to quick. They need to have to the extra bodies in case they roll a 4,5 or 6 on the Mob rule or else they are boned. 3x 20 squads are potent and will take a while to chew threw once behind enemy lines. If your running some bikes as well you can charge them in with the 20 unit and use the biker nob to challenge things. He will be better vs naked Sgt's or Power fists.

Has anyone tried actually fielding the "Council of Waaagh!" formation from the Ghazzy supplement? I find the sheer, shameless excess of the whole thing to be immensely appealing- I'd love to hear some actionable intel from the front.

 Madcat87 wrote:

Then I started thinking why not make all my troops grots, they'll just sit at the back capturing objectives where there isn't much conflict and I'll have a lot more points to spend on everything else.

I had a similar thought earlier today. If my compulsary troop choices are grots, it leaves me points to field Tankbusters instead of regular boyz.

 DaisyWondercow wrote:
Has anyone tried actually fielding the "Council of Waaagh!" formation from the Ghazzy supplement? I find the sheer, shameless excess of the whole thing to be immensely appealing- I'd love to hear some actionable intel from the front.

Besides my bikermob, I'm working on a Waaagh! council transported in an ork battlefortress. It'll be interesting, just have to build the damn vehicle first

I echo the sentiments that it seems like boyz are mostly pointless this edition. I will probably take trukks of tankbustas instead of boyz.

 Sinji wrote:
Boyz are still very viable in Battle Wagons. They need to be at full squads of 20 though otherwise they just fizzle out and die to quick. They need to have to the extra bodies in case they roll a 4,5 or 6 on the Mob rule or else they are boned. 3x 20 squads are potent and will take a while to chew threw once behind enemy lines. If your running some bikes as well you can charge them in with the 20 unit and use the biker nob to challenge things. He will be better vs naked Sgt's or Power fists.

The problem I have with that is I would much rather spend my Heavy Support slots on Mek Guns & Lootas otherwise my army is left fighting without long ranged support.

On the subject of Mek Guns, I love my Traktor kannons.
Last game I played with traktor kannons they didn't kill a single thing the entire game, yet they more than paid for themselves as it pretty much set up a no fly zone over 2/3 of the board.

 More Dakka wrote:
Anyone else getting the feeling that normal Boyz aren't worth it in a list other than Green Tide?

For an Ork Warband detachment that doesn't get obsec 3 units of 10 grots is plenty to scrabble around getting objectives, meanwhile all the other slots are full of great units (tank bustaz, Manz, bikes, buggies, Kommandoz, Stormboys etc etc).

Normal Boyz couldn't get across the board in 6th and nothing much has changed in that department in 7th, why not just take the best of the best?

6th for me started the death of the Boyz feeling, and 7th made them worse. My one hope was that the new codex would drop their price to keep them competitive, and no. I do agree that the green tide breathes some life into the Boyz, but outside of that formation there are just too many things in the book that runs better, cheaper, faster, or is more survivable then Boyz now.

I mean 70 pts for 2 grots units is a steal.

My boyz are fine, and im only bringing 70 in a 2000pt game. 1 30man blob for a weirdboy unit and 2 20mans, all sluggachoppa sprinting down the lanes.

Theyre fine because theyre not getting shot at. The warbikers, MANz missiles, and blitzabomma is lol. 20 sluggachoppas slam into something its going to get hurt. God forbid my weirdboy in his 30man unit gets the +1 attack spell (5 attacks each on the charge....zomg...2base +1 dual CCW +1 Charge +1 Spell ftw)

My only issue with them is the vulnerability to fear. That irritates me. Slammed into a big bug and failed the fear check, even with 5 attacks each i barely did anything since i needed 5s to hit and to wound. Sad part is, that wasnt even a nasty big bug - was just a Mawloc that scattered right infront of my boyz so i charged it lol.

