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 Mymearan wrote:
So is anyone here rethinking their purchase after the GW announcement? Or are you guys simply not interested/can't be arsed to wait and see what GW has to offer way down the line in 2019? Or maybe you'll buy both?

The lack of vehicles put me out on the preorder train. GW kits will probably be crazy expensive. I already got my Raging Heroes sisters built and will just 3d print some rhinos to modify into exorcists and immolators.

This has been real quiet lately. What happened to at least showing us a gakload of renders for our pre-orders?

Is there an echo-chamber elsewhere where SW deals more actively with their customers? Comments section of the last KS? Facebook?

I'd imagine GW's statement about putting out SOB plastics sometime next year might make them pause to reconsider investing in the moulds and re-evaluate the potential long term demand. That's just a guess though.

It certainly has the potential to affect the long-term demand, but it could be positive or negative. In that more people will be interested in playing a supported version of SoB, so the pool of potential customer-players gets bigger.

Essentially, fewer sales to individuals, but more people buying them overall. It's going to be impossible to quantify, obviously. But then again, places like Anvil built their businesses selling not-marines. Vic Minis and oh.. that bloke in America... can't remember the name... built theirs selling not-guardsmen - and Anvil has joined them in a big way.

Raging Heroes started with not-dark elves, and branched out into Not-Guardswomen and more not-dark elves and not-sisters. Avatars or War's entire business - and indeed - Shieldwolf themselves started off selling not-WHFB models.

So yeah. Properly officially supported Sisters of Battle might be the best thing that ever happened to Shieldwolf. Especially if they get their models out early and make a windfall off the anticipation of players.

 Azazelx wrote:


Raging Heroes started with not-dark elves, and branched out into Not-Guardswomen and more not-dark elves and not-sisters. Avatars or War's entire business - and indeed - Shieldwolf themselves started off selling not-WHFB models.

So yeah. Properly officially supported Sisters of Battle might be the best thing that ever happened to Shieldwolf. Especially if they get their models out early and make a windfall off the anticipation of players.

The difference is that Raging Heroes’ hugely successful not-sisters Kickstarter was done at a time when it looked liked GW was never going to give further support to the SoB. The question is, how many people who might have been interested are now going to wait and see what GW does before committing to actually buying anything (exactly as GW plans with their uncharacteristicly early announcement).

The way I see it is that there are broadly three subgroups of potential SOB customers:

1) those who would prefer to buy Shieldwolf's not-SOB
2) those who would buy Shieldwolf's not-SOB only if there is no alternative
3) those who would never buy Shieldwolf's not SOB

GW coming out and saying that official SOB plastics are eventually for sure returning won't affect categories 1 and 3... but will discourage those in 2. YMMV.

To be honest, I think they would have more success fleshing out their Norse line of miniatures, by perhaps adding a modular set of men to go along with the women they have already made. There aren't so many miniature companies that have plastic fantasy Norse miniatures that look as good or have as good a quality as their product. Even GW Marauders are horribly proportioned.

But I don't really know the market that's out there for such things. I do think SoB might be a bit of a risk, now that GW seems to be determined to put them back out.

 warboss wrote:
The way I see it is that there are broadly three subgroups of potential SOB customers:

1) those who would prefer to buy Shieldwolf's not-SOB
2) those who would buy Shieldwolf's not-SOB only if there is no alternative
3) those who would never buy Shieldwolf's not SOB

GW coming out and saying that official SOB plastics are eventually for sure returning won't affect categories 1 and 3... but will discourage those in 2. YMMV.

I think that describes the situation after GW releases SoB. Shieldwolf May have a problem in the short term if a large number of potential customers decide not to buy anything until after they’ve seen what GW comes up with.

 Azazelx wrote:
This has been real quiet lately. What happened to at least showing us a gakload of renders for our pre-orders?

Is there an echo-chamber elsewhere where SW deals more actively with their customers? Comments section of the last KS? Facebook?

Hasnt it, i keep checking in regularly here and KS, KS is just as quiet i also just checked their FB and thats the same, nothing since their office/workshop got flooded on the 26th March which im sure has put them on the back foot a bit!

