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So, recently I was painting some new deathwing models and I started wondering.

1 Would centurion troops be Deathwing or Greenwing? (Regulars)
2 Will the lion's sons even USE centurions?
(This one is for codex readers)
3. When, for all that's holy will the dark oracle die?!

1. I think Centurions could be either. I can't think of a reason they would be exclusive to either.
2. I hope not.

Greenwing. Centurions are drawn from the Chapter's Assault and Devastator Squads. The reason listed in the Codex why Veterans don't use them is that they are too specialised for Veterans who need flexibility.

Why would Dark Angels want to field the stupid things when they are dripping with Terminator armour? They aren't a choice in the DA codex, and I really hope they don't get crobarred in there.

 Flinty wrote:
Why would Dark Angels want to field the stupid things when they are dripping with Terminator armour? They aren't a choice in the DA codex, and I really hope they don't get crobarred in there.

TDA is a system for Deathwing only, and they are primarily for hunting Fallen. In a situation where the DW can't help a Greenwing force, Assault Centurions to melee and DevCents for heavy support are amazing.
What about sieges? The primary use of Centurions is cracking open fortresses or being barely mobile firebases.

the dark oracle won't die until the lion awakens and forgives him.

 Deadshot wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
Why would Dark Angels want to field the stupid things when they are dripping with Terminator armour? They aren't a choice in the DA codex, and I really hope they don't get crobarred in there.

TDA is a system for Deathwing only, and they are primarily for hunting Fallen. In a situation where the DW can't help a Greenwing force, Assault Centurions to melee and DevCents for heavy support are amazing.
What about sieges? The primary use of Centurions is cracking open fortresses or being barely mobile firebases.

Dark Angels don't have them. They are one of the differentiators between the chapters. If the DAs need a fortress broken they teleport in the Deathwing.

 Flinty wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
Why would Dark Angels want to field the stupid things when they are dripping with Terminator armour? They aren't a choice in the DA codex, and I really hope they don't get crobarred in there.

TDA is a system for Deathwing only, and they are primarily for hunting Fallen. In a situation where the DW can't help a Greenwing force, Assault Centurions to melee and DevCents for heavy support are amazing.
What about sieges? The primary use of Centurions is cracking open fortresses or being barely mobile firebases.

Dark Angels don't have them. They are one of the differentiators between the chapters. If the DAs need a fortress broken they teleport in the Deathwing.

Isn't this what we are discussing? And what if they have no Deathwing to spare.

Then they have dreadnoughts and vindicators.

1. Greenwing, Centurion armour is to piloted by regular marines for special jobs, whilst the deathwing are all veterans. Also they deathwing have deep strike as an important part of their arsenal, which Centurions.

2. I expect and hope they wouldn't. The DA seems to be mainly into making lightning raids to capture a Fallen or something. Centurions are too slow for this tactic.

3. When GW advances the damn plot of 40k, AKA "possibly never".

according to white dwarf, the centurion was recovered during the end of the age of apostocy. making it about 4 thousand years old. the fluff for the razorback tells us that to space Marine chapters that means it's considered "new and untried" the dark angels may thus view it was suspicion and be holding off adapting it until it's had more time to prove itself

1) Greenwing, for the reason people listed.

2) I think they should have access to them, especially when considering DA's affinity for heavy armor. I view the suits as a tool for siege and assault purposes. It is silly not to give access of the tools to all Chapters.

3) When The Lion gives him a chance to redeem himself.

 insaniak wrote:
Then they have dreadnoughts and vindicators.

The exact reason for Assault Centurions is for advancing through too dense for heavy firepower from Vindicators or Predators and too narrow for an Ironclad Dreadnought.

 Deadshot wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Then they have dreadnoughts and vindicators.

The exact reason for Assault Centurions is for advancing through too dense for heavy firepower from Vindicators or Predators and too narrow for an Ironclad Dreadnought.

And centurions are a low tech answer to terminator armour, which the DA are dripping in and hence don't include Centurions in their army list as they use terminators. Its a bit of a circular argument at this point.

 Flinty wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Then they have dreadnoughts and vindicators.

The exact reason for Assault Centurions is for advancing through too dense for heavy firepower from Vindicators or Predators and too narrow for an Ironclad Dreadnought.

