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Well, the K of Korps is basically GW version of a metal umlaut .

And that's why it's badass. Death Korps just sounds badass.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Well, the K of Korps is basically GW version of a metal umlaut .

Yes, yes it is. Also for added German.

Psienesis wrote:And that's why it's badass. Death Korps just sounds badass.

That's the thing, though. Because their name is English, does that mean it should be pronounced like "core" or "corpse"? If the latter, that means their name is phonetically "Death Corpse of Krieg". Make that "Deathcorpse Krieg" and you've got yourself a death/black metal band.

Even in Americanese, we pronounce "Corps" as "core". There's no confusion there, unless you're illiterate.

Or, you know, if English is not your native tongue .

You're telling me it's NOT pronounced 'korpse'?
Everyone I know says 'Death Korpse of Kreeg', (Korpse with a K because it's it's a harsh K rather than a softer C)

 Ashiraya wrote:
You're telling me it's NOT pronounced 'korpse'?
Everyone I know says 'Death Korpse of Kreeg', (Korpse with a K because it's it's a harsh K rather than a softer C)

Well then, that's how I thought to say it it sounds even more badass that way.

But let's all agree on this; the Death Korps (Which I reckon is an EPIC name) models looks absolutely awesome. If I was in England I would buy as many as humanly possible.But, in australia it is hard enough to try and get NORMAL GW products for a decent price. how you other worlders just love to grab those models while I have to deal with inflated prices, enormous shipping prices and everything else

I can agree to as much, their design is great.

 Psienesis wrote:
Even in Americanese, we pronounce "Corps" as "core". There's no confusion there, unless you're illiterate.

Being illiterate and lacking the specific knowledge that corps is not really at all phonetic are not the same, for a start (see Ashiraya's post). The reason I asked was because you responded to the discussion about why it has a K - making it the German word - with:

Psienesis wrote:And that's why it's badass. Death Korps just sounds badass.

So I asked you about this (your specific usage of the K), because I was unsure if you were referring to something similar to this post...

 Truth118 wrote:

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
The only thing I dislike about the Kriegsmen is that they spell "Corps" with a K, "because German". It wouldn't be a problem if the whole name was German, but it isn't.

For a few days I pronounced Korps exactly how its spelled, like it would be in German (pronouncing the p and s), and people gave me looks like I couldn't read so I stopped. Didn't sound as good anyway.

... or if you were referring to the English pronunciation, which is the same as "core". This is ignoring that the correct German pronunciation of the German word, "Korps", is the same (like "core") as "Corps" in English, with the original French pronunciation. However, this is a totally legitimate thing to be wrong about, because it's a foreign (French) pronunciation adopted into another foreign language (German), and it would be easy to assume that the German word was changed to German pronunciation simply because they also changed the spelling.

EDIT: Just to clear that up, it's pronounced "Death Core of Kreeg".

Even though I know its Core, I still call them the Death Corpse, because its obviously supposed to be a pun, and I don't trust the morons who hang out at my GW store to get the joke.

To those saying that Death Korps are badass because their Commissars are there to stop them killing themselves in useless attacks:

The Commissars amongst the assault squads demanded that the men stand firm and push on, summarily executing the first men to take any steps backwards. In return, several Commissars were shot out of hand by their own side as the shredded assault companies scurried back to the safety of their own trenches.

-Imperial Armour 5: Siege of Vraks

Death Korps running away and shooting their own Commissars.

That's a great find.

The Wolf of Fenris was a Space Marine Strike Cruiser of the Space Wolves Chapter that was captured by the Red Corsairs at the Battle of Parenxes, sometime after the Badab War.

Realizing that they needed ships to carry out their raids, Huron Blackheart, Master of the Red Corsairs, ordered an attack on a Space Marine patrol group of the Space Wolves and Flame Hawks Chapters near the world of Parenxes. In a surprise attack near the Parenxes star, Huron's forces crippled the Wolf of Fenris and damaged several other vessels (though all save the Wolf were allowed to escape). Using boarding torpedoes, the Red Corsairs first took control of the engine room so that the Space Wolves could not self-destruct, then a second wave was sent into the cargo bays. The third wave, led by Blackheart himself, entered at a point fifty meters from the command deck. Huron stormed the bridge and tore apart the ship's captain, Gnyrll Bluetooth, with the huge weapon that served as his right arm.

