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 EmpNortonII wrote:
Could the Imperial trolls please go away so that those of us who don't get our joy by raining on everyone's parade can talk about the topic?

Not sure you've got much ground to stand on after how brutally you've maligned the Imperium, perceiving every bit of information about how they operate in the worst possible light while attacking interpretations of Tau fluff that were less than noble...

And told the chaos players they're wrong about their fluff. (which is intentionally a bloody mess of inconsistencies because CHaOs!)


Worst of all you've impugned the mighty orks as nothing more than mindless murderers when they are in fact also brutal slavers.


Nearly unforgivable.

 1hadhq wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:
Could the Imperial trolls please go away so that those of us who don't get our joy by raining on everyone's parade can talk about the topic?

May i suggest the Tau Troll who gets his Fun from dissing the IOM in several Threads should think about his own actions First ?
So everyone willing can stay on topic of the OP s Question based on published material of GW instead of your personal Imagination .
Thanks.

Based purely on published Material (I think all Black Library stuff is cannon and not cannon at the same time) then i can't think of any race other then the Eldar Harlequins that the fluff seems to point to. As i stated and quoted before, Xenology and Fire Warrior both point heavily in this direction. Is there any fluff that stands against this, or any fluff which holds equal claim to the advanced development of the Tau?

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
So, they Laws of physics don't apply. Great.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

-Arthur C Clarke

Tech has nohing to do with physics. You can't go faster than the speed of light. That's why they use the warp.

Actually you can, or have you not heard of the warp drive in real life?

So kindly point us to the experimental evidence of a functional warp drive or anything travelling faster than 3*10^8 m/s in a vacuum?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
That device is, currently, only theoretical and, possibly, entirely impossible as our understanding of physics expands.

The math works. The problem is just figuring out how the bloody hell to make negative energy.

So, it doesn't work. You cannot make negative energy as it would allow you to lower the total amount of energy in the universe, a violation of the Laws of Thermodynamics.

Well, I meant negative mass, which can be possibly exploited using negative pressure. The -only- problem is figuring out how to use negative mass and the energy generation required for the ship. And who'd sign up to ride in it, as by leaving the warp bubble people would go splat.

E = mc^2

Energy and mass are interchangeable, so if you can have negative mass, you can have negative energy.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
E = mc^2

Energy and mass are interchangeable, so if you can have negative mass, you can have negative energy.

That Energy is not what you think it is.
That mass isn't either...

Basically E=mcc is just a nice way to hide the complexities.

Please stop with the fake science though, it looks rather sad.

Mass is just another form of energy. They are the same thing in different forms. It's not junk science.

morgoth wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
E = mc^2

Energy and mass are interchangeable, so if you can have negative mass, you can have negative energy.

That Energy is not what you think it is.
That mass isn't either...

Basically E=mcc is just a nice way to hide the complexities.

Please stop with the fake science though, it looks rather sad.

Yes they are. I study physics. I have derived that equation from base principles. You are wrong.

That m is the rest mass of a body (as mass is variable with velocity). So that energy is the energy that a body will have when stationary. That is therefore the absolute minimum energy a body can have.

The full equation is technically E^2 = p^2c^4 + (mc^2)^2 but as we're dealing with a body at rest it has no momentum so it can simplify to E=mc^2.

Unless you would like to argue with Einstein?

and E does not = Tau as far as I know so should we get back on topic?

Harlequins seem to be the favourites atm based on the point raised by ALEXisAWESOME. What would they want with Tau?

There's been rumours that other factions plan on putting the Tau to use such as The Emperor, Tzeentch, Necrons etc.

What do you think these groups want from the Tau?

Do they want them to become a galactic power and destroy chaos? or a part of chaos? be used as a weapon against someone else?

The tau as some weird eldar/harliuin makes the most sense to me, as a race that is practicly immune to being possesed, it makes them very hard for chaos to win against them.

 1hadhq wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:
Could the Imperial trolls please go away so that those of us who don't get our joy by raining on everyone's parade can talk about the topic?

May i suggest the Tau Troll who gets his Fun from dissing the IOM in several Threads should think about his own actions First ?
So everyone willing can stay on topic of the OP s Question based on published material of GW instead of your personal Imagination .
Thanks.

You side started it.

Moreover, I've not done it in any thread the derailed the thread's topic.

Don't try to draw a moral equivalency here. There was NO REASON for anyone to come here and say "Yay the Imperium! They'll smash the Tau!" when we all know darned well that the Imperial policy toward the Tau is containment... because humanity already has bigger concerns with Abaddon the Armless sacking Cadia. The Tau are far more in danger of being overrun by Tyranids.. or Orks, but no. You have to put an Imperial stamp on your trolling... despite the fact that the Imperium will fall long before it can mount the forces to launch an offensive against the Tau.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Taffy17 wrote:

What do you think these groups want from the Tau?