Like a few others have pointed out theres a massive risk now for Shieldwolf to be out of tens of thousands of Euros for sometime to come if they finance the molds themselves, before GW's announcement there was a good chance it wont take too long to make the money back, now GW, Raging Heroes, Wargames exclusive and Heresy have all announced or released their not SOB's, ive mentioned it to a few mates/previous backers when Shieldwolf 1st announced the pre-order that they would be better running it as a KS, as there will be less financial risk if GW or anyone else announce/release not SOB's, that way if they get stuck with molds that are not producing much it wont be a burden that could possibly sink them, the KS would have been a win/win, backers get what they want the non SOB's and Shieldwolf get what they want the molds burden free no matter what any other company does.

Another problem IM seeing, thats not to say its not happening as im not everywhere on the internet is where is all the promotion for Shieldwolf's not SOB'S that Angelos spoke about, one of his comments about the failed KS was they didnt get enough people to see the KS and they was going to change that for the pre-order, if the only people that know about the pre-order is us backers of their last KS which is around 336(231 on the goblin,565 on 'Maidens,190 1st KS), this forum and their FB page they are going to struggle as its mainly the same group of people that post here and on their FB that backed the KS, many have already said they will pass as the KS pricing was lots better and you got to follow all the production along and feel like you was part of it.

Im sure its certainly a stressful time for the Shieldwolf guys right now!

Looking at recent GW releases and specificly what GW can currently do with plastic (I.e Idoneth AoS preview / release) I have high expectations of what GW will deliver with SoB's. I don't believe Shieldwolf can do better... .

GW said that they will regular post updates about the development of SoB, so I expect that we will see 3D renders eventually. Maybe with Warhammer Fest?

It also possible that GW SoB's will be released before Shieldwolf sisters are available.

The behaviour of this "new" GW is troublesome for companies that try to make "not" GW miniatures.

Tonhel wrote:
Looking at recent GW releases and specificly what GW can currently do with plastic (I.e Idoneth AoS preview / release) I have high expectations of what GW will deliver with SoB's. I don't believe Shieldwolf can do better... .

What to expect from GW: shiny monopose minis of 5 with no variation or options and conversions only possibly with a lot of green stuff
What Shieldwolf can do better: multipart poseable minis, easy to convert

 kodos wrote:

Tonhel wrote:
Looking at recent GW releases and specificly what GW can currently do with plastic (I.e Idoneth AoS preview / release) I have high expectations of what GW will deliver with SoB's. I don't believe Shieldwolf can do better... .

What to expect from GW: shiny monopose minis of 5 with no variation or options and conversions only possibly with a lot of green stuff
What Shieldwolf can do better: multipart poseable minis, easy to convert

Well let's agree to disagree.

I backed the War is Coming: Shieldmaiden reboot. The plastics are fine as you expect when cast by Renedra, but they certainly aren't as versatile or have the same amount of options as i.e Perry WotR of Late HYW range. Which are also casted by Renedra. Infact.. the shieldmaiden are quite static and don't really have so many options on the sprue as I hoped.

GW mini's are much more dynamic and most new kits have still more options than i.e the Shieldmaiden plastic set.

 warboss wrote:
The way I see it is that there are broadly three subgroups of potential SOB customers:

1) those who would prefer to buy Shieldwolf's not-SOB
2) those who would buy Shieldwolf's not-SOB only if there is no alternative
3) those who would never buy Shieldwolf's not SOB

GW coming out and saying that official SOB plastics are eventually for sure returning won't affect categories 1 and 3... but will discourage those in 2. YMMV.

You forgot those who would buy both SW's not-SOB as well as GW's are-SOB. Also not affected, but potentially becoming a larger pool of people as they find that SW's not-SOB are a thing that exists. When they become a thing that exists.

 Azazelx wrote:
When they become a thing that exists.

If.

Shieldwolf might just say “oh we’re not making as much money as we would like with pre orders so we’ll just cancel.”

Personally I’m going with another company that is proven reliable and high quality.