And centurions are a low tech answer to terminator armour, which the DA are dripping in and hence don't include Centurions in their army list as they use terminators. Its a bit of a circular argument at this point.

Says who? Nothing in the entry says they are low-Tech TDA. They are specialised suits, and only Veterans can pilot TDA. They have to be flexible. They are not a poor-marine's Terminator. The Deathwing are first and foremost for hunting the Fallen and nothing else. If there are no Deathwing squads available, Centurions are needed.

What are Centurion suits for?

pm713 wrote:
What are Centurion suits for?

Assault Centurions are for breaking open fortresses in areas too narrow for Ironclad or Siege Dreadnoughts and too crowded for Vindicators or Predators. They are also extremely useful in boarding actions and crowded spaces. But primarily sieges.
Devastator Centurions are for heavy, mobile firepower on a Astartes sized frame. They bring powerful heavy weapons to the footsoldier whilst retaining a degree of mobility. Their firepower is handy in cracking open sieges, point defence and mobile firebase.

 Deadshot wrote:

pm713 wrote:
What are Centurion suits for?

Assault Centurions are for breaking open fortresses in areas too narrow for Ironclad or Siege Dreadnoughts and too crowded for Vindicators or Predators. They are also extremely useful in boarding actions and crowded spaces. But primarily sieges.
Devastator Centurions are for heavy, mobile firepower on a Astartes sized frame. They bring powerful heavy weapons to the footsoldier whilst retaining a degree of mobility. Their firepower is handy in cracking open sieges, point defence and mobile firebase.

Both of which can be done better by Terminators. So you can see why people would think Centurions are discount Terminators.

pm713 wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

pm713 wrote:
What are Centurion suits for?

Assault Centurions are for breaking open fortresses in areas too narrow for Ironclad or Siege Dreadnoughts and too crowded for Vindicators or Predators. They are also extremely useful in boarding actions and crowded spaces. But primarily sieges.
Devastator Centurions are for heavy, mobile firepower on a Astartes sized frame. They bring powerful heavy weapons to the footsoldier whilst retaining a degree of mobility. Their firepower is handy in cracking open sieges, point defence and mobile firebase.

Both of which can be done better by Terminators. So you can see why people would think Centurions are discount Terminators.

except I don't see terminators wielding grav amped grav cannons and hurricane bolters..............................

A better question might be.

Why don't DA get Stormravens or any flyer worth anything?

 Flinty wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Then they have dreadnoughts and vindicators.

The exact reason for Assault Centurions is for advancing through too dense for heavy firepower from Vindicators or Predators and too narrow for an Ironclad Dreadnought.

And centurions are a low tech answer to terminator armour, which the DA are dripping in and hence don't include Centurions in their army list as they use terminators. Its a bit of a circular argument at this point.

Do Dark Angels nesscarily have a lot of terminator armor though? more then any other first founding chapter?

pm713 wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

pm713 wrote:
What are Centurion suits for?

Assault Centurions are for breaking open fortresses in areas too narrow for Ironclad or Siege Dreadnoughts and too crowded for Vindicators or Predators. They are also extremely useful in boarding actions and crowded spaces. But primarily sieges.
Devastator Centurions are for heavy, mobile firepower on a Astartes sized frame. They bring powerful heavy weapons to the footsoldier whilst retaining a degree of mobility. Their firepower is handy in cracking open sieges, point defence and mobile firebase.

Both of which can be done better by Terminators. So you can see why people would think Centurions are discount Terminators.

Wrong, Centurions are superior at both roles. Assault Centurions have powerful siege drills that grind through armour with ease, along with Meltaguns to help breach, flamers to scour the inside and frag launchers or hurricane bolters for personal defense.
DevCents have Lascannons and Grav Cannons, both superior to the Assault Cannon or CML, as well as the possibility of Missile Launchers in the chest.

 raiden wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

pm713 wrote:
What are Centurion suits for?

Assault Centurions are for breaking open fortresses in areas too narrow for Ironclad or Siege Dreadnoughts and too crowded for Vindicators or Predators. They are also extremely useful in boarding actions and crowded spaces. But primarily sieges.
Devastator Centurions are for heavy, mobile firepower on a Astartes sized frame. They bring powerful heavy weapons to the footsoldier whilst retaining a degree of mobility. Their firepower is handy in cracking open sieges, point defence and mobile firebase.