 DaisyWondercow wrote:
Has anyone tried actually fielding the "Council of Waaagh!" formation from the Ghazzy supplement? I find the sheer, shameless excess of the whole thing to be immensely appealing- I'd love to hear some actionable intel from the front.

I have but not in a normal game. I went with 2 mega armour warbosses, the MKFF and 10 nobz with 3 PKs and 3 BC in a battlewagon.

Had I realized that rampage works in every phase it would have been a lot better.

The until killed: Azreal, 10 terminators, Corbulo, 2 librarians. Mephistan was all that was left.

 Madcat87 wrote:

 Sinji wrote:
Boyz are still very viable in Battle Wagons. They need to be at full squads of 20 though otherwise they just fizzle out and die to quick. They need to have to the extra bodies in case they roll a 4,5 or 6 on the Mob rule or else they are boned. 3x 20 squads are potent and will take a while to chew threw once behind enemy lines. If your running some bikes as well you can charge them in with the 20 unit and use the biker nob to challenge things. He will be better vs naked Sgt's or Power fists.

The problem I have with that is I would much rather spend my Heavy Support slots on Mek Guns & Lootas otherwise my army is left fighting without long ranged support.

On the subject of Mek Guns, I love my Traktor kannons.
Last game I played with traktor kannons they didn't kill a single thing the entire game, yet they more than paid for themselves as it pretty much set up a no fly zone over 2/3 of the board.

Then take a Blitz Brigade. 5 Battle Wagons with Scout and you can keep your HS slots for something else. Or just run Dual CAD. 4 Battle Wagons and 4 Squads of Shoota Boyz in the Battle Wagons and you still have 2 HS slots left to fill and all basic troops covered.

I am quite partial to the Blitz Brigade though. The free scout move is prure gold. The Shoota Boyz inside will always be in range of something and then turn 2 you should be in combat even if your Wagons were popped. I'm findimg my Battle Wagons aren't exploding as often as before and even my Trukk's have been holding together a bit better as well. So of you scout to mid table even if your going second and a Wagon blows up there is 12" you don't need to foot slog. If you jump out of the wrecked wagon 3" you have managed to cover 15" of ground. Any guys that do end up on foot can jump in behind surviving wagons in your turn for some cover or LOS blocking mobile cover. Turn 2-3 has always been where the true magic of the Orks has been in the last 17 years I have played Orks and it hasn't changed in 7th ed even with the new codex.

Eh if I want to have a bw and don't have room in HS then I'll just pay for it with 3 nobs in the elite spot.

That's fine if you also want to run the Nobz. If not then Blitz Brigade is the way to go.

A unit of nobz is at least 54 points wasted, for just 61 points more you can get scout on all your battlewagons and one additional battlewagon for picking up units, capturing objectives or just randomly tank-shocking stuff.

I see little reason for using a nob unit solely to get a fourth battlewagon.

 Jidmah wrote:
A unit of nobz is at least 54 points wasted, for just 61 points more you can get scout on all your battlewagons and one additional battlewagon for picking up units, capturing objectives or just randomly tank-shocking stuff.

I see little reason for using a nob unit solely to get a fourth battlewagon.

Totally agree. If you need to take a battlewagon with your HS filled with them, go with Blitz Brigade. If you want one but got your HS filled with other units, might as well get another CAD. (Unless it's a rare case where you try to run on minimum troops and one HQ)

I dont even see using MANz to get that 4th battlewagon worth it. I find them to be too easily removed when you buy them in numbers worth bringing inside a battlewagon since now theyre a big enough threat to draw big gun attention.

You could, however, buy the BW for the minimal 3 MANz and not put them in it, and instead buy a trukk with whatever unit you just put in that BW and start both units outside of the transports. Now you got 4 BWs and a MANz missile. That trukk and BW cannot flat out that turn since they embarked something, but better than footslogging lol.