We've been a little absent here although I have been dropping by occassionaly to check a bit. I intended to address each one after reading carefully but I'll scurry up after @Nostromodamus comment to avoid speculation risking to damage the new releases, since I think things are derailing a bit here. For those following the developments we had a nasty flood in our HQ and it has tilted our workflow, that's why I haven't responded here to anyone. Given we had to supply customers (i.e. companies) in the UK and the USA and one of our pumps was out of function, not to mention regular customers and retailers, we had to sidetrack a bit. That's also the reason the webstore was on and off at times. That said, everything is still within our timetables so professional service should be guaranteed once again.

@Nostromodamus
That was never an option, Shieldwolf Miniatures has always delivered what it took money for.

@Azazelx @Tonhel @kodos @Original Timmy
We won't comment on another colleague's product (besides, even if we wanted to we've seen nothing to actually comment on!). Everyone's welcome to enter the market, we trust people will support us regardless since not only we find our final result will do us justice but also because we were apparently the first to listen and promise them what hobbyists were asking for. Female sci-fi and fantasy paladins in hard plastic. We promised, therefore we will deliver :-)

 Original Timmy wrote:

Hasnt it, i keep checking in regularly here and KS, KS is just as quiet i also just checked their FB and thats the same, nothing since their office/workshop got flooded on the 26th March which im sure has put them on the back foot a bit!

Damn, I didn't know about that. Hopefully they haven't lost too much but it's definitely the sort of thing that can really cause a lot of issues.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:

@Azazelx @Tonhel @kodos @Original Timmy
We won't comment on another colleague's product (besides, even if we wanted to we've seen nothing to actually comment on!). Everyone's welcome to enter the market, we trust people will support us regardless since not only we find our final result will do us justice but also because we were apparently the first to listen and promise them what hobbyists were asking for. Female sci-fi and fantasy paladins in hard plastic. We promised, therefore we will deliver :-)

You've been busy with supply and recovering from the flood - that's fine. I knew about neither and hope you fully recover as soon as possible. When you do, please flood us with photos, renders, 3d prints, etc so we can see what we're potentially getting when/if we spend our money now on a long-pre-order.

If you can address the not-heavy bolter ammo feed belt that leads nowhere (when you get a chance) that would also be good. Is there a box or sickle mag alternative available? Does the belt feed connect with an ammo-hopper backpack a la GW's Space Marine Devastators (since the 1990's). I'm not trolling you here - the ammo feed belt that leads nowhere and drags along the ground is awful design from someone who doesn't understand how firearms work, and I'd like to know if other options are available for that weapon or if it's just a work-in progress render that can be upgraded to make at least sci-fi suspension-of-belief level sense.

@Azazelx
Thank you :-)
I'll do my best to post a thorough answer next week (which should be our first "back to normality" after the recent incident).

@Shieldwolf, have you a date yet for when pre-orders close?

@Original Timmy
The initial plan was late April but due to the recent hardle we faced in our HQ I think they should remain open now till early May? I think. We will be announcing the closing date officially this week.

Given that it's been 3 1/2 weeks since we've seen any new images (and we've not seen much, really), I think you should be more concerned with showing people what you're going to be making than worrying about closing the pre-order date.

You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.


We're talking about (potentially) quite a few hundred dollars for any individual backer for items deliverable in October (or later) based on not many images or renders and "trust us".
I trust that you'll deliver (possibly in October, possibly a month or four late, but you'll deliver). I trust that your intentions are the best of.
I don't yet trust that I'll like the designs of the models because aesthetics are a personal thing and I don't know what I'll be getting. I'm not spending those hundreds of dollars buying almost-blind when there's plenty of other stuff that I can see competing for my dollars right now.
How to solve that? More clear images. Lots of them. I don't know how I can make this clearer, and I honestly don't understand why they've not been a thing, even preceding the flood.

@Azazelx
Ah, that's an easy one I guess. Mainly it's the fact we are very wary of showing anything that might not make it into the final product (we've been there, lol, we don't intend to have a repeat of that issue). It's also because instead of spending time to make eye-catching "oh shiny!" renders that will make people like what we are creating (these take time which we don't have plenty of), we tend mostly to make sure we deliver as promised, so that's where our main focus is.
Otherwise we can shoot pictures like this below, but we prefer not to. It's not professional looking nor perhaps even necessary (others may have even accepted mere artwork, still costs money when it's quality artwork but, oh well, we try our best!). That said, I comprehend what you are saying and can certainly accept not wanting to risk on something that potentially will not be liked.


