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 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
So, if I was to sum up the whole thing, some people want to speak about social issues in gaming, other want to speak about corruption in gaming, those two subjects are not linked in any way, but some people rejoice in mixing them, so actually nobody understand what anybody is saying anymore. Did I get that right? Because that is the vibe I got when reading tweets with the #gamergate hashtag .

Did I get that right?

No, not at all. Are you being deliberately obtuse? I suggest you go back and read the last 15 pages of discussion detailing how all these issues ARE linked.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
So, if I was to sum up the whole thing, some people want to speak about social issues in gaming, other want to speak about corruption in gaming, those two subjects are not linked in any way, but some people rejoice in mixing them, so actually nobody understand what anybody is saying anymore. Did I get that right? Because that is the vibe I got when reading tweets with the #gamergate hashtag .

Its what gamers are angry about.

and you are wrong, they are connected. Very much connected.

Okay then, apparently I did not get that right. Am I the only one here?
So, is the idea that the “evil SJW of evilness” are somehow corrupting the video game journalists more than the huge international corporations?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Okay then, apparently I did not get that right. Am I the only one here?
So, is the idea that the “evil SJW of evilness” are somehow corrupting the video game journalists more than the huge international corporations?

Straw Man. Don't think anyone has said gaming journalists are MORE corrupt than gaming corporations. And you're going off topic anyway, were discussing gaming journalism not corporations like EA

Y'know what, don't take our word for it. Take the word of someone who knows nothing about video games yet can plainly see what's going on (and she's also pretty funny).

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Okay then, apparently I did not get that right. Am I the only one here?
So, is the idea that the “evil SJW of evilness” are somehow corrupting the video game journalists more than the huge international corporations?

Yes, you seem to be the only one here, and considering that multiple people have explained what the issues are and have linked articles and opinion pieces detailing what the issues are, the fact that you are still claiming ignorance after 15 pages of thread is starting to look like you are just trying to troll at this point...

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
[Don't think anyone has said gaming journalists are MORE corrupt than gaming corporations. And you're going off topic anyway, were discussing gaming journalism not corporations like EA

I do not think you understood what I said. If your problem is with the game journalists being corrupt, it means you think they are altering their reviews in exchange for favor. Now, I am going to ask you: who is likely to have the more incentive, and the more possibilities, to give them favors? Is it huge corporations investing huge piles of money into video games, or the lonely social activists? I am pretty sure it is the big megacorpos. But apparently your idea is that it is social activists that have somehow managed to corrupt video game journalists, if I understand correctly. Which, really, I am not sure of anymore.

So people don't like corruption. Think we can all agree on that

PhantomViper wrote:
and considering that multiple people have explained what the issues are and have linked articles and opinion pieces detailing what the issues are, the fact that you are still claiming ignorance after 15 pages of thread is starting to look like you are just trying to troll at this point...

I would say it shows you are very bad at explaining, but that will likely seem arrogant…
Seriously, it should not be so hard to explain with simple sentences, is it?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:
and considering that multiple people have explained what the issues are and have linked articles and opinion pieces detailing what the issues are, the fact that you are still claiming ignorance after 15 pages of thread is starting to look like you are just trying to troll at this point...

I would say it shows you are very bad at explaining, but that will likely seem arrogant…
Seriously, it should not be so hard to explain with simple sentences, is it?

If you want the issues explained to you, go back and read t g e last 15 pages of discussion that explained the issues.

Considering everyone else has gotten it but you, i'm not sure he's the one who's faulty here -_-

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
If you want the issues explained to you, go back and read t g e last 15 pages of discussion that explained the issues.

I read them already. It is a whole big confused mess.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
If you want the issues explained to you, go back and read t g e last 15 pages of discussion that explained the issues.

I read them already. It is a whole big confused mess.

What are you confused by?


It has been outlined, quite a few times.