Do they want them to become a galactic power and destroy chaos? or a part of chaos? be used as a weapon against someone else?

Well... there isn't anyone else but Chaos that they are perfectly designed to stop.

@EmpNortonII:



So Mr Troll.

I'd say you take your time and start reading the background material. Please.
Almost none of your claims got a foot to stand on.


BoT:


Neither chaos nor tyranids nor orks are meant to be stopped, but Eldar and Humans and Necrons and all these multitudes of other xeno species are not meant to die.
To alter the Tau is beneficial for:

- Humans ? mankind is on its way to greater psychic presence, they need to deal with a realm the Tau don't understand. Tau are as useful as Crons or Orks to them. Maybe Crons are better if they share some tech...
- Eldar ? Eldar are pretty selfish. They failed to educate the younger races, but really really like to use the "uncivilized" as their tools. The Eldar are splintered into so many factions its possible one of them has a plan for Tau.
- Orks ? Green is best. Orks won't care for blue-grey beeings. Not green enough, too pansy, etc.
- Necrons? Crons don't consider anyone their equal, the plan is Order and obedience. Tau and their superiority complex however...Serve the dynasty and feth your greater good. There is a whole Galaxy to be re-conquered.
- Tyranids ? Yes they want the biomass of the Tau, the Tau allies, the whole arm of the Galaxy they live in and so on. Tyranids create more tyranids.
- Chaos? Has its own realm. And lots of fun ruining someones life. Enough playthings for all eternity, don't need Tau.
- Old ones? Maybe. An attempt to be less specialized ( eldar and krork ) , to create a team instead of a unruly bunch of space elfs and space orcs. Not stirring the empyrean up further.

I'll just put in that no one can be totally unbiased. A Tau player like myself is always gonna want their faction to have the potential to make progress and have some influence in the galaxy. I'm sure other factions who don't have much impact on the big picture (from my experience) such as DEldar or Necrons feel the same way.

 1hadhq wrote:
Neither chaos nor tyranids nor orks are meant to be stopped, but Eldar and Humans and Necrons and all these multitudes of other xeno species are not meant to die.
To alter the Tau is beneficial for:

- Humans ? mankind is on its way to greater psychic presence, they need to deal with a realm the Tau don't understand. Tau are as useful as Crons or Orks to them. Maybe Crons are better if they share some tech...
- Eldar ? Eldar are pretty selfish. They failed to educate the younger races, but really really like to use the "uncivilized" as their tools. The Eldar are splintered into so many factions its possible one of them has a plan for Tau.
- Orks ? Green is best. Orks won't care for blue-grey beeings. Not green enough, too pansy, etc.
- Necrons? Crons don't consider anyone their equal, the plan is Order and obedience. Tau and their superiority complex however...Serve the dynasty and feth your greater good. There is a whole Galaxy to be re-conquered.
- Tyranids ? Yes they want the biomass of the Tau, the Tau allies, the whole arm of the Galaxy they live in and so on. Tyranids create more tyranids.
- Chaos? Has its own realm. And lots of fun ruining someones life. Enough playthings for all eternity, don't need Tau.
- Old ones? Maybe. An attempt to be less specialized ( eldar and krork ) , to create a team instead of a unruly bunch of space elfs and space orcs. Not stirring the empyrean up further.

While you make some valid points can we speculate on the topic before merely writing off all options?

Tau must have some bargaining chips. They are a race open to negotiations that are highly advance and completely immune to the effects of chaos. I'm sure anyone who is anticipating fighting chaos could have use for them.

If there is another black crusade the Imperium may have to swallow its pride and request their help. or if they don't maybe the Tau are the ones who hold the line against the crusade when they get that far. Maybe this was someone's plan all along?

If you are against any theory anyone proposed please suggest another one related to the topic in order to progress the discussion

Thanks

Taffy17 wrote:
I'll just put in that no one can be totally unbiased. A Tau player like myself is always gonna want their faction to have the potential to make progress and have some influence in the galaxy. I'm sure other factions who don't have much impact on the big picture (from my experience) such as DEldar or Necrons feel the same way.

Necrons have had the concept of awakening to the extent that they'd have a huge impact. The Dark Eldar simply aren't there to do so. They aren't trying to make an impact.


While you make some valid points can we speculate on the topic before merely writing off all options?

Tau must have some bargaining chips. They are a race open to negotiations that are highly advance and completely immune to the effects of chaos. I'm sure anyone who is anticipating fighting chaos could have use for them.

There is no reason that I can think of that they would be completely immune to Chaos. Why would they? They are not blanks. They are not immune to being diverted from the path of the Greater Good as seen by the Etherals (evidenced by Farsight). Tau could be tempted into serving Chaos.

If there is another black crusade the Imperium may have to swallow its pride and request their help. or if they don't maybe the Tau are the ones who hold the line against the crusade when they get that far. Maybe this was someone's plan all along?

