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 streamdragon wrote:

 Mywik wrote:

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also - Op, do iron priests gain normal techmarine rules like bolster defenses?

They dont.

So they just have Blessing of the Omnisiah and that's it?

They also are IC's with runic armor and a Thunder hammer, who can ride wolves. Base cost of 55? if i remember from earlier. They are pretty awesome even w/o Bolster Defences imo.

Yeah, they are more concerned with repairing their enemies with sweeps of their Thunder Hammer than bolstering ruins and such.

 pretre wrote:
Yeah, they are more concerned with repairing their enemies with sweeps of their Thunder Hammer than bolstering ruins and such.

Much like there are three key steps to battlefield medicine, there are three key steps to battlefield corrective maintenance.

1) Make sure it doesn't go from damaged to destroyed in the next three seconds.
2) Kill anyone who might interfere with your repairs by beating you to death or gunning you down.
3) Make repairs.

Or, as they taught my dad back in corpsman A-school, the first thing you administer to a wounded Marine is fire superiority.

I have a few questions about GH.

1. How many points is the Wolf Guard upgrade?
2. How many points is a power fist for the Wolf Guard?
3. How many points is a Wolf Standard?

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Yeah, they are more concerned with repairing their enemies with sweeps of their Thunder Hammer than bolstering ruins and such.

Much like there are three key steps to battlefield medicine, there are three key steps to battlefield corrective maintenance.

1) Make sure it doesn't go from damaged to destroyed in the next three seconds.
2) Kill anyone who might interfere with your repairs by beating you to death or gunning you down.
3) Make repairs.

Or, as they taught my dad back in corpsman A-school, the first thing you administer to a wounded Marine is fire superiority.

That's awesome. And I completely agree!

Bear in mind that SW iron priests dont get bolster terrain. They get repair only. Though they can do it from the back of a thunderwolf. :-)

 Gideon999 wrote:
Bear in mind that SW iron priests dont get bolster terrain. They get repair only. Though they can do it from the back of a thunderwolf. :-)

Or the inside of a Stormwolf.

The thunderhammer is also very useful for administering “percussive maintenance” to particularly stubborn machine spirits.

Do the Wolves get Grav Weapons of any kind?

What do the relics do? Who can use them?

Seems like people aren't reading the thread before they ask questions...

OP would be wise to organize all the replies he's given in the first post so they could be referenced unit by unit/section by section. Would cut down the duplication.

Though at this point I expect a lot of codexes in hand this evening/tomorrow evening so there might not be much of a scoop left.

I may have missed this on the Iron Priest, is there still a unit of Servitors and Cyberwolves available as a retinue?

Or you could just filter OP and ctrl+f . Easy

Super Newb wrote:
Seems like people aren't reading the thread before they ask questions...

I did read the entire thread and didn't see this particular piece of information, therefore concluded it was a relevant ask. There is information about what the Wolves no longer have. Unless I missed it, which is possible when reading the thread on a cell phone, this has not yet been posted. Maybe you're jumping to conclusions?

So seeing as this thread has already thrown points all over the place here is the points costs as rumored for Wolf Guard Pack Leaders, (trying to work out the most cost effective model across the board).

Not sure what the associated cost is for taking TDA Upgrade, (haven't seen anything mentioned yet but surely there would be), rumored to be 33pts for 1x TDA WG Pack so assumedly another 15pts on top, (seeing as a PA WG is 18pts, (effectively saving 3pts per model when upgraded).

Wolf Guard Power Armour:

- Bolt Pistol / Chainsword / 15pts Upgrade, (Standard Wargear) = 15pts Total.
- Bolt Pistol / Power Weapon (15pts) / Upgrade (15pts) = 30pts Total.
- Bolt Pistol / Storm Shield (15pts) / Upgrade (15pts) = 30pts Total.
- Bolt Pistol / Wolf Claw (20pts) / Upgrade (15pts) = 35pts Total.
- Bolt Pistol / Frost Sword (20pts) / Upgrade (15pts) = 35pts Total.
- Bolt Pistol / Power Fist (25pts) / Upgrade (15pts) = 40pts Total.
- Bolt Pistol / Thunder Hammer (30pts) / Upgrade (15pts) = 45pts Total.

- Plasma Pistol (15pts) / Chainsword / Upgrade (15pts) = 30pts Total.
- Plasma Pistol (15pts) / Power Weapon (15pts) / Upgrade (15pts) = 45pts Total.
- Plasma Pistol (15pts) / Storm Shield (15pts) / Upgrade (15pts) = 45pts Total.
- Plasma Pistol (15pts) / Wolf Claw (20pts) / Upgrade (15pts) = 50pts Total.
- Plasma Pistol (15pts) / Frost Sword (20pts) / Upgrade (15pts) = 50pts Total.
- Plasma Pistol (15pts) / Power Fist (25pts) / Upgrade (15pts) = 55pts Total.
- Plasma Pistol (15pts) / Thunder Hammer (30pts) / Upgrade (15pts) = 60pts Total.