As the Red Corsairs' victory became inevitable, several Space Wolves turned on their fellows and threw themselves at the mercy of Blackheart. They renounced their pledges to their Chapter, Primarch and Emperor, and swore allegiance to Huron. As reward for their allegiance, Huron granted them command of the Wolf of Fenris, which is now part of the Red Corsairs' fleet.

Just because a faction has a reputation for something, does not mean that every member of that faction sticks to it, or are we to believe that all Space Wolves are, at heart, cowards and traitors?

 Psienesis wrote:

The Wolf of Fenris was a Space Marine Strike Cruiser of the Space Wolves Chapter that was captured by the Red Corsairs at the Battle of Parenxes, sometime after the Badab War.

Realizing that they needed ships to carry out their raids, Huron Blackheart, Master of the Red Corsairs, ordered an attack on a Space Marine patrol group of the Space Wolves and Flame Hawks Chapters near the world of Parenxes. In a surprise attack near the Parenxes star, Huron's forces crippled the Wolf of Fenris and damaged several other vessels (though all save the Wolf were allowed to escape). Using boarding torpedoes, the Red Corsairs first took control of the engine room so that the Space Wolves could not self-destruct, then a second wave was sent into the cargo bays. The third wave, led by Blackheart himself, entered at a point fifty meters from the command deck. Huron stormed the bridge and tore apart the ship's captain, Gnyrll Bluetooth, with the huge weapon that served as his right arm.

As the Red Corsairs' victory became inevitable, several Space Wolves turned on their fellows and threw themselves at the mercy of Blackheart. They renounced their pledges to their Chapter, Primarch and Emperor, and swore allegiance to Huron. As reward for their allegiance, Huron granted them command of the Wolf of Fenris, which is now part of the Red Corsairs' fleet.

Just because a faction has a reputation for something, does not mean that every member of that faction sticks to it, or are we to believe that all Space Wolves are, at heart, cowards and traitors?

Considering that all Kriegsmen are clones of eachother, then yes, they are all capable of retreating and popping their own Commissars.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
That's a great find.

Thanks, I was just casually reading Siege of Vraks again, found that and thought "YES"

One should also probably expound on the circumstances instead of cherry picking one part of the story, it was a unit that got caught in a heavy artillery barrage in the open before they got anywhere near the opposing lines, and was unable to find its direction and had no ability to reach the enemy.

The entire regiment was then subsequently disbanded for the actions of a few companies, its officers executed, and its survivors sent to penal battalions.

It's also the only instance of such occurring in any DKoK fluff.

Meanwhile we have plenty of instances of SM's turning traitor and losing faith and no longer having the same iron-clad fearlessness they once did.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

Considering that all Kriegsmen are clones of eachother, then yes, they are all capable of retreating and popping their own Commissars.

Please find a quote to support that. You won't find one.

 Vaktathi wrote:
One should also probably expound on the circumstances instead of cherry picking one part of the story, it was a unit that got caught in a heavy artillery barrage in the open before they got anywhere near the opposing lines, and was unable to find its direction and had no ability to reach the enemy.

The entire regiment was then subsequently disbanded for the actions of a few companies, its officers executed, and its survivors sent to penal battalions.

It's also the only instance of such occurring in any DKoK fluff.

Meanwhile we have plenty of instances of SM's turning traitor and losing faith and no longer having the same iron-clad fearlessness they once did.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

Considering that all Kriegsmen are clones of eachother, then yes, they are all capable of retreating and popping their own Commissars.

Please find a quote to support that. You won't find one.

Still doesn't defeat the fact that they killed their own Commissars despite previous fanboys claiming that they know no retreat and such.
It also shows a massive inconsistency in the Kriegsmen's morale, previously in Siege of Vraks during the first wave they just marched forward into the enemy guns '5 yards apart' and were scythed down, whereas here, further into the war they're running away. Not exactly great siege troops.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

Still doesn't defeat the fact that they killed their own Commissars despite previous fanboys claiming that they know no retreat and such.

They largely don't. Such was rare enough that they disbanded the entire regiment and killed all the officers for it. Not impossible, just extremely rare, and served to show just how incredibly fearsome the defenses of Vraks really were.