Any Black Crusade originating from the Eye of Terror that reaches the Tau would have decimated Imperial space. By that point the Tau would still be insignificant because they'd have a barrier of Daemon worlds preventing them from heling remaining (important) Imperial enclaves. If the Black Crusade doesn't reach Tau space then the Tau would be unable to help anyway.

The Tau aren't supposed to be important as it stands in the 41st millennium. Theoretically they could become so. As it is they have less impact on the galaxy than the Dark Eldar by dint of them only being able to affect a tiny proportion of it whereas even the Eldar, a dying race, can intervene in many places in the galaxy.

The Ethereals likely were injected by an exterior force in my opinion simply because their introduction makes it illogical for that to not be the case. Who it is is unknown. Xenology points towards the Eldar. However it could have been the Old Ones, Necrons or an hitherto unknown race. I don't think it really matters that much; the Tau will continue what they are doing.

 1hadhq wrote:


@EmpNortonII:

Spoiler:

In contrast to your weird ideas I wrote:

1hadhq wrote:

Taffy17 wrote:

There is a lot of mystery around the tau and I have heard many rumours that seamed to indicate that they have a great importance in the grand scheme of things.

I've heard several rumours about the Tau and I'll share them with you here...

-The Ethereal's seem to be manipulating the Tau in a certain way and their arrival happening at the same time as lights in the sky indicate some alien race put them there.

Not a rumor. Codex material.

-The Ethereal's crystals in their forehead which they use to control tau through pheromones is similar to that of an ancient arachnid species whose queen was kidnapped by Eldar.

Maybe, maybe not. Tau got 3 Options you can choose from. Yours is just one of them.

-The Eldar created the warp storm that cut them off from the Imperium.

Source?

How many Eldar created warp-storms have you seen in the fluff ?

-Someone in the Imperium (may have been the Emperor) told the ultramarines to protect the Tau seeing as their home world is so close to Macragge.

BS.

The Galaxy belongs to the Emperor. The Ultramarines won't lead crusades against Tau if their "job" was to protect them.

-Tau bare similarities to Necrons and their connected somehow.

Everyone with 4 limbs and a head shares something with Necrons....
But generally Necrons tend to cleanse the Tau off of their Worlds.

Taffy17 wrote:

I quite like the idea that the Eldar created the Tau and the Emperor, believing it was their destiny to defeat chaos told the Ultramarines to protect them and together, unknowingly, have protected them as they've evolved.

What do you think? Is it their destiny to destroy chaos? Help the Necrons or Eldar back to full strength? something else?

I'd love to hear your thoughts

The Destiny of the Tau is to annoy someone so hard, they get kicked out of this Galaxy.

Or, the Tau are the model of a small upstart race on its way through the 40k-verse and GW did a lot of plot-armoring to keep them alive.

Basically the destiny of every participant in Eternal War tm is to be stuck in endless struggle. No respite, no mercy. Just WAR.

I don't see any mistreatment there.

Now your idea of "balanced" posts:

EmpNortonII wrote:

Taffy17 wrote:
So any speculation on why the Eldar or Tzeentch or whoever else might have influenced Tau development?

There are many theories. I'll go through a few.

One thing that applies to the initial set is that the Tau barely register in the Warp. Unlike humanity and the Eldar, Tau don't provide a high level of "food" for the Chaos Gods.

The Eldar may have influenced the race so that the galaxy could become populated by a race that would starve Chaos of the emotional food it needs to survive. Likewise, Tzeentch may have done the same, for He knows that if Chaos wins, it will cease, for there will be no more emotions to feed off of.

The second Eldar theory is that the Tau are all secretly capable of being psykers (or they have been manipulating the Tau's genetic destiny to bring this about) and the Eldar are waiting for the right moment to flip the switch and create a race of psyker-warriors with excellent technology to defeat Chaos.

Likewise, Tzeentch may have done the same, to create new servants that can overpower his brothers and his other enemies.


*MY* favorite theory leaves both of those out, and has the Tau being manipulated by the last Old One. The Tau, unique among the galaxy's powers, are dynamic, intelligent, and creative. Humanity has a lifespan at least three times that of the Tau- the Eldar a thousand times greater- and neither race is capable of many of the technological feats the Tau have made in the last 6,000 years. Of all the wars and all the weapons employed against Chaos and the Necrons, only one was never fully brought to bear. for it was never truly finished. It may be that the Tau are destined to create a control mechanism for the Orks, and use them to crush the Tyranids, Chaos, the Necrons, and Imperial Cult, and to bring peace to the galaxy.

After all, somehow, the galaxy survives the 42nd Millenium, and there isn't much of a reason to believe that Humanity's already-failing defenses will succeed in the 14th Black Crusade after failing so dramatically in the 13th.




6,000 years to go from throwing stone spears and barely mastering fire to star ships and rail guns.