I suggest you re-read, research, look into. Think about it.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
[Don't think anyone has said gaming journalists are MORE corrupt than gaming corporations. And you're going off topic anyway, were discussing gaming journalism not corporations like EA

I do not think you understood what I said. If your problem is with the game journalists being corrupt, it means you think they are altering their reviews in exchange for favor. Now, I am going to ask you: who is likely to have the more incentive, and the more possibilities, to give them favors? Is it huge corporations investing huge piles of money into video games, or the lonely social activists? I am pretty sure it is the big megacorpos. But apparently your idea is that it is social activists that have somehow managed to corrupt video game journalists, if I understand correctly. Which, really, I am not sure of anymore.

You're going off topic.

This thread is about corrupt interractions between indie developers (Quinn) and journalists.

Are some big corporations corrupt? Yes.

Do they sometimes use money to manipulate gaming media? Yes.

But that's not what this thread is about. If you want to discuss corporations, start a new thread. Please stop trying to derail this thread.


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 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
If you want the issues explained to you, go back and read t g e last 15 pages of discussion that explained the issues.

I read them already. It is a whole big confused mess.

Thanks in no small part to you...

Okay, see, that is precisely my problem.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
This thread is about corrupt interractions between indie developers (Quinn) and journalists.

So, this thread is about corruption, not about social issues, right? But then we get tons of talk about misogyny and SJW and stuff like that. Those are not linked to corruption. Except when people try to use one to avoid speaking about the other. Or else, explain how. Hence why I said:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
So, if I was to sum up the whole thing, some people want to speak about social issues in gaming, other want to speak about corruption in gaming, those two subjects are not linked in any way, but some people rejoice in mixing them, so actually nobody understand what anybody is saying anymore.

How was that wrong?

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
This thread is about corrupt interractions between indie developers (Quinn) and journalists.

Is that why pages 2-15 keep bringing up someone who is neither a journalist or an indie developer?

Ah, I am apparently not the only one confused.

Now I just think you're trying to get the thread closed.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Okay, see, that is precisely my problem.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
This thread is about corrupt interractions between indie developers (Quinn) and journalists.

So, this thread is about corruption, not about social issues, right? But then we get tons of talk about misogyny and SJW and stuff like that. Those are not linked to corruption. Except when people try to use one to avoid speaking about the other. Or else, explain how. Hence why I said:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
So, if I was to sum up the whole thing, some people want to speak about social issues in gaming, other want to speak about corruption in gaming, those two subjects are not linked in any way, but some people rejoice in mixing them, so actually nobody understand what anybody is saying anymore.

How was that wrong?

Its shared by the journalists, its what is being thrown back as an insult. It is the whole idea that the journalists and game devs have been teaming up and attacking gamers in general. And grouping them into their stupid fantasy that all gamers are white.

Its this whole idea that there is corruption being called out, but all we get is insults thrown back at us.

Its about gamers being tired of being called terrible things because of the minority. Its gamers finally taking a stand and saying. "We are not like that. We are different."

This thread is a combination of the whole issue of Zoe Quinn and what it has caused.

I mean the entire industry is in chaos about this.

This is a major issue. It is the relationship between journalists and the community. This bond that has stood for a very long time.

This all can be traced back to the Mass Effect 3 issue. Where journalists and the community attacked each other and did a similar thing. But this time.

The community has risen up and spoke up and called the journalists out and said that the journalists are biased. They want the journalists to write better, to do something else.

They want the journalists to write not about the specs, but about the games themselves, what the games mean to them, not what the graphics are capable of, What is fun or not. They are tired of this biased ideals.

This whole idea of missing the point of a game.

Giving the same game franchise a perfect score, when it has nothing good to add to the community.

It is this issue that has been boiling for a very long time.

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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Now I just think you're trying to get the thread closed.

My thoughts as well.

Now I just think you cannot explain the relation between that whole misogyny/SJW stuff and the corruption of video game journalists because there is none, and therefore use the pretense that I am trolling not to answer.

It seems the common tactic by SJWs is to try and refocus it back constantly on the sexism, when its more about corruption and agenda pushing by SJWs.