- Combi Weapon (10pts) / Chainsword / Upgrade (15pts) = 25pts Total.
- Combi Weapon (10pts) / Power Weapon (15pts) / Upgrade (15pts) = 40pts Total.
- Combi Weapon (10pts) / Storm Shield (15pts) / Upgrade (15pts) = 40pts Total.
- Combi Weapon (10pts) / Wolf Claw (20pts) / Upgrade (15pts) = 45pts Total.
- Combi Weapon (10pts) / Frost Sword (20pts) / Upgrade (15pts) = 45pts Total.
- Combi Weapon (10pts) / Power Fist (25pts) / Upgrade (15pts) = 50pts Total.
- Combi Weapon (10pts) / Thunder Hammer (30pts) / Upgrade (15pts) = 55pts Total.

- Wolf Claw x 2 (30pts) / Upgrade (15pts) = 45pts Total.
- Thunder Hammer (30pts) / Storm Shield (15pts) / Upgrade (15pts) = 60pts Total.
- Frost Sword (20pts) / Storm Shield (15pts) / Upgrade (15pts) = 50pts Total.
- Wolf Claw (20pts) / Power Fist (25pts) / Upgrade (15pts) = 60pts Total.

Obviously a lot more, but you can use the above to chop and change as you see fit; I'll update if people want once we have the confirmed price for TDA.

We haven't seen any mention of Storm Bolters for PA WG yet, (used to be 3pts), but for me my personal favourites are as follows:

1) Bolt Pistol / Frost Sword (20pts) / Upgrade (15pts) = 35pts Total.
Cheap and cheerful Close Combat orientated character, stands a decent chance of taking someone out at I4, (4A at S5 AP3 on the charge). Also fairly simple to model on a Bike, (holstered Pistol from TWC set, twin linked Boltguns for ranged combat too).

2) Combi Weapon (10pts) / Chainsword / Upgrade (15pts) = 25pts Total.
Cheap and cheerful Ranged addition, doesn't have two CCW so 3A at S4 AP- on the charge. Basically adds an additional Rapid Fire Plasma and CC attack for the price of a Plasma Gun +10pts.

3) None... at least on a PA WG = 0pts Total.
My concerns are that you're paying for upgrades on a character that can be challenged. Outside of a Combi Weapon at 24in for the added ranged prowess and a cheap AP3 weapon, these WG PA models are still susceptible to AP3. Honestly we need the confirmed TDA upgrade costs, then Storm Shields become viable with the AP3 weapons being negated by the 2+ / 3++ saves; Storm Shields are still damn expensive if the leaks are to be believed though.

Overall I'll probably model up 10 or so different load outs and mix and match for playtesting. Makes for decent modelling, even if I won't end up using a bunch of them! Thoughts people?

I wouldnt spend much on a Power Armored WG in a GH squad. I would say take the 10 pt upgrade for the LDR, essentially you are adding 1pt to the marines for ldr 9. You already have 2 meltas in the squad.

In all other cases, I would take the minimum 5, 1 melta and a WG in terminator armor with a combimelta- essentially the same tactic everyone took with the old book.

You are really paying more now for the WG than you did in the old codex and most people never took the WG in power armor then. Previously you spent 23 for power armor and a combiweapon, now its 30.

The power weapons dont make much sense to me, they are expensive, and at the end of the day, you charge in with say 3 attacks, you hit 1.5 and you are lucky to get one wound against any MEQ. Against non meq, what are you worried about the power weapon for?

sturguard wrote:
I would think there isnt much incentive to take a WG in PA at all except for the +1 ldr. I mean you are paying 30 pts for one plasma pistol shot, or one combimelta shot. Now under the old dex, you could take the PA WG and put them in squads so you could get to the heavy weapons, but it seems that is no more. Me, either I am going to take a full squad of GH with 2 meltas or you go MSU and take 5 guys with 1 melta and a WG in termie armor with combimelta, same as you would have 2 weeks ago.

Don't forget we're also paying to upgrade from a Grey Hunter so you're that's 14pts basic on top.

So yeah, with the simple Combi Weapon upgrade you're paying for a Grey Hunter (14pts), then the upgrade to Wolf Guard (15pts), then the Combi Weapon (10pts) so 39pts total for an extra Plasma/Melta shot (2 if saved for rapid fire on the former). With the Frost Sword & Bolt Pistol version you're paying for 49pts to replace, the standard 2 S4 AP- attacks (GH with BG & CCW) with 4 S5 AP3 attacks (WGPL with BP & FS) - assuming in all cases either charged or counter charged.

To me this doesn't add up. I know we effectively 'gain' another Elite slot but the upgrade cost is crippling unto itself. Unless, and this is with all respect to Mywik (who has done a stellar job answering everyones questions), the 15pts is the TDA upgrade cost and the PA WGPL is in the squad as standard? In all the unit profiles it appears to be in there as standard in all units now, (as per a Sergeant), i.e. 4 Grey Hunters with Boltgun & Bolt Pistol and a PA WGBL with Bolt Pistol and Chainsword. The more I worked at it, the more this seems to be the case. Why would they include a cost for a WGBL at 15pts when he's already part of the squad; ergo the 15pts is for the TDA upgrade, which evens out as per my costings in the second paragraph.