In contrast, humans discovered fire 125,000 years ago, and we still haven't sent people to another planet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_of_fire_by_early_humans

Humanity's stone age ended somewhere between 4,000 and 8,000 years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_Age

The Tau advance much faster than humans do. Considering their shorter life span, it isn't unreasonable to conclude that Tau are, individually, much smarter than individual humans of the Imperium.

Your claims based on ?? vs my posts which never stated any other race is not as smart as any other, of failing or incapable of repairs etc pp.

EmpNortonII wrote:
You side started it.

Moreover, I've not done it in any thread the derailed the thread's topic.

Don't try to draw a moral equivalency here. There was NO REASON for anyone to come here and say "Yay the Imperium! They'll smash the Tau!" when we all know darned well that the Imperial policy toward the Tau is containment... because humanity already has bigger concerns with Abaddon the Armless sacking Cadia. The Tau are far more in danger of being overrun by Tyranids.. or Orks, but no. You have to put an Imperial stamp on your trolling... despite the fact that the Imperium will fall long before it can mount the forces to launch an offensive against the Tau.

So Mr Troll.

I'd say you take your time and start reading the background material. Please.
Almost none of your claims got a foot to stand on.


BoT:


Neither chaos nor tyranids nor orks are meant to be stopped, but Eldar and Humans and Necrons and all these multitudes of other xeno species are not meant to die.
To alter the Tau is beneficial for:

- Humans ? mankind is on its way to greater psychic presence, they need to deal with a realm the Tau don't understand. Tau are as useful as Crons or Orks to them. Maybe Crons are better if they share some tech...
- Eldar ? Eldar are pretty selfish. They failed to educate the younger races, but really really like to use the "uncivilized" as their tools. The Eldar are splintered into so many factions its possible one of them has a plan for Tau.
- Orks ? Green is best. Orks won't care for blue-grey beeings. Not green enough, too pansy, etc.
- Necrons? Crons don't consider anyone their equal, the plan is Order and obedience. Tau and their superiority complex however...Serve the dynasty and feth your greater good. There is a whole Galaxy to be re-conquered.
- Tyranids ? Yes they want the biomass of the Tau, the Tau allies, the whole arm of the Galaxy they live in and so on. Tyranids create more tyranids.
- Chaos? Has its own realm. And lots of fun ruining someones life. Enough playthings for all eternity, don't need Tau.
- Old ones? Maybe. An attempt to be less specialized ( eldar and krork ) , to create a team instead of a unruly bunch of space elfs and space orcs. Not stirring the empyrean up further.

My claim that I haven't trolled Imperial threads is still justified. My claim that Imperial stooges are bitter because Abaddon fethed their asses raw on Cadia is still justified.

Let's just assume, then, that every Imperial-friendly poster here is just pissed because another faction might not be fethed as hard by Chaos as the Imperium was.

I already explained how the Tau could be useful to Eldar, Chaos, and the Old Ones. Rather than making direct responses, you copy-pasted and ignored my points. If you'd like to actually address my theories, you're welcome to do so.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

There is no reason that I can think of that they would be completely immune to Chaos. Why would they? They are not blanks. They are not immune to being diverted from the path of the Greater Good as seen by the Etherals (evidenced by Farsight). Tau could be tempted into serving Chaos.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 1hadhq wrote:


@EmpNortonII:

Spoiler:

In contrast to your weird ideas I wrote:

1hadhq wrote:

Taffy17 wrote:

There is a lot of mystery around the tau and I have heard many rumours that seamed to indicate that they have a great importance in the grand scheme of things.

I've heard several rumours about the Tau and I'll share them with you here...

-The Ethereal's seem to be manipulating the Tau in a certain way and their arrival happening at the same time as lights in the sky indicate some alien race put them there.

Not a rumor. Codex material.

-The Ethereal's crystals in their forehead which they use to control tau through pheromones is similar to that of an ancient arachnid species whose queen was kidnapped by Eldar.

Maybe, maybe not. Tau got 3 Options you can choose from. Yours is just one of them.

-The Eldar created the warp storm that cut them off from the Imperium.

Source?

How many Eldar created warp-storms have you seen in the fluff ?

-Someone in the Imperium (may have been the Emperor) told the ultramarines to protect the Tau seeing as their home world is so close to Macragge.

BS.

The Galaxy belongs to the Emperor. The Ultramarines won't lead crusades against Tau if their "job" was to protect them.

-Tau bare similarities to Necrons and their connected somehow.

Everyone with 4 limbs and a head shares something with Necrons....
But generally Necrons tend to cleanse the Tau off of their Worlds.

Taffy17 wrote:

I quite like the idea that the Eldar created the Tau and the Emperor, believing it was their destiny to defeat chaos told the Ultramarines to protect them and together, unknowingly, have protected them as they've evolved.

What do you think? Is it their destiny to destroy chaos? Help the Necrons or Eldar back to full strength? something else?