Here's what I know, Ive been playing video games since I was 4 then suddenly when Im 25 ish video games are socially acceptable and suddenly the people called that me a nerd for years are suddenly telling me how I have fun is wrong and sexist. Sorry if we seem hesitant on intentions and give people gak who walk into our house and start telling us what to do.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Its shared by the journalists, its what is being thrown back as an insult. It is the whole idea that the journalists and game devs have been teaming up and attacking gamers in general. And grouping them into their stupid fantasy that all gamers are white.

So, what about that:

So, if I was to sum up the whole thing, some people want to speak about social issues in gaming, other want to speak about corruption in gaming, those two subjects are not linked in any way, but some journalists rejoice in mixing them, so actually nobody understand what anybody is saying anymore.

Is that better for you? I just changed one word. I put journalists instead of people. Seems to be describing exactly what you were talking about. Yet when I said that, you all piled in on how I was wrong and had understood nothing…


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 Mechanical Crow wrote:
Here's what I know, Ive been playing video games since I was 4 then suddenly when Im 25 ish video games are socially acceptable and suddenly the people called that me a nerd for years are suddenly telling me how I have fun is wrong and sexist.

You know many of those people actually play as much games as you do, do you?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Now I just think you cannot explain the relation between that whole misogyny/SJW stuff and the corruption of video game journalists because there is none, and therefore use the pretense that I am trolling not to answer.

One of the links earlier did a good job at explaining the relation between the 2 issues. Basically Quinn's infidelity brought the corruption to light. the game industry is trying to shift the focus to misogyny and SJW stuff to avoid the real issue of addressing the corruption.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Now I just think you cannot explain the relation between that whole misogyny/SJW stuff and the corruption of video game journalists because there is none, and therefore use the pretense that I am trolling not to answer.

I just did.

I just explained it.

it is a reaction from the journalists, to those who are attacking zoe quinn. But then they have grouped up the gamers into it.

And there is signs of it happening. There have been many examples of it.

So, what about that:
So, if I was to sum up the whole thing, some people want to speak about social issues in gaming, other want to speak about corruption in gaming, those two subjects are not linked in any way, but some journalists rejoice in mixing them, so actually nobody understand what anybody is saying anymore.

Is that better for you? I just changed one word. I put journalists instead of people. Seems to be describing exactly what you were talking about. Yet when I said that, you all piled in on how I was wrong and had understood nothing…

I think you are missing the point.

It is a response. Its their defense. This whole sexist argument is coming from the journalists. They are saying that We (The Gamers) are sexist. Because there is a vocal minority who are targeting Zoe Quinn for sleeping with other guys. Which is not the major argument from the community. Its the corruption in games.

And all the industry is thinking is that we are being sexist for Zoe Quinn for sleeping with other people.

For me its the idea behind the game dev sleeping with influential people who could say... Write up a good review on the game. I don't care if you have sex. But if you use it to gain benefits. That is down right corruption of the media.

She could have had sex and work as a stripper, and I would not care. Its just the idea behind the entire thing, the idea that she is using her abilities and stature as a game dev to influence the writing of journalists.

 Asherian Command wrote:
This all can be traced back to the Mass Effect 3 issue. Where journalists and the community attacked each other and did a similar thing. But this time.

The community has risen up and spoke up and called the journalists out and said that the journalists are biased. They want the journalists to write better, to do something else.

They want the journalists to write not about the specs, but about the games themselves, what the games mean to them, not what the graphics are capable of, What is fun or not. They are tired of this biased ideals.

This whole idea of missing the point of a game.

Giving the same game franchise a perfect score, when it has nothing good to add to the community.

Okay, how the hell is that coherent with

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
This thread is about corrupt interractions between indie developers (Quinn) and journalists.

Are some big corporations corrupt? Yes.

Do they sometimes use money to manipulate gaming media? Yes.

But that's not what this thread is about. If you want to discuss corporations, start a new thread. Please stop trying to derail this thread.