Both of which can be done better by Terminators. So you can see why people would think Centurions are discount Terminators.

except I don't see terminators wielding grav amped grav cannons and hurricane bolters..............................

No you see them teleporting with Assault Cannons, MIssile Launchers and power weapons.

pm713 wrote:

 raiden wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

pm713 wrote:
What are Centurion suits for?

Assault Centurions are for breaking open fortresses in areas too narrow for Ironclad or Siege Dreadnoughts and too crowded for Vindicators or Predators. They are also extremely useful in boarding actions and crowded spaces. But primarily sieges.
Devastator Centurions are for heavy, mobile firepower on a Astartes sized frame. They bring powerful heavy weapons to the footsoldier whilst retaining a degree of mobility. Their firepower is handy in cracking open sieges, point defence and mobile firebase.

Both of which can be done better by Terminators. So you can see why people would think Centurions are discount Terminators.

except I don't see terminators wielding grav amped grav cannons and hurricane bolters..............................

No you see them teleporting with Assault Cannons, MIssile Launchers and power weapons.

None of which are as good as Centurion loadouts in a siege. Assault Drill and Meltagun is better than a Chainfist for breaching, Hurricane Bolters are better anti-personnel weapons than stormbolters, Lascannons are better breaching weapons, Grav-Cannons are better armour busters and subsequently better breaching weapons. Centurions also get Chest mounted Missile Launchers as well as the primary weapon.

 Deadshot wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 raiden wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

pm713 wrote:
What are Centurion suits for?

Assault Centurions are for breaking open fortresses in areas too narrow for Ironclad or Siege Dreadnoughts and too crowded for Vindicators or Predators. They are also extremely useful in boarding actions and crowded spaces. But primarily sieges.
Devastator Centurions are for heavy, mobile firepower on a Astartes sized frame. They bring powerful heavy weapons to the footsoldier whilst retaining a degree of mobility. Their firepower is handy in cracking open sieges, point defence and mobile firebase.

Both of which can be done better by Terminators. So you can see why people would think Centurions are discount Terminators.

except I don't see terminators wielding grav amped grav cannons and hurricane bolters..............................

No you see them teleporting with Assault Cannons, MIssile Launchers and power weapons.

None of which are as good as Centurion loadouts in a siege. Assault Drill and Meltagun is better than a Chainfist for breaching, Hurricane Bolters are better anti-personnel weapons than stormbolters, Lascannons are better breaching weapons, Grav-Cannons are better armour busters and subsequently better breaching weapons. Centurions also get Chest mounted Missile Launchers as well as the primary weapon.

Which is wonderful unless the place you're attacking has Lascannons in which case Centurions have nothing.
I doubt that very much.
Terminators have a Cyclone Launcher in addition to a primary weapon. When you consider the primary weapon can be an Assault Cannon I'm going to say the Terminator is better than a Centurion.

Terminators don't get Assault Cannons and CML. They only get a Stormbolter.
You can't claim something is better when they do different jobs. One is a dedicated bunker breaching system, the other is for spearheading attacks and taking on the super dangerous stuff like Titans and boarding Tyranid ships. If one tried to do the other's job they couldn't deliver to the same degree. Assault Centurions will be better at chewing through fotresses and bunkersss but assault Terminators will be better at smashing things with their Hammer or shredding with their Claws. Devastator Centurions will be better at blasting out fortresses and defending a position using heavy firepower, whereas a regular Terminator Squad will be better at close-ranged firefighters and assaults.

They can take both. By your logic Centurions don't have anything because they didn't pick any of it up.

pm713 wrote:
They can take both. By your logic Centurions don't have anything because they didn't pick any of it up.

No they can't. Show me an example.
And your second sentence makes no sense.

Centurions pack more firepower man for man than Terminators do.
Two Heavy Bolters/Two lascannons/Grav-Cannon with Grav-Amp and a Hurricane Bolter/Missile Launcher

Standard Terminator meanwhile comes packing a Storm Bolter. Even with an Assault Cannon or Missile Launcher they are under-gunned in comparison to the Cents.

I'm just not going to try anymore.