I'd love to hear your thoughts

The Destiny of the Tau is to annoy someone so hard, they get kicked out of this Galaxy.

Or, the Tau are the model of a small upstart race on its way through the 40k-verse and GW did a lot of plot-armoring to keep them alive.

Basically the destiny of every participant in Eternal War tm is to be stuck in endless struggle. No respite, no mercy. Just WAR.

I don't see any mistreatment there.

Now your idea of "balanced" posts:

EmpNortonII wrote:

Taffy17 wrote:
So any speculation on why the Eldar or Tzeentch or whoever else might have influenced Tau development?

There are many theories. I'll go through a few.

One thing that applies to the initial set is that the Tau barely register in the Warp. Unlike humanity and the Eldar, Tau don't provide a high level of "food" for the Chaos Gods.

The Eldar may have influenced the race so that the galaxy could become populated by a race that would starve Chaos of the emotional food it needs to survive. Likewise, Tzeentch may have done the same, for He knows that if Chaos wins, it will cease, for there will be no more emotions to feed off of.

The second Eldar theory is that the Tau are all secretly capable of being psykers (or they have been manipulating the Tau's genetic destiny to bring this about) and the Eldar are waiting for the right moment to flip the switch and create a race of psyker-warriors with excellent technology to defeat Chaos.

Likewise, Tzeentch may have done the same, to create new servants that can overpower his brothers and his other enemies.


*MY* favorite theory leaves both of those out, and has the Tau being manipulated by the last Old One. The Tau, unique among the galaxy's powers, are dynamic, intelligent, and creative. Humanity has a lifespan at least three times that of the Tau- the Eldar a thousand times greater- and neither race is capable of many of the technological feats the Tau have made in the last 6,000 years. Of all the wars and all the weapons employed against Chaos and the Necrons, only one was never fully brought to bear. for it was never truly finished. It may be that the Tau are destined to create a control mechanism for the Orks, and use them to crush the Tyranids, Chaos, the Necrons, and Imperial Cult, and to bring peace to the galaxy.

After all, somehow, the galaxy survives the 42nd Millenium, and there isn't much of a reason to believe that Humanity's already-failing defenses will succeed in the 14th Black Crusade after failing so dramatically in the 13th.




6,000 years to go from throwing stone spears and barely mastering fire to star ships and rail guns.

In contrast, humans discovered fire 125,000 years ago, and we still haven't sent people to another planet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_of_fire_by_early_humans

Humanity's stone age ended somewhere between 4,000 and 8,000 years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_Age

The Tau advance much faster than humans do. Considering their shorter life span, it isn't unreasonable to conclude that Tau are, individually, much smarter than individual humans of the Imperium.

Your claims based on ?? vs my posts which never stated any other race is not as smart as any other, of failing or incapable of repairs etc pp.

EmpNortonII wrote:
You side started it.

Moreover, I've not done it in any thread the derailed the thread's topic.

Don't try to draw a moral equivalency here. There was NO REASON for anyone to come here and say "Yay the Imperium! They'll smash the Tau!" when we all know darned well that the Imperial policy toward the Tau is containment... because humanity already has bigger concerns with Abaddon the Armless sacking Cadia. The Tau are far more in danger of being overrun by Tyranids.. or Orks, but no. You have to put an Imperial stamp on your trolling... despite the fact that the Imperium will fall long before it can mount the forces to launch an offensive against the Tau.

So Mr Troll.

I'd say you take your time and start reading the background material. Please.
Almost none of your claims got a foot to stand on.


BoT:


Neither chaos nor tyranids nor orks are meant to be stopped, but Eldar and Humans and Necrons and all these multitudes of other xeno species are not meant to die.
To alter the Tau is beneficial for:

- Humans ? mankind is on its way to greater psychic presence, they need to deal with a realm the Tau don't understand. Tau are as useful as Crons or Orks to them. Maybe Crons are better if they share some tech...
- Eldar ? Eldar are pretty selfish. They failed to educate the younger races, but really really like to use the "uncivilized" as their tools. The Eldar are splintered into so many factions its possible one of them has a plan for Tau.
- Orks ? Green is best. Orks won't care for blue-grey beeings. Not green enough, too pansy, etc.
- Necrons? Crons don't consider anyone their equal, the plan is Order and obedience. Tau and their superiority complex however...Serve the dynasty and feth your greater good. There is a whole Galaxy to be re-conquered.
- Tyranids ? Yes they want the biomass of the Tau, the Tau allies, the whole arm of the Galaxy they live in and so on. Tyranids create more tyranids.
- Chaos? Has its own realm. And lots of fun ruining someones life. Enough playthings for all eternity, don't need Tau.
- Old ones? Maybe. An attempt to be less specialized ( eldar and krork ) , to create a team instead of a unruly bunch of space elfs and space orcs. Not stirring the empyrean up further.