On one hand, it is not about corruption of game journalists by big corporation. On the other hand, it is about how game journalists spoke about that game from a big corporation. How the freaking hell am I supposed to understand that? You keep changing what the issue is every time I try to pinpoint it!

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
This all can be traced back to the Mass Effect 3 issue. Where journalists and the community attacked each other and did a similar thing. But this time.

The community has risen up and spoke up and called the journalists out and said that the journalists are biased. They want the journalists to write better, to do something else.

They want the journalists to write not about the specs, but about the games themselves, what the games mean to them, not what the graphics are capable of, What is fun or not. They are tired of this biased ideals.

This whole idea of missing the point of a game.

Giving the same game franchise a perfect score, when it has nothing good to add to the community.

Okay, how the hell is that coherent with

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
This thread is about corrupt interractions between indie developers (Quinn) and journalists.

Are some big corporations corrupt? Yes.

Do they sometimes use money to manipulate gaming media? Yes.

But that's not what this thread is about. If you want to discuss corporations, start a new thread. Please stop trying to derail this thread.

On one hand, it is not about corruption of game journalists by big corporation. On the other hand, it is about how game journalists spoke about that game from a big corporation. How the freaking hell am I supposed to understand that? You keep changing what the issue is every time I try to pinpoint it!

Well its the current thing we are discussing. I don't think Shadow Captain has been in the debate for a long time.

I mean the whole issue is confusing. And almost mind boggling.

Because the whole issue is basically a trip wire to crazy.

And ever since I am insane, I can sort out the crazy into an understanding of what is going.

The ME3 thing is actually a great point! The gaming media hasn't exactly loved gamers for a long time... Hold The Line was the first crack where we started saying "feth you, we're consumers and we'll be heard on products and IP we support and purchase." only to be called whiny, entitled brats. That was the first time "gamer" was used as an insult

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Now I just think you cannot explain the relation between that whole misogyny/SJW stuff and the corruption of video game journalists because there is none, and therefore use the pretense that I am trolling not to answer.

We already HAVE answered. You're ignoring it and persisting with this straw man. Ergo why we think you are trolling.

sirlynchmob wrote:
Basically Quinn's infidelity brought the corruption to light. the game industry is trying to shift the focus to misogyny and SJW stuff to avoid the real issue of addressing the corruption.

So, it is about corruption, but some people (not the game industry, as far as I know no representative of any game company is involved, only journalists) trying to voluntarily confuse the issue by mixing this and social issues while actually those are two separate thing. It is what I just wrote. And everyone told me it was not that.

 Asherian Command wrote:

So, what about that:
So, if I was to sum up the whole thing, some people want to speak about social issues in gaming, other want to speak about corruption in gaming, those two subjects are not linked in any way, but some journalists rejoice in mixing them, so actually nobody understand what anybody is saying anymore.

Is that better for you? I just changed one word. I put journalists instead of people. Seems to be describing exactly what you were talking about. Yet when I said that, you all piled in on how I was wrong and had understood nothing…

I think you are missing the point.

It is a response. Its their defense. This whole sexist argument is coming from the journalists. They are saying that We (The Gamers) are sexist. Because there is a vocal minority who are targeting Zoe Quinn for sleeping with other guys. Which is not the major argument from the community. Its the corruption in games.

Okay, you are saying that I am missing the point just to write the exact damn thing I wrote below as being the real point. Only difference is that you got one more precision about the fact they are are making generalizations about gamers.
You know, really, if you want to bring attention to the corruption, just do not talk about social issues. As long as you keep those separate, as long as there is nothing in your writings that refers in any way to any social issue, the only way to answer you is to talk about corruption. And there, you win, because nobody can defend corruption without looking like an ass. If accusations of sexism is their shield, then just strike them in the back where they cannot use their shield by not making any kind of statement that could be even remotely linked to any social issue.

Oh stop it already. You're just trying to get the thread closed.


Meanwhile...