Issue here is do you have enough points lol, as 3 MANz is 120pts bare and i like to slap a BP and Killsaws on the character one (15pts more). More expensive than bareboned minimal regular nobz, but at least this unit is a real threat and can kill things wheras the minimal footnobz wont do anything more than draw a couple S8 shots.

I've got a bit of an issue with target saturation and list building. I wanna try and fit a unit of Warbikers into my ork list. Only, the last time I tried them they got ripped apart by an IG Wyvren mortar. Now, I know the Wyvren is meant to gun down light infantry and such, so a wyvren squad should be gunning down units of orks....the thing is, the Warbikers were in a battlewagon force. They were the only things not in transports. That's my big issue with warbikers right now, if I take them and my opponent has anti-infantry weapons that ignore cover, the warbikers will be the only target for those weapons.

The question I want to ask is, if I wanna use warbikers what other units should I have in that same warbiker army? My original plan was a kind of light deathstar with KFF mek and Warboss inside this big warbiker blob, I'm really worried about things like Manticores and Wyvrens which are going to ignore my cover anyways. What other units should I run if I'm going to run warbikers? Should I just try and focus on alpha-striking those enemy guns off the table? Is that even possible with orks?

Anyone tried Trukk overload yet?

CAD 1:
HQ: Warboss w/ stuff (on foot)
HQ: Painboy

Elites: MANZ in trukk

Troops: Trukk boyz
Troops: Trukk boyz

Fast: Warbikers

CAD 2:
HQ: Mek on bike w/ KFF
HQ: Painboy

Elites: MANZ in trukk

Troops: Trukk boyz
Troops: Trukk boyz

Loose outline (probably a lot more Trukk Boyz in the mix), but you get the idea. Basically throw so many trukks at someone, using the Trukk Boyz to shield your MANz trukks and Mek(s), that it's impossible to stop em all?

Contemplating trying it using my old looted wagons as trukks. I think I have 8 total laying around...

How are Manticores going to ignore cover?

Wyverns are unlikely to be taken out by anything an ork army can do in the first turn. Best way to deal with them is to use the large biker base size and some careful positioning to minimise the number of hits and take a painboy to help soak wounds.

Hellhounds will die to Lootas and rokkit spam, with a bit of luck.

Leman Russ Eradicators are pretty much immune to ork shooting until they can get round behind them.

In order to draw first-turn ignore-cover fire from your bikers, you need units which are an early game threat and vulnerable to similar weapons. Kommandos can infiltrate into some ruins or something, then go-to-ground for a 2+ cover save. A minimum-size kommando unit is difficult to kill with anything which doesn't ignore cover, cheap enough that it's not a huge waste when it does get killed and can carry a couple of special weapons which make it just enough of a threat that it can't be ignored.

all the guard AV 12 stuff will die in droves to tank bustas.... even wyveryns

15 pt guys with assault rokkit launchers that have tank hunters will EASILY do 3 hp of damage a turn (5 hits on average, 4+ to glance, 2.5 glances, +1.25 for the reroll, ~3.75 HP a turn)

heck, lobbas will hit their side armour of 10 if they are hidden out of sight

that being said, they are the best anti ork unit in game

Here's a list I worked out last night, so far I think it may be the closest to a tac list I've come up with. Let me know what you guys think, it comes in at 1500pts:

HQ

Bikerboss - da lucky stikk, pk

Painboy - bike

Painboy - bike

Troops

10 grots

10 grots

10 grots

Elites

3 MANz w/ 1 killsaw and bp - trukk

3 MANz w/ 1 killsaw and bp - trukk

3 MANz w/ 1 killsaw and bp - trukk

Fast attack

10 warbikers - nob w/ pk and bp

5 warbikers - nob w/ pk and bp

Heavy support

4 traktor kannons

4 lobbas

Fortification

adl w/ quad-gun

So I'll have one squad of grots manning the quad-gun while the others try to capture objectives in the backfield. Smaller biker squad will have one painboy and will mostly try and capture objectives and assault tanks and weakened squads when needed, while larger biker squad will have the boss and painboy, and try to back up the MANz. .