My claim that I haven't trolled Imperial threads is still justified. My claim that Imperial stooges are bitter because Abaddon fethed their asses raw on Cadia is still justified.

Let's just assume, then, that every Imperial-friendly poster here is just pissed because another faction might not be fethed as hard by Chaos as the Imperium was.

I already explained how the Tau could be useful to Eldar, Chaos, and the Old Ones. Rather than making direct responses, you copy-pasted and ignored my points. If you'd like to actually address my theories, you're welcome to do so.

No, people are pissed because you don't understand how technology or industry works. Tau have absolutely nothing to offer to any of the factions save possibly to the Orks by being a new punching bag or the Tyranids as more biomass. The Imperium already has access to better technology via STC's (never-mind that technology from a completely different species would be utterly useless to them) from the DAOT that are leagues beyond those of the Tau, and everyone else is laughably more advanced than the Tau in terms of industry and technology. The problem with you is that along with many other Tau fanboys, think the Tau are some special snowflake that actually are relevent on the galactic scale.... when ultimately they're completely irrelevant due to being logistically outclassed by every other faction in 40k. Tau aren't some important empire- they're just one of the countless xenos mini-empires scattered throughout the milky way with the Tau effectively serving as a mascot for.

People don't care that the Tau haven't been steamrolled by Chaos, and the idea of you thinking such to be true is both hilarious and proves you know absolutely nothing about 40k, making you appear to everyone as some kind of in-joke as you fail to grasp why the Tau have not been steamrolled by other factions. Everyone has bigger fish to fly as guess what! The tau are in-universe completely irrelevant to every other faction! They're the North Korea of 40k. Everone is capable of taking them out with little effort, however for multiple factions doing so would have far reaching consequences, much how in real life what stops the West from rolling right over North Korea and putting Kim Jon to the boot is the potential of it igniting a far greater war.

TL;DR, if their faction wasn't represented at the Thirteenth Black Crusade, they don't matter on the grand scale.

I'm just being annoyed all of the Tau fans here and lauding that their race is IMMUNE TO CHAOS.

NO you are not, IF you were the Ethereals would have told the general populace about them so that they could better fight them,

In regards to technology, I'd say the Imperium does have better tech, however the Tau have more widely available better tech if that makes sense.

For example I'd say Tau Combat armour is better than Flak and Carapace, and Crisis suits are better than power armour (if they can be compared) however I'd say artificer armour is better than any Tau armour that isn't a prototype.

The second story in the Damocles anthology, which is from perspective of a Gue'vesa, tells us how much humans who've allied with the Tau like having access to more advanced armour, weapons, vehicles, clean drinking water. Things the Imperium can't/won't provide.

Yeah, the Tau are insignificant. They have a few dozen planets on the eastern fringe and are lucky the Imperium got distracted during the Damocles crusade and didn't wipe them out.

However apart from the Tyranids they are the only faction which is actually growing in strength. And looking at the rate they've been growing, so long as the imperium doesn't notice them too much, they could be a force to be reckoned with in a reasonably short amount of time.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

Yes they are. I study physics. I have derived that equation from base principles. You are wrong.

That m is the rest mass of a body (as mass is variable with velocity). So that energy is the energy that a body will have when stationary. That is therefore the absolute minimum energy a body can have.

The full equation is technically E^2 = p^2c^4 + (mc^2)^2 but as we're dealing with a body at rest it has no momentum so it can simplify to E=mc^2.

Unless you would like to argue with Einstein?

My bad, usually people don't really know what it means.

But as I said, that equation hides a lot of complexities.
No body is stationary unless measured from another body that does not move, like your shoes vs you as long as they're tied.
Mass is not variable with velocity, mass is the amount of matter in a body and it does not vary. There are constructs called "mass" that do vary with velocity, but that's just bad naming.
And while you could say that for limited speeds you can ignore p, that's definitely a rounding error you choose to take, i.e. not the whole story.

So... back to your premise: Energy and mass are not interchangeable outside of math.

E=mcc may only be true if m and E are both positive.
If you derive it from the other equation, it's |E|=|m|cc, i.e. Energy could be negative, mass could be negative, nobody has any idea and there is nothing directly linking Energy to mass without using squares is there ?

Taffy17 wrote:
In regards to technology, I'd say the Imperium does have better tech, however the Tau have more widely available better tech if that makes sense.

For example I'd say Tau Combat armour is better than Flak and Carapace, and Crisis suits are better than power armour (if they can be compared) however I'd say artificer armour is better than any Tau armour that isn't a prototype.

The second story in the Damocles anthology, which is from perspective of a Gue'vesa, tells us how much humans who've allied with the Tau like having access to more advanced armour, weapons, vehicles, clean drinking water. Things the Imperium can't/won't provide.

Yeah, the Tau are insignificant. They have a few dozen planets on the eastern fringe and are lucky the Imperium got distracted during the Damocles crusade and didn't wipe them out.