To us it's mostly an issue of trust going both ways; Shieldwolf and the community. Shieldwolf took the risk by commiting itself in the largest investment ever made by the company (not to mention never done before by anyone else either). The Community has certainly responded nicely so far and we expect even more before the year ends. It sets a precedent for others as well, no? :-)

That render's a start, and not a bad one. But again, there's not much there, and you seem really loath to show more.

Here's the thing. My money is my time. I work to earn the money. It's the reimbursement i receive for spending the time being productive at my job. If my time earning my disposable income isn't worth your time to show me what I'd be getting for taking my money - which is my time, then I feel no desire to pay you for product 6+ months in advance.

You see it as matter of "trust". I guess in terms that trusting the community that said they wanted plastic sisters and going ahead and doing it. Fine. I trust you to deliver what you promise in terms of a bunch of models. It's just that what you're not willing to show me what you're promising. I see it as a matter of respect. At present, I don't feel that my time is respected. You're happy to take my money, but not happy to show me what my money gets me. For "Deliver as promised" to be meaningful, it kinda needs me to be able to see much more of what you're actually promising me. If you're not willing to let me see it, what you deliver can be pretty vague.


There are plenty of star fethers on the KS who will abase themselves at your feet and stroke your ego. What they say is generally as useless as the things said to you by the ones who hate you and everything you do. I'm not asking you to alter the bundles. I'm not asking for special snowflake treatment. I'm asking you to treat me with respect by showing myself and others what you actually plan to give me/us in return for the money 6 months in advance rather than vague descriptions, a small few renders and photos of raw prints, and too many uses of the word "best". (Even moreso an issue when you consider the "promotion" for the pre-order that doesn't seem to have happened.)

It's exacerbated by the fact that you guys seem very keen on closing the pre-order period this many months in advance yet not showing anything more than the little we've seen . It's a form of hard-sell that I find distasteful.

GET YOUR PRE-ORDERS IN NOW WHILE THERE'S STILL TIME BEFORE WE ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO CLOSE THEM!!!!! Items to be delivered in 6* months.
*If unforseen events occur, that 6 months may be 8, 10 or 12. Not that unforeseen events EVER happen to Kickstarters or Not-Kickstarters like this one. ever.

 Azazelx wrote:
That render's a start, and not a bad one. But again, there's not much there, and you seem really loath to show more.

Here's the thing. My money is my time. I work to earn the money. It's the reimbursement i receive for spending the time being productive at my job. If my time earning my disposable income isn't worth your time to show me what I'd be getting for taking my money - which is my time, then I feel no desire to pay you for product 6+ months in advance.

You see it as matter of "trust". I guess in terms that trusting the community that said they wanted plastic sisters and going ahead and doing it. Fine. I trust you to deliver what you promise in terms of a bunch of models. It's just that what you're not willing to show me what you're promising. I see it as a matter of respect. At present, I don't feel that my time is respected.

Shieldwolf have mentioned several times the issues that occured with posting images that are not 100% (or at least very close to), as that can impact upon the company negatively, which already have happened. By posting unfinished WIPs, there is a great risk that these images are taken out of their context and spread around to others. And before you know it, these WIPs all of a sudden become "the finished product". And when people see a WIP and believe it is a finished product, they could potentially shun away from it, thinking that the product looks bad. I am convinced that once Shieldwolf have something that is complete and worth showing then they will show it. There is no gains in keeping things hidden as that will only serve to damage the company and the reputation. Everyone will just have to be patient. With that said one has to, of course, feel confident about paying for a product, and if that doesn't occur, then it will be harder to pay for it, obviously.

Maybe the best solution would be to run the pre-order when they actually have finished examples of what they are offering then?

I know, radical idea...

I agree with Azazelx.

I agree as well. I was looking forward to the fantasy paladins, but without more pictures then its a no go from me.

Without pictures or updates then what is the guarantee that we don't get the weird box hands that were on the original sci-fi renders. Or other choices like that, and then its "we did not know that people wanted that..."