There's a thread on this, but it was based on SM and I didn't want to derail it:

Does anybody have ideas on taking a wraithknight down with our new ladz? I'm not a huge fan of rokkits (and big guns more-or-less equally so) in this case, since they still need a 4+ to wound after a 5+ (or 4+) to hit. And I think that boys squads with a pk would likely never make it there with the new rules

It's called the Eadwompa

im autotaking 'eadwompa if i know im facing eldar. i dislike tailoring but that thing is nigh impossible for orks to kill unless they actually dedicate part of their army to do it, and even then its not that awesome.

Nothing sounds more thrilling than taking that gayass unit down in 1 swing

It's great because you can just throw it on to a Warboss with PK and get the best of both worlds for a meesily 20 points.

Don't forget to keep a Nob in the unit to give/accept a challenge, that way the WK has to slap at the Nob, eating up 2 wounds or 2 smash attack, then hit em back with the Eadwompa!

Only real issue is that it's Eadwompa OR Lukky Stikk, but you can always just take a 2nd warboss since they are so dirt cheap, or throw it on a Big Mek with KFF and Bike (just give him a squig to re-roll one miss).

WK isnt a character, so no challenge. However he is base S10 for some dumb reason, so splatting nobz by default.

Not only nobz but Warbosses and Biker nobz too. Only one that won't get insta killed by him is a Biker Boss. In saying that I find the Warboss PK to be the most reliable way to kill a WK. He will obviously need back up though. Some boyz to eat wounds and a nob with PK should be enough to take him down a peg a or 2.

So eadwompa missile with 10 boys in a trukk, nob+ pk, and boss wiv da wompa? Sounds really risky, super expensive, and horribly unlikely to work, but when it does....

yeah I think throwing something ridiculous like that together really helps to highlight all of the flaws in each of those strategies individually...

I agree a bikerboss is probably the best bet, and at least he won't just get kited the whole time, but throwing him with bob nikerz seems like a total waste, since the WK will just slap them all silly. Maybe bikerboyz to soak wounds since they're fast enough and cheaper than NBs? still seems like a big waste of points to me though

 Vineheart01 wrote:
WK isnt a character, so no challenge. However he is base S10 for some dumb reason, so splatting nobz by default.

And warbosses that aren't bikebosses.

TompiQ wrote:



Wow, just wow. Or if you get night fighting turn 1 you get 2+ cover without jinking, this list just became my answer to IG, and maybe TAU & Eldar.

1: Take Necron allies led by Imotekh the Stormlord.
2: ...
3: Profit.

 More Dakka wrote:
Anyone else getting the feeling that normal Boyz aren't worth it in a list other than Green Tide?

For an Ork Warband detachment that doesn't get obsec 3 units of 10 grots is plenty to scrabble around getting objectives, meanwhile all the other slots are full of great units (tank bustaz, Manz, bikes, buggies, Kommandoz, Stormboys etc etc).

Normal Boyz couldn't get across the board in 6th and nothing much has changed in that department in 7th, why not just take the best of the best?

The problem with grots is that they're really overpriced for their stats. Conscripts cost the same but are +1s, +1t, +1ini, 5+ armor and carry a lazgun. Also, they're fearless more often than not with 25 pts priests. Grots are bad troops also. At least boyz can kick some faces from time to time and won't die to outflanking scouts.

I think that if you want to take something to grab backfield points - our troops are bad for that role. Just take those big gunz u're gona use anywayz. If you got free FA slot, take a couple of koptas with tl bs to just shoot at something and still be there for obj grabbing with their awesome mobility.

You got to take troops unless you play unbound, so why not just make them worthy? 20 boyz with a nob are still vulnerable on their own but they'll at least help out on the frontline. Orkses are all about overhelming the opponent with too many threats to deal with.

Let's think of stuff that can be used for scoring effectively.