However apart from the Tyranids they are the only faction which is actually growing in strength. And looking at the rate they've been growing, so long as the imperium doesn't notice them too much, they could be a force to be reckoned with in a reasonably short amount of time.

The first half is true. However SM are not the only ones who can wear power armor, ordinary humans can as well which already means that it is possible to organize a force wearing it Sister of Battle. So we already know that there is more power armor than Tau in existence, the question becomes one of logistics.

In the same vein we know from some fluff that battlesuits are stronger than power armor for the most part, but they are hard to make, an equivalent to Artificer Armor. Already we see that they are at the very least EQUAL in that one aspect of technology. Then we go to Terminator armor and its even better form Tartaros armor, and the Tau have no equivalent.

Alright just proved Imperium technology is better. Next on the Agenda

Tau expansion, which takes place in waves. Last I checked they aren't expanding so no they aren't really growing.

Is GW planning any advances in the fluff ?

Quickjager wrote:
The first half is true. However SM are not the only ones who can wear power armor, ordinary humans can as well which already means that it is possible to organize a force wearing it Sister of Battle. So we already know that there is more power armor than Tau in existence, the question becomes one of logistics.

In the same vein we know from some fluff that battlesuits are stronger than power armor for the most part, but they are hard to make, an equivalent to Artificer Armor. Already we see that they are at the very least EQUAL in that one aspect of technology. Then we go to Terminator armor and its even better form Tartaros armor, and the Tau have no equivalent.

Alright just proved Imperium technology is better. Next on the Agenda

Tau expansion, which takes place in waves. Last I checked they aren't expanding so no they aren't really growing.

Your right, like I said the pinnacle of imperial technology is better than Tau, however on an empire wide average I'd say the Tau are better. But Tau do have prototype armour which is better than Terminator such as the XV-8-02 Iridium Battlesuit, although it can't teleport.

In regards to expansion, the Tau are in their third phase and roughly double their number of planets with every phase. So they are growing and their probably one of the fastest growing races in the galaxy.

Taffy17 wrote:
In regards to technology, I'd say the Imperium does have better tech, however the Tau have more widely available better tech if that makes sense.
]For example I'd say Tau Combat armour is better than Flak and Carapace, and Crisis suits are better than power armour (if they can be compared) however I'd say artificer armour is better than any Tau armour that isn't a prototype.

Arguably, I would say that Broadsides are better than Artificer armour, for several reasons.

If we assume that the 2+ save in the game represents an absolute of protective capability, the two are equal in terms of energy absorption and ballistic deflection.

Artificer Armour has the advantage of being smaller than a Broadside battle suit.

Broadsides, however, have the advantages of being a better heavy weapons platform - it can carry bigger guns, and it can move freely while firing them. It also has a logistical advantage: Broadsides can be run off a production line, while every suit of Artificer Armour started out as a suit of Power Armour that has been lovingly upgraded and recrafted over centuries by master craftsmen.

While the Tau Empire can't hold a candle to the Imperium in terms of the overall number of troops it can deploy, and its industrial capacity is frankly pathetic, I would say that it's still safe to wager that the Tau can deploy more Broadside Battlesuits than the Imperium can deploy suits of Artificer Armour.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

They aren't blanks, but they can't be possessed, and have such a small pretense in the warp that they are hard to dittect.

Why not?

An Avatar of Khaine was possessed. Swords can be possessed as can vehicles and starships. I don't think there's any reason they can't be possessed.

Taffy17 wrote:However apart from the Tyranids they are the only faction which is actually growing in strength. And looking at the rate they've been growing, so long as the imperium doesn't notice them too much, they could be a force to be reckoned with in a reasonably short amount of time.

Various Necron factions are also growing in strength. Individual dynasties have demonstrated far more rapid expansion in areas with the Astronomicon's light being stronger.

Plus the Tau are constrained by various technological (and biological) weaknesses. Their spaceships are not that great combat-wise if I recall correctly, their faster-than-light capability requires significant upgrading and they have no defence against the Psychic opponents other than "shoot it".

I forgot about Broadsides, guess that would be the Termie equivalent.

Quickjager wrote:
I forgot about Broadsides, guess that would be the Termie equivalent.

Wouldn't they be more vehicle class though? I know they don't count as such on the tabletop but their function, mobility and size seems more akin to vehicles than (power) armour.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

Quickjager wrote:
I forgot about Broadsides, guess that would be the Termie equivalent.

Wouldn't they be more vehicle class though? I know they don't count as such on the tabletop but their function, mobility and size seems more akin to vehicles than (power) armour.

I dunno, what do the Tau consider them as? It's a good question.

This has been a fun read, though some people need to get off the Tau teet and inform themselves on how 40k fluff works and also the past of several races (Necron in particular).