It also shows a massive inconsistency in the Kriegsmen's morale, previously in Siege of Vraks during the first wave they just marched forward into the enemy guns '5 yards apart' and were scythed down, whereas here, further into the war they're running away. Not exactly great siege troops.

If you look at the entire passage, it's not just that they're getting scythed down, so much as that they're literally in a killing box, and are getting hit so far out they don't even know what direction they're going anymore or where the enemy is. It's also IIRC before they breach the first defense line of the Citadel.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

Still doesn't defeat the fact that they killed their own Commissars despite previous fanboys claiming that they know no retreat and such.

They largely don't. Such was rare enough that they disbanded the entire regiment and killed all the officers for it. Not impossible, just extremely rare, and served to show just how incredibly fearsome the defenses of Vraks really were.

It also shows a massive inconsistency in the Kriegsmen's morale, previously in Siege of Vraks during the first wave they just marched forward into the enemy guns '5 yards apart' and were scythed down, whereas here, further into the war they're running away. Not exactly great siege troops.

If you look at the entire passage, it's not just that they're getting scythed down, so much as that they're literally in a killing box, and are getting hit so far out they don't even know what direction they're going anymore or where the enemy is. It's also IIRC before they breach the first defense line of the Citadel.

The retreat of the 158th was the 1st assault on sector 50-45, after the assault on the second line of defence.

And, the Grenadiers in the assault on the orbital laser defence silo didn't retreat despite being whupped by renegade forces and being in a similar 'killing box' situation.

Was it the second line? I don't have the book on me, I admit I could be wrong there. I'll have to check on the Grenadier story when I get home, I thought they'd reached the enemy lines when they got dropped on.

Either way, out of 14 million dead Krieg guardsmen and 18 years of siege, it was the only described incident of such, which puts its far beyond any historical human army.

Hell, on both an absolute man-for-man basis and proportional basis, makes the DKoK more reliable than the Astartes, where half the original ones went traitor, and at least 50 full chapers plus innumerable companies/squads/individuals have since lost their faith and turned against the Imperium

 Vaktathi wrote:
Hell, on both an absolute man-for-man basis and proportional basis, makes the DKoK more reliable than the Astartes, where half the original ones went traitor, and at least 50 full chapers plus innumerable companies/squads/individuals have since lost their faith and turned against the Imperium

Yeah, but Astartes will turn to chaos at the slightest of provocation anyway. So, not really something to gloat upon. I am pretty sure even penal legions are less likely to turn traitor .

You say that it's the only recorded instance, but then you just have to look at the fact that Space Marines have been recorded thousands of times more than the Death Korps of Krieg, and are recorded to have been in hundreds more engagements.

Then you have to think that there is a faction called Chaos Space Marines, of course there will be more recorded instances of Space Marines turning Chaos or it would be considered that C:CSM is pointless.

There is no Codex: Chaos Death Korps of Krieg or I'm sure they'd be written to have a lot more insubordination and Slaanesh worship as they do now.

Those Kriegsman that did not fall back were killed or captured

More Kriegsmen running away in Siege of Vraks volume 2, and I can think of 2 more instances in volume 1.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

There is no Codex: Chaos Death Korps of Krieg.

You're kind of breaking your own point, here.

The Wolf of Fenris

What an amazing name. Everyone knows it already, but they really are seriously overboard with the whole wolf thing. I'm surprised it was called a Strike Cruiser and not a Void Fang or whatever.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

There is no Codex: Chaos Death Korps of Krieg.

You're kind of breaking your own point, here.

The Wolf of Fenris

What an amazing name. Everyone knows it already, but they really are seriously overboard with the whole wolf thing. I'm surprised it was called a Strike Cruiser and not a Void Fang or whatever.

My point is that if there was a faction created that necessitated the Death Korps turning to Chaos then a lot more Death Korps would turn to Chaos in the fluff. I am not defeating my own point.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
You say that it's the only recorded instance, but then you just have to look at the fact that Space Marines have been recorded thousands of times more than the Death Korps of Krieg, and are recorded to have been in hundreds more engagements.

Then you have to think that there is a faction called Chaos Space Marines, of course there will be more recorded instances of Space Marines turning Chaos or it would be considered that C:CSM is pointless.