Then you'd be getting a Combi Weapon for 10pts, or those 4 S5 AP3 attacks for 20pts. Much more reasonable. Mywik, if you can check and reiterate that would be simply sublime!

Really liking what I have read so far, nothing is as doom and gloom as I thought from the rumors.

I have to say so far the idea of the IP on a Twolf running around has my gears turning on MIU (multiple individual units). IP on Twolves, and LWs in TDA running around, that's a lot of 2+ armor to go an punk units off of objectives and such.

I love that LWs are now 1 per WG/GH unit, that's very fluffy and gives you some flexibility.

Dread with Axe and SS finally gives you a dread you can Pod as a useful distraction, who might ACTUALLY live until the next turn so you can use him.

You shouldn't count the base 14. As you'd still take that GH anyways so it isn't part of the 'upgrade' and you don't lose the functionality of the GH.

You pay 25 points for a combi-weapon shot, extra attack, extra ld, etc.

And as mentioned before, you should just take the superior TDA upgrade for this unit anways, unless you really really want that extra special weapon for the 10th model. IMO GH Will be stronger running 4-5 PA and a TDA WG.

Guys, pretty sure it is 10 points to upgrade a GH to a WG pack leader. Unless Spanish speaking people get a discount us English people don't?

Edit - just looked again and I am 100% sure it is ten points. I'd wager my entire net worth on it.

Yes it is, so 14+10+15, then 5 for a combi so 44 points to take a TDA WG with combi and free PW, basically the same as before.

Also worth noting it costs 48 points to run a TDA WG with SS and TH, where it was what, 63, 68 points before?

So GH upgrade to PA WG is 10
You spend another 15 and can get TDA

That's how the pack leader upgrades work

Ninja'd!

Muhahahah, and really you gain so much more with TDA than trying to shoehorn in a combi in there in a PAWG

 More Dakka wrote:
Muhahahah, and really you gain so much more with TDA than trying to shoehorn in a combi in there in a PAWG

Well alpha strike drop pods would go for the two specials and a PA WG with a combi methinks.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Kal-El wrote:
If there is no mention of the 13 co and motw gone...what gives? This straight up space Viking crap now? Think there's a supplement in the works? And if no mention of 13 co what about the blank rune on the table

They must be mentioned, as this is supposedly from the codex...



It's a shame they don't have rules, but 13th company have never had rules in the codex so it's nothing exceptional that they still don't.

Yea That entry is actually idencitcal to the older codex, but it still doesn't have anything about the wulfen does it in the fluff? What does the fluff say about the canis helix gene? And the fluff about the 13th co being lost in the warp, bipedal beings of terror etc. Anything new or is it omitted? I'm upset the werewolf factor seems to be missing from the codex via others posts. That was the biggest reason I liked the wolves!

From what I understand it is the GH cost 14 plus 10 for the WG upgrade, then a further 10 for the combiweapon. So you are paying 34 pts, and of course you count the GH cost. If you want a WG with combimelta you pay 34 pts.

Like I said, I would expect 3 options
1. No WG, just 10 GHs bare bones, no CC weapon, 2 meltas, most likely in a pod.
2. Same as above but take the 10 pt upgrade for ldr 9.
3. Take 5 GH, upgrade one to a WG in Termie armor with a combimelta and take a melta in the squad.

You can put all kinds of upgrades, plasma pistols etc into the GHs but it only makes them even more expensive and doesn't add to their usefulness, it just makes it more expensive when your opponent shoots at the squad and instead of losing 14 pt GHs, you are losing 24 pt GHs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Do we have any info on:
Armor of Russ (Armor)
Bite of Fenris (Bolter with two fire modes)
Black Death (Frost Axe, Rule: Whirldwind of Death)
Helm of Durfast (Wargear)
Fangsword of the Ice Wolf (Frost Sword)
Wulfenstone (Wargear)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would be interested to know what the Wulfenstone, and the Helm do, I would bet the others are pretty bland and overcosted weapons.

Wulfenstone (Wargear)

Call it WulfenStein, the german way is far more amusing.

It also grants rage to the bearer, and furious charge to the IC and unit joined.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Wulfenstone (Wargear)

Call it WulfenStein, the german way is far more amusing.

It also grants rage to the bearer, and furious charge to the IC and unit joined.

That could be nasty on a Thunderlord with a Frost Axe leading TWC

These are my speculations but I expect the following

Armour of Russ grants a 2+ 6++ and Eternal Warrior or Fearless or something.
Bite of Fenris has a mode with lots of low strength, bad AP shots with rending or 2 high strength good ap shots with Helfrost.
Helm grants like Zealot and Adamantium Will or something.
Black Death can choose to hit everything in base contact.
Wulfenstone is like Tyranid Ymgarl factor: A relic that grants the abilities of a previoudly unique unit (YF grants the owner the same +1 Str, Toughness or Attacks as Ymgarl Stealers had). I expect it will grant the old Mark of the Wulfen effect. +D6 attacks with rending and not effected by wargear?