But in the grand scheme of things, according to the designers, the Tau were meant to be representative of one of the thousands of petty or minor alien empires that exist between the stars in the incomprehensibly vast galaxy. They get some additional things to make them interesting, but acting as though they are in anyway a match for any other existing faction isn't supported even in their own book, which is where most races get the fluff candy to pretend they are the bestest and most important thing in the universe.

To answer the OPs question.

Yes the Tau have a greater purpose. To provide viable nourishment to the Hive.

Taffy17 wrote:

While you make some valid points can we speculate on the topic before merely writing off all options?

Tau must have some bargaining chips. They are a race open to negotiations that are highly advance and completely immune to the effects of chaos. I'm sure anyone who is anticipating fighting chaos could have use for them.

If there is another black crusade the Imperium may have to swallow its pride and request their help. or if they don't maybe the Tau are the ones who hold the line against the crusade when they get that far. Maybe this was someone's plan all along?

If you are against any theory anyone proposed please suggest another one related to the topic in order to progress the discussion

Thanks

Didn't write them all off. Just excluded the unlikely ones. Again, am not saying no one of the known established factions is possibly guilty but:

Chaos doesn't create so much, it tends to corrupt existing things.
Necrons are into artificial things, not biological.
Orks accept only greenskins.
Humans had their own biotech and robots and it isn't their MO to create something that isn't loyal; maybe if the tau were all about "for the greater good of the God-Emporer"...but thats not the case.
Tyranids take your biomass and ... make more tyranids.
Only Eldar left, they are manipulative and served the old ones who created them. The combo that may work IMO.

If GW is mean, then more than 1 faction messed with the fate of the Tau.
If GW is clever, they go for (the last? ) Old ones who survived/fled and returned to try again, using their former Eldar minions to influence the Tau they have placed in a nice starting location. This allows for a story where Crons hunt for the Old one behind this, Eldar beeing as tricky as always and Tau as the uninformed kids whose fate is messed with by elder species. A link of the present back far to the past when mankind didn't exist.

As purpose, Tau are the xeno-alliance and an entry to expand on less known parts. They don't have to beat chaos or tyranids or save anyone or control orks or re-program crons. Let them have a mission possible instead of the mission impossible some people have thrown into this thread.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

Taffy17 wrote:
I'll just put in that no one can be totally unbiased. A Tau player like myself is always gonna want their faction to have the potential to make progress and have some influence in the galaxy. I'm sure other factions who don't have much impact on the big picture (from my experience) such as DEldar or Necrons feel the same way.

Necrons have had the concept of awakening to the extent that they'd have a huge impact. The Dark Eldar simply aren't there to do so. They aren't trying to make an impact.

This.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

Tau must have some bargaining chips. They are a race open to negotiations that are highly advance and completely immune to the effects of chaos. I'm sure anyone who is anticipating fighting chaos could have use for them.

There is no reason that I can think of that they would be completely immune to Chaos. Why would they? They are not blanks. They are not immune to being diverted from the path of the Greater Good as seen by the Etherals (evidenced by Farsight). Tau could be tempted into serving Chaos.

If there is another black crusade the Imperium may have to swallow its pride and request their help. or if they don't maybe the Tau are the ones who hold the line against the crusade when they get that far. Maybe this was someone's plan all along?

Any Black Crusade originating from the Eye of Terror that reaches the Tau would have decimated Imperial space. By that point the Tau would still be insignificant because they'd have a barrier of Daemon worlds preventing them from heling remaining (important) Imperial enclaves. If the Black Crusade doesn't reach Tau space then the Tau would be unable to help anyway.

The Tau aren't supposed to be important as it stands in the 41st millennium. Theoretically they could become so. As it is they have less impact on the galaxy than the Dark Eldar by dint of them only being able to affect a tiny proportion of it whereas even the Eldar, a dying race, can intervene in many places in the galaxy.

The Tau are added to 40k in 2001 and not the usual GW way of "it was always there" but as the new guys and to protect them from unwanted attention they are far out in the east. The disadvantage is, its not easy to add Tau to campaigns. Most Playable races got either the mobility to get there or are so widespread you will find them almost everywhere. Not the Tau.
This also reduces the chances of a "greater purpose" cause they are as the Articles in WD in 2001 said : big fish in small pond .
Doesn't limit the importance of them for their playerbase. Love em to death if you want.
Because the good news is, the Tau were created before GW was on its crazy IP path and got the basic myth of unknown influences instead of some whacky fluff to aggrandize their rulers for example.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:
The Ethereals likely were injected by an exterior force in my opinion simply because their introduction makes it illogical for that to not be the case. Who it is is unknown. Xenology points towards the Eldar. However it could have been the Old Ones, Necrons or an hitherto unknown race. I don't think it really matters that much; the Tau will continue what they are doing.

Eldar are still minions of the old ones, a choice more likely than any other here.
Necrons and C'tan don't seem to fond of creating their own minions as biological beeings, but artifical and rather robot like things.