There is no Codex: Chaos Death Korps of Krieg

Isn't that...IA 5...and IA 6...and IA 7...and IA 12...and

Going back earlier there was also the 2003 Chapter Approved that initially introduced them.

More Kriegsmen running away in Siege of Vraks volume 2, and I can think of 2 more instances in volume 1.

Where? I'm gonna go find my books, I can't think of anything where they outright break. Retreat yes, but that's not the same thing.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
Then you have to think that there is a faction called Chaos Space Marines, of course there will be more recorded instances of Space Marines turning Chaos or it would be considered that C:CSM is pointless.

There is no Codex: Chaos Death Korps of Krieg or I'm sure they'd be written to have a lot more insubordination and Slaanesh worship as they do now.

IOW, "if GW wanted the fluff to be different it would be different". What does that have to do with the actual fluff that GW has published?

The Death Korps aren't clones. Otherwise they wouldn't have to weed so many out via those crazy harsh training practices in the first place. You'll find some bad apples here and there. The simple fact is the fluff explicitly states that they don't break. Therefore, one can assume that when an example comes up where they DO break, it must be a rare case. Otherwise the fluff wouldn't state that they don't break.

The same applies to Space Marines. (all of it, really)

What you DON'T have is a statement explicitly stating which, man for man, breaks/turns/runs away more often than the other. Which makes this whole pissing contest of whether or not Kriegs break more than Space Marines to be rather stupid, IMHO (something that several people are already trying to subtley point out here).

The only thing you can really say for sure in regards to that sort of thing is that Battle Sisters and Grey Knights beat everyone in that regard. Beyond that, you're going to have to find something more explicit in terms of SCOPE than a few isolated examples.

 Vaktathi wrote:

It's also the only instance of such occurring in any DKoK fluff.

Meanwhile we have plenty of instances of SM's turning traitor and losing faith and no longer having the same iron-clad fearlessness they once did.

Why bring this up though? He did not mention nor imply anything about the Space Marines in his post, so you even bringing this up just implies you have a personal vendetta against Space Marines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

TiamatRoar wrote:

What you DON'T have is a statement explicitly stating which, man for man, breaks/turns/runs away more often than the other. Which makes this whole pissing contest of whether or not Kriegs break more than Space Marines to be rather stupid, IMHO (something that several people are already trying to subtley point out here).

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
One should also probably expound on the circumstances instead of cherry picking one part of the story, it was a unit that got caught in a heavy artillery barrage in the open before they got anywhere near the opposing lines, and was unable to find its direction and had no ability to reach the enemy.

The entire regiment was then subsequently disbanded for the actions of a few companies, its officers executed, and its survivors sent to penal battalions.

It's also the only instance of such occurring in any DKoK fluff.

Meanwhile we have plenty of instances of SM's turning traitor and losing faith and no longer having the same iron-clad fearlessness they once did.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

Considering that all Kriegsmen are clones of eachother, then yes, they are all capable of retreating and popping their own Commissars.

Please find a quote to support that. You won't find one.

Still doesn't defeat the fact that they killed their own Commissars despite previous fanboys claiming that they know no retreat and such.
It also shows a massive inconsistency in the Kriegsmen's morale, previously in Siege of Vraks during the first wave they just marched forward into the enemy guns '5 yards apart' and were scythed down, whereas here, further into the war they're running away. Not exactly great siege troops.

And the Space Wolves aboard the Wolf of Fenris threw themselves at Huron's feet, turned on their brothers, and cried like little bishes to renounce the Emperor and join with Chaos.

Since Space Wolves all share the same Geneseed and the Canis Helix, then they're effectively clones of one another, and thus will all cry like bishes to renounce the Emperor to side with Chaos when faced with the choice.

/eyeroll

 Psienesis wrote:

And the Space Wolves aboard the Wolf of Fenris threw themselves at Huron's feet, turned on their brothers, and cried like little bishes to renounce the Emperor and join with Chaos.

Since Space Wolves all share the same Geneseed and the Canis Helix, then they're effectively clones of one another, and thus will all cry like bishes to renounce the Emperor to side with Chaos when faced with the choice.

/eyeroll

What's your point, that Space Wolves can be cowards?

I agree.

So can Krieg guardsmen, apparently.

How did Space Wolves even get into this conversation?

Anyway, about those demonstrably cowardly DKoK. Guess they're obviously leadership 7 for a reason.