I understand not wanting to show something that might not make it in, but its better than something making it in that no one wants.

Otherwise you are asking for 6 months advanced purchase with only the barest concept to go on. Which for me, means my money is going elsewhere.

@Shieldwolf, ok thanks, im sure helmets and weapons for the sci-fi kits have been mentioned in this thread but will there be enough helmets for each mini in the box? as i much prefer those than the "bare heads", what were the main weapon options ie how many single & two handed guns? and with the single handed guns what will be in the "bare" hand ie left bare, with knife or a grenade etc?

Now we know an estimated date for the close of pre-orders, like others have said now is the time to show everyone whats on offer, at mo its a hard decision for me to either drop 160 Euros on LAURA (sci-fi level-4) pre-order or get the 60 Euro FRANCESCA (sci-fi level-2) and wait for retail for the tanks, the savings on Laura is great but i dont need 80 space nuns especially if i dont know what the end result will be like and before you mention "trust"(see my comment below) we had a lot more images to go on when we are backing one of your KS and they ran for a max of 30 days!, my arm could be twisted once ive seen whats exactly on offer but even then i dont really need 80, so the sprues will need to be well thought out with enough weapons, heads etc and like someone mentioned no surprises like the original "box hands".

As for the mentioned "trust" i think that mainly works with us previous backers and a few that have either followed you on FB or KS but not a previous backer or did the research into your past dealings, but "trust" will not work with the majority of the paying "public", they buy items based on what they see at the time of purchase whether thats concept pictures, renders or the finial production item.

The comments here from us may sound harsh but we are being that way to get "points of view" across and for you to do/be your best a bit like "tuff love", imagine how much better(im not saying they are going bad, far from that) the pre-orders would be with everything on display in one of the fore-mentioned methods!

Maybe a big red WIP over the pic will help get the message across that the renders are not the final product.

I like the hammer, but is it possible to scale it down?

I think a hammer head 60% of the size of that one would still be Heroic scale.

I tried to upload some more pictures (sci-fi weaponry this time) approved for the plastic kits but for some reason I couldn't. More pictures to come.
Anyway, closing date of the preorders still not announced as we had (yet another) something new to deal with (argh!!!). We promise to notify in advance though :-)

We won't be able to check in tomorrow so I wish everyone a happy weekend from today!

grefven wrote:

Shieldwolf have mentioned several times the issues that occured with posting images that are not 100% (or at least very close to), as that can impact upon the company negatively, which already have happened. By posting unfinished WIPs, there is a great risk that these images are taken out of their context and spread around to others. And before you know it, these WIPs all of a sudden become "the finished product". And when people see a WIP and believe it is a finished product, they could potentially shun away from it, thinking that the product looks bad. I am convinced that once Shieldwolf have something that is complete and worth showing then they will show it. There is no gains in keeping things hidden as that will only serve to damage the company and the reputation. Everyone will just have to be patient. With that said one has to, of course, feel confident about paying for a product, and if that doesn't occur, then it will be harder to pay for it, obviously.

The thing with paying now while being patient and "keeping the faith" is that having an idea in my mind and hoping that it matches up to the ideas in Shieldwolf's minds and then their final product is the best way to never ever be disappointed in something. Because naturally they will match 100% with the only deviations being things that just blow me away with how much better they are. Because Shieldwolf has never set a foot wrong or had questionable design choices.

 Nostromodamus wrote:
Maybe the best solution would be to run the pre-order when they actually have finished examples of what they are offering then?
I know, radical idea...

Crazy idea. It'll never fly.


Actually. I can't see the benefit of them closing pre-orders this early at all. The cynic in me sees it as a lack of faith in their own product to get as much money now and lock it down as early as possible rather than locking it later when they're able to show people exactly what they're getting for a fully informed decision.

Trust is paying for a product that shows everything on offer. Blind faith is buying something that is barely shown and hoping for the best. I'm down with trust, but I'm not one for blind faith. It might be harsh, but it's how I see things.


Anyway, I might feth off from posting in this thread for awhile, since it seems that I've gone from a strong-if-critical supporter of Shieldwolf to posting in circles with my increasing frustration towards their reticence on showing anything substantial that's not rendered with a fish-eye lens effect.